IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:43 am

Okay guys, knock it off. Everyone has differing opinions, there's no need to be nasty or condescending.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:53 am

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I've seen people be concerned about the more iconic elements of the Visionaries aesthetic - banners and chest symbols - but I'm still unsure as to why there is this concern. The concept art shows both off quite clearly (maybe not the banners admittedly, but the cover provides one of those at least). :-?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:21 am

Va'al wrote:
Daniel Adkins wrote:What is the actual decline in quality you guys keep referencing? Because I've yet to see anyone in this thread make a complaint about an actual Transformers book that doesn't boil down to just "things that aren't robots are dumb."

I find Optimus Prime to be as enjoyable as RID ever was. TAAO was a fantastic series that I wish more people had bought so that it could continue to happen. Lost Light sadly continues the spiral downward from MTMTE, but that began back in MTMTE Season 2. But, I still find it okay and am willing to pick it up and hope Roberts can recover. Revolutionaries has been a fun ride from beginning to end that delves into the deepest lore in this universe and revisits concepts that I never expected to see again. ROM Vs. Transformers is incredible and I dare say will be remembered as one of the definitive stand-alone Transformers stories, right up there with LSOTW.

So please, tell me. What am I missing here?


You mention the decline in story from MTMTE and Lost Light, and some people are definitely referring to that. It being 'okay' after a long run of it being 'very good' has definitely put people off. (It's frustrating on both sides of the argument, I know.)

Optimus Prime is probably - to me at least - better than xRID, maybe on par with the initial arcs (was not a fan of Megatron's return). Agreed on TAAO.

Rom vs Transformers has had two issues so far, so I'm reserving judgement, but the second has not lived up to the first for the readers on staff, effectively just restating what the first issue had set down, and sending Stardrive to background character status after one issue. That may pick up again in issue 3, but so far it's just a bit ..whelming, after the promise of the start.

Revolutionaries had ups and downs, with some highlights, and was completely truncated by the entire end-plot revealed in the solicits and scheduling issues. Editorial control on the books is slipping a little, as they try resettling the whole team, and in my opinion, Transformers do not have the support or numbers that IDW thinks they have to be able to hold up every new franchise being introduced into the universe.

As someone suggested above, why not have Rom vs Visionaries instead? Or even Micronauts, which is a much better series in terms of visibility of its writer, and Karza being at the centre of at least three events now? Rom is being set up as a very enjoyable series overall (though someone needs to edit Ryall much better, and forget he's the boss at IDW when doing so), the Rom vs TF series is already providing the hook - just split it off from there, instead of using the 'remnants of TAAO' to do the groundwork.


I'm not as negative as other commenters on this issue, but I agree with the disgruntlement that some have about some of the quality in the output. My biggest issue, I'll admit, is the lack of proper scheduling, the amount of influe--- interference from Hasbro corporate, and the editorial dwindlings. The books are collateral damage of those three elements.

If people do agree with me that Lost Light is dropping in quality, that's fine, but I must say I find it ironic that the one book to actually be getting worse is the one immune to the crossovers.

And on the point of "why use Transformers to lunch Visionaries," well... why WOULDN'T a company use their most popular IP to help sell their new one? It makes perfect sense from a marketing perspective. Plus, it lends itself well to a "Magic vs. Technology" theme. Plus, if my prediction is true and the Talisman does indeed come from Prysmos, this gives the Visionaries characters a connection the Transformers history and further builds up to the arrival of Onyx Prime. So it makes sense from a story perspective.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:48 am

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I'm not saying it doesn't make sense from a story perspective, I'm trying to point out that IDW is not that good at doing this cross-franchise thing so far, bar some exceptions (in my opinion as comics reader with not too much investment in the brands themselves). I'm not expecting you to agree with me, or anyone else with anyone else, I was trying to illustrate my position!

Magic vs Technology is already the idea of Rom though, isn't it? Solstar Order (tech) vs Dire Wraiths (magic) could also be a fertile ground for the same type of set up, bar the Onyx connection. But if they have to use the Transformers franchise to launch their newer ones - why leave Lost Light out of it?

I'm all for Lost Light getting drawn into the crossovers, personally!
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:57 am

If Lost Light WAS drawn into the crossovers, that'd just result in even MORE complaints from that subsection of fans that only read MTMTE/LL and don't care about anything else. It also doesn't help that Roberts is clearly uninterested in having anything to do with the wider universe (both the wider Hasbro Universe and the other TF comics.)
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:04 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:If Lost Light WAS drawn into the crossovers, that'd just result in even MORE complaints from that subsection of fans that only read MTMTE/LL and don't care about anything else. It also doesn't help that Roberts is clearly uninterested in having anything to do with the wider universe (both the wider Hasbro Universe and the other TF comics.)


Which is why I'd love for him to be dragged kicking and screaming into the rest of the bloody program.

As well as an editor who tells him to cut the words.

But getting back to Visionaries - I really like Visaggio, and I can warm up to Ossio if he does justice to the non-organic characters (so far been a bit wobbly on that part), so I'll definitely give this series a try! :D
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:07 am

Va'al wrote:
Daniel Adkins wrote:If Lost Light WAS drawn into the crossovers, that'd just result in even MORE complaints from that subsection of fans that only read MTMTE/LL and don't care about anything else. It also doesn't help that Roberts is clearly uninterested in having anything to do with the wider universe (both the wider Hasbro Universe and the other TF comics.)


Which is why I'd love for him to be dragged kicking and screaming into the rest of the bloody program.

As well as an editor who tells him to cut the words.

But getting back to Visionaries - I really like Visaggio, and I can warm up to Ossio if he does justice to the non-organic characters (so far been a bit wobbly on that part), so I'll definitely give this series a try! :D

See, if there was a "dip" in quality, I think it was more when John Barber stepped down as editor, not when the crossovers happened.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:19 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:
Va'al wrote:
Daniel Adkins wrote:If Lost Light WAS drawn into the crossovers, that'd just result in even MORE complaints from that subsection of fans that only read MTMTE/LL and don't care about anything else. It also doesn't help that Roberts is clearly uninterested in having anything to do with the wider universe (both the wider Hasbro Universe and the other TF comics.)


Which is why I'd love for him to be dragged kicking and screaming into the rest of the bloody program.

As well as an editor who tells him to cut the words.

But getting back to Visionaries - I really like Visaggio, and I can warm up to Ossio if he does justice to the non-organic characters (so far been a bit wobbly on that part), so I'll definitely give this series a try! :D

See, if there was a "dip" in quality, I think it was more when John Barber stepped down as editor, not when the crossovers happened.


Oh, I'd agree, almost entirely.


It just happened to be that he stepped down and was then immediately working on Action Man, Revolution, Revolutionaries then Rom vs TF, so the coincidence of crossover and 'dip' is an easy one to make (not saying it's correct).
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:28 am

But like I said, I started to get bored with MTMTE midway through Season 2 and was enjoying exRID a lot more by the time Combiner Wars ended. So for me, everyone else is really just catching up to what I already noticed. XD
And if Barber giving up editing is the price to pay for having Action Man (both the character and the mini), it is a price I'm more than happy to pay (especially since all the other TF titles are still great, and we have non-TF titles that are great.)
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Kurona » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:17 am

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We could also stop with the constant crossovers and let every book in the Hasbroverse continue unimpeded for a good while and hence letting them develop their own great stories and characters without needing to shove in pointless crossovers; that'd be cool too...
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:04 am

Kurona wrote:We could also stop with the constant crossovers and let every book in the Hasbroverse continue unimpeded for a good while and hence letting them develop their own great stories and characters without needing to shove in pointless crossovers; that'd be cool too...
What she said.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Soundwave902 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:20 pm

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Regarding the crossovers as a whole, I'm all for them in the style of Shining Armor, i.e. allows both titular runs to have their own books along with crossovers unlike some others (I'm staring at you Revolution).

For this, it looks interesting as long as it doesn't turn into a Wrath of Karza-esque deal, where nothing that happened it gets mentioned at all. Since I wasn't alive at the time of the original Visionaries, I never had any experience with the original designs so I don't have any qualms about the changes. That being said, the looks for the Visionaries is awesome. I just hope it doesn't underpower the Cybertronians to the point of Bayverse to fight them, but since I am unaware of the Visionaries power levels, I could be okay of them 1v1'ing, although the pink one must be extremely tough to take out Ironhide.

On the Ironhide's involvement, I hope he's like Kup in Revolutionaries, meaning a contractor-type level who helps them out occasionly. They probably just analyze him here, just don't kill a semi-core character to show how powerful the newbies are
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximus_Prime » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:54 am

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Pretty much what Va'al and Scotty have said illustrate my views at the moment.

Lost Light is a noticeable dip in quality, and MTMTE started to suffer after issue 38. The time travel arc was the best for Roberts, that arc put so much of the mythos and hints from the series into place. Now with issue 9 of LL coming up and the review coming I'd argue that just maybe we will be getting back on a better end story track (I will send some thoughts soon Va'al!)

OP is a great book, it really is, and I feel it is about as good as RiD was, if not a bit better/more touching. But I loved the Cybertronian politics of the first season and then the 2nd season went back to Earth and made it a bit too central. And OP/RiD is the one that keeps getting dragged into every single crossover, which can be a bit jarring. TAAO sort of took up the reigns of the Cybertron based story, and it was great, arguably the best of the past year. Not on Par with either Wreckers story, but very close (Wreckers stories are my favorites of the entire IDW run). So with regards to OP, it't not that the series has had a dip in quality, it just has needed to take some detours that may have delayed some good things coming.

And the IDW scheduling has really messed stuff up, geez. That hasn't helped either.

One thing I'd like for them to explore though is the Impactor/Mayhem team. The word Revolution was used by Impactor at the end when Revolution was being teased, but nothing yet. Oh and Verity and Springer, with everything on Earth happening, I am really surprised we haven't got a hint of them again.

But at least OP appears to be bringing back throttlebots. We are now recovering some lost elements from stories past.

As for Visionaries, I like the idea of them starting a crossover with a different franchise. Why couldn't they? ROM appears to be the most successful of the non-TF guys, so they could do something there.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:48 pm

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:As for Visionaries, I like the idea of them starting a crossover with a different franchise. Why couldn't they? ROM appears to be the most successful of the non-TF guys, so they could do something there.

I think there are several reasons why Transformers was picked.
1. Marketability - Transformers is the most successful of the Hasbro Universe properties, and it makes sense to use the most popular character(s) to spin-off new ones. This is an especially common practice in comics. The Legion of Super-Heroes were spun off from Superboy. Black Panther and the Inhumans were both introduced in Fantastic Four before getting their own titles. Hell, Transformers even did this with Death's Head.
2. Thematic - As I said earlier, magic vs. technology. If you have a bunch of wizards and knights from a land that has no technology whatsoever, wouldn't it be interesting to see some of them go up against a race that is entirely technological beings? Not only that, but the Visionaries also have the same ability as Transformers: they can transform into animals, which gives a neat duality to the two sets of characters.
3. Breadth of characters - Transformers has LOTS of characters and on the whole, a wider universe. There are characters that aren't being used currently in the other books or haven't been used recently that can be used without taking characters away from other books and creators.
4. The Talisman and Onyx Prime - Now this is more my prediction, but I bet my bottom dollar it's true. The Talisman, an artifact that was on Cybertron during the time of the Thirteen and was in the care of Onyx Prime, and which is powerful enough to destroy Cybertronians. Soundwave was drawn to the Talisman back in Revolutionaries #3, which led him to the Tomb of Amtoltec, which was adorned with a certain hexagonal symbol. Garrison Kreiger described the Talisman as "magic" in a story which was originally planned to be included in Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook #3, which had a subscription cover featuring the Revolutionaries, Optimus Prime, and a silhouetted Leoric. Anyone with half a brain can see that the Talisman is in some way connected to the Visionaries. However, it also has a connection to the Transformers. As such, any exploration of the Talisman's connection with the Visionaries would also require the exploration as to how it was connected to Onyx Prime (who ironically or purposefully, rules the Cybertronians that can turn into animals.) And who is the big bad that John Barber has been building up for several years now? Onyx Prime. Everything is about Onyx Prime. It's clear that Transformers vs. Visionaries is not some slap-dash bullshit made for the solely to force you to buy another comic book or launch a franchise. It is made to tell a story and advance the over-arching narrative of the Transformers books.

On the other hand, I can think of several reasons why ROM wasn't.
1. Smaller fanbase - Transformers has more readers than ROM. This is a (disappointing) fact, and goes against the marketing reason I mentioned above. It's bad enough the book is getting folded together with the Micronauts as ROM & The Micronauts, but it sure as hell couldn't support a third title. Not to mention, Rom is only one character rather than a huge franchise.
2. Earth - ROM is currently set on Earth, where Rom is fighting the Dire Wraiths. However, any arrival of (more) extraterrestrials on Earth would have to involve not only Rom, but G.I. Joe as well. And likely M.A.S.K. considering they're basically part of G.I. Joe. Not to mention the inevitable blow-back this will have with the Transformers considering recent events in Optimus Prime and how Earth is now part of the Council of Worlds. At that point, you might as well throw in the Micronauts and make it another event.
3. ROM's plot - Rom has too much plot as it is already. First we have the primary motivation of Rom and his war against the Wraiths. However, as of right now we also have Livia and Orphion on Earth, Darby Mason hunting down Dire Wraiths on her own, Camilla Byers fighting against her Dire Wraith infection, the coming arrival of the Presence, Caleb Awan's plans with Countdown and Axiom, and Beachhead and Grunt hunting down Rom because they think he's a threat to the world. And on top of all of that, the Micronauts are now going to be playing a part when the book gets relaunched. The only reason that ROM Vs. Transformers is able to exist is because it takes place in the past.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:37 am

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I want the Rom book to have more plot, actually. The Annual and recent back-up stories have really enriched a kinda safe/by the numbers Earth story - which made sense for the Earthfall arc, to be fair!
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:05 am

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ScottyP wrote:I want the Rom book to have more plot, actually. The Annual and recent back-up stories have really enriched a kinda safe/by the numbers Earth story - which made sense for the Earthfall arc, to be fair!


I'd agree on this. And again, some editorial input on Ryall (self-declared biggest Rom fan around, Adkins, prove him wrong) might actually help that along beyond filling in gaps in corollary issues.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:07 am

MORE plot? When the plot threads we already have (Darby and Camilla in particular) barely get enough time to actually develop?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:03 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:MORE plot? When the plot threads we already have (Darby and Camilla in particular) barely get enough time to actually develop?
We're in agreement, actually! I'd also be ok with more depth to the existing plot :)
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IDW Transformers vs Visionaries New Leoric and Virulina Designs by Fico Ossio

Postby Va'al » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:52 am

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Via IDW artist Fico Ossio, a regular in the Hasbro Universe since before the Revolution event, we have some in progress art for the upcoming new series that will introduce a new franchise to the Hasbro roster, alongside the Transformers: Visionaries!

Ossio so far has shown Virulina, the main character from all we've seen so far, and Leoric, both radically redesigned from the original series. The promotional material for the book, called Transformers vs Visionaries, currently pits the two factions directly against each other - but will that be the case in the series itself? Check out the images below, join our discussion in the Energon Pub, and let's have some more magic vs technology fights going on.

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IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Sneak Peak!

Postby Bounti76 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:31 am

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Also coming to us from Seibertronian Sunstar (via the Twitter account of IDW assistant editor David Mariotte), we got a sneak peak into IDW's upcoming miniseries Transformers vs Visionaries! It was kind of snuck into the larger panel from the 'Till All Are One annual we reported on here in the same tweet, but we get a couple of panels featuring Kup, Ironhide, and two of the Visionaries themselves! This series will be written by Magdalene Visaggio and art will be provided by Fico Ossio, who drew the Revolutionaries series and also, the first issue of Miconauts. The first issue of Transformers vs. Visionaries should be coming out next month!

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What do you think of these couple of images? Will you be buying the series? Let us know below!
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby dragons » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:13 am

Kip in last panel looks to human non transformer likeness in face if it wasn’t for body connected to Kip body I say it was human but car parts give it away show it transformer with human face
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby snavej » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:31 am

Kip in last panel looks to human non transformer likeness in face if it wasn’t for body connected to Kip body I say it was human but car parts give it away show it transformer with human face


You mean 'Kup'. I just had a kip and now I feel rested. :D
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Stormshot_Prime » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:31 am

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Looks like Kup and Ironhide are in the New Prysmos we saw Krieger (or whoever) create within Cybertron
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:07 pm

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Looks like the Universal Greeting is about to work every time!
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Mr.MicroMaster » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:21 pm

Why do I have a suspicious idea the plot of Transformers vs Visionaries is just Visionaries blame the transformers for the death of their world or people, so they attack. But maybe twist of all twist it was somebody else. Or maybe I'm just crazy.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #188 - Mutinous Intent
Twincast / Podcast #188:
"Mutinous Intent"
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Posted: Monday, November 13th, 2017