Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Nemesis_Apoc wrote:

TheForgottenTaxi wrote:While we're on the topic of the dubious journalism on display here... why do we think this is true?

The only source cited in the article is "Seibertronian Calidus." Forgive me if the regulars around here know but... who's that? What is the source of their credibility? Has any official representative from Hasbro or Zeta been contacted, or has either company released any kind of statement?

It seems pretty irresponsible to post this on the frontpage if it's as thin as it appears.

You're absolutely right. There is no proof. There are no sources. It's just the word of one blindly loyal brand worshiper trying to stir up a hornets nest.

After 250 stories since May this is the first time I think you've commented on anything I've done so either a) thanks for being a rabid reader of mine and have only now taken the time to comment on my writing style, or b) thanks for being somebody who doesn't really appear often but took the time and made sure I knew how moved (to action, to the bathroom, or otherwise) they were by my story.

Either way I thank you sir or madame!

Ironhidensh wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:If anyone has an issue with the story, please contact ryan@seibertron.com to voice your concerns.

Don't attack my staff.

On that note, let me just say, as a big 3rd party guy, I thought Stargraves article was fine. Yeah, he promoted Haslabicron a bit, but I didn’t read that as loyalist shilling. I read it as somebody very excited and passionate about their hobby.

If you can’t get behind that, then what the hell are you doing here?

Yeah I'm just a nut who loves writing about Transformers...while reading them aloud in my Optimus Prime impression as I write, through my Optimus Prime helmet, which yes I wear when I write my articles. In between rounds of Earth Wars. Okokok, I, have what some might call a problem I'm kidding but Irondhidensh makes a good point you know I'm just a nut for these little guys I always have been. And I totally get why 3P fans love 3P products I really do get all your points of view.

I love writing for fellow Transformers fans though and I would NEVER intentionally try to steer this fan (under)base wrong. I promise you that.

Honestly though, between you and me how much does this shilling pay? Does that come with health insurance or...?

Stargrave wrote: between you and me how much does this shilling pay? Does that come with health insurance or...?

Ive heard the pay is okay, but no insurance, and you have to move to Australia, live with Burn, and fight a kangaroo.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Stargrave wrote: between you and me how much does this shilling pay? Does that come with health insurance or...?

Ive heard the pay is okay, but no insurance, and you have to move to Australia, live with Burn, and fight a kangaroo.

Great it’s like Burn’s Thor and I’m not-Thor.

leokearon wrote:Personally if someone was stealing my IP I would go after them. Still I think Zeta was foolish to announce a Unicron toy while the crowdfunding was still going.

Wireless_Phantom wrote:Trying to compete with Hasbro directly was a big mistake for Zeta. It would have been better if they waited until after it was finished to announce it (especially if it failed)

Maybe they were ready to announce at the expected end of the campaign and then the extension caught them by surprise.

Plutoniumboss wrote:

leokearon wrote:Personally if someone was stealing my IP I would go after them. Still I think Zeta was foolish to announce a Unicron toy while the crowdfunding was still going.

Wireless_Phantom wrote:Trying to compete with Hasbro directly was a big mistake for Zeta. It would have been better if they waited until after it was finished to announce it (especially if it failed)

Maybe they were ready to announce at the expected end of the campaign and then the extension caught them by surprise.

That was my guess too, but according what other people have been saying, Zeta may have been planning this all along.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:Said stuff ...

Said some other stuff ...

YouTube wouldn't take down the video because of some "fan" requests or misrepresentation. That's not how this works. If Youtube says it's because of something Hasbro requested, it's because Hasbro requested it. If you've ever dealt with this stuff with dealing with legal stuff with Youtube, ebay, Amazon, etc, they make it extremely difficult to just get things "removed". You have to go through the proper channels, they have to determine if you have a legit claim, and so on. It's a lot of work to get stuff removed. I've dealt with it a lot over the past 15 years with people using my photos elsewhere, without my permission, which originated from Seibertron.com. It's a lot of work, due diligence and persistence to get content removed. Those companies make you jump through a lot of hoops to makes those requests initially.

My assumption is if there's anything worse than 3rd party violations that Hasbro dislikes, it'd be people or other entities falsely representing them in a legal manner or making false claims on behalf of the company. Again, my words and my assumption, but I can't imagine that'd fly with Hasbro. Think about the implications of online companies allowing people to say they work for a company without any validation process. It'd truly be the wild west online. Whoever reported the problem to Youtube had to be an approved representative or was able to provide appropriate documentation. Someone from Hasbro's legal department surely must deal with things of this sort regularly with all of their brands on sites like YouTube, ebay, etc.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

Technically, nobody writing here can be called a professional since none of us are paid. You have your own opinions anyway so I don't see how anything changes. Also, it's a fan site.

william-james88 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

Technically, nobody writing here can be called a professional since none of us are paid. You have your own opinions anyway so I don't see how anything changes. Also, it's a fan site.

WAIT.

This is a fan site for TRANSFORMERS?

What have I been doing all these years??

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

You're on the wrong Transformers fan site if you think Seibertron.com is here to show objectivity to 3rd party products. Those products are flat out wrong. They shouldn't be made. They shouldn't exist. You do not have a right to those products just because Hasbro is not making them or isn't making them in the way that you think they should be made. If you can justify 3rd party products, you're without a doubt on the wrong side of the fence. Disillusion yourselves and justify it all that you want, but it's flat out wrong.

What is most bafflingly is the short sightedness that 3rd party supporters have for the long term longevity of this brand and the damage that 3rd party does to the official brand and to Hasbro and Takara Tomy. I'm in this hobby for the long haul. I've been collecting since 1984. Never stopped. It has been my passion for all but the first 7 years of my life. This site is here because of my passion. I dread the moment thinking about this fandom and the Transformers brand ultimately being destroyed because of the long term damage 3rd party products does to both. The more 3rd party takes over the fandom, the closer the brand is to ultimately failing.

3rd party products are like a quick fix drug. Yah, you are getting what you want right then, you get your high, you get your fix, but little to no thought goes into the damage that the quick fix causes long term. If you want to see this brand continue long past the time of the current Transformers brand team and shareholders interest, think about what is best for the Transformers brand before you buy your next 3rd party product.

For me life is too short to wait for Hasbro to v2.0 or v3.0 all the MPs we have already had. Picked up MP01 a decade ago and still waiting for countless S1 characters.. yeah, no thanks.

The prices of the newest releases are also absolutely crackers - £550 for v3 prime, bee and hound? It's been said before on here but trying to talk to your kids about being responsible with money after dropping that, well I'd struggle to keep a straight face.

That being said at least hound is a new figure.. but £130, ARG.

PadForce wrote:For me life is too short to wait for Hasbro to v2.0 or v3.0 all the MPs we have already had. Picked up MP01 a decade ago and still waiting for countless S1 characters.. yeah, no thanks.

How about the guy that's waiting for a million dollars to fall in to his lap (like most of us, I'm sure) but hasn't gotten it yet? Should he just go rob a bank to get what he wants? Just because Hasbro or Takara Tomy hasn't made it yet, doesn't mean you should get it or have a right to it. That's probably the worst justification that I ever hear about 3rd party products.

I've never said I have a right to it,but there is demand, and companies are satisfying that demand, including to me. I thank them for filling my cabinet.

Randomhero wrote: You’ve opened a Pandora’s box and tossed it on the front page of one of the biggest transformers fans sites all based on your theory and opinion of something that has zero backing

I mean look at the responses here from this. Also this site doesn’t cover news on 3rd parties.

The site covers news on Hasbro and its Transformers IP. The zeta video is no longer available on youtube due to copyright by Hasbro. So not only do we have your proof right there but also news since it relates to a copyright of the IP we cover here. Basically, Hasbro in its official capacity is mentionned as the reason for taking down a 3rd party product's video.

PadForce wrote:I've never said I have a right to it,but there is demand, and companies are satisfying that demand, including to me. I thank them for filling my cabinet.

Just because there's a demand, doesn't mean that another company can come along and make their own products using the intellectual property of another company. The only reason people are buying 3rd party products is because it looks like the character Hasbro owns, so intellectual property absolutely comes into this.

But hey, whatever let's you sleep at night. As long as you're happy, right? As long as you get what you want, the rest doesn't matter? Is that how it works?

Seibertron wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

You're on the wrong Transformers fan site if you think Seibertron.com is here to show objectivity to 3rd party products. Those products are flat out wrong. They shouldn't be made. They shouldn't exist. You do not have a right to those products just because Hasbro is not making them or isn't making them in the way that you think they should be made. If you can justify 3rd party products, you're without a doubt on the wrong side of the fence. Disillusion yourselves and justify it all that you want, but it's flat out wrong.

What is most bafflingly is the short sightedness that 3rd party supporters have for the long term longevity of this brand and the damage that 3rd party does to the official brand and to Hasbro and Takara Tomy. I'm in this hobby for the long haul. I've been collecting since 1984. Never stopped. It has been my passion for all but the first 7 years of my life. This site is here because of my passion. I dread the moment thinking about this fandom and the Transformers brand ultimately being destroyed because of the long term damage 3rd party products does to both. The more 3rd party takes over the fandom, the closer the brand is to ultimately failing.

3rd party products are like a quick fix drug. Yah, you are getting what you want right then, you get your high, you get your fix, but little to no thought goes into the damage that the quick fix causes long term. If you want to see this brand continue long past the time of the current Transformers brand team and shareholders interest, think about what is best for the Transformers brand before you buy your next 3rd party product.

I wish I had something more eloquent to say than 'yeah, what he said' but yeah, what he said kind of sums it up for me. And that is why I write for Seibertron specifically and not another site. It's why I've been a fan of Seibertron for years.

If that's being a shill then I didn't realize there was a negative name for it. But I get that point of view I can get like that over other things in my own life I do see what you mean. But I'm not going to change either. That's just me.

It's tough just Hasbro is kind of like the sports team with all my favorite players. All these robots I've surrounded my life with all have Hasbro stamped on their foot or their posterior. But I also don't close my mind to the appeal of 3P products or fans of that stuff. Because that interest is there for the same reason I'm here.

I am a fan first, so are we all. And my exuberance and writing style, it just comes from a place of love for this stuff. I love writing but I'm not a professional. I love Transformer news but I don't have a rolodex of connections and a degree on a wall in journalism. Cripes I hope I never come off like that kind of guy.

I felt like after a day of reading so many negative comments on line directed my way specifically I wanted to just say that stuff, and say it here because it matters more here than out there.

Because we're not here for damned stamps or Gobots or Convertors ok they’re cool too I love Gobots and Convertors just at the end of the day thank Primus you're all Transformers fans

Seibertron wrote:

PadForce wrote:I've never said I have a right to it,but there is demand, and companies are satisfying that demand, including to me. I thank them for filling my cabinet.

Just because there's a demand, doesn't mean that another company can come along and make their own products using the intellectual property of another company. The only reason people are buying 3rd party products is because it looks like the character Hasbro owns, so intellectual property absolutely comes into this.

But hey, whatever let's you sleep at night. As long as you're happy, right? As long as you get what you want, the rest doesn't matter?

Well Hastak are free to make money out of their IP by actually producing the products that people want. They are currently not doing that, so yes 3rd party companies have jumped on it.

The sheer number of 3p companies should illustrate the scale of the demand resulting from how slowly the official products have come out - people were originally even paying higher prices to the 3p companies so that's another flag.

For whatever reason Hastak have chosen not to meet demand, and thats their game. Life - companies make their choices from a business point of view, and consumers react to that. This is the situation you have now.

So as per your last paragraph, exactly

Seibertron wrote:But hey, whatever let's you sleep at night. As long as you're happy, right? As long as you get what you want, the rest doesn't matter? Is that how it works?

I'm pretty much Hasbro/Takara only for my bot collection, but is it wrong for me to like a few 3rd party accessories that are made to work with genuine Hasbro/Takara bots?

EunuchRon wrote:

Seibertron wrote:But hey, whatever let's you sleep at night. As long as you're happy, right? As long as you get what you want, the rest doesn't matter? Is that how it works?

I'm pretty much Hasbro/Takara only for my bot collection, but is it wrong for me to like a few 3rd party accessories that are made to work with genuine Hasbro/Takara bots?

My fav is the DNA upgrades for CW devastator. I'd like some articulated hands for predaking, but not interested in the rest of the stuff in his upgrade package.

None of the arguments for it being "okay" for third party rip-offs (and that's what they are) of Transformers products and characters hold any water if you simply think for one moment "what if I were Hasbro/Takara-Tomy and Transformers was my intellectual property?" If you think you answer is "I wouldn't care about third parties stealing my ideas for profit," then you're lying to yourself.

That sucks. I was going to get both.

EunuchRon wrote:

Seibertron wrote:But hey, whatever let's you sleep at night. As long as you're happy, right? As long as you get what you want, the rest doesn't matter? Is that how it works?

I'm pretty much Hasbro/Takara only for my bot collection, but is it wrong for me to like a few 3rd party accessories that are made to work with genuine Hasbro/Takara bots?

Just to clarify: that's a different subject. In the world outside of Transformers, I compare 3rd party accessories to the after-market car accessory world. You still have to buy that Jeep Wrangler to add that after market kit or special wheels to your car or you have to buy that sports coupe that didn't come with the sunroof that you wanted but you add the 3rd party sunroof to your car. Same difference with Transformers toys. As long as you have to buy the official product in order for that accessory to be of use, then I think it's fair game.

What you don't see happening is companies making Not-Corvettes, not Porsche-911s, etc. The car manufacturers have aggressively gone after companies that have tried to do that.

PadForce wrote:
Well Hastak are free to make money out of their IP by actually producing the products that people want. They are currently not doing that, so yes 3rd party companies have jumped on it.

The sheer number of 3p companies should illustrate the scale of the demand resulting from how slowly the official products have come out - people were originally even paying higher prices to the 3p companies so that's another flag.

For whatever reason Hastak have chosen not to meet demand, and thats their game. Life - companies make their choices from a business point of view, and consumers react to that. This is the situation you have now.

So as per your last paragraph, exactly

The only reason Third party companies can meet your demands for Masterpiece style figures is because that's the only thing they make basically (at least where Transformers are concerned), sure a few make more chug/Generations like designs but those don't happen as often.

Hasbro can't just drop what their currently doing to speed up production of MP's, they have to deal with making toys and entertainment media for not only the Transformers brand but all the different franchises and brands they own or are allowed to make products for.

Masterpiece Transformer are a niche market that's aimed to a relatively small demographic.

It does indeed suck that Masterpiece figures have a slow release schedule but I don't think that suddenly makes what third party companies do right when it comes to directly using the likeness of the characters that Hasbro owns to make a profit.

I personally don't have the same view towards those who make accessories to official product, I think in the case to those who make weapons or gap filler type packs they aren't selling a product that works on it's own but requires one to buy an official Hasbro/Takara product to get your uses out of them which in this case supports Hasbro.

As for the speed issue, don't forget 3rd party products don't have to adhere to things like "drop tests" or "choking hazards" or other things that need to be tested vigorously. They get to take shortcuts without any repercussions other than simply trying to churn a profit.

Seibertron wrote:As for the speed issue, don't forget 3rd party products don't have to adhere to things like "drop tests" or "choking hazards" or other things that need to be tested vigorously. They get to take shortcuts without any repercussions other than simply trying to churn a profit.

That and most of the time those companies don't make any other kind of product, they don't make Generations style or the more child aimed figures.

That gives them the time and resources to focus more on the Masterpiece style stuff.