IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue May 01, 2018 3:18 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:What it comes down to is unless a Licensed property has a huge and/or cult following, it is essentially a higher profile platform for a given writer to tell a story they want to make.

No one out there says Visionaries was "their childhood" in the way those would of Transformers, He-Man, TMNT, Thundercats etc Even Rom had a decade or two of relative success within Marvel Comics. That afforded a lot of liberties to be taken using the cache of the name "Visionaries". This is the result.

Exactly. Time will tell what they'll attempt to do with this next.

@Primalxconvoy yes but the point is in terms of scale, Visionairies is quite far down the list in terms of how prominent they are in memories and how large the fan bases are. It's not a pleasant thing of course and I know the feeling as I'm a fan of a few things that are considered dead more or less but I would appreciate it if a company tried to resurrect them, even by trying something new. As I've said before, the old comics and figures are still there, waiting to be found and can still sit along side these new versions the same as g1 prime can stand alongside prime from the studio series.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Tue May 01, 2018 3:36 pm

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Indeed. And yet, this series of comics seems to have failed to engage the fans, just as the MASK comics also failed. I think the changes to the core characters were part of that failure.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Tue May 01, 2018 4:16 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Or it could have been a simple case of them being shoe-horned into a shared universe and then being forced to fit into that universe which resulted in incredibly sub-par writing.

Or, the franchises simply aren't as popular as people thought they were.

>:oP
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed May 02, 2018 1:19 am

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Burn wrote:Or it could have been a simple case of them being shoe-horned into a shared universe and then being forced to fit into that universe which resulted in incredibly sub-par writing.

Or, the franchises simply aren't as popular as people thought they were.

>:oP

While t v V is definitely sub par beyond sub par, I think it's the latter that went down here. Mask actually makes sense in the hasbroverse but the writers squandered it and with having a very limited fan bases already. The other possibility is that IDW isn't popular enough to revive dead franchises, they are good but they still have a long way to go. I can't remember if they are ahead if Valiant in terms of ranking in the industry.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Wed May 02, 2018 3:13 am

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
ZeroWolf wrote:The other possibility is that IDW isn't popular enough to revive dead franchises, they are good but they still have a long way to go. I can't remember if they are ahead if Valiant in terms of ranking in the industry.

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed May 02, 2018 6:00 am

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Thanks burn, not too shabby then though it would take a lot to beat image and take third place
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 02, 2018 6:14 am

Valiant and Dark Horse deserve to be higher. Although Disney probably halved Dark Horse revenue, when they reappropriated Star Wars and recently bought Conan too. Whereas Modern day Valiant is equivalent to Golden Age Marvel. Pre-Bankruptcy and before they sold their soul to Disney.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Wed May 02, 2018 3:24 pm

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Well that was a happy happy joy joy ending.

ugh ... I can't even be bothered writing about it. It's over, thank ****.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 02, 2018 3:30 pm

Burn wrote:Well that was a happy happy joy joy ending.

ugh ... I can't even be bothered writing about it. It's over, thank ****.



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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Wed May 02, 2018 4:47 pm

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IDW Transformers Vs. Visionaries #5 Review

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 pm

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And Then There Was Nothing
A Somewhat Spoilerish Seibertron.com Review of IDW's Transformers Vs. Visionaries #5


Synopsis

The final fate of Cybertron! Leoric and the drill team, on a mission to stop the destruction of the planet, reach the core—only to be met by Virulina and her Darkling Lords! Now, the two sides are locked in a final battle to determine whether Cybertron sees tomorrow. Everything comes to a head in this thrilling conclusion!


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[i]Witterquick has totally heard this noise before


Story

Well it's finally the end, the fate of the Transformers homeworld is at stake(again...) thanks to an alien race, and once again it feels like a disappointment. This has been done, been there, done that, it's how we even got to this story. It was an attack on Cybertron's core from First Strike that got us to this point (that and some very bad editing decisions made between the 2, looking at you New Prysmos forcefield) and it is another attack here that finally ends the series. And it is thanks to that first attack that the final attack of the current IDW run (Unicron) will occur.

To be honest, these series should have had potential, but it just floundered it. The Visionaries are a not overly well known group of characters from a single season TV show back in the 1980's. With so few people even knowing what they are, you need to capture the attention of the readers looking for new characters to love. And this series did not do that.

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Pictured: characters aware they really haven't helped themselves to be popular


There were many chances to try, but nothing ever caught on. Killing Kup in issue 1 certainly did not help, especially with how good he had been in the crossovers. Let's face it: he was the Crossover go-to Bot, and you killed him. It didn't help that some of the Bot's personalities in this were a bit wonky too.

And it most certainly didn't help that the Visionaries themselves were all over the board, not overly lovable or consistent. We had a character who was a good guy apparently actually be a traitor, yet he was tortured by the bad guy despite being a bad guy too? See, hard to reason.

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Pictured: a villain who did little to be anything more than hated


I was also not a fan of the way the final bit of the series panned out. Leoric finally decides to become the spokesperson, the guy everyone rallies around, and it felt flat. He didn't do anything. We do get to see on the way too rare transformations from Visionary Bipedal to magic totem animal, but even then it doesn't last, and Virulina never uses her totem. I think only like 3 guys actually used their animal shape-shifting powers or something? They were that rare.

And then of course it turns out that Virulina and Leoric were actually meant to do this so another bad can use them both to ensure a proper future. Yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, the battle of the core, the thing advertised in the Synopsis, wasn't really a thing. It was disappointing. Only 2 of the big names were even there, and they weren't even the 2 big names. And of course in a story based around magic, everything comes down to magic, but in this case it was not clever magic. The whole series revolved around magic, and not once did it ever really feel "magical" and instead feeling like "not overly good writing and not really understanding how to make this work." The parts about helping each other and actually getting along felt quite forced in this area too, as did the ones at the very end.

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Pictured: a well loved character that is sort of just here


But in short, the story didn't satisfy anything, and it was a disappointing return for the Visionaries.

Art

Art for the story was once more taken on by Fico Ossio with colors by David Garcia Cruz and lettered by Shawn Lee. The art is the part of the book that sort of pulls it back a hair, seeing as how Ossio's art is fairly good, with some interesting stylizations. I am particularly fond of his Leoric and Virulina, and most of the visionaries. The shame is the one Visionary I do like, Galadria, is the one that really isn't drawn well. Her facial expressions just aren't that good.

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She really wishes Ironhide would have spared himself and stayed in a different book


The Transformers do suffer some in the art department as well, with Ossio being better with organic looking beings than mechanical. Again, it's the faces that really don't look that good.

The colors are pretty good as well, especially with the scenery. But again, the bots feel flat and suffer some. Which is a shame considering the Visionaries and the scenery do actually appear decent.

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Pictured: 2 things I did like


Final Thoughts

Honestly, this series didn't do it for me at all. There really wasn't a lot going for it from stage one, and it never overcame that first bump. It's a series that should have done better, and had the potential cool factor of shape shifting humanoids who can turn into magical animals and who are basically wizards, but squandered it. I wish the series could have been handled better, or had occurred at a better time or using a different set of circumstances. All the past year or 2 have been are Cybertronians being threatened in Crossovers, with Cybertron itself being the center of the past 2 and will be center stage for the final one. The story really needed a different story set away from Cybertron, or set in the past, much like ROM vs. Transformers, itself a great series. And it needed more likable characters.

It needed the hook, and never presented one. And again I say what a shame that is.

:HASBRO: 1/2 out of :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO:
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Wed May 02, 2018 8:40 pm

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I'm ready to move on from this experiment. The final issue had some potential and just, I don't know what happened. Overbooked with nothingburger characters and a plot that, in the long run, looks to just plain not matter.

That's all I've got to say about this one forever. On to Unicron!
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Wed May 02, 2018 8:52 pm

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I will pick up hte 5th book on saturday (I would not have bought it but my husband picked up the other 4 two weeeks ago) I am glad to see the end of this dreadful series. The colours were nice, but I was not at all drawn in by the art or what they were doing. My only hope is Unicron eats them first.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrewing » Thu May 03, 2018 3:38 am

The name was very ironic given that whoever thought this was a good idea was apparently blind.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Thu May 03, 2018 6:34 am

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Sabrewing wrote:The name was very ironic given that whoever thought this was a good idea was apparently blind.
Perfect post :APPLAUSE:
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Knight » Thu May 03, 2018 8:47 am

I found the original Visionaries Cartoon online to watch, just haven't don it yet, but I'm still meaning to. The concept seems like it could be good though, but I have to agree that the follow through in this series is Awful. The character design are pretty bad too. The only one I even remotely liked is the Dolphin chick, whose name I can't even remember. Not that that matters, I can't remember any of the names.

It seems like this is a series that would have done better to start outside of transformers and developed their world and characters before throwing them in with the Transformers Cannon Fodder, I mean Transformers characters.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu May 03, 2018 12:40 pm

Just to pick up on a point from the review. So the Visionaries - Knights of the Magical Light (the full title, FYI) rarely use their central gimmick? Who approved this????
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu May 03, 2018 2:02 pm

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Hasbro, which should illustrate that they don't care much about them.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Seibertron » Tue May 08, 2018 1:31 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Just to pick up on a point from the review. So the Visionaries - Knights of the Magical Light (the full title, FYI) rarely use their central gimmick? Who approved this????


Kind of like how rarely Transformers transform in IDW comics?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Knight » Tue May 08, 2018 6:26 am

Seibertron wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Just to pick up on a point from the review. So the Visionaries - Knights of the Magical Light (the full title, FYI) rarely use their central gimmick? Who approved this????


Kind of like how rarely Transformers transform in IDW comics?


Well you know, it's too much of an effort to draw transforming Transformers.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue May 08, 2018 8:40 am

Rodimus Knight wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Just to pick up on a point from the review. So the Visionaries - Knights of the Magical Light (the full title, FYI) rarely use their central gimmick? Who approved this????


Kind of like how rarely Transformers transform in IDW comics?


Well you know, it's too much of an effort to draw transforming Transformers.



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Touché on both counts :APPLAUSE:
I have noticed, reading the post-DoOP series through the part work, how little people seem to be bothered to show altmodes, beyond scene transitions. Gets in the way of all those Talking Heads and Guffaws, I suppose.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Actually I think it's a question of when is an alt mode needed? If it comes to a scene, should you put an alt mode in just for the sake of having an alt mode? Id rather have an alt mode be there for a purpose. There name may be Transformers but it shouldn't come at the expense of the story.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue May 08, 2018 10:09 am

Not at the expense no, but it should be intrinsically linked to the story by default. For example, Devastation. When Sixshot arrives on Earth, that entire sequence is Transformers. In concept, execution and stakes. Likewise whenever Thunderwing shows up in Stormbringer. It's the core of what they are. If you are writing Transformers without transforming in mind, why are writing the series at all?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Tue May 08, 2018 10:57 am

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The only time it bugs me is when characters that could drive or fly run towards their destination instead. I think the answer to the rest is just authors focusing on making a good story first. I could argue the point further but I think it's probably futile.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue May 08, 2018 11:01 am

Surely the authors should focus on making a good Transformers story. It would be like writing X-Men and never using Mutant powers. It's the primary gimmick of their world, how to apply it as organically as possible should be a primary consideration, in parallel to story ideas.
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