The Energon Pub

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots.

Yeah apart from the wrong placement of the cannon and the bad mask gimmick on Galvatron that limits movement, is undersized, and overall doesn't look good and then the dinobots being too small and with all of them having compromised alt modes. For the record I own all these figures and I like them in their own ways but to say that there is nothing wrong with them is a complete exaggeration.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots.

Yeah apart from the wrong placement of the cannon and the bad mask gimmick on Galvatron that limits movement, is undersized, and overall doesn't look good and then the dinobots being too small and with all of them having compromised alt modes. For the record I own all these figures and I like them in their own ways but to say that there is nothing wrong with them is a complete exaggeration.

Okay, I'll give you Galvatron's robot mode cannon position (not that that has anything to do with the gimmick, mind you) and to a degree the mask gimmick limiting head movement (because the spring carriage is too fat). But it is MOT undersize and IMO looks fine. As does Galvatron himself.

As for what you said about the Dinobots...
1. Grimlock is absolutely NOT too small
2. The others would ideally be bigger, but they're at least not horribly shrunk. And I can see why "Give 5 Voyager slots to one group all of whom have the same color scheme" didn't happen.
3. "Compromised altmodes"? Really? I can maybe see that applying to Grimlock. But the other four? Explain to me what the alleged "compromises" are.

firefox91 wrote:As a backer of HasLab's only other project, Star Wars Jabba's Sail Barge, I wanted to make some comments that directly or incorrectly respond to other things that people have posted.

Yes, funding for this project if met is about 4.6 million dollars. Yes, it's a lot. Yes, Hasbro has that much money to do it themselves. The point of this method is to ensure they make a profit. Because many of the big ticket items collectors claim they want don't get sold through and they take a loss. This is the means to give you what you want without them taking it in the shorts. Meaning, put your money where your mouth is.

Also remember the 4.6mil isn't just for production alone. It's for the design work they already put in to it. Talented people don't work for free.

Better to make 3000 than zero? No, it isn't. They would take a loss on 3000. Remember, they have to pay for factory time. Factories don't want to take small orders. Because it's not just setting up the equipment to produce, it's training the staff on assembly and packaging. If they are setting all that up, they want to do it for a longer run. If you want a small order, they will do it. But then the cost per unit would be at a point that no one would buy? $1000 for Unicron... go! Nope, dead before it starts.

As for the individual cost and time to fund. It's about $600 and you have 6 weeks to come up with that if you don't already have it on hand. That's a lot of time. 2-3 paychecks for most people. If that is a struggle that you need more time for, maybe you shouldn't be buying $600 toys at all. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just being honest. Also keep in mind that $500 Sail Barge now gets $1200 on the secondary market.

Finally, the international market. There will be so much complaining about how Hasbro is screwing those overseas and whatnot. For an establish business, there is so much more to selling overseas than slapping a shipping label on a box. Different taxes, import fees, etc. If funded they actually will make some of these available to overseas buyers. But that won't happen until after they are delivered to the US and Canada customers that pre-ordered.

The Sail Barge project brought the entitlement out in a lot of people and it was ugly. It will happen again here. In the end, Hasbro is a corporation that is in the business of making money. They don't owe anyone anything. So if you are priced out of it or can't pre-order it, that's the breaks. If you don't think it's work the price, don't order.

As for me, I'm on the fence. It's a cool figure but it is a lot for 1 toy. I have the Sail Barge and I love it. But space is at a premium in my collection and this takes a lot of it. Transformers aren't my #1 collectable and I've never been a huge Unicron fan, so I'm kind of on the take it or leave it stance. I'm going to let a few weeks tick by before making my decision. If nothing else I'm sure I could resell it down the road if I changed my mind about owning it.

sol magnus wrote:Looks amazing, but I don't 575 dollars to spend on it.

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots.

Yeah apart from the wrong placement of the cannon and the bad mask gimmick on Galvatron that limits movement, is undersized, and overall doesn't look good and then the dinobots being too small and with all of them having compromised alt modes. For the record I own all these figures and I like them in their own ways but to say that there is nothing wrong with them is a complete exaggeration.

Okay, I'll give you Galvatron's robot mode cannon position (not that that has anything to do with the gimmick, mind you) and to a degree the mask gimmick limiting head movement (because the spring carriage is too fat). But it is MOT undersize and IMO looks fine. As does Galvatron himself.

As for what you said about the Dinobots...
1. Grimlock is absolutely NOT too small
2. The others would ideally be bigger, but they're at least not horribly shrunk. And I can see why "Give 5 Voyager slots to one group all of whom have the same color scheme" didn't happen.
3. "Compromised altmodes"? Really? I can maybe see that applying to Grimlock. But the other four? Explain to me what the alleged "compromises" are.

Slug doesn't have a neck so the head too close to the body, he can't move his head, sludge can't move his head or mouth, swoop is box with wings and the dino face can't lock into the robot head, Grimlock is wearing a diaper and has a super chunky tail with unsightly cut outs for the combiner pegs, snarl once again can't move his head and his tail is just terrible, all of their legs are basic and can barely pose or simply can't pose at all.

Once again, I still like the figures but I'm not going to pretend that these problems don't exist and they probably wouldn't exist if they weren't too small and didn't have to have the combiner gimmick.

firefox91 wrote:
Also remember the 4.6mil isn't just for production alone. It's for the design work they already put in to it. Talented people don't work for free.

Better to make 3000 than zero? No, it isn't. They would take a loss on 3000. Remember, they have to pay for factory time. Factories don't want to take small orders. Because it's not just setting up the equipment to produce, it's training the staff on assembly and packaging. If they are setting all that up, they want to do it for a longer run. If you want a small order, they will do it. But then the cost per unit would be at a point that no one would buy? $1000 for Unicron... go! Nope, dead before it starts.


Finally, the international market. There will be so much complaining about how Hasbro is screwing those overseas and whatnot. For an establish business, there is so much more to selling overseas than slapping a shipping label on a box. Different taxes, import fees, etc. If funded they actually will make some of these available to overseas buyers. But that won't happen until after they are delivered to the US and Canada customers that pre-ordered.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

firefox91 wrote:
Also remember the 4.6mil isn't just for production alone. It's for the design work they already put in to it. Talented people don't work for free.

Better to make 3000 than zero? No, it isn't. They would take a loss on 3000. Remember, they have to pay for factory time. Factories don't want to take small orders. Because it's not just setting up the equipment to produce, it's training the staff on assembly and packaging. If they are setting all that up, they want to do it for a longer run. If you want a small order, they will do it. But then the cost per unit would be at a point that no one would buy? $1000 for Unicron... go! Nope, dead before it starts.


Finally, the international market. There will be so much complaining about how Hasbro is screwing those overseas and whatnot. For an establish business, there is so much more to selling overseas than slapping a shipping label on a box. Different taxes, import fees, etc. If funded they actually will make some of these available to overseas buyers. But that won't happen until after they are delivered to the US and Canada customers that pre-ordered.

I'm sure all that would be perfectly fine and valid if this was Random Joe, making custom pieces from rented factory space through eBay.

However, this is Hasbro aka THE LARGEST TOY MAKER IN THE WORLD.

Hasbro, who already have access to 'Talented people' and 'trained assembly staff' in the hundreds to thousands, around the World. With an established international shipping network, that can move the Next Big Thing to anywhere on the planet, tomorrow, if they needed to. Well versed in the necessary fees and taxes of import and export. Not to mention if this project fails to reach its threshold, they can easily absorb the loss. Just as with any failed single line.

It is naive to doubt the scope of their resources and global reach. The same resource pool that no doubt HasLab still shares undeniable access to.

steals_your_goats wrote:Slug doesn't have a neck so the head too close to the body, he can't move his head, sludge can't move his head or mouth, swoop is box with wings and the dino face can't lock into the robot head, Grimlock is wearing a diaper and has a super chunky tail with unsightly cut outs for the combiner pegs, snarl once again can't move his head and his tail is just terrible, all of their legs are basic and can barely pose or simply can't pose at all.

Once again, I still like the figures but I'm not going to pretend that these problems don't exist and they probably wouldn't exist if they weren't too small and didn't have to have the combiner gimmick.

steals_your_goats wrote:sludge can't move his head or mouth

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I'm sure all that would be perfectly fine and valid if this was Random Joe, making custom pieces from rented factory space through eBay.

However, this is Hasbro aka THE LARGEST TOY MAKER IN THE WORLD.

Hasbro, who already have access to 'Talented people' and 'trained assembly staff' in the hundreds to thousands, around the World. With an established international shipping network, that can move the Next Big Thing to anywhere on the planet, tomorrow, if they needed to. Well versed in the necessary fees and taxes of import and export. Not to mention if this project fails to reach its threshold, they can easily absorb the loss. Just as with any failed single line.

It is naive to doubt the scope of their resources and global reach. The same resource pool that no doubt HasLab still shares undeniable access to.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

firefox91 wrote:
Also remember the 4.6mil isn't just for production alone. It's for the design work they already put in to it. Talented people don't work for free.

Better to make 3000 than zero? No, it isn't. They would take a loss on 3000. Remember, they have to pay for factory time. Factories don't want to take small orders. Because it's not just setting up the equipment to produce, it's training the staff on assembly and packaging. If they are setting all that up, they want to do it for a longer run. If you want a small order, they will do it. But then the cost per unit would be at a point that no one would buy? $1000 for Unicron... go! Nope, dead before it starts.


Finally, the international market. There will be so much complaining about how Hasbro is screwing those overseas and whatnot. For an establish business, there is so much more to selling overseas than slapping a shipping label on a box. Different taxes, import fees, etc. If funded they actually will make some of these available to overseas buyers. But that won't happen until after they are delivered to the US and Canada customers that pre-ordered.

I'm sure all that would be perfectly fine and valid if this was Random Joe, making custom pieces from rented factory space through eBay.

However, this is Hasbro aka THE LARGEST TOY MAKER IN THE WORLD.

Hasbro, who already have access to 'Talented people' and 'trained assembly staff' in the hundreds to thousands, around the World. With an established international shipping network, that can move the Next Big Thing to anywhere on the planet, tomorrow, if they needed to. Well versed in the necessary fees and taxes of import and export. Not to mention if this project fails to reach its threshold, they can easily absorb the loss. Just as with any failed single line.

It is naive to doubt the scope of their resources and global reach. The same resource pool that no doubt HasLab still shares undeniable access to.

They're not going to drop the price. Bitching about it over and over will not change the price. You either pay that much or you don't. Stop trying to justify why you're not getting it. I'm not getting it. I can't afford it. Shitting all over it because you can't get it just makes you look petty.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots.

Yeah apart from the wrong placement of the cannon and the bad mask gimmick on Galvatron that limits movement, is undersized, and overall doesn't look good and then the dinobots being too small and with all of them having compromised alt modes. For the record I own all these figures and I like them in their own ways but to say that there is nothing wrong with them is a complete exaggeration.

Okay, I'll give you Galvatron's robot mode cannon position (not that that has anything to do with the gimmick, mind you) and to a degree the mask gimmick limiting head movement (because the spring carriage is too fat). But it is MOT undersize and IMO looks fine. As does Galvatron himself.

As for what you said about the Dinobots...
1. Grimlock is absolutely NOT too small
2. The others would ideally be bigger, but they're at least not horribly shrunk. And I can see why "Give 5 Voyager slots to one group all of whom have the same color scheme" didn't happen.
3. "Compromised altmodes"? Really? I can maybe see that applying to Grimlock. But the other four? Explain to me what the alleged "compromises" are.

Slug doesn't have a neck so the head too close to the body, he can't move his head, sludge can't move his head or mouth, swoop is box with wings and the dino face can't lock into the robot head, Grimlock is wearing a diaper and has a super chunky tail with unsightly cut outs for the combiner pegs, snarl once again can't move his head and his tail is just terrible, all of their legs are basic and can barely pose or simply can't pose at all.

Once again, I still like the figures but I'm not going to pretend that these problems don't exist and they probably wouldn't exist if they weren't too small and didn't have to have the combiner gimmick.

Let's move this to the Power of the Primes thread, please. No need to argue about non-Siege toys in the Siege thread.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Of which I was doing none of those things

ZeroWolf wrote:

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots.

Yeah apart from the wrong placement of the cannon and the bad mask gimmick on Galvatron that limits movement, is undersized, and overall doesn't look good and then the dinobots being too small and with all of them having compromised alt modes. For the record I own all these figures and I like them in their own ways but to say that there is nothing wrong with them is a complete exaggeration.

Okay, I'll give you Galvatron's robot mode cannon position (not that that has anything to do with the gimmick, mind you) and to a degree the mask gimmick limiting head movement (because the spring carriage is too fat). But it is MOT undersize and IMO looks fine. As does Galvatron himself.

As for what you said about the Dinobots...
1. Grimlock is absolutely NOT too small
2. The others would ideally be bigger, but they're at least not horribly shrunk. And I can see why "Give 5 Voyager slots to one group all of whom have the same color scheme" didn't happen.
3. "Compromised altmodes"? Really? I can maybe see that applying to Grimlock. But the other four? Explain to me what the alleged "compromises" are.

Slug doesn't have a neck so the head too close to the body, he can't move his head, sludge can't move his head or mouth, swoop is box with wings and the dino face can't lock into the robot head, Grimlock is wearing a diaper and has a super chunky tail with unsightly cut outs for the combiner pegs, snarl once again can't move his head and his tail is just terrible, all of their legs are basic and can barely pose or simply can't pose at all.

Once again, I still like the figures but I'm not going to pretend that these problems don't exist and they probably wouldn't exist if they weren't too small and didn't have to have the combiner gimmick.

Let's move this to the Power of the Primes thread, please. No need to argue about non-Siege toys in the Siege thread.

To be fair, this isn't a Siege thread anyway as unicron will debut (if backed) in 2021, during the last part of the War of Cybertron. So he's not Siege specific at all.

steals_your_goats wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Of which I was doing none of those things

Oh wait, you're being serious? Let me rephrase

Literally all you're doing is shitting on it and those who like it. And just in case you're unaware, shitting on something is when all you do is sit and bad mouth a thing on and on. We get it you don't like it and you've said your piece, just move on.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Of which I was doing none of those things

Oh wait, you're being serious? Let me rephrase

Literally all you're doing is shitting on it and those who like it. And just in case you're unaware, shitting on something is when all you do is sit and bad mouth a thing on and on. We get it you don't like it and you've said your piece, just move on.

Still a swing and a miss, I'm afraid. Nevermind, context is in the eye of the beholder in plain text.

I don't support crowdfunding as I've been burned by Kickstarters in the past. End of story. Not quite the "antagonising narrative affront" some have read into what I have said, but it is what it is.

If this were a real release. That would be a different story.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:You do realize this is a real release and if they don't meet the goal, you won't be charged. You're out nothing if it doesn't happen.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:Slug doesn't have a neck so the head too close to the body, he can't move his head, sludge can't move his head or mouth, swoop is box with wings and the dino face can't lock into the robot head, Grimlock is wearing a diaper and has a super chunky tail with unsightly cut outs for the combiner pegs, snarl once again can't move his head and his tail is just terrible, all of their legs are basic and can barely pose or simply can't pose at all.

Once again, I still like the figures but I'm not going to pretend that these problems don't exist and they probably wouldn't exist if they weren't too small and didn't have to have the combiner gimmick.

Where to begin... Ooh, I know!

steals_your_goats wrote:sludge can't move his head or mouth

You're dead wrong on that last part.

As for much of the rest... Allow me to introduce you to some old friends.





A lot of what you listed re: proportions and whatnot results from slavish G1 accuracy, and the chunkiness of the G1 designs. And aside from Snarl's forelegs they've all improved comparatively in beast mode articulation - especially Sludge. Swoop's robot face once again not tabbing in is an oversight that could have happened combiner gimmick or not. The only changes to the limb dinobots made on account of the combiner gimmick were: Replacing the vestigial cockpits (or in Swoop's case his chest landing gear) with combiner pegs, adding the necessary 5mm ports, and making Snarl's beast head one piece instead of splitting.

If Grimlock looks like he's wearing a diaper to you, that's your problem

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Epsilon Delta wrote:

Latebrus-K wrote:You see? Hasbro is DONE forcing new gimmicks onto old characters.

I can only hope so. Looking at you Dinobots and Galvatron.

There is NOTHING wrong with TR Galvatron or] the PotP Dinobots. Or were you perhaps talking about the idiotic "halfassed Earth mode" and "aborted spider tank" gimmicks from Universe Galvatron?

gothsaurus wrote:Am I even in the right thread? You guys need to reel it back in.

Regarding Unicron... having read the description, that's pretty mind blowing that you can rotate the ring around the mouth and all the teeth will open and close in unison. Really nice detail there.

I also noticed there is a battle damage face with eyes broken out. (Hopefully you can remove the head so it can orbit????) Anyway... These are the kind of touches that will make people bite the bullet and buy this thing.

Eyes, mouth, and teeth move on the small head, too. Nice. Very curious to see what other features they reveal.