The Energon Pub

Mechanurgist wrote:The over-reaction here pretty much proves the show's point. Adults can handle criticism, whether incorrect, implied or otherwise. Trying to be the new victim group seems to be the popular sport of our modern culture.

I'm offended mainly because the reasoning here is utterly ridiculous. It's insultingly stupid... Especially with the collector market more and more imporant for boosting sales nowadays, this just looks like someone who didn't do the research, and then said on national TV that the dog ate his homework.

If real law enforcement worked like this, I could pull off a bank robbery in broad daylight armed with only a Super Soaker.

But why get offended by a very brief line in a tv show?

Yeah, it's insulting, but it's really not worth getting all worked up about.

We all know better. Being a toy collector doesn't automatically make one a pedophile. The majority of people with half a brain would know that.

If someone's going to watch this episode of Without a Trace and form an opinion that all toy collectors, particular those who collect TF's, are nothing but low kiddie **** then good luck to them. What are they going to do? They'd need to come up with something better than a insinuation in a tv show.

Let it go people, it's just not worth it. You know the truth about yourself and that's all that matters, not the opinion of some idiot who believes what they see on a fictional tv show.

I think it's more along the lines of everyone feeling a bit hurt that something we enjoy to do has been slandered and written off as something horrible on national television.

Mechanurgist wrote:The over-reaction here pretty much proves the show's point. Adults can handle criticism, whether incorrect, implied or otherwise. Trying to be the new victim group seems to be the popular sport of our modern culture.

Incidentally, there is a strong statistical correlation between pedophilia and Star Wars collecting, though of course correlation does not equate with causation &c.

I really wouldn't call anything here an over-reaction. They made a derogatory remark about Transfans and it pissed us (the majority of the posts here) off. We posted on why it pissed us off. We’re not calling on a fanbase-wide boycott of the television networks or anything . Heck, they could've said that all Transfans wet their beds and I'm sure that folks here would be just as mad.

Anyway, the comment about Star Wars collecting is interesting. I never would’ve thought there to be any connection between collecting toys (Star Wars in this case) and pedophilia. It would make for an interesting research project, if I have to do another one before graduating from college (almost there!).

Well despite this show WITHOUT A TRACE making some sort of insinuation out there that Tf collectors are Pediphiles and as much as the insinuation upsets me. In all honesty its not really worth getting upset about after all we know that there are hundreds of thousands of adult TF collectors out there and we know that we are not pediphiles and collecting TF is something we enjoy and if the rest of the adult population wants to believe some tv program then whatever it just goes to show how narrow minded people can be. As long as we know the truth then to hell what the rest of the world thinks. Honestly though I don't believe that most adults are going to take the show to heart and start been paranoid around adult toy collectors. I am a huge TF fan with kids and most adults I know don't really care one way or another that I collect TFs.

Burn wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:First off, WTF is pedophile?

Someone who likes to have sex with minors.

Second sense when is having a Transformers colection a crime?

They're associating toy collecting wth pedophile's.

It's a pretty far stretch really. And not very good publicity for Hasbro or Dreamwave with the movie coming out and a popular tv show like "Without a Trace" insinuating that all adult TF collectors are pedophiles.

Right, yea, OK I can see who toys could be used as "bait" by criminals who want to lure kids into their houses or whatever but having a Transformers colection or any kind of toy colection is not evidence that someone is haveing sex with kids.

I definatly would never find someone guity of this crime just because they had a toy colection. Now if they had a scrap book with pictures of naked children in it that's evidence right there.

Roboto750 wrote: Heck, they could've said that all Transfans wet their beds and I'm sure that folks here would be just as mad.

Actually I wouldn't care as much if they had said that. It's not so much that they are saying bad things about us as the crime they chose. Pedophilia is one of the worst crimes you can be accused of people have had their lives ruined by false accusations.

Uncrazzimatic wrote:

Roboto750 wrote: Heck, they could've said that all Transfans wet their beds and I'm sure that folks here would be just as mad.

Actually I wouldn't care as much if they had said that. It's not so much that they are saying bad things about us as the crime they chose. Pedophilia is one of the worst crimes you can be accused of people have had their lives ruined by false accusations.

Yes, that's true.

Leonardo wrote:

Uncrazzimatic wrote:Heck, they could've said that all Transfans wet their beds and I'm sure that folks here would be just as mad.

Actually I wouldn't care as much if they had said that. It's not so much that they are saying bad things about us as the crime they chose. Pedophilia is one of the worst crimes you can be accused of people have had their lives ruined by false accusations.

Yeah. I can generally shrug most things off, but being called a pedophile is pretty serious. It's probably the very worst thing you can call someone in western culture. The only other things in that ballpark are serial killers and people who commit genocide.

If someone called me a sissy, a geek or just plain infantile, I probably wouldn't care. The 40 Year Old Virgin wasn't bad because while he had a giant toy collection, he was a decent guy. I actually enjoyed the movie.

I've never seen the show, but it definantly seems like the writer doesn't have a load of respect for people's hobbies, that's for sure.

I will say however, as far as using a toy collection to attract kids... the entire oppisite is true for me. Kids have seen my collection and have gone nuts... that's why I don't like having kids within 30 feet of that room. A lot of that stuff is worth great sentimental and monitary value, and I'd like them to stay in decent condition. A lot of G1 toys like Prowl and Megatron are pretty delicate, so letting any kid near them is a major no-no in my book.

Burn wrote:You know the truth about yourself and that's all that matters, not the opinion of some idiot who believes what they see on a fictional tv show.

Wow, the last thing I would have expected to hear from Burn is something so delusionally optimistic that it could have come from a fortune cookie.

I must disagree, and say that unless we're branching into deep spiritual/enlightenment matters, how others perceive you is far more important than how you perceive yourself. Issues of sanity, morality, etc. are societally constructed and enforced concepts, so what matters is how society sees you. Usually society's appraisal of you and your own appraisal are very similar. The two typically only deviate when the individual is insane/delusional or when the society is in some way prejudiced against the individual.

So, the problem here is, many of the posters in this thread are afraid that this TV show will implant prejudicial attitudes in viewers heads, leading to discriminatory behavior against toy collectors. They are also concerned because 'idiots who believe what they see on some fictional (popular) TV show (that espouses to use realistic crime-solving methods)' actually describes a large portion of the Western population. And Cognitive Miser Theory would suggest that their fears are justified. Most people take in information and accept it with little or no critical evaluation, especially if they absorb it while watching TV.

However, one TV show episode that won't air more than a dozen times in as many months simply does not have the kind of impact they're afraid of. If this was a consistent message broadcast repeatedly in the series, or worse, in several different TV series, then we'd definately have something to worry about.

Such is not the case, fortunately.

All the logic in the world can't prevent me from feeling slightly offended though. As others have stated, the crime in question is simply not something you should joke about, at least not in American culture. It's effectively an unparalleled insult here.

Caelus wrote:

Burn wrote:You know the truth about yourself and that's all that matters, not the opinion of some idiot who believes what they see on a fictional tv show.

Wow, the last thing I would have expected to hear from Burn is something so delusionally optimistic that it could have come from a fortune cookie.

I must disagree, and say that unless we're branching into deep spiritual/enlightenment matters, how others perceive you is far more important than how you perceive yourself. Issues of sanity, morality, etc. are societally constructed and enforced concepts, so what matters is how society sees you. Usually society's appraisal of you and your own appraisal are very similar. The two typically only deviate when the individual is insane/delusional or when the society is in some way prejudiced against the individual.

So, the problem here is, many of the posters in this thread are afraid that this TV show will implant prejudicial attitudes in viewers heads, leading to discriminatory behavior against toy collectors. They are also concerned because 'idiots who believe what they see on some fictional (popular) TV show (that espouses to use realistic crime-solving methods)' actually describes a large portion of the Western population. And Cognitive Miser Theory would suggest that their fears are justified. Most people take in information and accept it with little or no critical evaluation, especially if they absorb it while watching TV.

However, one TV show episode that won't air more than a dozen times in as many months simply does not have the kind of impact they're afraid of. If this was a consistent message broadcast repeatedly in the series, or worse, in several different TV series, then we'd definately have something to worry about.

Such is not the case, fortunately.

All the logic in the world can't prevent me from feeling slightly offended though. As others have stated, the crime in question is simply not something you should joke about, at least not in American culture. It's effectively an unparalleled insult here.

I'm going to agree. In American society the worst things we can be labeled as are racists or child molesters. Other things like drunks or drug addicts or whatnot have lessened in the weight of thier stigmas. Even mentioning these things or saying something that gets mistaken contextually as being in support of either of these things can ruin all matter of things just by trial in the court of public opinion, and actually legal action usually means nothing. Those lacrosse players at Duke just got thier charges dropped, but will it clear their names, or will people still believe them guilty with or without sufficient information?

Leonardo wrote:

Uncrazzimatic wrote:

Roboto750 wrote: Heck, they could've said that all Transfans wet their beds and I'm sure that folks here would be just as mad.

Actually I wouldn't care as much if they had said that. It's not so much that they are saying bad things about us as the crime they chose. Pedophilia is one of the worst crimes you can be accused of people have had their lives ruined by false accusations.

Yes, that's true.

Going back and looking at my last post on this thread, yes, I agree that being accused of this is much worse. I was just trying to tone down my message with the bed wetting comment and the reactions here. Not trying to lighten up the pedophile term being applied to TF fans at all. As you can see from my other posts, my involvement with youth through work and volunteerism (and collecting TFs) does make this comment hit rather close to home. Though, I would consider myself to have a realistic view on what can be done about it (not much, other than discussing it here), and when it comes to hanging on to it (let it go after some good discussion).

Caelus wrote:However, one TV show episode that won't air more than a dozen times in as many months simply does not have the kind of impact they're afraid of. If this was a consistent message broadcast repeatedly in the series, or worse, in several different TV series, then we'd definately have something to worry about.

Which is the point i'm trying to make.

The people who are going to get it in their heads that all adult TF collectors are pedophiles will be a very small group indeed.

Perhaps i'm not as worried about this because i've had to endure being labelled a pedophile.

Yeah, that's right. I've had such rumours thrown about me. From a fellow TF collector no less.

I won't give his name, he's not a member of this forum, but he is on one of the other major forums. I've probably had about one conversation with him but for whatever reason, he decided to go around telling others I was a pedophile. Word did get back to me about it but I did nothing about it because nobody believed him and it all eventually went away.

Believe me, having someone spread such rumours is far more hurtful than some tv show generalising, and that's probably why I don't see a point in getting all worked up over this, it's so damn trivial compared to the bigger picture.

Burn wrote:

Caelus wrote:However, one TV show episode that won't air more than a dozen times in as many months simply does not have the kind of impact they're afraid of. If this was a consistent message broadcast repeatedly in the series, or worse, in several different TV series, then we'd definately have something to worry about.

Which is the point i'm trying to make.

The people who are going to get it in their heads that all adult TF collectors are pedophiles will be a very small group indeed.

Perhaps i'm not as worried about this because i've had to endure being labelled a pedophile.

Yeah, that's right. I've had such rumours thrown about me. From a fellow TF collector no less.

I won't give his name, he's not a member of this forum, but he is on one of the other major forums. I've probably had about one conversation with him but for whatever reason, he decided to go around telling others I was a pedophile. Word did get back to me about it but I did nothing about it because nobody believed him and it all eventually went away.

Believe me, having someone spread such rumours is far more hurtful than some tv show generalising, and that's probably why I don't see a point in getting all worked up over this, it's so damn trivial compared to the bigger picture.

That's a horrible thing for someone to spread about you! I see where you're coming from now. That would indeed be more hurtful and angering than a generalizing view of a TV show. Luckily, I haven't had such an experience, but seeing how I feel about the comments made on this TV show, I doubt that I could handle it as well as you did.

Don't get me wrong, I was majorly pissed off when I first read Smooth's initial post. I am NOT impressed with what they did, but once I calmed down I realised it's not worth getting worked up over.

I will laugh though if someone comes up to me when i'm in the toy aisle and says "I saw Without a Trace, I know why you're here you sick ****" at which point i'll ask them to call the police. Be interesting to see what they do then.

I didn't know people actually watched WITHOUT A TRACE. I guess what, 8-9 people saw this nationwide?

Since we are talking aobut Transformer Fans and being poorly portrayed in media, what about the guy from Clerks II? Also I kinda have to agree to some extent that Go-Bots are kind of the K-Mart of Transformers.

Burn wrote:I will laugh though if someone comes up to me when i'm in the toy aisle and says "I saw Without a Trace, I know why you're here you sick ****" at which point i'll ask them to call the police. Be interesting to see what they do then.

Hmmmm.... Now that would be interesting.

Just let this low rate show's producers revel in their pathetic little world, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who have a problem!!

well.... ya'know, i really wish i had a more in depth and thought out argument for this... but... FU*K YOU!!! I mean, what the fu*k were they thinking? I mean.... FU*K!! This is digusting! Okay, I've gotta get this offa my chest: how many of you guys wanna go fu*k a 13-year-old right now? Anyone? ME NEITHER!!!!!! FU*K these pieces of sh*t! ..... Okay.... glad that's settled. Now on to more serious matters. Did he have a decent collection?

Swerve wrote:I didn't know people actually watched WITHOUT A TRACE. I guess what, 8-9 people saw this nationwide?

Since we are talking aobut Transformer Fans and being poorly portrayed in media, what about the guy from Clerks II? Also I kinda have to agree to some extent that Go-Bots are kind of the K-Mart of Transformers.

Ya'know, when I first heard about the stabs at TF's that were taken in that film, I was really ticked at first, but then I watched the movie and realized something: Randal wasn't exactly pwning TF's, he was just trying to get to that little punk in the show and I think the turd deserved it. Dudes, seriously, am I the only one who thinks that little pu$$y gave us a bad name? What a little sh*t! If i met him at a Botcon or something, I'd run his head over with my car. Oh, btw, Randal's rendition or LOTR? PERFECT!