The Energon Pub

chuckdawg1999 wrote:By the way, since somebody asked, everyone has the rights to Star Wars in Japan. Bandai, Takara, and Hot Toys all make figures and such.

*raises hand*. That was me . Thank you. So, I guess if anyone in Japan wanted to submit orders for past Haslab (Non TF) Projects (Razorcrest, Galactus etc...) I guess they would still go through TT Mall?

o.supreme wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:By the way, since somebody asked, everyone has the rights to Star Wars in Japan. Bandai, Takara, and Hot Toys all make figures and such.

*raises hand*. That was me . Thank you. So, I guess if anyone in Japan wanted to submit orders for past Haslab (Non TF) Projects (Razorcrest, Galactus etc...) I guess they would still go through TT Mall?

Rights are a bit more open in Japan. With Haslab I'm not sure how that would work.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:By the way, since somebody asked, everyone has the rights to Star Wars in Japan. Bandai, Takara, and Hot Toys all make figures and such.

*raises hand*. That was me . Thank you. So, I guess if anyone in Japan wanted to submit orders for past Haslab (Non TF) Projects (Razorcrest, Galactus etc...) I guess they would still go through TT Mall?

Rights are a bit more open in Japan. With Haslab I'm not sure how that would work.

Rights are weird here too, just look at the various companies making Ninja Turtkes toys (which includes Hasbro)

william-james88 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:By the way, since somebody asked, everyone has the rights to Star Wars in Japan. Bandai, Takara, and Hot Toys all make figures and such.

*raises hand*. That was me . Thank you. So, I guess if anyone in Japan wanted to submit orders for past Haslab (Non TF) Projects (Razorcrest, Galactus etc...) I guess they would still go through TT Mall?

Rights are a bit more open in Japan. With Haslab I'm not sure how that would work.

Rights are weird here too, just look at the various companies making Ninja Turtkes toys (which includes Hasbro)

I think we're talking two different things here...Transformers are "special" in that both Hasbro and Takara Tomy can make them, due to the history.

But for things like Marvel, Hasbro makes them worldwide (I believe).

As for things like multiple companies making Ninja Turtles, the owner of the license gives the rights for certain products to certain manufacturers.

Mattel can make preschool DC toys, but McFarlane can make DC collector toys, and Nemcor can make DC blankets (I made that last one up, but it's in the realm of possibility)

MeGrimlock78 wrote:Mattel can make preschool DC toys, but McFarlane can make DC collector toys, and Nemcor can make DC blankets (I made that last one up, but it's in the realm of possibility)

More than 1 company is curently making DC collector toys. And we were talking about Star Wars there, not transformers. My point was that several companies making toys of the same franchise by purchasing a licence is not isolated to Japan and can also be done with toys distributed here in the US.

william-james88 wrote:

MeGrimlock78 wrote:Mattel can make preschool DC toys, but McFarlane can make DC collector toys, and Nemcor can make DC blankets (I made that last one up, but it's in the realm of possibility)

More than 1 company is curently making DC collector toys. And we were talking about Star Wars there, not transformers. My point was that several companies making toys of the same franchise by purchasing a licence is not isolated to Japan and can also be done with toys distributed here in the US.

Also, a reminder. If were's talking about Transformers toys only, there's a few. If we conveniently ignore the "non-transforming" rule for non products, there's 3-Zero, Super-7, Flames Toys, and many others. As for merch, there's too many to count.
So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

My apologies for sending this a bit out of control . Basically I was just curious if anyone knew how fans in Japan would be able to back non Transformers related Haslab Projects (Marvel, Star Wars). Or if they just simply were unable to? I figured since TT didn't distribute Hasbro SW or Marvel Toys in Japan ( Maybe they do though..) , that they'd have to use another means.

But still,. I'm glad we got VS, and happy that all the backers are seemingly counted now.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

In that case, Transformers are special because there's no Third Party non-official G.I Joe, My Little Pony, Star Wars, MOTU, Ghostbusters, and so on and so forth.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

In that case, Transformers are special because there's no Third Party non-official G.I Joe, My Little Pony, Star Wars, MOTU, Ghostbusters, and so on and so forth.

Also, Hasbro owns Transformers whereas Disney owns Star Wars and Marvel, Warner owns DC...Hasbro is unique because they own the characters, not just the rites to make toys of the characters.

And just unique in the examples given...

I like 3rd party, but I wouldn't count them as TFs. Because they just aren't.

I can kinda see why Hasbro would license out TF characters to some companies. If the product they make is for a drastically different audience and not something they'd ever consider making, then I suppose there's no harm in their eyes.

Don't forget that Transformers is the opposite of things like Star Wars, Marvel, and DC since it's a toy brand owned by a toy company that has media companies make media to advertise the toys.

Whereas Star Wars, Marvel, and DC are all media properties owned by media companies that license out to toy companies the rights to make toys that advertise the media.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

In that case, Transformers are special because there's no Third Party non-official G.I Joe, My Little Pony, Star Wars, MOTU, Ghostbusters, and so on and so forth.

I would argue they are special because there's third party non-official figures made of them. They're SO loved that people criminally desire them AND there's a viable legitimate market for that criminality.

o.supreme wrote:But still,. I'm glad we got VS, and happy that all the backers are seemingly counted now.

So am I. This big boost now makes Star Saber more successful money wise than the original objective for Unicron.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Also, a reminder. If were's talking about Transformers toys only, there's a few. If we conveniently ignore the "non-transforming" rule for non products, there's 3-Zero, Super-7, Flames Toys, and many others. As for merch, there's too many to count.
So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

Entirely true for Hasbro, but not for Takara Tomy. They seem to make exceptions when they turn into something unusual (Transformer pens from Sentinel, transforming Bearbricks) or partsform (Kabaiya candy toy models). We almost got a large Transforming exosuit from CMs Corp, but then they went out of business so that never happened (probably for the best, they're stuff was riddled with poor quality control).

Anyway, I bought a second Victory Saber not to resell but because if anything happened to the first one I wanted to have a backup since it would be ridiculously hard to replace at a decent price.

Emerje

sol magnus wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

In that case, Transformers are special because there's no Third Party non-official G.I Joe, My Little Pony, Star Wars, MOTU, Ghostbusters, and so on and so forth.

I would argue they are special because there's third party non-official figures made of them. They're SO loved that people criminally desire them AND there's a viable legitimate market for that criminality.

Man now you got me scared the cops are gonna raid my house because I own a Unique Toys Peru Kill.

william-james88 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Transformers aren't that special. Especially if we cheat and count Third Party's non-official things.

But you don't, because they're not Transformers or licensed Transformers material.

In that case, Transformers are special because there's no Third Party non-official G.I Joe, My Little Pony, Star Wars, MOTU, Ghostbusters, and so on and so forth.

I would argue they are special because there's third party non-official figures made of them. They're SO loved that people criminally desire them AND there's a viable legitimate market for that criminality.

Man now you got me scared the cops are gonna raid my house because I own a Unique Toys Peru Kill.

They would be arresting me too, then. I still have a MMC Overlord.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can kinda see why Hasbro would license out TF characters to some companies. If the product they make is for a drastically different audience and not something they'd ever consider making, then I suppose there's no harm in their eyes.

Not only that, their designers are employed for specific reasons, to design toys. If they were to produce their own lunchboxes or other non-transforming lines then they'd have to employ a bunch of other people. It probably is more cost effective for them to license out things to companies that specialise in particular products while they keep to their core products.

Burn wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can kinda see why Hasbro would license out TF characters to some companies. If the product they make is for a drastically different audience and not something they'd ever consider making, then I suppose there's no harm in their eyes.

Not only that, their designers are employed for specific reasons, to design toys. If they were to produce their own lunchboxes or other non-transforming lines then they'd have to employ a bunch of other people. It probably is more cost effective for them to license out things to companies that specialise in particular products while they keep to their core products.

And they get to enjoy the real perks of licensing which is that they never lose money. The people who make the lunch box pay them a fee and in the lunch boxes don't sell, it's their problem, not Hasbro's. After their unsold star wars products made the company take a big hit in 2018, Hasbro chose to go more into licensing by buying up brands (like Power Rangers) and beefing up the brands they own (like Nerf).

I was remembering that call today because that was the time I personally heard Briand Goldner really being stalwart for the Transformer brand.

So, I guess my 20k estimate was actually short. either way, I am super glad that we hit everything and this is in full production. He looks great in all the recent pictures. I am excited

There's a new video on the Victory Saber page, showing the fully colored prototype in almost all modes:

https://cdn.shopify.com/videos/c/vp/5c154515719345f9aaea5d1769a943e8/5c154515719345f9aaea5d1769a943e8.HD-1080p-7.2Mbps.mp4

Just something I wanted to write since I see it go both ways online in the price discussion. Many are saying that this Victory Saber was too expensive for what it was while others are saying you are getting exactly what it would cost at retail if the release was exactly the same (including all tiers).

Both statements are simultaneously right and wrong.

Here is the only truth we have regarding the price:

This is the price Hasbro was comfortable asking for with this limited release of a fully new mold.

I am 100% certain that if there were 100 000 made, the price would be lower. So, sure those saying it costs more than it would at retail are right. In the end, we are getting a toy that would probably have instead sold as a commander (Star Saber) and a leader (Victory leo). But, as we see from the final numbers, we got only a quarter (or less) of these toys made than how much would have been made for other retail toys. So the price (higher than retail) includes the limited nature of it, to coutner the cost. So, technically, this toy in its limited nature is worth exactly the price it is (basically, if it would be lower, Hasbro would have charged less).

It's very similar to 3p toys in that way. The Iron Factory Scout Class DJD toys would be a lot less than $30 a piece if they were made in the same quantities as the average Hasbro Transformer (similarly complex/sized Core class Optimus is 1/3 the price). I don't think I ever heard a complaint about 3p toys costing too much, everyone just accepts it. The response to this Victory Saber in terms of it being too expensive is simply people who are not accustomed to the lack of economies of scale.

Anyways that's all I wanted to say about this.

Very well said. . I agree completely. Of course everyone has their price Limits. Unicron was I *think* personally just a little too expensive, but again it was Hasbro that made the determination. Still, even if it were say $500 (after taxes & shipping) *my personal value of the toy*, I still would not have been able to back it.

SS & VL combined as VS are characters I've wanted for a long time. General Retail would have been awesome, but Haslab is the next best thing. It was about the threshold of my acceptable price, but admittedly I've spent more money on less, so in that respect, it actually felt pretty good to back this project. I'd much rather see continued Haslab projects like this, than the former TFSS and BotCon exclusives that were, by comparison, even more expensive.

o.supreme wrote: I'd much rather see continued Haslab projects like this, than the former TFSS and BotCon exclusives that were, by comparison, even more expensive.

And those werent even new molds, ever. So people were literally paying more for less (compared to Haslab). But that again shows the disparity of prices when something lacks economies of scale.

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote: I'd much rather see continued Haslab projects like this, than the former TFSS and BotCon exclusives that were, by comparison, even more expensive.

And those werent even new molds, ever. So people were literally paying more for less (compared to Haslab). But that again shows the disparity of prices when something lacks economies of scale.

Exactly. I mean I'm not sure how much the occasional new head tool costs, but producing them anywhere in quantities of 2K to maybe 12K at the most, I understand why it might cost a little more, but the Haslab route is by far the better deal.