The Energon Pub

News Credits: 1 · by **Thannak** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:10 pm

noctorro wrote:Wow, huge discussion. Saw it on Instagram of the "takedown".

My opunion (which nobody asks for).

I think Zeta toys made a dirty move.
1. They steal a design from Hasbro
2. They steal a design that's made great (again) by Hasbro
3. They ride on the hype of the HasLab event (even if it isn't crowdfunded and won't be sold)
4. They try to grab real potential buyers (Zeta's design look good and the price is way lower)

That's why I say, let Zeta toys crash and burn.

The "Hasbro shouldn't crowd fund, they are rich" is absolutely not an argument to be bigger than all 4 points stated above.

As said somewhere in this thread. Third Party transformers developers are pirates/IP thieves. It's as simple as that. Without the Transformers 86' movie, Armada Unicron and the character in the comics and Haslab Uberpiece Unicron, Zeta toys would've had nothing. Don't forget that people.

https://www.quora.com/Which-knockoff-pr ... -originals

by **noctorro** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:55 am

Your point?

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:02 am

Yeah Haslab Unicron wasn’t anywhere on that list I don’t get it.

News Credits: 331 · by **chuckdawg1999** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 am

Stargrave wrote:I love this:

I wish that was a shirt

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:30 am

Maybe Hasbro should announce it as the next incentive.

You know ... instead of staying so bloody quiet.

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:36 am

Its available here:
https://shirtoid.com/155510/visit-unicron/
Along with other cool Unicron shirts.

But I agree Hasbro’s very quiet and with how fast the last two weeks went the next three are gonna fly by.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:44 am

Thannak wrote:https://www.quora.com/Which-knockoff-products-are-superior-in-quality-to-the-originals

noctorro wrote:Your point?

Stargrave wrote:Yeah Haslab Unicron wasn’t anywhere on that list I don’t get it.

I think the point the OP is trying to make is just because HasLab Unicron was done by the official owner, Zeta Toys' Core Star isn't automatically "worse" despite being arguably the first started/announced with the head reveal back in July. I will say that the "whichever came first" argument is a deceptive one when it comes to legal, especially with the examples from back in the day being from a time when copyright laws were much more lax compared to today (thank you Disney!).

News Credits: 1 · by **Regimus Prime** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:45 am

Seibertron wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

You're on the wrong Transformers fan site if you think Seibertron.com is here to show objectivity to 3rd party products. Those products are flat out wrong. They shouldn't be made. They shouldn't exist. You do not have a right to those products just because Hasbro is not making them or isn't making them in the way that you think they should be made. If you can justify 3rd party products, you're without a doubt on the wrong side of the fence. Disillusion yourselves and justify it all that you want, but it's flat out wrong.

What is most bafflingly is the short sightedness that 3rd party supporters have for the long term longevity of this brand and the damage that 3rd party does to the official brand and to Hasbro and Takara Tomy. I'm in this hobby for the long haul. I've been collecting since 1984. Never stopped. It has been my passion for all but the first 7 years of my life. This site is here because of my passion. I dread the moment thinking about this fandom and the Transformers brand ultimately being destroyed because of the long term damage 3rd party products does to both. The more 3rd party takes over the fandom, the closer the brand is to ultimately failing.

3rd party products are like a quick fix drug. Yah, you are getting what you want right then, you get your high, you get your fix, but little to no thought goes into the damage that the quick fix causes long term. If you want to see this brand continue long past the time of the current Transformers brand team and shareholders interest, think about what is best for the Transformers brand before you buy your next 3rd party product.

AGREED Brother. It's like I was saying before, I love collecting Jordan's. There are plenty of times that Brand Jordan releases retros that aren't the year or color way that I want. That doesn't mean I head out to the nearest bootlegger because they make a great quality knock off. That's unheard of in the Sneakerhead Community. It's laughable, It's an insult to the brand and more importantly the fans. I've never heard of this type of ""Fight the Power", "Rage Against The Machine" because their not producing the figures I want at the price point I want" attitude in any other fandom like Star Wars or G.I. Joe unless I've missed something. I've heard of maybe 3rd party accessories, which is probably how we got on this slippery slope in the first place. But Primus look how far we've fallen. It's one thing to like what you like and be a "I'll buy a bootleg "fan", but don't bash a fan site for supporting the official brand/product producer.

News Credits: 19 · by **blackeyedprime** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:07 am

Long term harm equals very little. Very high chance of Increasing chances of buying official products if they have a third party product anyhoos to go with the range etc.

Ps1s sold really well, it had a chip in it from the start by Sony that allowed pirated games to be played. Nintendo ds same boat, people still buy official product regardless (hardware units) other games that are must haves and ultimately the next products.

I can't buy a pirated game on amazon. I can however buy parodies and tributes or third party robots.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:17 am

I don't think the games analogy quite works as the ds and ps1 and ps3 & 4 are Region free, meaning you can import games that wouldn't see release otherwise. Sony tried to clamp down on pirated games several times

by **noctorro** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:55 am

bvzxa wrote:Being a longtime member here the hate for 3P is real. I suspect it's money and people's attitudes towards products that are made better than the company that makes them.

Most of the arguments against 3P are whiners who feel a loyalty to Hasbro. Funny thing is 3P solved problems that Hasbro did not address despite listening to the fans who asked.

Fansprojects started it all and from there we got other companies to come in. CHUG has by official standards at least 2 to three different molds for the same character but for those who collect MP, they may have to wait a long time to get a complete '84/'85 cast if you wait on HasTaks scale. 3P is helping MP since to second redesign with MP-10. So from 2012 thru 2019 we have a imcomplete 84/85 cast and it's been 7 years. CHUG has already had officlly the whole 84/85 cast including Combiners, Headmasters, and Targetmasters (Takara) in the CHUG line and now Siege is giving us a new line of the figures we want. MP collectors have no choice to go 3P because it may be a decade before we get even triple changers now that we are diving into Beast Wars.

I dont see a level headed argument I see vitirol from long-time standing members who have personal angst against 3P. IDW collectos got MMC. FoC collectors got Planet X. So 3P is there and if it were truly an issue 3P would have been stopped back in 2010 when Fansproject released Defender aka a true triple changing Springer.

We also know before the shill to a certain point both Official and Thrid Party existed in the same threads here. The thing is if you want Hasbro to go after 3P write letters and send emails and include your tears and horror stories too

Wow, whiners, shills, poor collectors, tears, vitriol . Wow.

Man you really love third party companies don't you.

What's your argument for the stealing of designs and the making of demand (cartoons, movies, games)?

by **noctorro** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:06 am

Seibertron wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
TheForgottenTaxi wrote:Kinda shocked at the unabashed bias in Seibertron's writeup. Maybe it's silly of me to expect a toy fan site to separate its opinion and news content, but dang.

Agreed. I would have thought it more professional to have a little more objectivity, in coverage of a given article. Instead of something that reads like smug, gloating fanboy

You're on the wrong Transformers fan site if you think Seibertron.com is here to show objectivity to 3rd party products. Those products are flat out wrong. They shouldn't be made. They shouldn't exist. You do not have a right to those products just because Hasbro is not making them or isn't making them in the way that you think they should be made. If you can justify 3rd party products, you're without a doubt on the wrong side of the fence. Disillusion yourselves and justify it all that you want, but it's flat out wrong.

What is most bafflingly is the short sightedness that 3rd party supporters have for the long term longevity of this brand and the damage that 3rd party does to the official brand and to Hasbro and Takara Tomy. I'm in this hobby for the long haul. I've been collecting since 1984. Never stopped. It has been my passion for all but the first 7 years of my life. This site is here because of my passion. I dread the moment thinking about this fandom and the Transformers brand ultimately being destroyed because of the long term damage 3rd party products does to both. The more 3rd party takes over the fandom, the closer the brand is to ultimately failing.

3rd party products are like a quick fix drug. Yah, you are getting what you want right then, you get your high, you get your fix, but little to no thought goes into the damage that the quick fix causes long term. If you want to see this brand continue long past the time of the current Transformers brand team and shareholders interest, think about what is best for the Transformers brand before you buy your next 3rd party product.

Wow, I absolutely agree. I love Hasbro/Takara and love what they brought me with Transformers. Sure I was hoping for G1 designs during the Unicron Trilogy and I wish Classics Ironhide was better but now we have Siege Ironhide. I simply have to be patient, wanted a new Shockwave for a long time, Energon had weird arms, almost there. And than we got Battalion and like 5 Cyberverse variants. A small FOC Shockwave and now Siege Shockwave and Masterpiece.

In my eye, 3 parties are just stealing designs and love that people have for those characters made and owned by Hasbro/Takara. They don't design anytying themselves, they don't produce cartoons to get people hyped for their own designs. They steal what somebody else made and steal a bit of the market with it. Sure 3P is small compared, but there will be a point where Hasbro/Takara needs to shrink > Less Media > Less toys > brand dies.

As stated, getting 3p stuff is a quick fix.

MyFigureCollection.net collection · by **Emerje** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:29 am

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't think the games analogy quite works as the ds and ps1 and ps3 & 4 are Region free, meaning you can import games that wouldn't see release otherwise. Sony tried to clamp down on pirated games several times

Not to mention pirated games aren't really the same as KO Transformers since they're generally ripped from a disc effortlessly and distributed for free. A better comparison would be unofficial game "clones" or remakes using IP protected franchises like Mario or Pokemon, something that Nintendo fiercely goes after with an army of lawyers making it still a poor analogy.

Just a little reminder that it wasn't just Pulse that extended the deadline for Unicron so we should see another boost from online shops and Takara Tomy Mall (they've extended to 10/4 which is effectively 10/3 in North America).

Emerje

by **noctorro** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:46 am

Thannak wrote:One of the things I credited to Hasbro is the fact they competed with third parties rather than wielding the power of attorney to simply destroy competition. .

This argument annoyes me.

Competition isn't stealing somebody else's design and just improving on that and stealing away the market/demand for that product. Hasbro is doing more than only Masterpiece and if you want something wait for it or don't get it at all.

Competition is making an original IP Say Transmorphers and have Rachetto Mega a Mexican robot truck be the leader of the Freedombots to compete with Optimus Prime, Leader of the Autobots. (and of course see how that rolls

That's still a bit close to stealing I think. But it's something different.

Do you see Third Party companies doing that? And making their own cartoons, games and movies to create hype, fandoms and demand?
Nope, why not? Because then they have to do the legwork, they just want the top, the profit and they will not work for it.

--------------------

Sorry for going so horribly offtopic.

Ontopic: I do hop this gets backed. Even tough I whined about Unicron not having a base mode (which would be strange anyway) I do see myself getting this bad boy at some point even for 700 euro's (about 12000 dollars or something). And I do agree it overpriced like hell and he should come with newly designed Unicron scout/deluxe minions who can be put in the arms/legs as storage. Still he looks cool!

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:49 am

Short of Hasbro making an official announcement or something, I think it's time we let this 3P discussion die off. Let's get it back to Unicron...not that there's much happening.

News Credits: 10 · by **sol magnus** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:02 am

Burn wrote:Short of Hasbro making an official announcement or something, I think it's time we let this 3P discussion die off. Let's get it back to Unicron...not that there's much happening.

Or..."Proceed. On your way to oblivion".

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:42 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the Wiki doesn't have this notice before long with the HasLab figure...

Hasbro have been suspiciously quiet on this whole thing.

News Credits: 10 · by **sol magnus** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:48 am

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Wiki doesn't have this notice before long with the HasLab figure...

Hasbro have been suspiciously quiet on this whole thing.

Possibly. But, then again, possibly not.

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:32 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Thannak wrote:https://www.quora.com/Which-knockoff-products-are-superior-in-quality-to-the-originals

noctorro wrote:Your point?
Stargrave wrote:Yeah Haslab Unicron wasn’t anywhere on that list I don’t get it.

I think the point the OP is trying to make is just because HasLab Unicron was done by the official owner, Zeta Toys' Core Star isn't automatically "worse" despite being arguably the first started/announced with the head reveal back in July. I will say that the "whichever came first" argument is a deceptive one when it comes to legal, especially with the examples from back in the day being from a time when copyright laws were much more lax compared to today (thank you Disney!).

Oh no I got it JelZe that was just the only funny response I could think of since I thought it was, well, funny and it didn’t make sense :lol:

I need to remember to stick to my lol’s for tone ;)^

Oh, uh, and HappyTuesdayAllHailTheDarkLordUnicron, hallelujah amen. :michaelbay:

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:34 am

So ‘86 Unicron, Armada Unicron, and IDW Unicron walk into a bar....

Ok that’s all I’ve got so far I’m still trying to wrap my head around the concept of a bar that big...

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:37 am

We are gathered here to discuss HasLab Unicron on this, the day of the G1 cartoon's 35th anniversary.

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:40 am

Sabrblade wrote:We are gathered here to discuss HasLab Unicron on this, the day of the G1 cartoon's 35th anniversary.

Good call! It’s Transformers Christmas.

I was thinking of newsing something about that later give me some Unicron memories and any ‘84 memories you have. Cripes what a formative two years of my childhood. I was like...carry the four, exponent Jniner, I was like 6-8. Thanks to Transformers that still feels like yesterday.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:13 pm

Sabrblade wrote:We are gathered here to discuss HasLab Unicron on this, the day of the G1 cartoon's 35th anniversary.

Seemed apt for the quote...

by **EunuchRon** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:00 pm

Burn wrote:Short of Hasbro making an official announcement or something, I think it's time we let this 3P discussion die off. Let's get it back to Unicron...not that there's much happening.

Not much happening?

https://gizmodo.com/we-now-have-an-imag ... 1838142893

How can we be sure that it's not The Big U Himself coming to eat us? :shock:

News Credits: 340 · by **Stargrave** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:10 am

I can't wait for the time when someone, either Hasbro or a fan who gets their Unicron, does a stop motion of the transformation. I can't wait to see this thing in more dynamic poses and how he does with the weight on his feet in like an open legged or forward stepping stance.

Just random Unicron on the brain thoughts as usual.