The Energon Pub

I don't think they need to explain anything...
It's just one of those things that doesn't really need an explaination. Just go along with it. They don't even NEED to bring up anything about reproduction at all unless it really has anything to do with the plot.

This is going to sound like a very POOR example, but what about that movie Robots? I didn't here people walking out of the theater going, "But they're ROBOTS!! How can there be different genders?"

All I wanna do is go there and watch Arcee open a serious can of whoop@$$. That's all I want...

Briestron wrote:I saw someone else who mentioned RC is a lame character in that she doesn’t have a interesting personality to bring to the film. And so what if that may have been true for the cartoon character. This is the movies, they can Give her a New personality.

So, you don't want Arcee in because she was a good character that could really add something to the film, you just want her in because she's a girl?

That's tokenism. Tokenism is probably more disrespectful to the "minority" than not including them based on logic.

I said it best in another thread the other day.

Lycantendencies wrote:

Ironhide7 wrote:Warning: Rant

For those of you who think Arcee shouldn't be in TF2 because she's a girl quit being sexist and button up.

Here's what's sexist.

They create a line of robots. The "male" robots have no limitations. They're humanoid, animals, etc.
In fact, many of these robots are androgynous. The G1 seekers and Datsuns or Jazz can all look "female" if drawn with what we call feminine postures.
The only thing that makes them "male" is their voices, and that's solely due to the "boys don't buy girls" mindset that has seen Hasbro release far less female characters in franchises like G1 Joe etc.
But they are portrayed as an asexual race, not a race of mixed sexes, of male and female.

Then they introduce females. These females all have the same body shape, one that mimics the human female form, with curves and breasts.
Their faces all have human female features too.

They're token females, the very essence of sexism.
This sexism is furthered when the only main female Transformer, who is coloured Pink, spends all her time mothering people and generally acting like an Autobot maid.
The other fembots, though brief, all manage to act like typical humans females too.

There's your sexism, robots designated female and then limited in design and role because of it.

There was never a logical reason that an asexual race had female robots, let alone why they all had humanoid female forms or all acted like/had stereotyped human female roles, and it is that huge lack of logic and stereotyping that is why they don't, in the eyes of many, belong in TF.

Call us sexist all you want, but we're not the ones championing a token pink female.

Many of us see Transformers as a genderless race, there's no need for hes or shes.
We dislike Arcee for having been a pretty useless token character, and need a decent explanation before we accept either male or female as concepts for the Trasnformers, as without it, it's just patronising overhumanisation as though we can't accept a race as equal and different, or simple tokenism.

Briestron wrote:The thing that really gets me about most of the people who don’t like RC are mainly guys, and most of them are really basing it all on a chauvinistic attitude toward the idea of strong women characters. (Not all guys, but most.) They can hide it with the debate about robot sex all they want. Its basically all a matter of they don’t want girls in their clubhouse.
I’m a dude myself, so trust me, I don’t like ever pulling the “men are evil” point in debates like these either; but lets face it, this is the main reason for most (Again, Most. Not all.) of the hatred directed at the character.

Claiming ours is a minority view adopted as a shield by bigots with a chauvenistic agenda is insulting, innacurate and a cheap way to discredit the argument we make.

Debate it by all means. offer up interesting ideas how females could be done as some have done, but please, don't try to pass off a genuine held viewpoint as little more than a smokescreen for the masses.
Those who are against girls no matter how it's handled just because they don't want them, are comparatively few.

Siren Prime wrote:Haven't they already done that though?
I mean not babies, but weren't there TF kids running around in the begining of the old movie?

Yes, but they weren't Cybertronians, they were Lithonians.
Still sentient robots, but a different race, one that was shown to have males, females and children.

On the flip side, Cybertronians were built by Quintessons in the show or asexually reproduced and later built and given life by the Matrix in the comic, so were either way given an origin and evolution that said they didn't have or need kids or sexes.

Astrotrain87 wrote:And if you at the movies and and see Arcee but don't find out if or why they have sex,will that prevent you from enjoying the movie?Did blackarachnia and airrazor prevent you from watching beast wars?

Beast Wars, no, as they were partially biological, but G1 yes.

Not just Arcee, but "teenage" Orion Pax, Ravage talking like a cat just because his robot mode looked like one, Dinobots being stupid because they were Dinosaurs.

I grew up on the comic and it did none of these things, so even at 7 they seemed ridiculous.

My god Lycantendencies...It seems to me that you are debating a whole nother issue all together.

First off, I made an effort to make it abundantly clear that I was not saying All guys who try and debate the RC character are bigots, but that most of it is driven from the childish chauvinistic attitudes toward women characters in many different forms of entertainment like transformers.

But to also attack Me for Wanting to see a strong female character portrayed in a movie, and then clame I'm the one being sexist!?

So, you don't want Arcee in because she was a good character that could really add something to the film, you just want her in because she's a girl?

I never said that. I was replying to the argument some make that the original character didn't have a strong or interesting personality,(funny enough, an argument you seem to make yourself.) and if that be the case, then Lets give her one. Lets make her a strong independent woman who can go tow to tow with the big boys.

Many of us see Transformers as a genderless race, there's no need for hes or shes.

Please excuse my harshness, but anyone with a brainstem recognizes that this is just not the case. The argument of "sexual" gender aside. We all know Optimus Prim is a Male personality. he's a Dude. To argue this is arguing a fact. get over it.
So if we can have a Dude auto bot personality, there's no reason to argue the existence of a female personality.

We dislike Arcee for having been a pretty useless token character, and need a decent explanation before we accept either male or female as concepts for the Trasnformers, as without it, it's just patronising overhumanisation as though we can't accept a race as equal and different, or simple tokenism.

This argument you make, almost defeats Everything you've tried to make point of. You're basically saying that if a female character-dispite if she has an interesting strong and compleing personality-cant be explaind, as to her existence, then she shouldn't be in the movie/fandom at all?

With all do respect, I think you really need to step back, take a few deep breaths, and just think about want it is you are trying to say here. Because as is, all it appears to be is you throwing up a bunch of nonsense just because you dont like Arcee.

Its been established already in the movieverse that there are female transformers.Arcee's bio descirbes her as a "she" and elita one is decirbed as a female in hers.Whoever does not want to think that theres no femmes in the movieverse is just in denial.Unless Bay him self states that there are no femmes in the movieverse than there is no "ture" answer unless you go by the toys and comics.
And I think its safe to say that the movie comics are cannon.
No one has been able to give a real good point as to why femmes can't exist or how it would ruin transformers or otherwise be bad.I can't see an avrage moviegoer saying

"That female robot in the movie ruined the entire movie for me"

or

"They showed a female but didn't tell me if they have sex and can make babies,I feel jipped"

>>edited for typos<<

Briestron wrote:My god Lycantendencies...It seems to me that you are debating a whole nother issure all together.

First off, I made an effort to make it abundantly clear that I was not saying All guys who try and debate the RC character are bigots, but that most of it is driven from the childish chauvinistic attitudes toward women characters in many different forms of entertainment like transformers.

But to also attack Me for Wanting to see a strong female character betrayed in a movie, and then clame I'm the one being sexist!?

So, you don't want Arcee in because she was a good character that could really add something to the film, you just want her in because she's a girl?

I never said that. I was replying to the argument some make that the original character didn't have a strong or interesting personality, and if that be the case, then Lets give her one. Lets make her a strong independent woman who can go two to two with the big boys.

Many of us see Transformers as a genderless race, there's no need for hes or shes.

Please excuse my harshness, but anyone with a brainstem recognizes that this is just not the case. The argument of "sexual" gender aside. We all know Optimus Prim is a Male perinality. he's a Dude. To argue this is arguing a fact. get over it.
So if we can have a Dude auto bot personality, there's no reason to argue the existence of a female personality.

We dislike Arcee for having been a pretty useless token character, and need a decent explanation before we accept either male or female as concepts for the Trasnformers, as without it, it's just patronising overhumanisation as though we can't accept a race as equal and different, or simple tokenism.

This argument you make, almost defeats Everything you've tried to make point of. You're basically saying that if a female character-dispite if she has an interesting strong and compleing personality-cant be explaind as to her existence. then she shouldn't be in the movie/fandom at all?

With all do respect, I think you really need to step back take a few deep breaths, and think about just want it is you are trying to say here. Because as is, all it appears to be is you throwing up a bunch of nonsense just because you dont like Arcee.

[/quote]

QFT!

Who cares.
Plus kids watch Transformers. When you guys were kids did you wonder why there were female autobots? I didn't until this forum got started. So why would 5 year-old kids ask about how Transformers reproduce?

PS. Pink is not a "pussy" color.
PPS. Why are we taking this so seriously

Jazzz wrote:Why are we taking this so seriously

I dont know...I just think Arcee could be a really cool character to see done in the movie. But because she's a female character, I for some reason have to defend my opinion through this nonsenes.

Briestron wrote:First off, I made an effort to make it abundantly clear that I was not saying All guys who try and debate the RC character are bigots, but that most of it is

It is the bolded bit I take issue with.

I have no doubt there is some, but most is a gross misrepresentation. It'd be like saying most Americans who supported the war in Iraq just hated islamics.
It's completely untrue.
A few may, but they're not an accurate cross section of the rest of America.

Briestron wrote:But to also attack Me for Wanting to see a strong female character betrayed in a movie, and then clame I'm the one being sexist!?

Yes. Because the sex of the character is the defining aspect.
You want a race of genderless beings to have a female just for the sake of having a female.

If you were saying you want to see a great character like Blackarachnia in there and that removing her gender would be wrong, I'd agree.
But if you just want a female robot for the sake of having one, then no, it's tokenism.

Briestron wrote:

Many of us see Transformers as a genderless race, there's no need for hes or shes.

We all know Optimus Prim is a Male personality. he's a Dude. To argue this is arguing a fact. get over it.
So if we can have a Dude auto bot personality, there's no reason to argue the existence of a female personality.

It is not arguing fact.

Personality is not sex.

We're straight back to the sexism issue.

No character has a male or female personality in my opinion because I don't stereotype and pigeonhole.
In fact, the very existence of the age old phrase Tomboy should tell you that girls can have "boy" personalities and vice versa.
I mean going off stereotypes, many say Starscream has a very feminine personality.
By your logic, "he's" a girl.

What makes Prime a male personality?
What aspect of Prime makes his personality so unlike a womans?

Seriously, in your own words, "step back, take a few deep breaths, and just think about want it is you are trying to say here", 'cos from where I'm sat, as well intentioned as you are, I'm seeing sexism.

I never thought of any TF as male, I never thought as Ravage as a cat, I never thought of Jazz as black.
They were all just robots.
When I did take on the gender issue, it had to make sense.

Briestron wrote:This argument you make, almost defeats Everything you've tried to make point of. You're basically saying that if a female character-dispite if she has an interesting strong and compleing personality-cant be explaind as to her existence. then she shouldn't be in the movie/fandom at all?

No, because I believe it can be explained.
In my collection, I have fanficcy explanations for my female characters for example.

What I AM saying is that many do not think of Transformers as gendered.
If they bring in what appears to be a token female introduced solely to have a female there, it will, to those who don't buy robots with sexes, look like little more than a gimmick and undermine any character she will have.

That doesn't just apply to sexes btw, they didn't large scale mass shift as they thought it might detract from the realism to people.
Sentient robots is already a strecth of the imagination.
If it makes people go "wtf" or "why", it pulls them out, disconnects them, and so you absolutely have to have a degree of believeability to sell it.

Any character that appears to take realism further, a female robot in a non gendered species, a mass shifting robot, a bio mechanical robot, all need explaining or else it detracts from the character themselves.

Jazzz wrote:Who cares.
Plus kids watch Transformers. When you guys were kids did you wonder why there were female autobots?

Like I said, yes.

The G1 comics ran from 84 to 91, and it only ever featured one female robot, Arcee, and her comic origin saw her built as part of human relations, so I'm not the only one.

Once AGAIN, I have to explain why female transformers were added in:

Female Transformers were added in TO WARD OFF SEXISM CLAIMS. Why? Because EVERY SINGLE TOY IN G1 IS A MALE CHARACTER. Female toys didn't appear until Beast Wars, and most of those weren't particularly feminine. Robots do not have sex, U cannot believe people are still trying to peddle robot sex, we have had two topics about it in the freakin' Cartoons and Comics and GD Forums, which have been locked, because significant evidence was given as to why Transformers don't have sex, and yet people STILL tried to argue the clear evidence. Female Transformes are there usually as token characters. Why would robots need sex? They're freakin' machines. Female Transformers are female in Voice Actors and name only. And Screw Arcee. I'll take Elita-1 anyday of the week.

(And there's no "Chauvanism" in why people dont' want female Transformers. But seriously, if this were some girly thing like Barbie, and there were no males in there, would any of you female care? Don't think so. And P.S., I saw in a couple of posts "RC?" her name is ARCEE, not "RC". She isn't remote controlled.)

Lycantendencies wrote:

Briestron wrote:First off, I made an effort to make it abundantly clear that I was not saying All guys who try and debate the RC character are bigots, but that most of it is

It is the bolded bit I take issue with.

I have no doubt there is some, but most is a gross misrepresentation. It'd be like saying most Americans who supported the war in Iraq just hated islamics.
It's completely untrue.
A few may, but they're not an accurate cross section of the rest of America.

its not unture. The United states (and no I'm not a America hater)
did the same with the Japanese in world war 2.Most people will deny it but they don't want to see Arcee just because shes a female,Its just like most people who are anti zionist
are anti semite and bash Israel to vent there hate for the jews.

Lycantendencies wrote:But if you just want a female robot for the sake of having one, then no, it's tokenism.

Thats not tokenism thats wanting a female.Tokenism would be
wanting a female who portays a sterotype.Briestron said he wanted to see a strong female thats on par with the other characters,witch is the oppisite of tokenism

Lycantendencies wrote:That doesn't just apply to sexes btw, they didn't large scale mass shift as they thought it might detract from the realism to people.
Sentient robots is already a strecth of the imagination.
If it makes people go "wtf" or "why", it pulls them out, disconnects them

Its a movie about robots that transform into stuff.I don't think the sight of a femme is going to throw off the moviegoers.

Lycantendencies wrote:The G1 comics ran from 84 to 91, and it only ever featured one female robot, Arcee, and her comic origin saw her built as part of human relations, so I'm not the only one.

Simon Furman is a flaming bigot.He wants to rewirte the entire cannon to excude femmes and is not being objective meaning hes trying to put his own opinion of how transformers should be and using his postion to do so.Hes grasping at straws to excude femmes.Thats like wirting a news article,making it a editoral and stating it as fact.Also did you see Megatron origins?There were femmes all over the backround and if you look at the art without the speech bubbles you could see what might be a Deception Flamewar easteregg in the cells when Starscream breaks them out.the person who drew it was alexmilne or something like that.hes on devaintart if you want to see it for youself.As for the G1 comics,There was also magna that showed not only decepticon femmes but childeren.

Lycantendencies wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:Haven't they already done that though?
I mean not babies, but weren't there TF kids running around in the begining of the old movie?

Yes, but they weren't Cybertronians, they were Lithonians.
Still sentient robots, but a different race, one that was shown to have males, females and children.

But that's the point!!!
I know they aren't Cybertronians, but like you just said, they ARE robots.
The Cybertronians are shown to have males and females.
They ARE... really!!
There is only so many ways that you can deny it. There ARE males and females. All offical sources have stated that the different TF's have different genders.

Direct quotes from Seibertron.com...

"A sweet, kind, and loyal Autobot to her friends, Arcee is also a merciless, lethal warrior to her enemies. Arcee's intelligence, quick wit, and coolness under fire make her invaluable to the Autobot cause. The Decepticons constantly underrate her because, since to them she so closely resembles the female humans of Earth which the Decepticons have absolutely no respect for, they believe she is beneath their consideration. It is an attitude that Arcee exploits with deadly efficiency. Arcee is very protective of the human, Danny Witwicky, son of Spike Witwicky, the long-time Earthling friend of the Autobots. In fact, sometimes Arcee is a bit overly protective of him and treats Danny almost like a fragile Ming vase since his skin is not composed of a supremely tough metal alloy like hers. Arcee is attracted to the Autobot, Hot Rod, who reciprocates the affection. But neither of them is willing to admit it openly. If one were to listen to the verbal pot-shots they take at each other, one would think that they were the bitterest of enemies. But catch one of the Autobots, or worse, a Decepticon, making a disparaging remark about Hot Rod in Arcee's presence and the offender will more often than not find his hydraulic hoses sliced to ribbons before he knows it."

ALSO...

"Starscream makes no secret of his ambition to overthrow Megatron as Decepticon Leader. He is ruthless, cold-blooded and cruel. In that sense the two rivals are very much alike. But he has a vain side that clearly distinguishes him. He considers himself the most sophisticated and handsome of the Decepticons. He exudes a high-class, urbane air that provides a certain irony to his murderous tendencies. He looks down at Megatron for being antiquated in his military strategy. Starscream believes the Decepticons should rely more on guile and speed rather than brute, destructive force to defeat the Autobots. Megatron overlooks the potential threat Starscream represents for one very good reason: Starscream is very good at his job."

People can whine and complain about it all they want, but if creators made it that way, they get the final say.

What you just said about the Lithonians clompletely unravels many arguements of many people.
You said that they ARE robots and that they DO have genders. This disproves what many others say about it being impossible for robots to have genders.

Cybertronians do have genders.
And I'll also go far enough to say that there are kid TF's too. Maybe not the same sense as humans, but there are many unexperienced TF's. You know.. the younger ones that always seem to get into trouble.
But I'm handling one arguement at a time here.
I'm not so much concerned about the child Transformers thing, but the obvious scorn for (or complete denile of) the existence of female TF's is just irrating.


... wow that was long winded... sorry 'bout that...

Oh, and to people who say "Der, Transformers can't have genders!", have you dropkicks been asleep at the freakin' wheel since G1? TRANSFORMERS HAVE GENDERS. GORDON FREAKIN' BENNETT. STOP ARGUING WHETHER THEY HAVE GENDERS OR NOT. THEY DO. THAT'S THE POINT. ****, this is like me trying to argue that the world is flat.

Damolisher wrote:Oh, and to people who say "Der, Transformers can't have genders!", have you dropkicks been asleep at the freakin' wheel since G1? TRANSFORMERS HAVE GENDERS. GORDON FREAKIN' BENNETT. STOP ARGUING WHETHER THEY HAVE GENDERS OR NOT. THEY DO. THAT'S THE POINT. ****, this is like me trying to argue that the world is flat.

Thank you.

OH, and the comment on the last page about Furman being a bigot may just about be the silliest statement I've ever read. Uh, newsflash: Transformers? Yeah, they're ROBOTS. So Furman sees no point in having genders on things that don't have sex to creat new life. But obviously, Furman's never been on Seibertron, has he, where "I don't want genders" to certain members, translated from English English to Standard English means "SCREW YOU FEMALES! BROS BEFORE HOES, BITCHES!" I'd love to know how that is, but still. Why the hell are so many chicks going apeshit about Arcee not being in the movie? Michael Bay didn't see the point in the same way Furman doesn't see the point. Evidently, he didn't realise that this bullshit to do with "WAH, NO ARCEE!" would come about. I think it's rather pathetic, IMO. It's one crappy character who amounted to jackshit in G1 in the first place. Females in Transformers have mainly been token efforts. What makes you think Hasbro will do things any differently?

Damolisher wrote:OH, and the comment on the last page about Furman being a bigot may just about be the silliest statement I've ever read. Uh, newsflash: Transformers? Yeah, they're ROBOTS. So Furman sees no point in having genders on things that don't have sex to creat new life. But obviously, Furman's never been on Seibertron, has he, where "I don't want genders" to certain members, translated from English English to Standard English means "SCREW YOU FEMALES! BROS BEFORE HOES, BITCHES!"

To me, it indicates not having to deal with this kinda crap.

Maybe "bigot" wasn't the best word,But a person with his job and title should'nt go off imposing his opinion in the comics.
And I'm all for not having all the sex talk about robots or making babies but look at all the crap that happens when the slashist see a no femme version of transformers.

Damolisher wrote:"WAH, NO ARCEE!" would come about. I think it's rather pathetic, IMO. It's one crappy character who amounted to jackshit in G1 in the first place.

the same could be said about sunstreaker and sideswipe.
They did noting in the cartoon but there a fan fav and people act like they were the best part of G1.
People do nothing but bitch about who they want in the movie.
And if theres enough want from people to make sigs and such,why
not do it?If Starscream was not in the movie there would have been hundreds of threads on the subject until he was put in or the movie seires ended.

I give up trying to debate this with Lycantendencies. he's just too far gone.

Im just glad to see im not the only one who sees the flaws in his own personal fan logic.
I mean he's basically trying to say that having a strong female TF character is more sexist then cutting women out from the TF universe all together. Fricken madness is what that is.

Astrotrain87 wrote:its not unture. The United states (and no I'm not a America hater)
did the same with the Japanese in world war 2.Most people will deny it but they don't want to see Arcee just because shes a female,Its just like most people who are anti zionist
are anti semite and bash Israel to vent there hate for the jews.

This is all paranoid garbage.

It IS true that there arer some, but most is complete crap.
It's almost like some of you can't accept that people have views without some kind of sinister agenda.

I don't support Iraq, but I know many who did and none were secretly hating Islamic people.
I bash Israel a lot because of what the country does, not the religion, and I know many who do the same, many of whom are jewish.

Accept reality. People have opinions. You may not agree with them, but that doesn't then mean the opinions are garbage and a smokesecreen for hate filled agendas.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Simon Furman is a flaming bigot.He wants to rewirte the entire cannon to excude femmes and is not being objective meaning hes trying to put his own opinion of how transformers should be and using his postion to do so.Hes grasping at straws to excude femmes.

Haha, again with the paranoia.

Furman may or may not be a bigot, but his stance on female Transformers is a valid one based on logic.

In the comic, before Furman, they were built then given life by the Matrix.
There was no logic behind female Transformers.
There were no female robots before Furman.
In the cartoon they were built by Quintessons. There was no logic behind female robots, let alone the ones that looked so humanised female and seemed to have romatic interests in Transformers that DID NOT REPRODUCE sexually.

It's not a sinister agenda, it is trying to make sense of what was done without any logical explanation.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Thats not tokenism thats wanting a female.Tokenism would be
wanting a female who portays a sterotype.Briestron said he wanted to see a strong female thats on par with the other characters,witch is the oppisite of tokenism

Stereotype - strong female thats on par with the other characters.

If they were to adequately explain female bots, I'd want more than one, and I'd like them to be varied, be it strong, weak, complex, simplistic.
Like the "boy" robots really.

Not tokens, just varied characters.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Maybe "bigot" wasn't the best word,But a person with his job and title should'nt go off imposing his opinion in the comics.

Look at G1. It started as robots. They were given personalities and a history that said they were built and given life.

Then the writers of the cartoon created females. They weren't figures devised by Hasbro, it was solely a cartoon decision to make girl bots.
They took a non gendered species and gave them females and girlfriends as it was their opinion they should exist.

Furman stuck to the original concept, the show makers imposed THEIR opinion.

Not just with females, they also made Ravage talk like a cat, most bots with animal alts animalistic. They thought the more they reflected humans, the better it was and forced that opinion on us.

Throughout G1, Hasbro released a whopping ZERO female Transformers, so if you are bitching about anyone changing what should be with an agenda, it's Sunbow.

And as much as I dislike what they did, I don't whine and say they shouldn't force their beliefs on us, as that's what all writers do and should do.

As for why Furman avoided fembots and gave us Primus over space monkey and Quintessons etc, it's very simple.

The cartoon was free. You tuned in and watched it, and it still sank after 3 seasons.
You had to actually buy the comic.
They had to compete with Marvel and DC's finest, so everything had to have more thought behind it so readers would still keep paying.
Furman ensured that Transformers lasted til 91. He introduced Primus, religion, biomechanic Transformers, the swarm.
Everything he did provided the backbone of what had kept the franchise going all these years, so I for one am glad his opinions were so strong in his writing.

Siren Prime wrote:I know they aren't Cybertronians, but like you just said, they ARE robots.

Which I said.

I'm not against female robots, just female Transformers without a realistic explanation.

I also did not deny the existence of female Transformers as they exist in most lines.
I just deny the existence of any explanation other than overhumanisation and cheap gimmicry.

We have always had females, we have always had mass shifting, we have always had "primitives", we have always had "teenagers", we have always had morphing as opposed to Transforming.

That they exist in Transformers is a fact, but not one of these is accepted by the entire fandom or even the creative staff, who take or leave them or search for an explanation.

Briestron wrote:I mean he's basically trying to say that having a strong female TF character is more sexist then cutting women out from the TF universe all together.

DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.

I told you I do believe they can be explained and so I don't believe they would ever be cut out.
I just insits the explanation is neccessary, and as even the writers have said words to that effect, I don't think it's so unreasonable.

And yes, I do think what you want is sexist. It may be well intentioned, but you just want a "strong female robot".

Like I said, a non sexist desire for females would have no pre-concieved traits.
They could be strong or weak, good or bad, ultimate heroes or useless.

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

Astrotrain87 wrote:

Damolisher wrote:OH, and the comment on the last page about Furman being a bigot may just about be the silliest statement I've ever read. Uh, newsflash: Transformers? Yeah, they're ROBOTS. So Furman sees no point in having genders on things that don't have sex to creat new life. But obviously, Furman's never been on Seibertron, has he, where "I don't want genders" to certain members, translated from English English to Standard English means "SCREW YOU FEMALES! BROS BEFORE HOES, BITCHES!"

To me, it indicates not having to deal with this kinda crap.

Maybe "bigot" wasn't the best word,But a person with his job and title should'nt go off imposing his opinion in the comics.
And I'm all for not having all the sex talk about robots or making babies but look at all the crap that happens when the slashist see a no femme version of transformers.

Oh Lord, don't remind me...
And come on Damolisher, don't be so crude.

I personally don't think that throwing around words like sexist, bigot, chauvinism, ect., is a very good idea.
I mean really, they're very rude accustations and do nothing but piss off other people. If anyone even gave a crap they could look back and see that I've never used any of those words in my posts.

I mean this whole thing really isn't a big deal.
And it's not past a lot of women to be sexist either.

I don't even know who this Furman guy is.
I didn't become a TF fan until Armada. And so what if he didn't want femmes? That's his opinion.
And my opinion is that the series would be really awesome if they actually set aside a minute to design a decent female Transformer. Not anyone like Tunderblast (twit) or Override (who wasn't even a girl originally), but a character that actually has some depth, brians, and conflict, and actually is an important asset to the story, not just there to stop an uproar of, "HOLY CRAP!! THEY'RE ALL FREAKING SEXISTS!!!"

Double post...

Oh, crap... I double posted... sorry...

Lycantendencies wrote:This is all paranoid garbage.

Nice counter point *major sarcasm*

Lycantendencies wrote:I bash Israel a lot because of what the country does

Your talking about a group of people who bash a country that is under constant war.Bad things happen in war.Theres never a conflict in human history where bad things DONT happen.The side that denounce Isreal mostly seems to have no problem with terrorists murdering civilians and torturing prisoners.Its a logial conclusion.

Lycantendencies wrote:Accept reality. People have opinions. You may not agree with them, but that doesn't then mean the opinions are garbage

Take your own advice.On every theard I've seen you post on,you argue and insist your idea is right until the other side gives up trying to talk with you.Or you bait someone by leaving a comment like "I don't" and wait for a response.

Don't put words in my mouth.I never called your opinons garbage.

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

That seems like the biggest piece of bull*crap* I have ever heard.
I wish I could be nice about this, but at this point you have driven me to the braking point of sanity. You're insane, you are fliping nuts, out of your mind bonkers. I dont even care if someone thinks I should get baned for saying it. People like you are the reason why others hate geeks and nerds, you give the rest of us a bad name.
On one hand I can almost see the good intentions you must think you have in what you are saying. But It’s all watered down by complete utter nonsense.
I know not a word of this will get through to you, but I have had it, I cant play nice with you anymore.

I thought Arcee could be a cool character to see in the film, but to say that, I have to go through all the bull of defending the idea, because she's a female robot. And then some nut job comes along and pegs Me for being the the sexist...Insanity...Bloody fricken nuts...

Briestron wrote:

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

That seems like the biggest piece of bull*crap* I have ever heard.
I wish I could be nice about this, but at this point you have driven me to the braking point of sanity. You're insane, you are fliping nuts, out of your mind bonkers. I dont even care if someone thinks I should get baned for saying it. People like you are the reason why others hate geeks and nerds, you give the rest of us a bad name.
On one hand I can almost see the good intentions you must think you have in what you are saying. But It’s all watered down by complete utter nonsense.
I know not a word of this will get through to you, but I have had it, I cant play nice with you anymore.

I thought Arcee could be a cool character to see in the film, but to say that, I have to go through all the bull of defending the idea, because she's a female robot. And then some nut job comes along and pegs Me for being the the sexist...Insanity...Bloody fricken nuts...

Don't let Lycantendencies get to you.Check out his posts, there all just him argueing with other members and being real nasty about it.

Astrotrain87 wrote:

Briestron wrote:

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

That seems like the biggest piece of bull*crap* I have ever heard.
I wish I could be nice about this, but at this point you have driven me to the braking point of sanity. You're insane, you are fliping nuts, out of your mind bonkers. I dont even care if someone thinks I should get baned for saying it. People like you are the reason why others hate geeks and nerds, you give the rest of us a bad name.
On one hand I can almost see the good intentions you must think you have in what you are saying. But It’s all watered down by complete utter nonsense.
I know not a word of this will get through to you, but I have had it, I cant play nice with you anymore.

I thought Arcee could be a cool character to see in the film, but to say that, I have to go through all the bull of defending the idea, because she's a female robot. And then some nut job comes along and pegs Me for being the the sexist...Insanity...Bloody fricken nuts...

Don't let Lycantendencies get to you.Check out his posts, there all just him argueing with other members and being real nasty about it.

A lot of people on this site get into arguements.
You just got to blow it off and remember that most people are on here to have fun.