IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:44 pm

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Randomhero wrote:Because I read comics. All kinds of comics. Not just “James Roberts who can do no wrong’s next masterpiece of comics”


Same here.

And I enjoyed this issue.


Take off the rose tinted glasses he’s not that great of a story teller.


You don't need them to recognise that Roberts is a good writer. Great writer? Not necessarily. Good? Definitely so.



Maybe let's all stop flinging negativity around where no negativity is needed? Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it. I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ricemazter » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:50 pm

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Va'al wrote:
Randomhero wrote:Because I read comics. All kinds of comics. Not just “James Roberts who can do no wrong’s next masterpiece of comics”


Same here.

And I enjoyed this issue.


Take off the rose tinted glasses he’s not that great of a story teller.


You don't need them to recognise that Roberts is a good writer. Great writer? Not necessarily. Good? Definitely so.



Maybe let's all stop flinging negativity around where no negativity is needed? Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it. I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.


There's negativity and nitpicking, like people getting mad at a preview while it sets up an obvious joke about a 2nd head in a rear end, and then there's actual criticism.

I'm actually back in on this series after a choppy but good issue 13, but I think it's worth noting that this book has some pretty big flaws.

I'm going to reserve final judgement until I read the issue Wednesday night, but it is a little anticlimactic to have 3 of the scariest Decepticons in the IDW universe in a confrontation only to have them chat for a bit and leave.

Shockwave and Yarn, one at each other's throats after the latter escapes prison? How will Shockwave, master strategist survive the encouter? You could have an entire story arc about this, but Shockwave just shoots a phone and leaves.

How did Scorponok, who we haven't seen in a decade, make his escape from Garrus 9? Eh, Shockwave just sort of picked him up as a destraction and he toddled out an airlock.

If all that's going to happen is dangling these interesting chess pieces in front of us, why not have an exciting prison break or something along with Flame, who might have an interesting part to play in any escape since he's an Autobot whose crimes have been covered up by high command..

Like the ending to the mutineers trilogy, it just feels rushed to get wherever this plot is ultimately going at the cost of interesting ideas.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:07 am

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Va'al wrote:Roberts is a good writer. Great writer? Not necessarily. Good? Definitely so.
Wholly a matter of opinion.
Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it.
Each reader has his/her own opinion. If that reader dislikes it enough to give that reaction, that reader can do so. Personally, I think it's because this has gone on for so long. MTMTE started fairly well, had a few low points, but overall stayed interesting. Roberts gave us a good start. Then, the last 3rd of that book went downhill, for whatever reason he lost control of the story. Or maybe he never had control, and whoever did, stopped supervising him. And thus Dying of the Light was a very anticlimactic end to a decent story. And Lost Light was supposed to be a reboot of sorts, but it never got better. Eventually, most readers get tired of being disappointed over and over again.
I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.
It's the same thing with the movies, except those stories went down the drain a lot quicker. The first film was decent, and the rest seemed to nosedive in quality. But that's a tired discussion going on 9 years now, and it belongs in the movie forum.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:51 am

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Va'al wrote:Roberts is a good writer. Great writer? Not necessarily. Good? Definitely so.
Wholly a matter of opinion.


Sure. That's not what I'm taking issue with.


Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it.
Each reader has his/her own opinion. If that reader dislikes it enough to give that reaction, that reader can do so. Personally, I think it's because this has gone on for so long. MTMTE started fairly well, had a few low points, but overall stayed interesting. Roberts gave us a good start. Then, the last 3rd of that book went downhill, for whatever reason he lost control of the story. Or maybe he never had control, and whoever did, stopped supervising him. And thus Dying of the Light was a very anticlimactic end to a decent story. And Lost Light was supposed to be a reboot of sorts, but it never got better. Eventually, most readers get tired of being disappointed over and over again.


It's a preview. People are calling other people biased and rose-tinted and stanning because the latter people enjoyed a **** preview. That is my issue.

You don't have to like it. You are more than welcome, and entitled to, disagree, even strongly. But can we stop implying that there's something wrong with readers who do like what they're reading, even if it's the third coming of Twilight?


I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.
It's the same thing with the movies, except those stories went down the drain a lot quicker. The first film was decent, and the rest seemed to nosedive in quality. But that's a tired discussion going on 9 years now, and it belongs in the movie forum.


And this is a tired discussion that belongs in this section.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:00 am

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ricemazter wrote:
Va'al wrote:
Randomhero wrote:Because I read comics. All kinds of comics. Not just “James Roberts who can do no wrong’s next masterpiece of comics”


Same here.

And I enjoyed this issue.


Take off the rose tinted glasses he’s not that great of a story teller.


You don't need them to recognise that Roberts is a good writer. Great writer? Not necessarily. Good? Definitely so.



Maybe let's all stop flinging negativity around where no negativity is needed? Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it. I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.


There's negativity and nitpicking, like people getting mad at a preview while it sets up an obvious joke about a 2nd head in a rear end, and then there's actual criticism.

I'm actually back in on this series after a choppy but good issue 13, but I think it's worth noting that this book has some pretty big flaws.

I'm going to reserve final judgement until I read the issue Wednesday night, but it is a little anticlimactic to have 3 of the scariest Decepticons in the IDW universe in a confrontation only to have them chat for a bit and leave.

Shockwave and Yarn, one at each other's throats after the latter escapes prison? How will Shockwave, master strategist survive the encouter? You could have an entire story arc about this, but Shockwave just shoots a phone and leaves.

How did Scorponok, who we haven't seen in a decade, make his escape from Garrus 9? Eh, Shockwave just sort of picked him up as a destraction and he toddled out an airlock.

If all that's going to happen is dangling these interesting chess pieces in front of us, why not have an exciting prison break or something along with Flame, who might have an interesting part to play in any escape since he's an Autobot whose crimes have been covered up by high command..

Like the ending to the mutineers trilogy, it just feels rushed to get wherever this plot is ultimately going at the cost of interesting ideas.

I'm different though and the choice of actions here didn't bother me, the events played out as they should, instead of dragging out what is simply an explanation of how characters got to where they should be. I also liked how shockwave dealt with Tarn as it was simple and efficient otherwise Tarn would of ended up dead which would screw up the continuity worse then a simple error.

I can see Rodimus Primes view that people should be able to voice criticisms about a series they once liked, but I can certainly see Va'al's take on this. You can critise the work just not the author or the people who like it. Also spare a thought about how you critise it, think "if someone said this about a work in like, how would I react?"

End of the day all we are dealing with here is opinions :-)
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby budmaloney » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:08 am

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To be honest, it's been an interesting ride for the entire IDW Transformers series. Lots of changes, especially the whole Hasbro Universe thing...it made things confusing to me IMO. But LL seems isolated from all that, so it maintained its course. I have never been able to judge if a writer is good or bad, or if a director is good or bad...I find it to be out of my scope. What I can judge or communicate is how I experienced it. And so far, Lost Light has been good average but fast. The books don't focus at the moments you want them to focus on. It's like someone flipping the channels, and you see something you like but they don't go back to it. That's the feeling I've been having. Being familiar with Robert's stories, like MTME, he's pulling our legs, there is a buildup and we know it'll hit us soon.

As for the negativity, it has always been the case. The Transformers fandom specifically has been known for being toxic.

I always thought I'd be up for a good ol' Paramount movie bashing any time of day. :HEADHURTS: but I learned that's not what people necessarily want to hear. Fans are trying to enjoy the content and accept it with its flaws.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:33 am

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Disappointment and let down is sometimes hard to deal with. It sometimes feels like a bit of betrayal. This book, felt like a little too much going too fast - for me. Love the characters, love the art, the story seemed a bit fast paced.

Now going back to my opening statement - I try to be open minded. I attempt to give many things the benefit of the doubt. I have to admit, about 40% of the time I am rather confused with this series. I need to go back and read it all again, one after another to make sure I get the picture. Although this next statement is more or less directed at another series, I have never felt ire or aggravation (maybe extreme dislike) for a series outside of visionaries - that said, I am giving it the benefit of the doubt (it made me stupidly angry - and I don't like that). I am of the mindset that everyone is entitled to their feelings, and expression of their feelings, providing their feelings (and opinions) is not forced upon others. I am confused as to why people would give opinions on something not yet experienced (I cannot give my opinion on Marvel outside of not fond of the artwork.)

I value va'als reviews because he echo's a lot of my own sentiment when he does them. I try not to view them until I have had a read over first. (although sometimes I read them and get eager to go out and get that book)

As for the transformers fandom being toxic. I have spoken to moderators I work with on another forum, and it is my understanding is that every fandom has its toxic people. I was told the Rick and Morty fans were quite hostile. The fans of the forum I moderate at are quite colourful at times. I would not expect anything less than division in a fandom with a series as diverse as transformers. Its up there with Doctor Who (the Series that is your series is usually the series that drew you in (for the record, my heart lies with the 4th doctor.) People have such intense passion for their specific series that they will defend it viciously. For some its G1 (me) others Bay Movies, or Beastwars maybe Even TFprime or Rescue Bots (just to name a few). What seems forgotten across all fandoms, not just transformers, is to respect that other people will have different reason for enjoying a series.

I enjoy the Transformers Series for Starscream - don't ask why I adore him so much, but I do. I will defend him viciously - I have. People have said but... Prime is better, Megatron is better, Ironhide is better... why do you like that whiny piece of junk? My answer will always be, is Love cannot ever be fully explained and answered but its a emotion, passion, and soul rolled into one.

We are not only toxic, but passionate.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:29 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:I can see Rodimus Primes view that people should be able to voice criticisms about a series they once liked, but I can certainly see Va'al's take on this. You can critise the work just not the author or the people who like it. Also spare a thought about how you critise it, think "if someone said this about a work in like, how would I react?"

End of the day all we are dealing with here is opinions :-)


Thank you. Nowhere will I ever say that anyone is not allowed to post their negative take on a piece of work or toy or media. But I am getting extremely tired, to the point of not really bothering participating in the discussion, of the 'you like this so you're wrong'.

Criticism - again - is encouraged. I encourage it with every preview and review I make sure gets posted. I encourage it with questions in the news posts. I encourage it in the discussion threads where I have time to post. It's the manner in which flinging thinly-veiled tantrums is covered up as criticism that has gotten exhausting.


Sunstar wrote:I value va'als reviews because he echo's a lot of my own sentiment when he does them. I try not to view them until I have had a read over first. (although sometimes I read them and get eager to go out and get that book)


Thank you, I appreciate these words. :)



We are not only toxic, but passionate.


budmaloney wrote:As for the negativity, it has always been the case. The Transformers fandom specifically has been known for being toxic.


Then it's time to grow up and drop the toxicity. I'm not the only one who's exhausted and actively disheartened from participating in fandom discussions because of this attitude, and I've had enough of the 'ignore it and move on' approach.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby misfire19d » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:41 pm

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Maybe let's all stop flinging negativity around where no negativity is needed? Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it. I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.


Sounds like you're just refusing to accept the criticisms as legitimate.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:42 pm

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misfire19d wrote:
Maybe let's all stop flinging negativity around where no negativity is needed? Again, I GET people who DISLIKE the series or the issues. I do not get, at all, why it's we've reached this level of just spitting on it. I don't get it with Paramount movies, I don't get it with these comics. I really don't.


Sounds like you're just refusing to accept the criticisms as legitimate.


Sounds like you don't read my reviews, in which I've criticised almost every single issue so far.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby misfire19d » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:20 pm

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Sounds like you're just refusing to accept the criticisms as legitimate.


Sounds like you don't read my reviews, in which I've criticised almost every single issue so far.



See what I mean? You just did what I said you do.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:21 pm

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misfire19d wrote:
Sounds like you're just refusing to accept the criticisms as legitimate.


Sounds like you don't read my reviews, in which I've criticised almost every single issue so far.



See what I mean? You just did what I said you do.



Nope, please do explain. I'm **** tired of allusions, implications, and suggestions: what is the problem, what is the criticism, and what is it that you say I do?
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby misfire19d » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:23 pm

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you just did what I said you do. You refused to accept my critique as legitimate.

I win.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:26 pm

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misfire19d wrote:you just did what I said you do. You refused to accept my critique as legitimate.

I win.


Sure thing, darling. Well done on winning! Have a Rodimus Badge for Achieving Something Today. :rodimusstar:
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:55 pm

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Va'al wrote:
misfire19d wrote:you just did what I said you do. You refused to accept my critique as legitimate.

I win.


Sure thing, darling. Well done on winning! Have a Rodimus Badge for Achieving Something Today. :rodimusstar:


I had to laugh there just now. People are so preoccupied with being right! I knew what you meant Va'al, the other guy didn't comprehend and was locked in his thoughts
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:50 pm

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Va'al wrote:You are more than welcome, and entitled to, disagree, even strongly. But can we stop implying that there's something wrong with readers who do like what they're reading, even if it's the third coming of Twilight?
People can like whatever they want. I never once said or even implied there something wrong with them for liking something that I don't.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:54 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Va'al wrote:You are more than welcome, and entitled to, disagree, even strongly. But can we stop implying that there's something wrong with readers who do like what they're reading, even if it's the third coming of Twilight?
People can like whatever they want. I never once said or even implied there something wrong with them for liking something that I don't.



Wasn't talking about you, dear.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:31 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:I can see Rodimus Primes view that people should be able to voice criticisms about a series they once liked, but I can certainly see Va'al's take on this. You can critise the work just not the author
You mean personally, or as an author? An artist of any type should be criticized based on his/her work. If someone constantly (or at least regularly) produces substandard work, that artist deserves criticism. Having said that, I do understand that 'substandard' is a matter of point of view. Something I may think of as substandard (most of Roberts' work of the last few years), someone else might hold in high regard. That's fine. But just because I don't like something and I say so, and others disagree, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it just because it's "negativity."
Also give a thought about how you critise it, think "if someone said this about a work in like, how would I react?"
First I would ask why that someone has that opinion. If I am given valid reason, then I would see how I can improve on the work.
End of the day all we are dealing with here is opinions :-)
Exactly. And if someone else has an opinion opposite of mine, I wouldn't tell him/her that s/he can't say it, just because it's "negative." The way I look at it is my criticism of Roberts's work is positive, because it may contribute to his effort to improve. If he disregards it, that's fine as well. (I'm speaking in general, I'm pretty sure he doesn't read this thread. Or if he does, he doesn't consider the comments directed at him. If he did, the quality of the story in LL would have improved by now.)
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:36 pm

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Va'al wrote:Wasn't talking about you, dear.
I didn't think so, but considering the comment was made in response to a comment of mine that you quoted, I just wanted to clarify. :)
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:01 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:I can see Rodimus Primes view that people should be able to voice criticisms about a series they once liked, but I can certainly see Va'al's take on this. You can critise the work just not the author
You mean personally, or as an author? An artist of any type should be criticized based on his/her work. If someone constantly (or at least regularly) produces substandard work, that artist deserves criticism. Having said that, I do understand that 'substandard' is a matter of point of view. Something I may think of as substandard (most of Roberts' work of the last few years), someone else might hold in high regard. That's fine. But just because I don't like something and I say so, and others disagree, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it just because it's "negativity."


'I do not like the standard of this creator's output, it's put me off the work altogether and that is disappointing me' is not the same as 'take off your rose tinted glasses, you're being swindled by a hack'. I'm here using Exaggeration to try getting my point across, again, one more time, as I don't seem to be making it through.


Am I really being that hard to understand..? More than once I've had to just give up on discussing a piece of work in this thread because of the HOW DARE HE AND ALSO IT WAS GOOD AND NOW IT'S CRAP AND MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER WOULD NOT DO THAT - and I can understand disappointment, I do, I've been critical (negatively) of most of the Lost Light run so far, narrative wise. But why do we have to, every time, fall into 'he's a hack, go read better comics'?

Why not, as you suggest, point out the technical parts that fail in the creation of the story or thread or narrative? And then discuss those?

Not taking away a simple 'I don't like it', that's also obviously fine! - but why does it become 'I don't like it, and you are being tricked into liking it because you don't know better'? Why the superiority?

---

In other news, I'm working on the review for this issue, and as I said above, I enjoyed it overall - despite all my misgivings on the series so far, and some things that didn't work for me.

Have some Sara Pitre Durocher lineart.

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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:09 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote: First I would ask why that someone has that opinion. If I am given valid reason, then I would see how I can improve on the work.


for my stuff, I generally want constructive criticism. In order to improve, I value input. I value input that can effect a positive change on my work. People saying this work sucks, and doesn't express how it could be changed, preferably in a civilised manner, are not worth my time. If a person says, "you know your work is good, but your grammar is off, missing oxford commas and the like and then may offer some assistance or point out where the errors are. - I have no issue with that. I have seen budding artists lose heart because of some jerk making some unnecessarily cruel remark regarding their work, and I have seen artists blossom with helpful guidance. So not all negative criticism is inherently bad - most constructive crit is wonderful.

Its the destructive crit that's bad. It sucks because I don't like you or your art - I may be of a minority here, but I was told if you don't have anything nice or useful to say, its generally best to keep ones maw closed.

So Rodimus, perfect answer <3 I still miss TAAO *sosb*
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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Rodimus Prime wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:I can see Rodimus Primes view that people should be able to voice criticisms about a series they once liked, but I can certainly see Va'al's take on this. You can critise the work just not the author
You mean personally, or as an author? An artist of any type should be criticized based on his/her work. If someone constantly (or at least regularly) produces substandard work, that artist deserves criticism. Having said that, I do understand that 'substandard' is a matter of point of view. Something I may think of as substandard (most of Roberts' work of the last few years), someone else might hold in high regard. That's fine. But just because I don't like something and I say so, and others disagree, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it just because it's "negativity."
Also give a thought about how you critise it, think "if someone said this about a work in like, how would I react?"
First I would ask why that someone has that opinion. If I am given valid reason, then I would see how I can improve on the work.
End of the day all we are dealing with here is opinions :-)
Exactly. And if someone else has an opinion opposite of mine, I wouldn't tell him/her that s/he can't say it, just because it's "negative." The way I look at it is my criticism of Roberts's work is positive, because it may contribute to his effort to improve. If he disregards it, that's fine as well. (I'm speaking in general, I'm pretty sure he doesn't read this thread. Or if he does, he doesn't consider the comments directed at him. If he did, the quality of the story in LL would have improved by now.)

Oh I meant don't attack the author personally, constructive criticism is encouraged as long as it's genuine and isn't an attempt to insult (and trying to get it through by passing it off as criticism)

Though my part about if the shoe was on the other foot was more about people who were just attacking without having any constructive criticism.
EDIT: Sunstar me and you have the same taste in doctors from doctor who apparently...
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Lore Keeper » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:53 pm

Va'al wrote:
misfire19d wrote:you just did what I said you do. You refused to accept my critique as legitimate.

I win.


Sure thing, darling. Well done on winning! Have a Rodimus Badge for Achieving Something Today. :rodimusstar:

Hehe, darling... I like to use "cupcake" myself. :lol:
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:01 pm

Can we get back onto the topic of Lost Light.
**** asking nicely.

There's plenty of space in the rest of the forums where you can start your own thread about the etiquettes of posting positively or negatively.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Lore Keeper » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:05 pm

Burn wrote:Can we get back onto the topic of Lost Light.
**** asking nicely.

There's plenty of space in the rest of the forums where you can start your own thread about the etiquettes of posting positively or negatively.

Fair point. So, thoughts on the last panel of 'LL #13? I'm definitely intrigued.
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