Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

So while I was upgrading Nero Lupus (so now he's one off L1) I started thinking about the players I'd encountered who had more than enough exp to jump to level 1 (probably had enough to jump higher than that). Is there really any point in staying at level 0 longer than you have to? I'm hoping to have all my team at L1 by the end of next week (if I can accomplish it is a different matter) and I just can't wrap my head around why some would just stay with the beginning missions when there's still mUch more to discover.

Well you don't get beat up by level 11's.
Of course you don't get beat up be level 2's either. I hear they're a mean bunch.
But then you have the opportunity to hit higher levels.

I mean sure, you can sit there at level 0. Beat up another level 0? WOOHOO!! 100xp!
Beat up a level 1? WOOHOO!! 200xp!
Beat up a level 2? WOOHOO!! 400xp!

You get the idea.

The ONLY reason I see to stay at level 0 is to rack up a bit of extra XP so you can hit level 1 with a few extra upgrades to actually give you a chance to fight.

I see no other reason to stay at level 0.

Level 0: Free CR. Lowest EXP and Energon pay out.
Level 1: A chance to scratch a level 11 and earn more EXP in one go than a 0 does in a day or more. Pay for CR.

That sums it up. If you want to earn EXP and Energon quicker, level up. If you enjoy not having to worry about CR costs, stay a 0.

Everyone plays differently, but I would never suggest staying at level 0 as it is totally isolated from the rest of the game. Level 1 is hard work and you'll get your arse kicked a lot, but as AZ said, one scratch on a level 11 and you get a weeks XP fron one mission.

The difference in xp payout between lvl 0 and lvl1+ missions makes staying in lvl 0 a ridiculous prospect in my opinion.

Before the XP/Level Caps, before the game was adjusted so that players couldn't go into negative Energon, there was the... I hesitate to use the word, but 'exploit' is the closest thing I can come up with, where players at higher levels (3, 4, etc.) would sometimes drop a TF or two down to level zero to build back up their Energon supply if they were low or had (gasp-horror) run into the negatives (because the game wouldn't let a player CR a TF if they were broke or less). From what I've gathered, that was changed a few years ago, so there's not much of a point to it now.

Actually, there was a discussion in another thread about how it now seems level 0 is almost detrimental to the game because of how it's so separated from the rest of HMW...

Psychout wrote:Everyone plays differently, but I would never suggest staying at level 0 as it is totally isolated from the rest of the game. Level 1 is hard work and you'll get your arse kicked a lot, but as AZ said, one scratch on a level 11 and you get a weeks XP fron one mission.

Nah, Zero'll be fine. There's plenty of level 2's and 3's out there to support him. I'd know -- they kick my butt a lot.

turbomagnus wrote:Before the XP/Level Caps, before the game was adjusted so that players couldn't go into negative Energon, there was the... I hesitate to use the word, but 'exploit' is the closest thing I can come up with, where players at higher levels (3, 4, etc.) would sometimes drop a TF or two down to level zero to build back up their Energon supply if they were low or had (gasp-horror) run into the negatives (because the game wouldn't let a player CR a TF if they were broke or less). From what I've gathered, that was changed a few years ago, so there's not much of a point to it now.

Actually, there was a discussion in another thread about how it now seems level 0 is almost detrimental to the game because of how it's so separated from the rest of HMW...

What do you mean used to? lol

Those caps can be exploited and you can still make a level 0 with 100mil exp. Why you would, I don't know. But you can, and there are still some 100k exp 0s.

As I recall, most of the people who ran into energon problems back in the day were also addicted to Battle Beast Gambling.

Keep in mind though, that chance to scratch a level 11 is about the same as the amount of damage you'll likely do. lol

Absolute Zero wrote:

turbomagnus wrote:Before the XP/Level Caps, before the game was adjusted so that players couldn't go into negative Energon, there was the... I hesitate to use the word, but 'exploit' is the closest thing I can come up with, where players at higher levels (3, 4, etc.) would sometimes drop a TF or two down to level zero to build back up their Energon supply if they were low or had (gasp-horror) run into the negatives (because the game wouldn't let a player CR a TF if they were broke or less). From what I've gathered, that was changed a few years ago, so there's not much of a point to it now.

Actually, there was a discussion in another thread about how it now seems level 0 is almost detrimental to the game because of how it's so separated from the rest of HMW...

What do you mean used to? lol

Those caps can be exploited and you can still make a level 0 with 100mil exp. Why you would, I don't know. But you can, and there are still some 100k exp 0s.

As I recall, most of the people who ran into energon problems back in the day were also addicted to Battle Beast Gambling.

Keep in mind though, that chance to scratch a level 11 is about the same as the amount of damage you'll likely do. lol

True, but it's harder since you can't just hit the reset button and go back to level zero because of the caps, you actually have to actively work to exploit it... (Well, maybe not truly 'harder', but it's no longer automatic, a player has to know that they're doing it now...)


Which, actually, is why low-level Repairers in Hell missions are such XP gainers; they have the chance to both scratch a high level opponent OR heal a high level ally...

Thanks for all the responses I'm looking forward to the greater challenge that comes when I level up, though I'm also looking forward to the greater rewards

turbomagnus wrote:Which, actually, is why low-level Repairers in Hell missions are such XP gainers; they have the chance to both scratch a high level opponent OR heal a high level ally...

Funny enough, I run so many repairers to try to give those low level guys more time to get that chance. lol It's like a circle of healing light from our lord and creator Primus.

Short answer, no.

Long answer, not unless you're an idiot, a coward or have a severe shortage of energon and no mates to bung you some.


Edit:
Looky what a L2 can achieve going up against some L11s:
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... ion_id=232

Wow that's a lot of xp...that's insane

High Command wrote: not unless you're an idiot, a coward.

I don’t think Discharge is either of those.

I’d also like to hear the opinion of someone who has actually stayed at level 0 for a long while.

Burn’s description of staying there in order to farm enough exp for multiple upgrades into the next level sounds about right for people I personally know who stayed at 0 for a while.

like Light Metal stated though, as a Decepticon, you have plenty of backup in the Ground War (lvl 1-3 missions). It wasn’t until recently that the Autobots regained that kind of support after a long while.

but to answer you direct question:
benefits to staying at lvl 0 include free CR and the chance to see how the game works before you’re tossed in over your head in missions that will have you asking things like “how come my bot is so ineffective?!” and “will I ever score anything other than 0 in these missions?”.. level 0 is the start of your path and will show you the benefits of implementing certain stats into your character’s build without turning you off from playing because you’re hilariously overpowered by your peers to the point of frustration.

on a side note, i’m personally a proponent of reinstating 0-1 missions if we ever get a programmer again.

We don't need a programmer, we just need the Control Panel fixed. Thanks for paying attention to all those times this has been stated.

Lol i thought that was for mission texts. excuuuuuuuuuse me

It's the same thing ...

Jack Hallows wrote:Lol i thought that was for mission texts. excuuuuuuuuuse me

Princess?

...sorry I saw what you put and that was the first thing I thought of.

Also I still get the feeling looking at unspent xp and the way the bots were set up...it reminded me more of player killers in other games. Well that and the warcraft episode of South park where the boys stay in the starting area till they are max level, which I would say is against the spirit of the game, but people will play their own way.

Now here's another thing, your opinion on level 0 is a lot different then what others, Jack, as you make it seem that level 0 is a tester...When, as you can see above, it's a grind that I should rush through to get to the real game which is unlike level 0. This is even to the point of some discussions dreaming of replacing level 0 with level 1 status and a set amount of points to spend like in mmorpg and the like.

Finally, looking at your argument jack, would you agree that if cr was free for all then more players would advance?

Jack Hallows wrote:

High Command wrote: not unless you're an idiot, a coward.

I don’t think Discharge is either of those.

I’d also like to hear the opinion of someone who has actually stayed at level 0 for a long while.

Pre Great Reset, Pre the Great Defection, we were all forced to stay at level 0 for a long time, as you simply couldn't survive at level 1 without enough upgrades, and you were recommended to save up for at least 45 upgrades into level 1 before leveling out of 0. It's slow. Boring. You never feel like you're making any progress in terms of growing stronger. You literally do not have the stats to have any effect on the RNG. It's a slog. The board was also a lot less friendlier about leveling up ahead of your time back then.

And that is from back when level 0's fought other levels. I think there was a 0-4 level spanning mission. You can guess how that mostly went for the 0s.

ZeroWolf wrote:Also I still get the feeling looking at unspent xp and the way the bots were set up...it reminded me more of player killers in other games. Well that and the warcraft episode of South park where the boys stay in the starting area till they are max level, which I would say is against the spirit of the game, but people will play their own way.

That's honestly not far off, though I'd go with the griefers. The ones who aren't just content with killing lower level people, but keep killing them over and over and over whenever they come back to get their stuff.

Finally, looking at your argument jack, would you agree that if cr was free for all then more players would advance?

I dunno that he can answer that, as he has a bot sitting on 100,000,000 million xp on level 7. You can hit level 10 with 50-60 million or so.

Absolute Zero wrote:I dunno that he can answer that, as he has a bot sitting on 100,000,000 million xp on level 7. You can hit level 10 with 50-60 million or so.

Irrelevant to this thread, drop it.

Burn wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:AZ was a bad bot

Irrelevant to this thread, drop it.

Sorry. I thought it was relevant to his question about free CRs. It's dropped.

To clarify:

At its heart HMW is a numbers game.
The RNG has a massive say in the outcome but you can tip the odds in your favour by upgrading (the right) stats and tactics. The lower level you are, you have less ability to try and sway the RNG output in your favour. There are formulae and set values to damage range, armour effectiveness etc but probability is still a major factor. Accumulation of XP is the way to progress in HMW and the rate at which you can do that is altered by what choices you make.

You can choose to stay at L0, where the possible payout is very low and accumulate XP gradually until you can make several upgrades at once. However ever with 13 upgrades at L1 and the very best build available, you can very easily be beaten by the other side if they have more players or in multi-level missions with higher level opposition. So with that in mind, there is next to no point lagging behind at L0 to get a few more upgrades.

Sure you may well get a higher number of missions that generate 0xp after you level up but on balance you will earn more and earn it faster than is ever possible at L0. All it takes is keep throwing your team in and they'll either get XP as good as the best ever score you got at L0 from L1-2 missions or if you get a lucky hit on a L11 in a Hell mission you can easilly get enough to make 1 or 2 more upgrades.

The risk of levelling up is a higher number of missions that give you 0xp but to have the chance of the much higher payouts is IMHO one that's worth taking. Let's put this another way; you have a choice of 2 hypothetical weapons to equip both requiring the same stats. Weapon 1 will always give you damage between 5% and 10%. Weapon 2 will give you damage ranging between 0% and 50%. Do you go with the safer steadier one because it will always give you a small amount of damage but will always get the kill in 10-20 hits or the second one which may do nothing or kill your opponent in 2 hits? Myself, I'd chose the 2nd one. If you take an avarage damage for each there's no contest and to me it's pretty much like that between L0 and L1. I found my XP gains shot up immediately after levelling up and have done so again going up to L2 and beyond. The key is to keep playing and improve your chances that way.

Jack Hallows wrote:

High Command wrote: not unless you're an idiot, a coward.

I don’t think Discharge is either of those.

I’d also like to hear the opinion of someone who has actually stayed at level 0 for a long while.
.

Thanks for the compliment...

Level 0..an interesting topic..and I get the subtext. Anger..disgust..loathing.
These seem to be sentiment attached to lvl 0. I don't share them.
I would never want to have 12 0's forever..but 1..oh 1.
An ambassador from my team. Eyeing up future Autobot enemies. Flamefeather:
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/character.php?character_id=89656


Integral to my plans, he meets my needs.

Also, while no one agrees, lol 0 is the most balanced level to play at.

DISCHARGE wrote:Also, while no one agrees, lol 0 is the most balanced level to play at.

lul wut?

Absolute Zero wrote:

DISCHARGE wrote:Also, while no one agrees, lol 0 is the most balanced level to play at.

lul wut?

Well... you don't have enough Xp to really put anything into tactics or stats, so END-heavy, SPD-heavy, or Tactics-heavy builds can't dominate... with a limit on number of stats, it means that one-shot weapons like the Fusion Cannon are way out, best a player can get is an XS2 Ionized Nullray, Lightsaber or maybe a few other 'light to devastating' weapons with Short Recharge... so ultimately stats, weapons, etc. mean nothing and it all comes down to the RNG, the flip of a coin, so it could be called balanced.

To quote one of my favorite webcomics, "I can't fault his logic. I wanna unscrew his head and see what makes him tick, but I can't fault his logic."