Optimus Primevil wrote:if only he let demolishor lived to find out more about the fallen, then he could've stopped a majority of the events on RotF from happening
Optimus Primevil wrote:and he could've also just beat the crap out of megatron and sentinel then have them locked up, but then he had to violate his own rule.
Joker'sRequiem wrote:That is assuming that Demolishor was privy to all of the details of the Fallen and Megatron's plans for Earth. For all the audience knows, he knows nothing more than "The Fallen shall rise again". I always say him as more of a messenger, who's purpose was to deliver an ominous warning. Any extent of his knowledge about the actual plan that the Fallen and Megatron execute later isn't really much beyond speculation.
Joker'sRequiem wrote:Where would he lock them up? What country would want to undertake the responsibility and national security risk of housing intergalactic war criminals? And who would be responsible for paying for, funding, and maintaining the facility? The size that would be necessary to house Megatron and Sentinel alone would have been a very large undertaking in terms of construction, and the size you would need to house numerous Decepticon prisoners is an even greater, more expensive undertaking for any nation. And ultimately, what would stop the Decepticons from working to free those captured, or the prisoners themselves from escaping and starting the conflict all over again.
Megatron has only one goal: The utter extermination and/or enslavement of the human race. That is the end result of his attempts to rebuild Cybertron. The moment he chose to attempt to use the All-Spark to rebuild an army of Decepticons and restart the war he lost his right to freedom. The moment he chose to use a sun harvester to destroy our sun, and thus ALL SENTIENT LIFE ON OUR PLANET he lost his right to freedom. And the moment he and Sentinel tried to enslave the entire human race to be used as slave labor he lost his right to freedom. He and the Decepticons chose their path to their goal, and in the end, Optimus chose to sacrifice the freedom of the few to ensure the freedom of the many.
Powermaster Jazz wrote:He did set them free....to the afterlife.
Optimus Primevil wrote:so is that why optimus never leaves any transformer he fights to live? if only he let demolishor lived to find out more about the fallen, then he could've stopped a majority of the events on RotF from happening andhe could've also just beat the crap out of megatron and sentinel then have them locked up, but then he had to violate his own rule.
then again seeing an optimus giving no quarter is one of the movies strong points (no "out of the way hot rod' scenes)
NatsumeRyu wrote:After watching all three films in one day, I came to the realization that Prime seems to have given up most of his hope for his own race, even from the get go of the first film, like how he would rather get rid of the cube at any cost (IE his own life is the greatest he can offer without beginning to involve others). It starts when Bumblebee is captured and Prime's refusing to rescue him because "there's no way to free Bumblebee without harming the humans." From there he defends the human race in speaking to the other Autobots because we're "primitive."
It gets reinforced in the second film when he's revived.
It looks a lot like he's molding and trying desperately to protect the human race from what happened to the Cybertronians.
From that perspective, suddenly human life (or any form of life he deems more redeemable than his own race's) has more value than his brothers.
Optimus Primevil wrote:he's leader of one FACTION, not all...then again that'll be a shout-out to armada optimus prime who declared that he's the leader of all transformers.
Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.
twiztid_soundwave wrote:Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.
I couldn't have said this better myself.
Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.
Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?
Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?
Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.
Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom
twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation
But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?5150 Cruiser wrote:Maybe. But there not on Cybertron. There on earth.
so what's stopping them to go back or is such a hell-hole that optimus doesn't want to go back? probably because based on the ending of the first movie he basically tells them to go to earth.Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?5150 Cruiser wrote: Um, no history does not praise slavery as their acomplishments. Don't know who is teaching you history, but i'd switch classes.
history class doesn't tell it that...directly, it's mostly pop media like movies(like in gladiator where the conquering romans are up against the celts. the celts are portrayed as savage barbarians who beheaded a roman officer and sent the corpse on a horse, by default the civilized romans look like the good guys) and tv shows. then again hitler was basing his third reich on the roman empire and whatever they did he tried to make it even better (one of his plans was to make a Colosseum in berlin that is three times or so bigger than the original)Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.5150 Cruiser wrote: Again, your asuming that there is a facility large and strong enough to house them. And even if that were the case, you run the risk of the enemy forces staging a rescue and putting more lives in danger. Sentinel Proved that he was as strong, aif not stronger than Optimus. Atempting to hold him would have been to high of a risk. And concidering both Megs and Sentinel's ideal were to destroy/enslave the human race and that they can potentially lie for thousands of years, holding them captive wasn't feasible from logical stand point.
you even read the part about the using them as bait for a trap?Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom5150 Cruiser wrote:So its their right for freedom, but it it ok for them to take our freedom away? Sentinel and Megatron wanted to use Humans as slave labor, clean us dry of natural resources and were responisble for not only Autobot deaths, but hundreds of human deaths as well. Yet you believe they should still have the rights of freedom? Really?
twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation
But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it
Optimus Primevil wrote: so what's stopping them to go back or is such a hell-hole that optimus doesn't want to go back? probably because based on the ending of the first movie he basically tells them to go to earth.
Optimus Primevil wrote: you even read the part about the using them as bait for a trap?).
Optimus Primevil wrote:they're sentient are they? so by optimus' logic they are entitled to freedom...hence why he kills them all instead(according to the movies).
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Optimus Primevil wrote:so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:Optimus Primevil wrote:so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?
When did we disect any advance beings? If your referring to megatron we never decected him.
But i'll ask again, how do you plan on holding any decpticon prisoners?
5150 Cruiser wrote:Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?
Maybe. But there not on Cybertron. There on earth.Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?
Um, no history does not praise slavery as their acomplishments. Don't know who is teaching you history, but i'd switch classes.Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.
Again, your asuming that there is a facility large and strong enough to house them. And even if that were the case, you run the risk of the enemy forces staging a rescue and putting more lives in danger. Sentinel Proved that he was as strong, aif not stronger than Optimus. Atempting to hold him would have been to high of a risk. And concidering both Megs and Sentinel's ideal were to destroy/enslave the human race and that they can potentially lie for thousands of years, holding them captive wasn't feasible from logical stand point.Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom
So its their right for freedom, but it it ok for them to take our freedom away? Sentinel and Megatron wanted to use Humans as slave labor, clean us dry of natural resources and were responisble for not only Autobot deaths, but hundreds of human deaths as well. Yet you believe they should still have the rights of freedom? Really?twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation
But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it
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