The Energon Pub

Siren Prime wrote:
The Transformers I think could have been originally compared to people. People aren't born as fighters, but you enlist in the army and become one.

Well actually Siren is half right. The transformers were created some as workers, as the autobots, which they arent as well armed(animated makes it a point reassert this fact as they all wield more tools than weapons, and have to use brains to topple the better suited for combat decepticons as even one is a handful for them.), or geared for war, but learned to adapt. Decepticons on the other hand are very much created for war. Its why they eventually turn on cybertron cause they re rebels without a cause, and its in their programing to fight,even if its their own people. They could hang out with autobots doing their true function were they was somethnig else for them to turn their agressions on like the quintesons.


I mean I can use a bulldozer to do damage with or for constructive purposes, but a tank will always make a better warmachine than a bulldozer. Thats how the autobots fit into thins with the decepticons. Just luckily for them an engineer can wreck things faster than a brute force can. All about knowing where hit things to dismantle them quickly.

hellkitty wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:The Transformers I think could have been originally compared to people. People aren't born as fighters, but you enlist in the army and become one.

BZZZZZZ. People *are* born as fighters. That is, if you buy into evolution.

Which I don't.
I agree with microevolution though. A.K.A., "adaptation".

But that's all whole different arguement.

hellkitty wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:I'm just saying that they aren't created as weapons. They are a species that where just supposed to live out there day to day lives. Except with the Decepticons. I'm sure many are created with full intent on them being in the war effort.

Sooooo, I'm wrong about war-machines, except about Decepticons? That seems a reasonable compromise to me. We cool?

Yeah, that sounds somewhat about right.

Actually I think we're both right in a way.
Technically they are "war-machines" because they are machines fighting in a war.
But at the same time that can't really be used to describe them because the act of warfare is for many of them not what they are designed for or destined for. But they help because they believe in what one side stands for.

Like what Lastjustice was saying about their alt modes and other functions.
For example, Rachet was a doctor. Starscream was a scientist.

For Starscream (most incarnations of him anyway) warfare and the pursuit of power is his calling and what he wants.
But Ratchet would much rather be at home on Cybertron making life better for Transformers young and old.

hellkitty wrote:

Siren Priem wrote:

hellkitty wrote:Now I'm going to go put the ball gag back in Starscream's mouth. He's talking again.

Darn... one of us must have a clone. He's tied up in my garrage.

I'm older, so mine's probably the original. Unless you're willing to compromise again--can I have the Bay Starscream?

Go for it.
Me wants Armada Starscream anyway. XD

Siren Prime wrote:

hellkitty wrote:Now I'm going to go put the ball gag back in Starscream's mouth. He's talking again.

Darn... one of us must have a clone. He's tied up in my garrage.

I'm older, so mine's probably the original. Unless you're willing to compromise again--can I have the Bay Starscream?[/quote]
Go for it.
Me wants Armada Starscream anyway. XD[/quote]

Yeah, well, I'm easy that way. Armada's a little too emo for me. Besides, Bay's Starscream's kinda ugly. So am I. We...*match*.

AWWWWWWW.

HK, "I know, I'm ugly." Hellboy stole that line from *me*.

hellkitty wrote:Yeah, well, I'm easy that way. Armada's a little too emo for me.

And the other Starscreams were whiny, foot-kissers...
I think antihero Armada Star is the lesser of two evils.

And I don't think Movie Starscream is ugly. I think he's kinda cool.
I could do without the bird-like legs though.

I think antihero Armada Star is the lesser of two evils.

Yeah he seemed be channeling dinobot, why he probably met the same fate.

And I don't think Movie Starscream is ugly. I think he's kinda cool.

Yeah i thought he was cool, though he looks awesome with his G1 color scheme with his toy, or the transformer video game. I understand normal F-22s dont have that sort of paint job, but they probably should haha.

Lastjustice wrote:

I think antihero Armada Star is the lesser of two evils.

Yeah he seemed be channeling dinobot, why he probably met the same fate.

I still haven't seen that episode. I'm sure it'll make me cry though.

I've just recently been delving into the original TF cartoons. I'm enjoying it.
Though some of it can be very cheesy, and I swear one of the TF's is played by the same guy who plays Shaggy off of Scooby Doo.

That last bit is cool though. XD

Lastjustice wrote:

And I don't think Movie Starscream is ugly. I think he's kinda cool.

Yeah i thought he was cool, though he looks awesome with his G1 color scheme with his toy, or the transformer video game. I understand normal F-22s dont have that sort of paint job, but they probably should haha.

True... bright flashy colors on fighter jets in the real world probably wouldn't work well. But it'd be cool. XD

I've just recently been delving into the original TF cartoons. I'm enjoying it.
Though some of it can be very cheesy, and I swear one of the TF's is played by the same guy who plays Shaggy off of Scooby Doo.

Couple of the voice actors were from both shows actually. Frank welker, voice of megatron, and atleast hundred over chaarcters over the years did voice of Fred (which was same voice he used for Iceman in amazing friends.) Casey Kaseem who was voice of shaggy was cliffjumper. And scrappy doo was ratchet.

True... bright flashy colors on fighter jets in the real world probably wouldn't work well. But it'd be cool. XD

Mostly cause be a pain paint or get replacement parts for them if they took battle damage heh. All show planes like blue angels and thunderbirds have cooler paint jobs than their strictly war use ones.

Lastjustice wrote:

I think antihero Armada Star is the lesser of two evils.

Yeah he seemed be channeling dinobot, why he probably met the same fate.

And I don't think Movie Starscream is ugly. I think he's kinda cool.

Yeah i thought he was cool, though he looks awesome with his G1 color scheme with his toy, or the transformer video game. I understand normal F-22s dont have that sort of paint job, but they probably should haha.

Y'all are so shallow. I like him for his *personality*.

Okay, and all the weapons systems don't hurt none either. Rrroowr!

HK, off to talk about war poetry.

Y'all are so shallow. I like him for his *personality*.

I just love jets heh. I remember as a little kid I was upset when I found out starscream was a bad guy when i first learned about transformers. I had a book with pictures of all guys, but I couldnt read that well yet so I didnt know who was what till I saw the show.


I still liked starscream though regardless, as I accepted his faction, and found him interesting anyways. I of course then found Skyfire awesome then as he was a heroic flier, but also a powerhouse heh. Plus his name sounded cool. (I prefer skyfire over jetfire.)

Then of course came the aerial bots, and silverbolt was my guy. He like myself are both the heroic boyscouts, and afraid of heights(ironic for loving idea of flight so much right heh). He imediately became one of my favorites. Superion also my favorite combiner team.


So fliers usually get bonus in my book, as just something cool about em.(like Ace McCloud was my favorite centurion who voiced Springer in G1) Even Tracks probably got my biase for same reason despite being a car, he had a jet mode. I still have favorites who didnt like Sideswipe (though he did have a jet pack lol.) Prowl, Ironhide and Prime.

But been a life line obession as I went on to work on F-16s after high school for air force.Off we go into wild blue yonder..flying high into sun...(continues to hum the air force song.)

Lastjustice wrote: But been a life line obession as I went on to work on F-16s after high school for air force.Off we go into wild blue yonder..flying high into sun...(continues to hum the air force song.)

(Envy) The Air Force didn't want me; apparently one has to be one skinny bee-yotch to fit into those tight blue skirts. The Army, not so picky. So while you were working on jets (gnashing of teeth in jealousy) and eating edible food (like milk that wasn't soured clots), I was running through woods being forced to say dumb things like 'blood makes the grass green, drill sergeant'.

Okay, I never actually managed to say such things. Not without laughing. Hence I got *really* good at doing pushups.

Closest I got to a jet was a C-130.

HK, jet-envying pushup queen.

Lastjustice wrote:

I've just recently been delving into the original TF cartoons. I'm enjoying it.
Though some of it can be very cheesy, and I swear one of the TF's is played by the same guy who plays Shaggy off of Scooby Doo.

Couple of the voice actors were from both shows actually. Frank welker, voice of megatron, and atleast hundred over chaarcters over the years did voice of Fred (which was same voice he used for Iceman in amazing friends.) Casey Kaseem who was voice of shaggy was cliffjumper. And scrappy doo was ratchet.

Casey Kaseem!! That's his name!!
Thanks I was drawing a blank there for a momment.

I love Casey. I used to listen to his radio show.
I think he did the Top 40 for a while.

That is so cool. I love old cartoons so much. Hearing those classic voices is nostalgia.

hellkitty wrote:Y'all are so shallow. I like him for his *personality*.

I just said I thought he looked cool.

And anyway, WHAT personality? He was only in the movie for like 30 seconds total. Not a shread of character developement.
We'll really get to see him in action in the new film. YEEEEE!! XD

Casey Kaseem!! That's his name!!
Thanks I was drawing a blank there for a momment.

You can always hit up

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page for transformer related stuff

http://www.imdb.com/ For actors , live action or voice over ones alike.

That is so cool. I love old cartoons so much. Hearing those classic voices is nostalgia.

Yeah he was in quite a few other cartoons, like Josey and pussycats. Was funny when they had a cross over with scooby doo, cause he was voicing both chaarcters at same time then.

He was only in the movie for like 30 seconds total. Not a shread of character developement.

Luckily the bot time should be much much higher this time around.

The Air Force didn't want me; apparently one has to be one skinny bee-yotch to fit into those tight blue skirts.

Yeha they got high standards, as I watched alot of good people get the axe even into basic training. As for fitting into clothes, I didnt fit into mine either. Im 5'4" and got short legs, I ended up wearing girls BDUs , but luckily no one could tell unless they saw the label. They dont make them normally that short for guys.

So while you were working on jets

Intially its crazy working on them, you re like a lil kid. You rush in and play with all controls in the cockpit and are just blown away by them. By 10 th week you re like oh its a jet heh. I still marvel at the sheer destructive force of an A-10 as their gatling gun on the front of the thing was like 10 feet long, as its so powerful it slows plane down when it fires. If it continues to fire for too long it can actually cause the engines to stall out. I just think man scorpnok was one bad lil bot to withstood that much of an onslaught and returned for a sequel heh. (plus C-130s which their howhitzer shells are like a foot and half long.)

eating edible food

During basic training I didnt get eat much of it.(between all running and lack of junk food I dropped any extra fat on my body rapidly, i weighted like 126 back then at 17) My drill sergent was this evil woman who would punish us during chow and say, "oh Im not hungry to us, now drink your 3 liquids and get out." She regularly yelled at me, which I was a nervous wreck by time she was done with me. I eventually got canned put into another flight. I had repeat 2 weeks of basic training, but was worth it not deal with her. I just wish Id got graduate with my flight since they were my guys.

Otherwise the food was usually good, but Im a picky eater. Though where I got hooked on Chef boyardee raverolli.

Okay, I never actually managed to say such things. Not without laughing. Hence I got *really* good at doing pushups.

I just got yelled at alot in general. I as so much shorter bulk of the guys I was with, and younger since I went right out of HS. They'd be like your parents know you re here? We need issue you diapers?

Was an interesting experience but Id never go back unless I got drafted. Once was enough as I decided at some point I didnt need a uniform or rank to do right by the world.

My GF (Id say Ex but not sure where hell we stand atm heh) was in the army, but her career was short and uneventful. They gave ehr a hard time too, as she got called big bird and stuff, from what she said, you guys had run alot further than we did heh. (I remember everyone in the army out ran us, even the girls in army passing us in the PC runs in tech school.) Her knee blew out in basic so she got sent home. But she still gets all medical benefits atleast for trying. Its rough make it in armed forces regardless who you are.

I'd never survive any of the armed forces. I'm a wuss.

I would want to do Air Force, but you have to be fit.

Even if I got in shape, I wouldn't be able to fly because I'll never have perfect vision (even with my glasses) and I beileve there's something about you can't have been exposed to certain medicines...

Or maybe that last one is just for the space program.

I'd never survive any of the armed forces. I'm a wuss.

You want it bad enough you can make your body do anything heh. I joined up and wanted be in the special forces actually, I was training hard before I left. ( was 17 and thought I was invincible heh.) Be surprised what you can do it you try.(and have something driving you, like someone asks me do something and I say I will, i dont stop till I get it done.)

Not say you should join armed forces, but seeing if you can push yourself is a good test.Not reason Siren cant be Prime hehe.(just dont take matrix of leadership, hears touch playing) I tend whip myself into shape every so often I like stay with in war fighting condition. I think I am need doing so again.

Even if I got in shape, I wouldn't be able to fly because I'll never have perfect vision (even with my glasses) and I beileve there's something about you can't have been exposed to certain medicines...

Yeah thats something you cant skate around with the vision. i got same issue as Im -5.25 in both eyes. They talked about allowing laser surgery but hasnt been altered yet to ebst of my knowledge since laser surgery has vastly improved in recent years. But if you truly wanna fly, go do as a civilie and make more money doing it heh.

Or maybe that last one is just for the space program.

Beats me there, dont know about that one.

Lastjustice wrote:

I'd never survive any of the armed forces. I'm a wuss.

You want it bad enough you can make your body do anything heh.

Ah, so true. I remember when I decided I wanted to enlist (whoa, looong story) I could barely do ten pushups. However, everything in the APFT works the same way: if you practice at it, you *WILL* get better at it. The only downside is all those stupid sit ups? Don't do a damn thing for your abs. The way the Army makes you do 'em you're just working the iliopsoas (hip muscles).

Just don't be one of those sad sad people who shows up at BCT without being able to do any pushups at all. I hear Fitness Battalions are just depressing.

I joined up and wanted be in the special forces actually, I was training hard before I left. ( was 17 and thought I was invincible heh.)

Yeah, well, at least you had a shot. I was genetically disqualified (bein' a female of the opposite sex and such). SF guys are pretty nice; they're a little less demented than Rangers (who are masochists), but you will never love an SF guy as much as he already loves himself. (Two of my bestest friends are SF, and I tell them this sorta crap to their face. And they laugh. And then agree.)

Yeah thats something you cant skate around with the vision. i got same issue as Im -5.25 in both eyes. They talked about allowing laser surgery but hasnt been altered yet to ebst of my knowledge since laser surgery has vastly improved in recent years. But if you truly wanna fly, go do as a civilie and make more money doing it heh.

Heh. Got you beat on vision, too. Flying was never an option for me. No matter: I look like crap in a flightsuit anyways. (Yeah, I'm a girl, so it's all about *fashion*. And *accessories*. And let's face it: MI has the *best* accessories!)

They're starting to let laser surgery guys into SF and Delta now, so I suspect it's only a matter of time before they loosen up on pilots.

As for the GF with disability pay: just wait. VA did that to me too. I'm technically 70% disabled (hey, that 10% for all visible scars starts to add up!). The VA pulled a little address switch right before a mandatory evaluation appointment so I never got notified. THey cut off my benefits. I've been fighting with them ever since. To no avail.

However, they have decided I have PTSD. Sweet.

HK, who teaches your younglings.

Holy crap! I just noticed how many posts this got! I posted this after the first movie! Jeez!:-)

I for one... especially after seeing the new trailer a few million times... love the RC bikes at this point. Yes... the female concept too. Wonder if females autobots will have "Allspark" type qualities??? Hmmmm?

Whether all the bikes merge into RC, or one of them is RC,... I like it! RC Rocks! See was pretty prevalent in the originals.

It just seems like this movie is shaping up perfectly.

Tons of new robots... and all the good ones. Jetfire, Ravage, Soundwave, Sideswipe, Star Scream's Jet buddies, and of course THE CONSTRUCTICONS! Oh my god... I just came a little!

And who said these movies aren't G1 based! Oh my god they so... are!!! I LOVE IT!

And I love that they've done the opposite of that Punk Ass George Lucas and not only listen to fans but it's almost like the fans own this movie. Can't wait to see Prime and Jetfire Merge!

Bay! I love you!

WHOOHOO!! I with you buddy!!
RC FTW!! XD

I'm kind of annoyed at the premise of three seperate robotic entities combining together to make her, but I haven't heard that from an offical source.

Regardless, this movie is going to be a BLAST!!

Siren Prime wrote:I'm kind of annoyed at the premise of three seperate robotic entities combining together to make her, but I haven't heard that from an offical source.

Actually, it would be kinda neat from a theory standpoint if she did combine from three other robots. In fact, it would be an entirely new *chapter* in my frickin' monograph.

HK, being reminded right now why she sometimes HATES selling on half.com.

hellkitty wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:I'm kind of annoyed at the premise of three seperate robotic entities combining together to make her, but I haven't heard that from an offical source.

Actually, it would be kinda neat from a theory standpoint if she did combine from three other robots. In fact, it would be an entirely new *chapter* in my frickin' monograph.

Not sure what you mean...

Siren,

Well, long story short: because of my job, every few years I have to spawn off some sorta publishable thingummy for promotion purposes. It involves sounding ridonkulously pretentious, and words like 'epistemological' and 'hermeneutics'. Last time, I wrote about masculinity in a really obscure Old French poem. This cycle, to show like professional development and expansion and such, I'm going Pop Culture. What better thing to do than combine my Transformers obsession with my job, and get a promotion out of it?

Without bogging you down in about 700 pages of theory, let's just say that feminist theorists (Kristeva, Butler, de Lauretis and a whole bunch of other people you can go your entire life without knowing about with no ill effects) have decreed that gender is not innate with the body (you see from my posts here I kinda buy into that part). Rather, gender is *performed*. So, a guy can be told to 'act like' or 'take it like' a man--that 'like' word means he's not innately man enough--if he needs to be told to act *like* a man, he's apparently not already doing that. Masculinity becomes what a society or culture decrees is masculine (the fancy schmancy word for this is 'hegemonic discourse'); femininity becomes whatever a culture decides is female (which is normally defined as 'whatever's not male'.) So, American culture has decided, for example, that femininity involves submission/passivity, not very bright or authoritative, giggly, and it must spend its entire life in pursuit of a) beauty and b) men. Don't buy that? Okay, easier one: why do you shave your legs? Because our culture has decreed that American women to be *feminine*, have to do that. You perform that action to be marked as 'feminine'.

So, gender is not tied to body but can be performed. Female gender is stuck with whatever male gender is not: men rational/female emotional. (Yeah, in real life I don't buy this either, but you gotta admit it's the going stereotype). Men aggressive/women passive. Etc, etc.

Okay, onto Arcee: add to this that women in our culture (I'm compressing another coupla hundred pages of theory here) *get* their gender through mirrors--other people tell them who/what they are. Before you disagree..! Think of some of your female friends. How many of them when they start going with a guy, suddenly change? It's like a personality transplant sometimes, isn't it? Even if it's not so obvious, she still might feel some pressure to pick up interests and hobbies she didn't have before, like football. I can't tell you the number of times I see girls very much against their will in the comic shop I frequent. It's clearly their boyfriend's hobby. But it almost never goes two ways. Don't believe that one? Try taking a guy into a girly place like Victoria's Secret, or better yet, a yarn shop. Watch the discomfort. He's *gotta* get out of there! (Why? Does he fear his penis is gonna fall off in all that yarn?)

So, if we buy this idea that women are *given* their identities to perform--from TV, from their parents, from their peers (boys, too, but to a much lesser extent)--then a multiple-bot Arcee can be seen as bringing those various parts together. Tidy. Men, or in this case, 'male' Cybertronians, are seen as having a greater control of their own subjectivity, and thus aren't reducible into parts. If I go further into this I'm gonna start quoting the Bible and Luce Irigaray, so I'll stop. Just think: the origin of Eve? Adam's rib? Run with it.

Another way to look at Arcee as a multiple bot is that women in our culture again (and this is the culture Bay is speaking to, after all) often dismember ourselves. We talk about 'my butt is too big' or 'I hate my thighs' or a host of other ways that we don't talk about ourselves as entirely whole beings. We're taught that we are our bodies (in that if you don't have a hot one, you have no social life/value/worth), but also, contradictorily, that we are NOT our bodies--our bodies are this separate THING that we have to constantly monitor and control--starve it, work it out, dress it up, worry about water retention--all for aesthetic purposes). Advertisers show us ourselves this way too. (More on this in Jean Kilbourne's Killing Us Softly, which I think you can find on YouTube if you've got a half-hour to kill).

Sorry to be so long winded, but, you asked! Haven't decided which way I'll go with it, since it's still just conjecture at this point and I'm still hacking through the 2007 movie. Whooooole section on Starscream. (Yeah, two lines and a *blink* and I write 15 pages on him. Lust. Sad, isn't it?)

And now, Siren Prime will run in terror from cyborg theory. Probably a good thing.

HK, still in the slag-draft stage.

Oi vey...
Big wall o' text... @_@

Gah... man... *shakes head to get brains back into place*

Wow, since that whole thing was rather hard to follow, I'm going to break it into small piece's and only target the ones that interest me. Some of it may be out of order because I'm doing it as it comes to mind.

MY TURN FOR A BIG POST!! XD

Firstly, about shaving, I don't do it for anyone but myself.
1) I like having smooth legs.
2) I think hairy legs (and armpits) on both genders is kinda nasty.

But that's my personally preference. And I'll agree with you in the fact that men CAN get away with it. Unless they're in the world of fashion. Can you say metrosexual?
And btw that's not really a bad thing. Nothing wrong with a guy wanting to have nicely styled, clean hair and wear nice clothes and be clean shaven (heck even everywhere if they want that).
And the last one is a requirement for professional swimmers. XD

But there are some guys (like at my highschool) where I'm like thinking to myself, yuck dude, you need to go wax yourself.

hellkitty wrote:So, American culture has decided, for example, that femininity involves submission/passivity, not very bright or authoritative, giggly, and it must spend its entire life in pursuit of a) beauty and b) men.

Don't know where you got that load of crock. That may have been true at some point, but certainly not now.

I do know girls like that (though I meet very view that would fit the description of "submissive"), but the idea of strong, independent, intelligent women is extremely prominant in current American society.

I'm sure there are people that still believe that way. I'm certin there always will be. But they sure as heck won't openly admit it. Not where I come from.
They'd be chewed to peices for being a chauvanistic sexist.

The only thing that I find true about the quote from you would be the pursuit of beauty.
You gotta be strong, smart, and independent. But you also have to be "hot". I've found that to be the worldwide ideal.
I'm smart. I'm talented. I'm imaginative. I'm am VERY strong-willed. And with all of those things, I'm pretty awesome.

But I'm not sexy. And sadly in modern culture, that can be pretty damning. Especially for younger people.

And about the women=emotion thing, what's wrong with that? I think in very logical and practical terms.
But I also find pride in being able to connect with the emotional side of the human brain. I think expressing feelings is very important. Some my call it gooey or sappy, but I think it's crucial.

You know, I've heard that some men can't get the concept of "a good cry". And I understand why. Crying is extremely emotional and if you aren't sad why would you do it?
But I openly admit to doing it myself. I mean, heck, sometimes you just need to let it out.
And tada!! You feel a lot better.

And about the boyfriend thing, I honestly wouldn't know. Most of my female friends aren't active daters.
And my two friends who do have serious boyfriends haven't changed personality wise at all. They act exactly the same way they have for the 5-7 years I've known them.
The only big difference was that for one of them, she went totally gaga for him and wouldn't quit talking about him. And she kept telling the same stories about him over and over again that she had already told us before. But that only lasted the first few months. Now that's it's just life as usual for her, she's back to normal.

Plus another thing is that me and all me gal pals are all into "guy stuff". That gaga friend I just mentioned, loves football. Another loves guitars. And I'm the cartoon/video game/comic book buff.

But I'm not really sure why you see it as a bad thing for girls to give in to doing what their boyfriends what to do or visa versa.
Ever consider that it is just simply polite to do what THEY want to do every now and again?

If I had a boyfriend who liked sports and really wanted to bring me along, I'd go. I don't really like sports, but it's nice to let them get their way sometimes.
Of course though in any relationship I have, they'd better return the favor.

Or just compromise.
I don't like sports, but I LOVE monster trucks. I'd go to a monster truck rally in a heartbeat.

But what you were saying about boys simply having their "own subjectivity"? Not having to be influenced.
I've actaully heard the opposite.

Biblically the first woman came from the flesh and bone of a man, but all men since then come from women. I've read that in psychology, men subconciously have to try to hold their masculinity.
A girl is just a girl. She's a woman from the body of another woman.
But a boy comes from the body of a woman as well. And in the way I read it, they have to try to earn their way into the circle of manhood.
But that's just one theory.

hellkitty wrote:And now, Siren Prime will run in terror from cyborg theory. Probably a good thing.

What?

Heh well alot being said here. I m not going run down the whole thing but a few quick points as much as I love a good rant.

Try taking a guy into a girly place like Victoria's Secret, or better yet, a yarn shop. Watch the discomfort. He's *gotta* get out of there!

I dont know about that. Im very secure with my manhood that I wouldnt be phase if I went there as I have before.(Heck I played the quest on a cruise.. if you know what that is heh.) Ive watched some chick flicks which some werent that bad.(not that id go out of my way watch em again.) I didnt suddenly stop being a man cause of it.

In general I dont give a rip what people think of me most the time. If they re not dating me , friends/family or paying me, what difference does it make what they think? Why give power to people who dont deserve influence you in first place?

Im sure theres guy out there that get their hardware in a bunch over that, but not the standard by anymeans.

And the last one is a requirement for professional swimmers

I didnt shave everything when I was on swim team, but I was never so uber that it mattered to. I swam for fun and did alright. If I was naturally hairless on rest of my body besides my head Id be fine with it, but I dont care shave it as would only come back worse. Having shave my face is enough grooming for me.

I'm smart. I'm talented. I'm imaginative. I'm am VERY strong-willed. And with all of those things, I'm pretty awesome.

Those are good things be. One most amazing women I ever met, and fell for hard was amount those, and bunch of other traits. If even half the women on planet were like her women would truly rule the world for sure. (who say they dont already haha.) Good Looks are nice, but the entire package was what blew me away.

Theres actually women out there who despite their appearance decide they have more to offer the world, dont choose market themselves that way. While Im sure theres shallow people who live up too all you said HK, but you are master of your own destiny regardless of your gender.

But I'm not sexy.

Both you and HK are bit hard on your own appearances heh. May be you re being honest you re not model material, but most women are sexy in their own way. Even if you arent a knock out, theres always a guy out there will be interested in you.

Despite not being Brad Pitt I know more than enough women over years wanted a piece of me. I just was usually too big of a noob to realize it hehe. (not that I have it all figured out now.) Never underestimate the market till you ve really tried or atleast figured out your niche.

And about the women=emotion thing, what's wrong with that?

Despite being a male, Im fairly in touch with my emotions, mostly cause they almost drove me nuts when I was younger and filled with rage. I suppose I could be called a emotional wussbag for it(likely not to my face heh.) but Im not afraid admit what Ive done in most cases. I d rather cry if somethig upsets me(like few months ago when one of my childhood friends died I did then.) enough to do so, that carry around tons of baggage like i did again.

If keeping in emotions till you go off the deep end is being a man, then I dont have any desire be part of it. Though I have met some women who dont ever cry either, as they just saw as a sign of weakness so they avoid doing so. While I dont think people should be like the one wish in bedazzled where he cried at the sight of the sun set and just about everything else, theres a balance to it all. Finding it is path ultimately being a happier and well adjusted person whatever it may be for you.

don't like sports, but I LOVE monster trucks. I'd go to a monster truck rally in a heartbeat.

I dont like sports all that much myself. I follow my home teams, and go to occasional games with friends, but Id rather play a video game or some geekier subject than dwell on sports.

Monster trucks, I went to a rally when I was a kid. Boy are they loud in person.

Just think: the origin of Eve? Adam's rib? Run with it.

Well from a genetic stand point, women are the dominate gene, and men are the recessive. So read what you want into anything heh.

Never mind.

I'd written long and involved responses to both Siren Prime and Last Justice. But I realized a few things. First, no one else cares so why waste the proverbial bandwidth. Hell, even *I* don't really care. I don't normally work on female in gender to begin with: I write about masculinity.

Two, I have better things to do, myself. I teach this stuff for a living, meaning, gender theory is one of the things people pay me money to educate them about. I'm giving it away for free. Stupid use of my time.

Third, Obviously, I'm so like totally wrong and stuff. Obviously. I mean, Siren Prime, who, if she'd been born 150 years ago, when nobody shaved anything, or in Europe, ditto; well, of course she'd've shaved her legs back then too. I mean, she didn't get the *idea* from anywhere or anything. Much less the razor. And Lastjustice, who insists that guys are just as emotional as girls, and doesn't care what anyone thinks of him, but would stomp anyone who called him a wussbag to his face.... How can I possibly argue with such overweening irony, I mean, rightness.

When I teach this stuff, I always give a disclaimer that goes something like this (cut and paste from one of my syllabi): "This is what experts WAAAAAY smarter than me, and WAAAAY smarter than you, who have devoted their entire life and brainpower into studying the subject have come up with. This is their observation of reality, and moreover, their attempt to explain how that reality came to be. You do not have to agree with their theories: this is not a course in brainwashing. But you are not allowed, in this class, to ignore the realities upon which they base those facts. In other words, if you disagree, you must find some alternate, better explanation that explains what they objectively put before you, or you must prove that they somehow are not discussing mainstream reality. (So, if you watch Sut Jhally's Dreamworlds 3, you may not agree with his explanation, but you'd better come up with another reason why those guys are throwing cold cuts at that girl's naked booty than sexism. If you disagree with Kilbourne's arguments on advertising, either bring in ads that prove the other point, or explain the ads she shows in another way."

So y'all just go right on believing that the world is an entirely sexism-free absolutely equitable place where anybody can be anything they want. And unicorns pee lemonade for everyone and rainbows shine from the eyes of children singing happy songs and no child is ever molested or no one's beaten because they're a different skin color or abused because they're female. What a lovely world. Maybe one day Siren and LJ will give me a ticket to this magical place?

I'm out of this topic: Siren, I'm sorry you asked, and even sorrier I tried to answer you. I put theory out there and for some reason both of you took it as me preaching. IT's what the EXPERTS think: you want to be refuting Julia Kristeva, Barbara Haraway, Claudia Springer, David Savran, Klaus Theweleit, etc, not me.

HK: Ignorance is bliss. Not blissful.

Hellkitty, I found that long post to be fascinating.
I did kind of know that there was a 'way' that males and females are supposed to 'act,' but I didn't know it had a name.

What is fascinating is that from the limited amount I have read about it in various sources, is that what is 'masculine' can in several generations become 'feminine.'
Pink used to be a masculine color, and blue a feminine color in olden times. Pink because it was associated with red, which was the color of blood and war. Blue because it was associated with the Virgin Mary, who females were supposed to emulate. But over time those got switched, and blue is for boys, and pink for girls.

There are other things too, but I can't really think of them right now as my brain's kind of fried. But it is a fascinating subject to be sure, and not one many people seem to think about.