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That's awesome. I wouldn't mind an entire spinoff series or franchise centered around Caminus and its inhabitors. Instead of just Cybertron all the time. Don't get me wrong, Cybertron is badass. But more aliens is always good. Especially since they're still Transformers, technically. They wouldn't even need to change the name.

ThatOneMoose wrote:

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh and also, maybe, may I interject, I totally want a bioshock-y Transformers game based of the IDW G1 continuity. It should follow Alpha Bravo.

And Barral Roll so we could have Co-op

I've begun to read IDW and am not too far in yet to phase two. Can you guys explain (spoiler-free please) why alpha bravo's such a b@d@$$? Just curious and want to be in on what everyone else is in on.

There's no way to explain it without spoilers. Buuuuuuuut because he's not really a major character and dosen't matter, Slingshot dies horribly near the end of the first run of Robots in disguise, before Dark Cybertron. Alpha Bravo takes the mantle left behind by him.

Caelus wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Caelus wrote:Great post of great things.

You and your partner have a good set of minds, right there!

Thank you

Va'al wrote:EDIT: Also, I'd really like for the underwhelming fate of Solus Prime in the Covenant to be rectified in the IDW continuity. In Barber/Scott/Roberts I trust.

AGREED.

Really wild speculation - In an attempt to prevent "Megatron" as we know him from existing, Brainstorm ends up killing Megatronus before Solus Prime can be killed. A tad extreme to kill a deity to prevent a despot, perhaps, but Brainstorm would have the means (either by using his Dead Universe research or by, you know, just warning Solus) and when it comes down to it, Solus Prime would have to be Brainstorm's idol - saving her could make Cybertron Brainstorm's ideal home.

How caught up are you with the comics?

Also, so far the Aligned Thirteen have been mentioned and hinted at, though do not follow the same layout as the Covenant has them in Barber's work. We'll have to see what happens once the concepts are expanded to other series too.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

ThatOneMoose wrote:

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh and also, maybe, may I interject, I totally want a bioshock-y Transformers game based of the IDW G1 continuity. It should follow Alpha Bravo.

And Barral Roll so we could have Co-op

I've begun to read IDW and am not too far in yet to phase two. Can you guys explain (spoiler-free please) why alpha bravo's such a b@d@$$? Just curious and want to be in on what everyone else is in on.

There's no way to explain it without spoilers. Buuuuuuuut because he's not really a major character and dosen't matter, Slingshot dies horribly near the end of the first run of Robots in disguise, before Dark Cybertron. Alpha Bravo takes the mantle left behind by him.

Also, he's totally the coolest. Like, for real.

@MairghreadScott wrote: BTW, TF Fans, yes Mistress of Flame is one seriously tall lady.

I want her as mai Waifu now. I'm kidding but she seems really cool; also she reminds me of Helen Mirren for some reason but to great effect. wat?

Va'al wrote:How caught up are you with the comics?

Also, so far the Aligned Thirteen have been mentioned and hinted at, though do not follow the same layout as the Covenant has them in Barber's work. We'll have to see what happens once the concepts are expanded to other series too.

Last I saw Brainstorm had a gun to Megatron's nascent spark. Should have blacked that out as a spoiler before, I guess.

Also, I've been assuming that, as in the real world, the disparate explanations of the Transformers' origin and prehistory present in IDW reflect differences in what the characters believe, rather than differences between universes or errors in continuity. At some point something did happen, but who, if anyone, has related that story to the audience accurately is unknown. Alpha Trion has even hinted that Cybertronians old enough to personally remember the era in question may have had their memories subverted (by him), creating the ultimate unreliable-narrator problem.

Say, we never did receive any direct confirmation that Flame from the old Marvel comics is dead in the IDW timeline, did we? Hmmmmmmmm...

Va'al wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

ThatOneMoose wrote:

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh and also, maybe, may I interject, I totally want a bioshock-y Transformers game based of the IDW G1 continuity. It should follow Alpha Bravo.

And Barral Roll so we could have Co-op

I've begun to read IDW and am not too far in yet to phase two. Can you guys explain (spoiler-free please) why alpha bravo's such a b@d@$$? Just curious and want to be in on what everyone else is in on.

There's no way to explain it without spoilers. Buuuuuuuut because he's not really a major character and dosen't matter, Slingshot dies horribly near the end of the first run of Robots in disguise, before Dark Cybertron. Alpha Bravo takes the mantle left behind by him.

Also, he's totally the coolest. Like, for real.

I knew that Slingshot died, just wondering what makes him so cool. Is it just the fact that he stepped up to take Slingshot's place?

ThatOneMoose wrote:

Va'al wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:There's no way to explain it without spoilers. Buuuuuuuut because he's not really a major character and dosen't matter, Slingshot dies horribly near the end of the first run of Robots in disguise, before Dark Cybertron. Alpha Bravo takes the mantle left behind by him.

Also, he's totally the coolest. Like, for real.

I knew that Slingshot died, just wondering what makes him so cool. Is it just the fact that he stepped up to take Slingshot's place?

Mostly because reasons. Personally, I adore how it irritates certain parts of the fandom by showing up on *one* panel of *one* issue, and having a toy that might in fact not be a replacement but a hint at a later team and combiner.

Alpha Bravo - because you're worth it.

Flame, anyone? G1 Flame? maybe that´s where they´re going.

Janus Prime wrote:Flame, anyone? G1 Flame? maybe that´s where they´re going.

Flame was already in IDW as an Autobot who was imprisoned for numerous war crimes.



Not saying he can't show up here but just saying Flame has shown up.

at all the love for Alpha Bravo, turning him into a meme is brilliant!

So... uhm... anyone else getting a huge Evangelion vibe here?

This is getting me hyped for the new Windblade series and I can't wait to see the new combiner and what it's theme is.

As for Alpha Bravo, all I can say i: Awesome, he's the first deluxe I'm hunting for since a lot of the stores near me are sold out of him (dragstrip is shelf warming though).

I think IDW should give that patriot his own miniseries then put him in the group that fuses with cyclonus (they both love Cybertron after all)

More weird thinking -

As the blacksmith of the 13, Solus Prime is a maker deity like Hephaestus/Vulcan, and by temperament and necessity she seems to have a particular affinity for weaponry (particularly melee weapons). Given that Transformers are themselves mechanical beings though, the distinction between weapon and person could be seen as somewhat nebulous by Caminans. That is supported by the blurb saying Caminans believe (presumably) Solus Prime is their mother (which may also challenge the presumption that Transformers must be born from hot spots, spark-splitting, or matrix-squeezing).

All that is pretty, 'well yeah', but what occurred to me is that Solus Prime could match up with a traditional earth goddess archetype that emphasizes the entangled ideas of creation and destruction (a stark contrast to the sort of Zoroastrian dichotomy of Primus and Unicron). In particular, she seems similar to the Morrigan.

Although commonly associated with war and death some interpretations of the Morrigan treat her as a goddess or demi-goddess of fertility and sovereignty, a symbol of creation and protective or strategic warfare. This fits with Solus Prime being a maker and a fighter, but not THE fighter. She created weapons and armors to defend Cybertron, just as the Morrigan would have aided threatened kingdoms.

To twist the tale even further, the Morrigan is sometimes described as a trio of goddesses or one deity in three-parts - typically Badb, Macha and Nemain - and many stories involve her transforming into different creatures, her most notable alternate modes forms being a raven/crow, an eel, and a wolf (less notably a cow, but who in mythology hasn't turned into a cow at some point?). It's probably a coincidence, but it does seem surprisingly on target that the three Caminan's we've met so far are a jet, a submarine, and a combat motorcycle.

Oh, and the raven/crow form is associated with Badb, who may "appear prior to a battle to foreshadow the extent of the carnage to come, or to predict the death of a notable person." Which makes me think, 'So... Windblade... interesting timing showing up right before the Combiner Wars begin - who's gonna die?'

Good points, I have encountered morrigan while looking into myths of different cultures, when I first heard of solus a year or two ago I thought at that point the thirteen were more like the Greek pantheon, making solus Artemis but I do like your interpretation.

Got the 'thigh gap', which so many people seem to like!

"The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens"


This sounds like a bunch of mother nature, Gaia false goddess worship junk to me. And being incorporated into a flipping comic book of all things.

Geez........

All for the sake of being PC by making robots female or even male, which is absolutely INSANE and SILLY as they are robots. Gender is not applicable to a damn piece of silicon and metal.

Makes you wonder why a female writer incorporates this nonsense into a children's comic book? Is she pagan or something?

I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

Optimizzy wrote:I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

True.


But this was Scott's take in the interview, with set the spark to the speculation game:

The Mistress of Flame is the leader of the only faith on Caminus, The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens. But fire can be as dangerous as it is helpful and the faith of Caminus burns hotter than any Cybertronian realizes.

----

shockblast2 wrote:"The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens"


This sounds like a bunch of mother nature, Gaia false goddess worship junk to me. And being incorporated into a flipping comic book of all things.

Geez........

All for the sake of being PC by making robots female or even male, which is absolutely INSANE and SILLY as they are robots. Gender is not applicable to a damn piece of silicon and metal.

Makes you wonder why a female writer incorporates this nonsense into a children's comic book? Is she pagan or something?

You're welcome to disagree, but please beware of steering into insulting behaviour.

(Paganism is a recognised religion - and as per the rules, we'd rather avoid attacks based on one's beliefs. Not saying you are, yet, but want to get in here before it degenerates. )


As to the gender issue - it's here to stay, everyone get over it please. Hasbro inserted it a long time ago, and made sure IDW would re-introduce it with Spotlight: Arcee. You want agender robots? This is not your franchise.


Comic books are not only for children, never have been, let's leave that quadruped also nice and buried.

Va'al wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

True.


But this was Scott's take in the interview, with set the spark to the speculation game:

The Mistress of Flame is the leader of the only faith on Caminus, The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens. But fire can be as dangerous as it is helpful and the faith of Caminus burns hotter than any Cybertronian realizes.

Did not catch that part. That's vague but it seems to be going in the direction of zealotry. Which is disappointing. I'm seeing that everywhere, in everything. Would have been nice for a change, but I guess we are going to do THAT story.

Is it to much to ask to have a story that features an organized religion that isn't centered on it's eventual corruption? I mean, such tings exist but not necessarily all the time, and not to all people. It just gets dull after a while.

Maybe they have the outlook that cybertronians are dangerous and want to burn them away like a cancer or something. That is a terrible thing, but also understandable given the vastly destructive nature of the cybertronians. "For the greater good" and "If my right hand offends me, cut it off" and such. I'm not cool with that attitude, but I could understand and see their reasoning.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out to me Va'al.

Optimizzy wrote:

Va'al wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

True.


But this was Scott's take in the interview, with set the spark to the speculation game:

The Mistress of Flame is the leader of the only faith on Caminus, The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens. But fire can be as dangerous as it is helpful and the faith of Caminus burns hotter than any Cybertronian realizes.

Did not catch that part. That's vague but it seems to be going in the direction of zealotry. Which is disappointing. I'm seeing that everywhere, in everything. Would have been nice for a change, but I guess we are going to do THAT story.

Is it to much to ask to have a story that features an organized religion that isn't centered on it's eventual corruption? I mean, such tings exist but not necessarily all the time, and not to all people. It just gets dull after a while.

Maybe they have the outlook that cybertronians are dangerous and want to burn them away like a cancer or something. That is a terrible thing, but also understandable given the vastly destructive nature of the cybertronians. "For the greater good" and "If my right hand offends me, cut it off" and such. I'm not cool with that attitude, but I could understand and see their reasoning.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out to me Va'al.

It would be a very interesting and intriguing direction, you are most correct. I wonder whether our speculation is in fact going too far into the potential readings of that 'dangerous' bit.

Maybe the Mistress of Fire and the Way of the Flame are not to blame, but some of its more zealous members are? That definitely seems to be the case so far with, say, Cyclonus and Star Saber.

Va'al wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:I didnt read every comment before this, so someone else may have touched on it:

Why do we assume that since she is a religious leader that that means she has some dark secret are is secretly evil?

Maybe she is *gasp* exactly what she says she is? Religions don't make people do bad things. Bad people use religion to justify their acts. Even if there was no religion, there would still be bad things, just different justifications.

In MTMTE storyline that showed us Star Saber, he was to represent one of the three pillars of society that has gone wrong, namely religion. Law and Medicine were also represented in an equally negative fashion.

If this new character turns out to be a bad guy, or even a negatively presented character, it will be a rather dull addition. I mean, we've seen that before, and in a far more engaging aspect.

//2 cents.

True.


But this was Scott's take in the interview, with set the spark to the speculation game:

The Mistress of Flame is the leader of the only faith on Caminus, The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens. But fire can be as dangerous as it is helpful and the faith of Caminus burns hotter than any Cybertronian realizes.

----

shockblast2 wrote:"The Way of Flame, which worships a female Prime said to be the mother of all Camiens"


This sounds like a bunch of mother nature, Gaia false goddess worship junk to me. And being incorporated into a flipping comic book of all things.

Geez........

All for the sake of being PC by making robots female or even male, which is absolutely INSANE and SILLY as they are robots. Gender is not applicable to a damn piece of silicon and metal.

Makes you wonder why a female writer incorporates this nonsense into a children's comic book? Is she pagan or something?

You're welcome to disagree, but please beware of steering into insulting behaviour.

(Paganism is a recognised religion - and as per the rules, we'd rather avoid attacks based on one's beliefs. Not saying you are, yet, but want to get in here before it degenerates. )


As to the gender issue - it's here to stay, everyone get over it please. Hasbro inserted it a long time ago, and made sure IDW would re-introduce it with Spotlight: Arcee. You want agender robots? This is not your franchise.


Comic books are not only for children, never have been, let's leave that quadruped also nice and buried.

My opinion of the writers personal religious beliefs have nothing to do with the rules of this site. It is not an attack. it is an observation. One that I find very disturbing, to say the least. Especially since they are writing stories geared to children. And comic books are for children. Whether or not you want to admit it is your problem.

It is not here to stay. It is a flavor of the week. Just like it was with the 86 movie and this comic book series. Just another ploy to sell more product and using social issues to fuel it. Its pathetic.

And yes, this is your franchise if you want asexual robots, because all Transformers are asexual. Only those will silly ideologies think robots can be male or female.

Va'al wrote:
It would be a very interesting and intriguing direction, you are most correct. I wonder whether our speculation is in fact going too far into the potential readings of that 'dangerous' bit.

Maybe the Mistress of Fire and the Way of the Flame are not to blame, but some of its more zealous members are? That definitely seems to be the case so far with, say, Cyclonus and Star Saber.

I could see it going that way. I'd like to see more exploration into Cyclonus as well. He is becoming even more awesome to me, especially after last issue.

also, Im digging the Alpha Bravo love.

As I said, I was not claiming yours was an attack, just making sure we knew where we all stand.


As for the rest:

- sex is not gender
- male and female are not the only genders
- IDWverse has gender, since 2008.

And I will not let this discussion derail again. If you, or anyone else, would like to debate gender politics in Transformers, please use one of the existing threads, such as this one. Thank you.

EDIT: Further posts on this topic have been moved to said thread.