The Energon Pub

by **Malikon** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:32 pm

I know they're Skywarp colors, but I'd love to see her in black and purple, with some gold parts. That'd be cool, and not pink, lol.

by **Siren Prime** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:13 am

Hey did anyone actually see or hear Arcee's voice actor.
I found part of an interview with her on Youtube.

Here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiV_KuyK-4
The sound is kind of low.

She's got a bit of a lisp. I think it's kinda cute. And I can only imagine what it would sound like when they remaster it to make it more mechanical.

by **Malikon** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:10 pm

sounds like she has dentures or some kind of plate on the roof of her mouth.

cool find though.

by **Siren Prime** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:32 pm

Thanks.
Yeah, I thought she had a really cute voice.

by **darkqueen01** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:37 am

Malikon wrote:I know they're Skywarp colors, but I'd love to see her in black and purple, with some gold parts. That'd be cool, and not pink, lol.

That would be gorgeous!!!! I'd like to see her bike mode with these colors. Heck, if I was any good with pic manipulation I would mess around with it myself.

Speaking of the vid.... if you could pick a voice actor/actress for Arcee, who would you pick? I was thinking Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, whom many would probably recognize as the voice behind the character Major Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. I think she has a commanding voice that could do an Arcee voice properly.

Any other suggestions?

by **schizophrenica** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:39 am

darkqueen01 wrote:
Dark Zarak wrote:
darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Actually, I would argue this point. You identify them as males because you are still trying to compare them to humans, which in this case doesn't work because we have two separate concepts: a species with two genders vs. a species with no distinct gender.

I get that this is a hard idea to grasp so allow me to try and break it down a bit. Let me stress that these are just my random ideas and not necessary any sort of truth about transformers lore.

A-hem.

In our world, gender is reflected in EVERYTHING because [almost] all biological species on this planet have two genders: humans, animals, even plants. These distinctions are reflected in our culture and, most importantly, in our language.

For us, since there is a BIG NEED to differentiate between males and females we try to identify everything as being male and female. In english: he/she, him/her. This is also seen in other languages, such as spanish: chico/chica, nino/nina.

We even do this with people that have both male and female reproductive organs. In once sense they are a genderless being at birth, at which point you would call on a DNA test to prove genetically if that baby is male or female. Then again you get men who think they are women and vice versa. (That quite frankly is an issue I wish to avoid at this point. This is complicated enough.) In any even you have people that are choosing to be either male or female because that is how our culture operates. You must be one or the other in some shape or form.

With transformers there is no such thing because you need one group to counter another group. With Transformers, if you accept this idea, there is one group, which is a genderless group. As humans we have no concept of this and nothing to go by. Instead we try to make comparisons so that we can understand a concept that we don't understand. (Example: The eye is like the lens of a camera)

With transformers, since our language reflects that we have no concept of a one gender/lack of gender species, we then attempt to make comparisons. We want to label these characters as male characters because we are comparing them to our own culture. Basically, what most people do is think: This transformer has a deep voice and is very strong, he must be a guy.

However, with transformers, if you buy the one gender idea, they do not distinguish themselves into two gender because they don't have two genders. Hell, there isn't even one gender! To them, they are all just cybertronians. More to the point, there is NO WORD for it in their language because,again, in their culture they would have no concept of this idea. Since they would not differentiate themselves as being male or female then their language would also represent this.

In other words, in the cybertronian language they would not say "He said this," or "She did that." They might just use their names: "Arcee said this" or "Bonecrusher did that". Or maybe they would replace he and she with what we would consider to be gender neutral terms. It would be like how we humans called a group of guys and girls just "guys" because, with most human languages, we tend to make everything masculine because that goes back into history where women were seen as inferior to men, etc, etc.

All I am trying to say is that there can be no A group if a B group isn't present. They would all just be C, because there is no way to distinguish them.

That's all I got. I HAVE to get to bed now. I look forward to more posts or even flammers, tho I will probably just talk them down to nothingness, as is my way of things.

And besides, IT'S JUST A CARTOON!! *L*

You make a good point there, but in the G1 cartoons Arcee, Elita One and the rest were indeed called female autobots. In "the search for alpha trion" both the autobots and decepticons had believed that female autobots were exctint, which means that there were indeed gender differences for the transformers. I suppose you could say that these female autobots are maybe a different genus or subspecies of transformers but I don't thinks that's likely.
I also remember in one episode where the aerialbots travelled back in time they met Elita One and Orion Pax, where Orion told the aerialbots that "Lay off her she's mine" or something like that.
Even in Energon when Arcee/Ariel first appeared she was referred to as a female soldier autobot.

by **Siren Prime** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:13 pm

schizophrenica wrote:
darkqueen01 wrote:
Dark Zarak wrote:
darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Actually, I would argue this point. You identify them as males because you are still trying to compare them to humans, which in this case doesn't work because we have two separate concepts: a species with two genders vs. a species with no distinct gender.

I get that this is a hard idea to grasp so allow me to try and break it down a bit. Let me stress that these are just my random ideas and not necessary any sort of truth about transformers lore.

A-hem.

In our world, gender is reflected in EVERYTHING because [almost] all biological species on this planet have two genders: humans, animals, even plants. These distinctions are reflected in our culture and, most importantly, in our language.

For us, since there is a BIG NEED to differentiate between males and females we try to identify everything as being male and female. In english: he/she, him/her. This is also seen in other languages, such as spanish: chico/chica, nino/nina.

We even do this with people that have both male and female reproductive organs. In once sense they are a genderless being at birth, at which point you would call on a DNA test to prove genetically if that baby is male or female. Then again you get men who think they are women and vice versa. (That quite frankly is an issue I wish to avoid at this point. This is complicated enough.) In any even you have people that are choosing to be either male or female because that is how our culture operates. You must be one or the other in some shape or form.

With transformers there is no such thing because you need one group to counter another group. With Transformers, if you accept this idea, there is one group, which is a genderless group. As humans we have no concept of this and nothing to go by. Instead we try to make comparisons so that we can understand a concept that we don't understand. (Example: The eye is like the lens of a camera)

With transformers, since our language reflects that we have no concept of a one gender/lack of gender species, we then attempt to make comparisons. We want to label these characters as male characters because we are comparing them to our own culture. Basically, what most people do is think: This transformer has a deep voice and is very strong, he must be a guy.

However, with transformers, if you buy the one gender idea, they do not distinguish themselves into two gender because they don't have two genders. Hell, there isn't even one gender! To them, they are all just cybertronians. More to the point, there is NO WORD for it in their language because,again, in their culture they would have no concept of this idea. Since they would not differentiate themselves as being male or female then their language would also represent this.

In other words, in the cybertronian language they would not say "He said this," or "She did that." They might just use their names: "Arcee said this" or "Bonecrusher did that". Or maybe they would replace he and she with what we would consider to be gender neutral terms. It would be like how we humans called a group of guys and girls just "guys" because, with most human languages, we tend to make everything masculine because that goes back into history where women were seen as inferior to men, etc, etc.

All I am trying to say is that there can be no A group if a B group isn't present. They would all just be C, because there is no way to distinguish them.

That's all I got. I HAVE to get to bed now. I look forward to more posts or even flammers, tho I will probably just talk them down to nothingness, as is my way of things.

And besides, IT'S JUST A CARTOON!! *L*

You make a good point there, but in the G1 cartoons Arcee, Elita One and the rest were indeed called female autobots. In "the search for alpha trion" both the autobots and decepticons had believed that female autobots were exctint, which means that there were indeed gender differences for the transformers. I suppose you could say that these female autobots are maybe a different genus or subspecies of transformers but I don't thinks that's likely.
I also remember in one episode where the aerialbots travelled back in time they met Elita One and Orion Pax, where Orion told the aerialbots that "Lay off her she's mine" or something like that.
Even in Energon when Arcee/Ariel first appeared she was referred to as a female soldier autobot.

And therefore we will wrap this up in a nutshell.
There are female and male TF's and that's that.

News Credits: 1 · by **Sky Glory of Iacon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:05 pm

darkqueen01 wrote:EDIT: LOVED the prowl pic! Sadly, I don't think we will be seeing Prowl in the next movie. *tear*

Sky Glory of iacon wrote: I'm not opposed to her in #2. Just thinking to myself,"how the hell does that work." Others will think it too once a female transformer is introduced. Someone somewhere has to figure it out for a book to be published down the road or something. How the hell do tf's have little baby transformers? Do they grow up to be big transformers. What the hell???

Anyone got any ideas??

*DQ continues to read about Sky Glory's fanfiction story. After a few moments she stops, ponders, then looks at the rest of the thread. So, no one's gonna comment on this? Anyone?!?! ???? All right. I suppose I can say a word or too.

I just enjoy this little post because someone went ahead and tried to figure out a way to explain how transformers are created. She even created little "baby bot" transformers (Awww) and goes into great detail about how they are raised, the issue of parents/keepers, etc. It's an interesting concept. I don't buy into it due to my own various ideas and concerns, but it's still an inventive concept.

Since the Quintessans created the transformers and they used Quintasaion technology to create the pods that make the “Baby Bots” Remember the bots that first had the infants were the ones who all the Autobots and Decepitcons descended from.

The female bots were manufactured by the Quintessasns as possible Pleasure bots (hookers), Service, (domestic housework), and/or nanny, (child rearing).

The baby bots are technically blank slates and it’s the DNA they received from their keepers via the fuel output line. That develops their temperaments and colors beyond their given color at activation. Also what makes them fembots and male bots. But a fem bot sometimes doesn’t make a fem bot and male bot doesn’t make a male bot all the time though.
But the main thing is that feeding the baby bot the DNA creates the child’s temperament personality and appearance. So that means that the only difference between male and female bots is appearance temperament and personality.

Sky

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:27 pm

Uh, the main problem with "hookers" being that robots don't have genitals. And there are no robot babies. Transformers are whatever age they're programmed to be. There's no sex, no growth, no nothing biological. ROBOTS. Bottom line.

News Credits: 1 · by **Sky Glory of Iacon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:34 pm

Damolisher wrote:Uh, the main problem with "hookers" being that robots don't have genitals. And there are no robot babies. Transformers are whatever age they're programmed to be. There's no sex, no growth, no nothing biological. ROBOTS. Bottom line.

Gees I just wasted 7 months of reserch in my fanfiction... :cry:

by **darkqueen01** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:39 pm

Geez people, is it really necessary to requote my entire articles. (They are no longer posts, just articles.

Since we are on the subject... *Somewhere in the TF universe, Megatron cries.* ... I probably should have clarified that my theories/posts do not refer to previous Transformers fandom, especially G1. It's a kiddy cartoon show created by a company that wanted to sell toys. The aren't out to create some sort of in-depth psychoanalytical television program. Since little kids can relate to the concept of separate males and females then the show would represent that because, quite frankly, it's the easiest thing to do.... or they just didn't want to be so creative.

However, my ideas/opinions are referring to Micheal Bay's new movie which, quite frankly, is a new retelling of the TF universe. I had read/heard that Micheal Bay did not want a female transformer in the movie b/c he did not want to take the time and energy to explain "how female transformers work". When this topic came up I came up with my own ideas and explanations to explain how the concept of male and female autobots would work in Bay's Transformer Universe so that a character like Arcee could be added to the movie line-up.

I think I'm gonna have to add this disclaimer to my previous posts.

Sky Glory of iacon wrote:
Damolisher wrote:Uh, the main problem with "hookers" being that robots don't have genitals. And there are no robot babies. Transformers are whatever age they're programmed to be. There's no sex, no growth, no nothing biological. ROBOTS. Bottom line.

Gees I just wasted 7 months of reserch in my fanfiction...

Awww, don't let that get you down. 7 months of research? Hell, I bet most people don't even consider research when writing their fan-fiction stories. If you wrote a TF story where you create some new "off the wall" concept and explain it well enough into a well written story and you like it then that is all that really matters. Perhaps it doesn't work with the "official" TF fandom, but since I can't find information on what the official word of Transformer creation is (Quintessons not withstanding, though I can't recall how in-depth that gets to be) and you like your story, that is all that really matters. At least, that is how I see it.

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:32 am

Yeah, sorry, bro iddn't mean to bust your chops. Just pointing out the illogical-ness of robosex.

by **schizophrenica** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:33 am

DarkQueen I thought you meant the whole TF universe in general.. My bad... :oops:

by **darkqueen01** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:24 am

No, don't apologize. I definitely should of said this before all my posts to further clarify what I was saying/doing. I really will be writing a disclaimer. Definitely "My bad".

by **Siren Prime** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:11 am

Damolisher wrote:And there are no robot babies. Transformers are whatever age they're programmed to be.

Okay, THAT I know is not true.
What do you call those kid TF's running away at the begining of the old movie?
And the TF's do age. Even if you want to say that they are not kids at first, they are younger, stupid rookies in the begining and as they get older and more experienced they "mature".
Take Hot Shot for example. Between Armada and Energon he definately cooled down and used his brain more. He made more mature desicions.
If TF's were ONLY programmed machines, then that would not have happened. He would have stayed the immature upstart that he was originaly "programmed" to be.

by **Satomiblood** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:45 am

Mattamus Prime wrote:I'm just not sure why everyone is so damn attached to Arcee. I mean give me a break... there were a total of like three females in the G1 cartoon. She wasn't even in the cartoon until later anyway.

I'm not necessarily opposed to Arcee.... and obviously the people doing TF #1 didn't either. Supposedly she almost made it into the film right????

But does someone want to throw me some ideas on how "female" transformers work? It sounds like another "oh **** how do we make this work" concept. I'm looking for TF knowledge. Any ideas???

Arcee could work in the next film. If they made her character like an Autobot version of Nightbird.

by **jazztransformsme** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:06 pm

cristof wrote:No autobot females, I don't wanna see a Transformer titie nor I wanna hear Rachet saying that Ironhode's spark hormones suggest that he wants to mate with the female autobot.

ITA!

by **Raven Guard** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:12 pm

its already been proven that there are females.Look at the toys for example.Maybe their version of females fills a different roll than ours.

by **AxiomScion** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:22 pm

Astrotrain87 wrote:its already been proven that there are females.

Not in Bays movie verse. I get the distinct impression he doesn't want to explain Bumblebee loosing his roboginity...

Astrotrain87 wrote:Look at the toys for example.

I don't think any of the movie line toys are addressed as female.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Maybe their version of females fills a different roll than ours.

But unless the movie depict that role as something the decidedly male TFs cannot fulfill we are back to a single gender that only appear to have humanoid gender identification traits.
<hr>

I'm not opposed to female TF characters, but I think the writers would need to be smart about how they want to introduce the concept. Seeing as the all important allspark gives/creates new TF life and was lost... I'm thinking the fem looking TFs aren't for reproduction. Until the writers decisively tackle what separates the 'two genders' in the movie, i see them at best willing to draw comparisons to humanoid genders but not clearly stating TFs are comprised of two genders.

It just seems like too much techno geographic... scifi meets animal planet for a 90-120 min movie sequel to handle. remember there trying to get the people who don't like TFs to watch the movie. Your 1st and possible 2nd ticket purchase is already counted for. ;;)

Arcee could make a good addition to the second movie roster. I wouldn't expect the character to be remotely like she was portrayed in the cartoon or TF:TM. I'm not sure what of the character they could really use other than being... female :cry:

I'ld like to see a well developed character. If they can do that with a fem TF great, but i don't want the movie to suffer over them trying to make a fem TF work in the Bay verse. I think this was why even current comics are being careful around the subject. see spotlight Arcee

So i'ld ask what would be a bigger disservice to the fans? Introducing a stereotyped fem TF as Arcee has so far been portrayed in G1 toon lore and addressing her fem features in movie, or introducing an interesting character who happens to have fem features and voice but not addressing those gender identifications in the movie do to time?

I'ld like to think it's not the gender that would make Arcee interesting much like i hope when they do a triplechanger there is a personality behind the character. i don't know perhaps i'm just ranting..

Mattamus Prime had an excellent question for the pro Acree members of this forum. Any ideas on how female TFs would work in the Movie?

saying they serve some other purpose is one thing; stating that purpose is another. What would you want Bay's reasoning to be in lue of reproduction?

by **Raven Guard** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:18 pm

I don't know about the arcee toy but the elita one figure is described as female,I think they should just show up without dialog explaining them.In the cartoons they never explained them,Its just there,I mean they never explained how teletraan 1 had a daughter in RiD,but its not like we couldn't enjoy the series.Is it something that we can't just see and continue on with watching the movie?

News Credits: 1 · by **Sky Glory of Iacon** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:33 pm

Sky Glory of iacon wrote:
Damolisher wrote:Uh, the main problem with "hookers" being that robots don't have genitals. And there are no robot babies. Transformers are whatever age they're programmed to be. There's no sex, no growth, no nothing biological. ROBOTS. Bottom line.

Gees I just wasted 7 months of reserch in my fanfiction...

Awww, don't let that get you down. 7 months of research? Hell, I bet most people don't even consider research when writing their fan-fiction stories.

And some of them you can tell esspally the really badly done ones but some are almost done professionally done.

If you wrote a TF story where you create some new "off the wall" concept and explain it well enough into a well written story and you like it then that is all that really matters. Perhaps it doesn't work with the "official" TF fandom, but since I can't find information on what the official word of Transformer creation is (Quintessons not withstanding, though I can't recall how in-depth that gets to be) and you like your story, that is all that really matters. At least, that is how I see it.

[/quote]

According to what I reserched there is two schools of thought about thier origin one is the comic book version. the orignal storyline sayes that Primus battled unicron and turned into cybertron and made the first thirteen autobots.

What I did in my universe was I focused a bit on how thier socity would function with religun before science with some evidence that was posative as thier soicity got older that the autobots didn't belive in the old story of thier creation.

For my story the charector Sky who is the center of this is taught as a child from Opitmus Prime (with Jetfire rolling his optics in the background) the story of Primus. And when he is older and can understand better he is told thier real history as he learns about his kind. Sky who is taught by Jazz that They were created by quintisaans for export and they broke free and stuggled as they do now for a balance and peace. But Primus is thier god and there is proof that he exisits There is a sacred text and the matrix.
So there is the religus version of thier creation and the historical version.

News Credits: 1 · by **Sky Glory of Iacon** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:50 pm

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, sorry, bro iddn't mean to bust your chops.

you are forgiven...

Just pointing out the illogical-ness of robosex.

You haven't seen what Japan has been inventing yet have ya?

Annette

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:00 pm

Oh, great. First Tentacle hentai, now sexbots. Great. lol.

by **AxiomScion** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:10 pm

Astrotrain87 wrote:I don't know about the arcee toy but the elita one figure is described as female,I think they should just show up without dialog explaining them.In the cartoons they never explained them,Its just there,I mean they never explained how teletraan 1 had a daughter in RiD,but its not like we couldn't enjoy the series.Is it something that we can't just see and continue on with watching the movie?

i'm going with no... |:|

Swerve in the Pro and Con Arcee thread wrote:
Satomiblood wrote:
Swerve wrote:I believe another concern with the writing team was how to explain "robot gender", a difficult prospect in an already crowded story that they were concerned the audience would not completely understand.

I think we're getting away from the fact that the Transformers, although mechanical and highly advanced, have very human characteristics. They have a sense of loyalty, treachery, they despise things, they feel pain. They are aliens after all. They could theoretically reproduce. Although incorporating Arcee in the next movie would throw people off, there shouldn't be a need flesh out a reason for her being there other than the war between Autobots/Decepticons.

Actually I paraphrased what was said by the writers in several different interviews. Here is a <a href="http://movies.ign.com/articles/801/801098p1.html">quote</a> from Robert Orci, the screenwriter, in an interview with IGN:
IGN: Were Soundwave and Arcee the two characters you most would have liked to see in the film? Or who would you have liked to include that you couldn't?

Orci: Those two were kind of the main ones, but a few different Transformers came in at various points to serve the story, but the story dictated certain other things. But those are the two main Transformers. I would have liked to see Arcee, but the idea of a female Transformer needs its own explanation, and there just wasn't going to be enough time. It would have been like, "Oh, that's convenient. They're trying to appease women with a pink Transformer." So rather than having that happen, let it just be a straight shot and speak for itself right now.

Suspended disbelief can get you so far in a scifi movie... Explanations, even bad ones, get you the rest of the way.

So if the Allspark was the TF 'baby maker' what purpose does the 'fembot' serve? I'm fine with them being in the movie if someone could give them a purpose beyond defining the rest as male. Aliens that are non-sexual, non-reproductive lifeforms having genders without an explanation seems like a disservice to the fans, while slapping pink on the small curvy Autobot along with feminine stereo types for personality seems like a disservice to women in general.

If none of the fans can explain it, using gender, then how do we expect the screenwriter to? /:)

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:26 pm

They didn't get it on in the G1 Cartoon, they had Vector Sigma. Although, it WOULD be hard to describe female Transformers- The only reason they existed in G1 was as a failsafe for cries of Sexism.