The Energon Pub

Starscream GaGa wrote:And I find your passion about this crappy film truly concerning.

Is there a need for you to be so ... condescending?

Tekka wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:And yes, Sam had no knowledge of what the cube sliver in his posession could do until Wheelie said it would wake up Jetfire. It didn't even do that good a job if you saw Jetfire's state after getting a shot of energy from it. Most likely it wouldn't even work on a dead Transformer. There's also the fact that cube sliver was largely "drained" when it's knowlege and power was absorbed by Sam.

I'll say it again. He was with the Autobots, there is no reason they wouldn't know what the shard could do. Also, LOL you think lame old-man comedy is actually a plot-device? No. And where is this evidence that the shard was drained by Sam?

I guess that makes Wheelie, Cybertron's lore keeper? lol.

Well technically the Decepticons did know more about Cybertronian lore due to having one of the original Primes in their number. So yeah.

Starscream GaGa wrote:And I find your passion about this crappy film truly concerning.

So we're back to insults?

Starscream GaGa wrote:If thinking that much thought went into that scene helps you sleep at night, more power to you. Seriously.

And more insults.

Starscream GaGa wrote:I'll say it again. He was with the Autobots, there is no reason they wouldn't know what the shard could do. Also, LOL you think lame old-man comedy is actually a plot-device? No. And where is this evidence that the shard was drained by Sam?

Optimus up and says that most ancient Cybertronian history was lost during the war. The Allspark would have helped them retrieve it but it was destroyed. And yes, Jetfire was integral to the plot. Lemme list the ways.

1. Could read the symbols in Sam's head
2. Pointed them on a path toward the Sun Harvester and the Matrix
3. Gave Optimus the power up he needed to kill the Fallen and stop the Sun Harvester.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue.

Starscream GaGa wrote:And becuase the majority have read the novel, this is an excellent example intelligent script writing! Oh wait... That's wrong.

I could have said the other obvious choice, that the Matrix functions similarly to the Allspark (something Jetfire all but states), but I wanted to go with what I read. Obviously from your responses neither answer would be acceptible.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:And yes, Sam had no knowledge of what the cube sliver in his posession could do until Wheelie said it would wake up Jetfire. It didn't even do that good a job if you saw Jetfire's state after getting a shot of energy from it. Most likely it wouldn't even work on a dead Transformer. There's also the fact that cube sliver was largely "drained" when it's knowlege and power was absorbed by Sam.

I'll say it again. He was with the Autobots, there is no reason they wouldn't know what the shard could do. Also, LOL you think lame old-man comedy is actually a plot-device? No. And where is this evidence that the shard was drained by Sam?

I guess that makes Wheelie, Cybertron's lore keeper? lol.

Well technically the Decepticons did know more about Cybertronian lore due to having one of the original Primes in their number. So yeah.

Oh yes, he was a Decepticon in this wasn't he. I completely forgot that! Still, for a dismal character like Wheelie the leg humper to be more knowledgeable than the elite of the Autobot forces... ~_~; Eh... But then they DID spend a good ten minutes dancing around a house like a bunch of buffoons. Maybe Wheelie really is the smartest one there.

Ok for those who weren't paying attention; For the Allspark the smaller the piece it becomes , the less power it has. But based off of what you say....facts. If entire allspark can remake planets then it's not too outlandish a piece that's about an 1/8 of it could revive a single transformer.

It was obvious the Allspark could not fix cybertron in it's reduced condtion. otherwise the Autobots would have just used what remained to go home and fix their planet. So this establishes this statement to be true.

We continue to see this as the splinter that Sam has is much smaller than the original cube, and only brings back a handful of kitchen appliances when he sets it off on accident. When he dropped the cube, it transformed EVERYTHING in the radius it could. The full cube had a much larger radius and effected larger objects such as Mountain Dew and a freaking Escalade. When it happened in Sam's house his Fridge and other larger appliances weren't effected. Had it been the full cube it probably would have transformed his entire house's technology. The first floor at very least.

So with all that said, the fragment Sam had probably wasn't able to revive optimus since he was totally dead. The full Allspark was able to fully repair frenzy from just a head. The larger piece of it could revive Megatron, but still required additional pieces of other Decepticons to fix him. When Jetfire was revived, he was just in Stasis lock (not dead like Optimus or Megatron), and was still far from fully functional. His missiles went backwards heh. We saw lesser effects with each smaller piece. So I don't see it as a plot hole at all. it they grab our hand and point all this out for us no...but any one paying attention can logically deduce all this based off what was shown.

Scared? Nope. My opinion of it can't be worse than that of RotF.

Lastjustice wrote:Ok for those who weren't paying attention; For the Allspark the smaller the piece it becomes , the less power it has. But based off of what you say....facts. If entire allspark can remake planets then it's not too outlandish a piece that's about an 1/8 of it could revive a single transformer.

It was obvious the Allspark could not fix cybertron in it's reduced condtion. otherwise the Autobots would have just used what remained to go home and fix their planet. So this establishes this statement to be true.

We continue to see this as the splinter that Sam has is much smaller than the original cube, and only brings back a handful of kitchen appliances when he sets it off on accident. When he dropped the cube, it transformed EVERYTHING in the radius it could. The full cube had a much larger radius and effected larger objects such as Mountain Dew and a freaking Escalade. When it happened in Sam's house his Fridge and other larger appliances weren't effected. Had it been the full cube it probably would have transformed his entire house's technology. The first floor at very least.

So with all that said, the fragment Sam had probably wasn't able to revive optimus since he was totally dead. The full Allspark was able to fully repair frenzy from just a head. The larger piece of it could revive Megatron, but still required additional pieces of other Decepticons to fix him. When Jetfire was revived, he was just in Stasis lock (not dead like Optimus or Megatron), and was still far from fully functional. His missiles went backwards heh. We saw lesser effects with each smaller piece. So I don't see it as a plot hole at all. it they grab our hand and point all this out for us no...but any one paying attention can logically deduce all this based off what was shown.

So, what where those plotholes again?

SlyTF1 wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:Ok for those who weren't paying attention; For the Allspark the smaller the piece it becomes , the less power it has. But based off of what you say....facts. If entire allspark can remake planets then it's not too outlandish a piece that's about an 1/8 of it could revive a single transformer.

It was obvious the Allspark could not fix cybertron in it's reduced condtion. otherwise the Autobots would have just used what remained to go home and fix their planet. So this establishes this statement to be true.

We continue to see this as the splinter that Sam has is much smaller than the original cube, and only brings back a handful of kitchen appliances when he sets it off on accident. When he dropped the cube, it transformed EVERYTHING in the radius it could. The full cube had a much larger radius and effected larger objects such as Mountain Dew and a freaking Escalade. When it happened in Sam's house his Fridge and other larger appliances weren't effected. Had it been the full cube it probably would have transformed his entire house's technology. The first floor at very least.

So with all that said, the fragment Sam had probably wasn't able to revive optimus since he was totally dead. The full Allspark was able to fully repair frenzy from just a head. The larger piece of it could revive Megatron, but still required additional pieces of other Decepticons to fix him. When Jetfire was revived, he was just in Stasis lock (not dead like Optimus or Megatron), and was still far from fully functional. His missiles went backwards heh. We saw lesser effects with each smaller piece. So I don't see it as a plot hole at all. it they grab our hand and point all this out for us no...but any one paying attention can logically deduce all this based off what was shown.

So, what where those plotholes again?

There are none, just people who don't pay attention then cry plot hole to the people who did. Of course we're the wrong ones though.

Capt.Failure wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:Ok for those who weren't paying attention; For the Allspark the smaller the piece it becomes , the less power it has. But based off of what you say....facts. If entire allspark can remake planets then it's not too outlandish a piece that's about an 1/8 of it could revive a single transformer.

It was obvious the Allspark could not fix cybertron in it's reduced condtion. otherwise the Autobots would have just used what remained to go home and fix their planet. So this establishes this statement to be true.

We continue to see this as the splinter that Sam has is much smaller than the original cube, and only brings back a handful of kitchen appliances when he sets it off on accident. When he dropped the cube, it transformed EVERYTHING in the radius it could. The full cube had a much larger radius and effected larger objects such as Mountain Dew and a freaking Escalade. When it happened in Sam's house his Fridge and other larger appliances weren't effected. Had it been the full cube it probably would have transformed his entire house's technology. The first floor at very least.

So with all that said, the fragment Sam had probably wasn't able to revive optimus since he was totally dead. The full Allspark was able to fully repair frenzy from just a head. The larger piece of it could revive Megatron, but still required additional pieces of other Decepticons to fix him. When Jetfire was revived, he was just in Stasis lock (not dead like Optimus or Megatron), and was still far from fully functional. His missiles went backwards heh. We saw lesser effects with each smaller piece. So I don't see it as a plot hole at all. it they grab our hand and point all this out for us no...but any one paying attention can logically deduce all this based off what was shown.

So, what where those plotholes again?

There are none, just people who don't pay attention then cry plot hole to the people who did. Of course we're the wrong ones though.

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

Movies abridge travel time all the time. Many movies also suffer from simpsons geography where things dont go exactly where they go together in real life. Basically everything drives at the speed of the plot.

Besides it's no worse than G1 where they would drive from the arctic circle or south america and back with in the same episode. Nothing was outside driving distance in G1.

Lastjustice wrote:

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

Movies abridge travel time all the time. Many movies also suffer from simpsons geography where things dont go exactly where they go together in real life. Basically everything drives at the speed of the plot.

Besides it's no worse than G1 where they would drive from the arctic circle or south america and back with in the same episode. Nothing was outside driving distance in G1.

Yes, thank you for that. Being an Anime fan for over half my life, I'm more than mentally equipped for suspension of disbelief at this point. That doesn't change there being a factual error in the movie however.

Also, why bring up G1 again? How does that in any way support the defence? Forgive me for being crass but; "It happened in G1 too so it must be okay, durr hurr."?

Tekka wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

Movies abridge travel time all the time. Many movies also suffer from simpsons geography where things dont go exactly where they go together in real life. Basically everything drives at the speed of the plot.

Besides it's no worse than G1 where they would drive from the arctic circle or south america and back with in the same episode. Nothing was outside driving distance in G1.

Yes, thank you for that. Being an Anime fan for over half my life, I'm more than mentally equipped for suspension of disbelief at this point. That doesn't change there being a factual error in the movie however.

Also, why bring up G1 again? How does that in any way support the defence? Forgive me for being crass but; "It happened in G1 too so it must be okay, durr hurr."?

It's brought up because most of the time if it happened in G1 it's totally excusable in the eyes of those who dislike the movieverse.

Example:

G1 - Autobots drive from wherever the Ark crashed to the north pole and back and have Spike home in time for dinner.
G1 Fans: I'm ok with this.

RotF - Bumblebee and the Twins drive from Jordan to Egypt in a few hours.
G1 Fans: OMGWTF PLOT HOLES WORST MOVIE EVER BLARLEARGHL!!!1!111!1

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

Movies abridge travel time all the time. Many movies also suffer from simpsons geography where things dont go exactly where they go together in real life. Basically everything drives at the speed of the plot.

Besides it's no worse than G1 where they would drive from the arctic circle or south america and back with in the same episode. Nothing was outside driving distance in G1.

Yes, thank you for that. Being an Anime fan for over half my life, I'm more than mentally equipped for suspension of disbelief at this point. That doesn't change there being a factual error in the movie however.

Also, why bring up G1 again? How does that in any way support the defence? Forgive me for being crass but; "It happened in G1 too so it must be okay, durr hurr."?

It's brought up because most of the time if it happened in G1 it's totally excusable in the eyes of those who dislike the movieverse.

Another fallacy. Excusable to whom? It's certainly not excusable to me, a fan of G1. As a matter of fact I take GREAT pleasure in discussing and ridiculing the hilarious flaws and bloopers in the cartoon just as much as I do any other series.

You consider yourself a connoisseur of intelligent debate, yes? Arbitrary points that have no relevance to the subject at hand are not useful in any way to any party. You should know this.

Tekka wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:

I will acknowledge that pretty much all (sorry S.GaGa) of what has been challenged is incorrect. But there is one actual plot hole that so far remains unresolved. The whole driving from Jordan to Egypt in a few minutes thing. That is a plot hole right? They don't have a super secret TF:P ground bridge knocking around or anything.

Movies abridge travel time all the time. Many movies also suffer from simpsons geography where things dont go exactly where they go together in real life. Basically everything drives at the speed of the plot.

Besides it's no worse than G1 where they would drive from the arctic circle or south america and back with in the same episode. Nothing was outside driving distance in G1.

Yes, thank you for that. Being an Anime fan for over half my life, I'm more than mentally equipped for suspension of disbelief at this point. That doesn't change there being a factual error in the movie however.

Also, why bring up G1 again? How does that in any way support the defence? Forgive me for being crass but; "It happened in G1 too so it must be okay, durr hurr."?

It's brought up because most of the time if it happened in G1 it's totally excusable in the eyes of those who dislike the movieverse.

Another fallacy. Excusable to whom? It's certainly not excusable to me, a fan of G1. As a matter of fact I take GREAT pleasure in discussing and ridiculing the hilarious flaws and bloopers in the cartoon just as much as I do any other series.

You consider yourself a connoisseur of intelligent debate, yes? Arbitrary points that have no relevance to the subject at hand are not useful in any way to any party. You should know this.

Maybe not to you but you've proven yourself to be a reasonable, rational individual. You can't deny that this is the case with the vast majority who didn't like the films. I've been told before that "the designs suck because they wouldn't work that way in real life." This was by a diehard G1 fan back in 2007. He rationalized that the G1 designs, which involved pulling and shoving mass out of one's tailpipe and bore zero regard for the bits and pieces of a character between vehicle and robot mode are somehow more accurate to real world physics than what is present in the movies, which were designed with realism (in a sci-fi sense) in mind.

I hold no qualms making the previous accusation after hearing that, let alone over something as simple as a geography goof.

Capt.Failure wrote:Maybe not to you but you've proven yourself to be a reasonable, rational individual. You can't deny that this is the case with the vast majority who didn't like the films. I've been told before that "the designs suck because they wouldn't work that way in real life." This was by a diehard G1 fan back in 2007. He rationalized that the G1 designs, which involved pulling and shoving mass out of one's tailpipe and bore zero regard for the bits and pieces of a character between vehicle and robot mode are somehow more accurate to real world physics than what is present in the movies, which were designed with realism (in a sci-fi sense) in mind.

I hold no qualms making the previous accusation after hearing that, let alone over something as simple as a geography goof.

Yes there are a lot of ignorant numpties out there, I can't deny that. But at the same time you can't apply this to the "majority" because there's no way to prove that it's true. I'm sure you'd be equally unappreciative if I referred to the majority of movie lovers as being shouty men like SlyTF1 rather than say, yourself and Lastjustice.

Simple geography goof, yes. I'll be the first to admit it's not a big deal, I only want to point out that there are mistakes even in this professional production. There are various other errors like appearing and disappearing objects and characters, but they can't be considered plot holes, just bloopers.

"Nothing's perfect." I guess that's the crux of this whole mess.

Tekka wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Maybe not to you but you've proven yourself to be a reasonable, rational individual. You can't deny that this is the case with the vast majority who didn't like the films. I've been told before that "the designs suck because they wouldn't work that way in real life." This was by a diehard G1 fan back in 2007. He rationalized that the G1 designs, which involved pulling and shoving mass out of one's tailpipe and bore zero regard for the bits and pieces of a character between vehicle and robot mode are somehow more accurate to real world physics than what is present in the movies, which were designed with realism (in a sci-fi sense) in mind.

I hold no qualms making the previous accusation after hearing that, let alone over something as simple as a geography goof.

Yes there are a lot of ignorant numpties out there, I can't deny that. But at the same time you can't apply this to the "majority" because there's no way to prove that it's true. I'm sure you'd be equally unappreciative if I referred to the majority of movie lovers as being shouty men like SlyTF1 rather than say, yourself and Lastjustice.

Simple geography goof, yes. I'll be the first to admit it's not a big deal, I only want to point out that there are mistakes even in this professional production. There are various other errors like appearing and disappearing objects and characters, but they can't be considered plot holes, just bloopers.

"Nothing's perfect." I guess that's the crux of this whole mess.

HEY! I'm not shouty! I'm snarky. Big difference.

And you're right, saying the majority is going a little far but I can only work with what the other side usually gives me to work with. But you're right about the "nothing's perfect" angle. It's just a matter of those who accept it being unable to get along with those who don't.

Mind you that could lead back to the "swallowing Michael Bay's tripe" arguement. Tossing aside the good/bad arguement, what matters on an individual level is whether you were entertained. If you were, the film's not "tripe," and trying to tell someone who enjoyed it that it is will only cause the cycle to continue as will telling them back that it isn't.

Such is discussion on the internet.

And that's all folks.

End of line?

im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked and

I have tried to debate the merits of the movies on a rational, reasonable, logical level, without resorting to personalised insults or wide ranging stereotyping

in return they have responded as follows:

- called me a troll (because i disagreed with their opinion)
- Called me a liar
- Ranted angrily about a point i never even made
- Called me a bullsh1ter and a spoofer
- misquoted and misintepreted points i made to fit their argument
- refuted my argument by saying, essentially, because i said so.

So when they come on here and say that the majority of movie dislikers are reactionary and offensive, i take it with a pinch of salt and believe they should look at their houses.

As for being scared that a movie wont be as good as the previous two, no i nownt be , because i am an adult with a life, and it will pass off me like water off a ducks back.

shamone wrote:So when they come on here and say that the majority of movie dislikers are reactionary and offensive, i take it with a pinch of salt and believe they should look at their houses.

There are some movie-lovers here on Seibertron who cry louder than any Geewunner, and take the role of defending their movie way too serious - I've seen too much topics go wild because of them.

Chaoslock wrote:

shamone wrote:So when they come on here and say that the majority of movie dislikers are reactionary and offensive, i take it with a pinch of salt and believe they should look at their houses.

There are some movie-lovers here on Seibertron who cry louder than any Geewunner, and take the role of defending their movie way too serious - I've seen too much topics go wild because of them.

that is my point

but and this is the crucial point, not all movie fans are like that, and i wouldnt tar then all with the same brush.

shamone wrote:im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked

I sure as hell am. I had another dream; a few days before I had a dream about DOTM where I was being hunted down and killed because I liked the movies. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what my dream was about.

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked

I sure as hell am. I had another dream; a few days before I had a dream about DOTM where I was being hunted down and killed because I liked the movies. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what my dream was about.

I never know when you are serious or not, so for my own sanity im just going to assume you are joking again

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked

I sure as hell am. I had another dream; a few days before I had a dream about DOTM where I was being hunted down and killed because I liked the movies. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what my dream was about.

I never know when you are serious or not, so for my own sanity im just going to assume you are joking again

I'm not joking. I can't help what the hell I dream about.

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked

I sure as hell am. I had another dream; a few days before I had a dream about DOTM where I was being hunted down and killed because I liked the movies. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what my dream was about.

I never know when you are serious or not, so for my own sanity im just going to assume you are joking again

I'm not joking. I can't help what the hell I dream about.

well then you needto relax and unwind, and not get so worked up.

End of day no one really cares what you think about the movie, and if you enjoy them so be it.

Its not a big deal

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this thread has been bewilderng.

I cant honestly beleive that slytf and capt failure are actually arguing that movie lovers are oppressed, attacked

I sure as hell am. I had another dream; a few days before I had a dream about DOTM where I was being hunted down and killed because I liked the movies. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what my dream was about.

You seriously need psychiatric help.

I'm not joking.

I have a dream, that one day little Michael Bay's Transformers loving children will be able to play with little Beast Wars loving children, and G1 loving children, and all agree that Beast Machines is a bit rubbish.