The Energon Pub

I'm not mad at this at all. I think it's great fans who didn't get a chance at Powered Commander will now get a slightly better version of the add on set.

I do however feel sorry for those that thought they truly had a unique exclusive. Smells like Botcon/Henkei Thundercracker allllll over again.

Blurrz wrote:

omega666 wrote:
If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

How can anyone love an exclusive when it's released to the masses! FansProject makes the exclusive null and void.

That is how you feel about figures? If they are available not to a bunch of people only, they are not worthy anymore in your eyes? FUN, man, FUN! That is what hobbies are about, if you no longer feel the fun about figures, the excitement when you transform a figure, and look only at how much money you can drop the figure on ebay, then the hobby will be void for you! I can even understand MISB and AFA collectors who want to preserve a piece of the past, and they still can be proud of their collections, when they look at them.
I have European exclusives, too, would I be angry when suddenly the HasTak would decide to release the Elite Actionmasters or Overlord en masse for their original retail price? No, I would even buy each of them because they are awesome figures.

Chaoslock wrote:

Blurrz wrote:

omega666 wrote:
If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

How can anyone love an exclusive when it's released to the masses! FansProject makes the exclusive null and void.

That is how you feel about figures? If they are available not to a bunch of people only, they are not worthy anymore in your eyes? FUN, man, FUN! That is what hobbies are about, if you no longer feel the fun about figures, the excitement when you transform a figure, and look only at how much money you can drop the figure on ebay, then the hobby will be void for you! I can even understand MISB and AFA collectors who want to preserve a piece of the past, and they still can be proud of their collections, when they look at them.
I have European exclusives, too, would I be angry when suddenly the HasTak would decide to release the Elite Actionmasters or Overlord en masse for their original retail price? No, I would even buy each of them because they are awesome figures.

This has nothing to do with the playability or the fun of a figure. This has to do with being promised an exclusive, and paying premium for it. If someone wants to get play the FP Commander mold, then there would be other routes other than Powered Commander. I believe the original City Commander still has numbers and Shadow Commander has alot of excess stock.

I'm not mad or anything. The Powered Commander that everyone has from TFCon is the original, there are only 500 of them. Still it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, and it's just the biggest slap in the face FansProject can do. I'm frankly sure I'm never seeing FP do a convention exclusive ever again.

Well, if this is true, that's 500 of core FP customers who will think twice about purchasing product from them in the future.

I produce product in the toy/collectors market and would never pull a stunt like this.

If they were Hasbro/TakaraTomy, I would probably play the faceless corporate card and just accept it because without Hasbro/TakaraTomy making Transformers I wouldn't have a collection, but this is a third party making unofficial product. I can easily drop their product and still have a complete collection of official Transformers, which is what i set out to do.

If this rumour is true of course.

I will say this-I'm not going to be an apologist for FansProject or say that they didn't make a bad judgement call if this is true. However, they are still a young company-hell, before last year, they were barely on the radar yet-and they're bound to make mistakes. This may be a very big one that will put off quite a few fans, that's for sure. I just hope they learn from all this which, in my book, is the most important thing for them going forward.

I'm certainly not going to nail them to the cross. They sound like good guys and fans who have proven that they want to give us good, high quality products for our collections. Apparently, they may have just made a very bad decision.

I don't care I don't like the colourscheame on that toy anyway.

Blurrz wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:

Blurrz wrote:

omega666 wrote:
If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

How can anyone love an exclusive when it's released to the masses! FansProject makes the exclusive null and void.

That is how you feel about figures? If they are available not to a bunch of people only, they are not worthy anymore in your eyes? FUN, man, FUN! That is what hobbies are about, if you no longer feel the fun about figures, the excitement when you transform a figure, and look only at how much money you can drop the figure on ebay, then the hobby will be void for you! I can even understand MISB and AFA collectors who want to preserve a piece of the past, and they still can be proud of their collections, when they look at them.
I have European exclusives, too, would I be angry when suddenly the HasTak would decide to release the Elite Actionmasters or Overlord en masse for their original retail price? No, I would even buy each of them because they are awesome figures.

This has nothing to do with the playability or the fun of a figure. This has to do with being promised an exclusive, and paying premium for it. If someone wants to get play the FP Commander mold, then there would be other routes other than Powered Commander. I believe the original City Commander still has numbers and Shadow Commander has alot of excess stock.

I think the point is this: collectors pay more for a toy than they would ordinarily, if they believe the toy is going to be an exclusive.

But here's the thing - why should the length of the production run alter a toy's value so much, from the perspective of a buyer?

For example, I love my FAB Movie Frenzy. I paid about £7 for it, I reckon I would even have bought it if Hasbro had put the price up to, say, £20.

But the price I'm willing to pay for a toy is based on how much fun I'm going to have with it. I don't care how many other people have got a certain toy - if I like it, I'll buy it.

Look at it this way: I'm not a big fan of the Leo Prime mould. So I have no interest in buying BotCon Razorclaw. I wouldn't buy it if it were on mass retail, I certainly wouldn't buy it for top dollar.

But there seems to be a group of fans who pay their money - not perhaps because they think a toy is good, but because it is labelled "exclusive".

And if that's the main reason you buy a toy (i.e. so that you can own something that not many other people will own), then I think you may have lost sight of what Transformers is all about - kick-ass toys who transform into robots.

£100 for a lump of plastic... I don't care if it's one of only 200 in the world, it's still £100 for a lump of sodding plastic that I can buy in a different colour for a tenth of the price!

Frankly I don't care...I just want to stop seeing new news reports involving City Commander and it's clones...I have City Commander and it's one of my favourite pieces...Shadow Commander was nice too...But seriously...Can we please move on to ANY of the other 10billion projects they supposedly have in line? I would much rather see a headline saying "Rodimus Prime Protector upgrade released soon!" than "Oh look, ANOTHER freaking release of the City Commander set!"

That's just me though...I think Powered Convoy is ugly as hell...

typh0id wrote:Frankly I don't care...I just want to stop seeing new news reports involving City Commander and it's clones...I have City Commander and it's one of my favourite pieces...Shadow Commander was nice too...But seriously...Can we please move on to ANY of the other 10billion projects they supposedly have in line? I would much rather see a headline saying "Rodimus Prime Protector upgrade released soon!" than "Oh look, ANOTHER freaking release of the City Commander set!"

That's just me though...I think Powered Convoy is ugly as hell...

The 500 people who got the TFCon exclusive (including myself) and the 100's maybe 1000's more who are happy to hear the news of a mass release, seriously disagree with you on this one.

And we give the news on the "other 10billion projects they supposedly have in line" as we get it.

Don't know if it should matter, but the fact that it's only like two weeks after the fact kinda makes it reek of a big middle finger to me. Maybe it would be less offensive it were a couple years down the road, people that paid big money had time to enjoy theirs for a decent amount of time...and then make it noticeably different than the exclusive. I don't know, I don't have it nor do I intend to get either version, but I would be pretty pissed had I just paid 300 bucks for it only to find out I could buy 3 for that price in a few weeks. But I'd probably be less upset if it happened down the road a ways and I couldn't still smell the smoke from the money that was apparently burning a hole in my pocket.

starfish wrote:£100 for a lump of plastic... I don't care if it's one of only 200 in the world, it's still £100 for a lump of sodding plastic that I can buy in a different colour for a tenth of the price!

You'd care if you actually wanted the toy, really wanted it.

Don't try and pull this 'different color, same thing' crap, because it is patently untrue in Transformers. Color matters, ask Starscream and for a second opinion ask Thundercracker.

Numbers and colors make all the difference. It's not about the label 'exclusive'...you've got the cart way out ahead of the horse. Well, that and you're confusing an issue.

The confusion is related to collectors defending themselves when they purchase a product that they are told will be 'exclusive'. They buy into a market at a high price because they are specifically told that there will not be a low price market. There would be a fair number of people who would not have spent a lot of money to attend and travel to BotCon 2007 if they knew they could buy the Henkei figures two years later. Now, some may try to speak ill of those collectors and act as if they are somehow wrong for having money and pursuing an interest that costs considerable amounts of money. This is hardly fair because the appropriate (and equally rude response) is to tell those people to get a better job and make more money if they want nice things.

Now the other issue you mentioned is the pursuit of 'exclusives' for the sake of owning rare toys. There are some folks who enjoy this, just like there are art collectors. However, the majority of us pursue exclusives because we know that without early adoption, we pay significantly more on the secondary market for toys we would really like to own. It’s not about owning 'exclusive' toys, it's about ensuring that you don't miss out.

To prove a point, Cybertron Defense Red Alert was at retail for $26.

I could (but won't) offer to sell my BotCon 2006 Pre-Beast Wars Megatron for $260, mind you that is 10x the retail cost, and I would have a full PM box by the end of the day. At $400, it would be the same. $500 (that’s 20x) would probably thin the field and $600+ is the going eBay market rate. If it's just a different color of the same mold (well, in this case there is a new head mold but the example still works) why would so many people be so willing to pay far-far out the ass for this toy?

Counterpunch wrote:

starfish wrote:£100 for a lump of plastic... I don't care if it's one of only 200 in the world, it's still £100 for a lump of sodding plastic that I can buy in a different colour for a tenth of the price!

You'd care if you actually wanted the toy, really wanted it.

Don't try and pull this 'different color, same thing' crap, because it is patently untrue in Transformers. Color matters, ask Starscream and for a second opinion ask Thundercracker.

Numbers and colors make all the difference. It's not about the label 'exclusive'...you've got the cart way out ahead of the horse. Well, that and you're confusing an issue.

The confusion is related to collectors defending themselves when they purchase a product that they are told will be 'exclusive'. They buy into a market at a high price because they are specifically told that there will not be a low price market. There would be a fair number of people who would not have spent a lot of money to attend and travel to BotCon 2007 if they knew they could buy the Henkei figures two years later. Now, some may try to speak ill of those collectors and act as if they are somehow wrong for having money and pursuing an interest that costs considerable amounts of money. This is hardly fair because the appropriate (and equally rude response) is to tell those people to get a better job and make more money if they want nice things.

Now the other issue you mentioned is the pursuit of 'exclusives' for the sake of owning rare toys. There are some folks who enjoy this, just like there are art collectors. However, the majority of us pursue exclusives because we know that without early adoption, we pay significantly more on the secondary market for toys we would really like to own. It’s not about owning 'exclusive' toys, it's about ensuring that you don't miss out.

To prove a point, Cybertron Defense Red Alert was at retail for $26.

I could (but won't) offer to sell my BotCon 2006 Pre-Beast Wars Megatron for $260, mind you that is 10x the retail cost, and I would have a full PM box by the end of the day. At $400, it would be the same. $500 (that’s 20x) would probably thin the field and $600+ is the going eBay market rate. If it's just a different color of the same mold (well, in this case there is a new head mold but the example still works) why would so many people be so willing to pay far-far out the ass for this toy?

Couterpunch... perfectly said. Respectfully said as well, which is no small feat. I can see why you are so respected here.

My hats off to you

Counterpunch wrote:

starfish wrote:£100 for a lump of plastic... I don't care if it's one of only 200 in the world, it's still £100 for a lump of sodding plastic that I can buy in a different colour for a tenth of the price!

You'd care if you actually wanted the toy, really wanted it.

Don't try and pull this 'different color, same thing' crap, because it is patently untrue in Transformers. Color matters, ask Starscream and for a second opinion ask Thundercracker.

Numbers and colors make all the difference. It's not about the label 'exclusive'...you've got the cart way out ahead of the horse. Well, that and you're confusing an issue.

The confusion is related to collectors defending themselves when they purchase a product that they are told will be 'exclusive'. They buy into a market at a high price because they are specifically told that there will not be a low price market. There would be a fair number of people who would not have spent a lot of money to attend and travel to BotCon 2007 if they knew they could buy the Henkei figures two years later. Now, some may try to speak ill of those collectors and act as if they are somehow wrong for having money and pursuing an interest that costs considerable amounts of money. This is hardly fair because the appropriate (and equally rude response) is to tell those people to get a better job and make more money if they want nice things.

Now the other issue you mentioned is the pursuit of 'exclusives' for the sake of owning rare toys. There are some folks who enjoy this, just like there are art collectors. However, the majority of us pursue exclusives because we know that without early adoption, we pay significantly more on the secondary market for toys we would really like to own. It’s not about owning 'exclusive' toys, it's about ensuring that you don't miss out.

To prove a point, Cybertron Defense Red Alert was at retail for $26.

I could (but won't) offer to sell my BotCon 2006 Pre-Beast Wars Megatron for $260, mind you that is 10x the retail cost, and I would have a full PM box by the end of the day. At $400, it would be the same. $500 (that’s 20x) would probably thin the field and $600+ is the going eBay market rate. If it's just a different color of the same mold (well, in this case there is a new head mold but the example still works) why would so many people be so willing to pay far-far out the ass for this toy?

I agree. (So, are you putting your exclusive Megs out there? I'll make an offer.)

Thanks CP. Perfectly delivered. This mirrors my sentiments precisely.

Any updates from Fans Project yet? because I am still furious.

this image was posted on tfw2005's boards:


they didn't even change the colours, they just added some chrome...

24 Hours ago I would have been stoked about a Drift "exclusive". Would be a really cool toy, but now having second thoughts.

Pay a premium to pre-order it online

or

Risk missing out on it entirely and wait for it to get a general release.

or

Having to pay MUCH more on the secondary market in a year's time

This is how it works now I guess

Yeah I don't think anyone is going to trust any 3rd party exclusive after this. I know I wont.

i might get this. looks cool, but i still want the ultra magnus and his armor.

Decepticon_25 wrote:i might get this. looks cool, but i still want the ultra magnus and his armor.

I just got my PC today, and while this sucker is sweet for no reason, you must get the original City Commander set first. That is the original, the tone setter, the pure FTW add on.

GreenLantern of Cybertron wrote:Any updates from Fans Project yet? because I am still furious.

this image was posted on tfw2005's boards:


they didn't even change the colours, they just added some chrome...

Yeah I definately won't be concerned with this. The colors on the real PC already match Henkei Convoy, and it looks like the didn't even adjust the stripes to match Convoy's.

I'd be more interested if FansProjects released a pack of the rocket launchers for CC and SC instead.

Where's my preorder BBTS??? Where???? Those pictures just make me want this more. I can understand where people are coming from being upset about this. It doesn't bother me much. I got the botcon 2007 set and the seekers being released in japan didn't bother me. of course, that wasn't 2 weeks later, but still, it's more the memories that box set has with it than the toys. That Botcon was awesome.

My Powered Commander still says TFCon exclusive on the box so I'm pretty sure it's still an exclusive figure.

Hey guys. I've been following this situation for the past two days. I did some research and found there are some big facts being overlooked, and FP is getting some undeserved hate because people are over looking stuff. I will be using Kapow Toys for most of my facts, as they brought this up, and show the facts.

First off, wide release? Who said that? Not FP. Kapow Toys. They posted the news first on TFW2005, and they didn't get the news from FP themselves. So how reliable is the wide release part? Also, for those that bought their TFCon Powered Convoy at the convention, you should realize, you at least got it cheaper then this "wide release". Kapow's preorder is for £87.99. Convert that to Canadian, and its $139.45 compared to the TFCon price of $150 or so. But Kapow Toys is in Europe, so ship it over here to North America and maybe add customs, and the price is easily higher then TFCon's price.

As for preorders, I've seen several Japanese retailers put them up, but they only ship within japan. The price converted to US is around $155. Find a way to buy it and ship it to North America, and its easily over $200 at the least. Kapow is the only store I found outside of Japan to have a preorder. And since they put the preorder up soon after reporting the news, I'm wondering if they actual secured any from FansProject? Otherwise, if not, this Henkei verison could be a limited version as well, only released in Japan? This makes the TFCon version the one that was cheaper to buy originally. Anyways, just some quick facts about this that I feel are being over looked.

Venksta wrote:...Anyways, just some quick facts about this that I feel are being over looked.

I think you might just have a point - it could be that FansProject are just giving collectors outside of North America a chance to get this kit.

I'm sure we'll hear of an Australian online site having pre-orders soon........

Looks sold out now. Crap, lol. Well, maybe I can trade some of my Botcon figs for it.