The Energon Pub

News Credits: 5 · by **Sledge** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:34 pm

That still doesn't make sense. First of all, the Matrix isn't visible on Teletraan's scans (or when Wheeljack and Ratchet open Prime up in Divide And Conquer), and it still doesn't explain why Prime didn't take it out and say "Matrix of Leadership, therefore I'm your leader."

There really are only two ways of looking at this (assuming TFTM and Season 3 are actually in the same universe as Seasons 1 and 2): either we go with the writers screwing up, or we go with the in-universe explanation that Prime didn't have the Matrix at that time.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:34 pm

Sledge wrote:What contradictions have my theories created?

Your theroy would contradict the information in the episode 5 faces of darkness.And insert a new character never before seen or heard of into season 2.

Like I said if you want to interpet what we saw in that episode as a hallucinations from a near-death experience thats fine but it would creat small contradictions in what we were told.

News Credits: 5 · by **Sledge** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:37 pm

It doesn't create a contradiction, it removes the contradiction between what Roddy thinks he is told, and what we know to have happened. I ask again, what contradictions does it create?

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:49 pm

Sledge wrote:That still doesn't make sense. First of all, the Matrix isn't visible on Teletraan's scans (or when Wheeljack and Ratchet open Prime up in Divide And Conquer),

Again like I said the idea of "A Matrix" had not been brought to the attention of the writters of the toon.And as you said before...

Sledge wrote: Of course, the reason there are so many contradictions is that the writers weren't working with a clearly defined backstory, they just wrote whatever made a good story.

Not seeing the Matrix in those episodes is just an other exsample of the writters not working with a full backstory.

Sledge wrote: and it still doesn't explain why Prime didn't take it out and say "Matrix of Leadership, therefore I'm your leader."

What good would taking it out and saying "Matrix of Leadership, therefore I'm your leader" be if the clone had one too???

Sledge wrote:There really are only two ways of looking at this (assuming TFTM and Season 3 are actually in the same universe as Seasons 1 and 2): either we go with the writers screwing up, or we go with the in-universe explanation that Prime didn't have the Matrix at that time.

Your explanation is not in universe as you would like to believe.Its fan fiction....its good but still fan fiction.

And your forgeting one simple fact....the writters can retcon anything they like into the past of their stories.And unlike the retcon to TF history done in Beast Wars ,which was done almost 15 years later.....Optimus having the matrix all along is a retcon done at the time that the derries was being produced.

You just cant take that away.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Sledge wrote:It doesn't create a contradiction, it removes the contradiction between what Roddy thinks he is told, and what we know to have happened. I ask again, what contradictions does it create?

Only if you accept that what Rodimus was told is a lie.If one choses not to accept that then your theroy is a contradiction of the info in 5 faces of darkness.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:05 pm

heroic_decepticon wrote:Sledge, sto_vo_kor_2000 and bookofjunon I've been reading the thoughts you guys have been writing with great interest. Refrained from reply till now.

I'm really happy to know that there are fans out there who still care about G1 lore rather than just being mindless collecting drones whose next hit comes from the purchase of another toy to tick off the 'acquired' box on their checklist.

I think both the theories proffered about the Matrix are possible.

If we take it all the way serious, like Sledge suggested, and assume the writers didnt screw up, then it is possible that (1) Prime obtained the Matrix between A Prime Problem and TFTM; or (2) he could have had the Matrix all along but it was buried too deep in his chest for the probe to detect. We see that there is an extra covering for the Matrix even after Prime's windsheilds open in TFTM; or (3) the Matrix is so scared that it has to remain secret, even to other Autobots unless in the event of a leader's demise, that Teletraan-1 decided to censor that aspect of Prime's internal scan from watching eyes.

Alternatively, we could say that Prime always had the Matrix and had it since War Dawn but someone somewhere screwed up when writing, directing and producing A Prime Problem.

I would like to offer this as another possible explanation. Some sources (I know I read it somewhere, dunno where but can possibly track this down if too controversial), suggests that the TFTM script was commissioned and scripting began shortly after Season 1 kicked off. The script and production for TFTM was underway concurrent with when Season 1 and Season 2 were airing. It is possible that (1) writers were not privy to the TFTM script at all; or (2) writers knew about the Matrix but failed to write it into the regular cartoons; or (3) writers knew about the Matrix but purposefully left it out because the concept and the look of the Matrix is not fully finalized till late into the production of TFTM (see early story boards and animation test footage, which was available on http://www.spacebridge.net but the site is now offline).

Personally, I believe that it is the real world situation that the writers were not privy to the TFTM script; but if we were to want to explain purely in terms of TF lore and assume that the writers didn't screw up, I'd go for this point I said above: (2) he could have had the Matrix all along but it was buried too deep in his chest for the probe to detect. We see that there is an extra covering for the Matrix even after Prime's windsheilds open in TFTM

This is another site for some of the early story boards from the 86 movie

http://www.wombatking.com/coppermine/th ... hp?album=4

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:58 pm

To be fair, Magnus is more of a case of being thrown to the lions straight away. I mean, he inherits the Matrix, a role he's uncomfortable with from the get-go, and it seems that the further he goes along, the more crap is put on his plate for him. In Rodimus' case, he had a whole year between the movie and season 3 to get his **** together, and he still didn't manage to do that. At least Magnus was a capable advisor.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:10 pm

Damolisher wrote:To be fair, Magnus is more of a case of being thrown to the lions straight away. I mean, he inherits the Matrix, a role he's uncomfortable with from the get-go, and it seems that the further he goes along, the more crap is put on his plate for him. In Rodimus' case, he had a whole year between the movie and season 3 to get his **** together, and he still didn't manage to do that. At least Magnus was a capable advisor.

Quite true.

by **Jaz-Zen** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:41 pm

This is how I thought of it as a kid, and this is still how I think of it: The Matrix didn't choose ANYONE, it was a “first come, first serve” type deal. It could feel Optimus dying, it “knew” that it was being passed to the new Prime, so when Hot Rod caught it as Optimus was passing/dropping it, BAM, it imprinted on him like cartoon baby birds were always imprinting on the first person they saw to be their momma. :p (Don’t know if that was real science or not, but that’s old school cartoons for ya.) Anyway, once Hot Rod touched the Matrix, the Matrix would only work for him. And, perhaps, even if the Matrix didn’t feel a Prime dying, if it was separated from a carrier long enough, it would then work for the first TF to come along. There may have been wisdom INSIDE the Matrix, but the Matrix itself was not wise, it was just a tool to hold the wisdom of former Autobot leaders.

I think that if the Matrix had been passed to Ultra Magnus without Hot Rod getting in the way, he would have been able to open and active the Matrix, and would have become Magnus Prime, or Magnimus Prime or some other such nonsense. (Seriously, taking “Hot Rod” and “Optimus” and coming up with “Rodimus” was the height of laziness. None of the Prime’s before Optimus had –imus as the ending of their first name, so why should Hot Rod?) And actually being able to use the Matrix and actually being a Prime, I think Magnus would have been a fine leader.

My theory also explains why Liege Maximo and other Decepticons would have been able to open the Matrix. Like I said, the Matrix will open to the first TF that tries after the former Prime is either dead or missing. However, once the Matrix is open, THEN the wisdom and personalities of the former Primes will have access to the mind of the new Matrix holder, and if the Matrix holder is unacceptable, then the Matrix will reject the Matrix holder and will wait for whoever gets the Matrix next.

Just my two cents.
-J-

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:21 am

Jaz-Zen wrote:This is how I thought of it as a kid, and this is still how I think of it: The Matrix didn't choose ANYONE, it was a “first come, first serve” type deal. It could feel Optimus dying, it “knew” that it was being passed to the new Prime, so when Hot Rod caught it as Optimus was passing/dropping it, BAM, it imprinted on him like cartoon baby birds were always imprinting on the first person they saw to be their momma. :p (Don’t know if that was real science or not, but that’s old school cartoons for ya.) Anyway, once Hot Rod touched the Matrix, the Matrix would only work for him. And, perhaps, even if the Matrix didn’t feel a Prime dying, if it was separated from a carrier long enough, it would then work for the first TF to come along. There may have been wisdom INSIDE the Matrix, but the Matrix itself was not wise, it was just a tool to hold the wisdom of former Autobot leaders.

I think that if the Matrix had been passed to Ultra Magnus without Hot Rod getting in the way, he would have been able to open and active the Matrix, and would have become Magnus Prime, or Magnimus Prime or some other such nonsense. (Seriously, taking “Hot Rod” and “Optimus” and coming up with “Rodimus” was the height of laziness. None of the Prime’s before Optimus had –imus as the ending of their first name, so why should Hot Rod?) And actually being able to use the Matrix and actually being a Prime, I think Magnus would have been a fine leader.

My theory also explains why Liege Maximo and other Decepticons would have been able to open the Matrix. Like I said, the Matrix will open to the first TF that tries after the former Prime is either dead or missing. However, once the Matrix is open, THEN the wisdom and personalities of the former Primes will have access to the mind of the new Matrix holder, and if the Matrix holder is unacceptable, then the Matrix will reject the Matrix holder and will wait for whoever gets the Matrix next.

Just my two cents.
-J-

I thought the same way you did when I first saw the movie in 86 but I soon dismised that theroy.

First Galvatron tryed to use the power of the Matrix after it being away from Hot Rod for some time.
I know that while watching the film it seems like only a few momments between the scenes that Hot Rod touches the Matrix and when the leave earth in the shuttles but at least 1 day had to had passed in that time because when Optimus fell in battle it seemed to be at least mid day and when the leave earth it looked like morning again.

Also even more time had to pass between the shuttle trip and the fight on the planet of Junk between Galvatron and Ultra Magnus.

So with the theroy you suggested the Matrix had more then enough time to imprint its self onto Galvatron.

Second when Rodimus lost the Matrix in "The burden hardest to bear" The first Decepticon to touch it was Windrider yet it did not imprint its self on him.

The second decepticon to touch it was Galvatron and again just like in the movie it did not imprint its self on him.

It wasnt till the 3rd Decepticon, Scourge ,that got his hands on it that it imprinted it self on him [at least in part] and it was in far less time that passed between the Matrix not having its proper host then the time that passed in the Movie.

Wether Rodimus is the so called chosen one or not is still up for debate but the argument that touching it first was the desiding factor does not really have a leg to stand on when you compair it to the rest of the serries.

The most reasonable conclusion is that there are a small number of Transformers that have an afinity with the Matrix.In the G1 toon we saw 3 different TF's that could use the power of the Matrix in some way or an other.In the Marvel comic that number was 4 or 5 and even a human used the power for some time.

So touching it first can not really explain the transformation of Hot Rod and why Ultra Magnus did not change with the Matrix.

by **Pyrostrata** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:37 am

Tekka wrote:
bookofjunon wrote:Hell, he makes Daniel look cool.

That is just completely untrue and a step too far! As bad as Rod is, surely nothing in the TF universe can make Daniel look cool.

Yes, Wheelie sucks. Yes, Rodimus sucks. But Daniel cool? There is not enough chemicals manufactured by god or man to make that a possibility!

Daniel= Ziplock full of Massengil

by **Pyrostrata** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:39 am

Tekka wrote:
bookofjunon wrote:Hell, he makes Daniel look cool.

That is just completely untrue and a step too far! As bad as Rod is, surely nothing in the TF universe can make Daniel look cool.

Yes, Wheelie sucks. Yes, Rodimus sucks. But Daniel cool? There is not enough chemicals manufactured by god or man to make that a possibility!

Daniel= Ziploc filled with Massengil

by **Pyrostrata** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:40 am

okay....that sucked!

*shoots the double-post demon in the nards with napalm* BURN!!!

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:32 am

Normally, I agree with Sledge on such matters but this time I'm not so sure. I don't see why Prime not being shown possessing the Matrix in "A Prime Problem" is evidence that he didn't have it. Couldn't that just be chalked up to a typical animation error?

I do agree that if the bios had listed Rodimus Prime and Galvatron as the new leaders then it wouldn't have necessarily meant that Optimus and Megatron were dead. They could easily be missing, non-functional, imprisoned or part of a 'team' of leaders.

I do, however, think that the Matrix sees Hot Rod as the Chosen One (if a Chosen One ever existed). I think the semiotics of the film show that (it glows when Hot Rod catches it, which it doesn't do for anyone else). Where does the idea of a Chosen One come from? I don't remember it being in the film. It's possible that if another Autobot had been in the belly of Unicron at the end (during the darkest hour) it probably would have opened for them, too, although that's entirely speculation.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:32 am

Leonardo wrote:I do agree that if the bios had listed Rodimus Prime and Galvatron as the new leaders then it wouldn't have necessarily meant that Optimus and Megatron were dead.

No it wouldnt have had to mean that they were dead or upgraded but it still would have ment that something big happened.And it seems that they went to considerable effert to keep some of the plot [if not all] a secret.

Leonardo wrote:They could easily be missing, non-functional, imprisoned or part of a 'team' of leaders.

All of which, if it were the case, would have ruined the suprise of seeing it happen in the film.And truth be told.....if any of those ideas were the case many of the fans would have felt that the film did not live up to the hype.

The second that I heard that there was going to be a new leader for the Autobots I knew that Optimus was going to die.I didnt want to see it happen but it was my first and best guess as to why they would have needed a new leader.

With all the hype for the film in the months before it came out, with talk that it could be compaired to Star Wars and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, I was expecting a big death scene and I know if it haddent happen I would have been a bit disapointed and would have felt that it wasnt worth making into a Motion Picture.....it could have been a regular episode.

Optimus's death was really the only adult like theme scene in the whole film.And I'm sure some of you guy's will point out Spile's cursing but the point is a small bit of dialog dose very little to effect the feel of a film.

Leonardo wrote: Where does the idea of a Chosen One come from? I don't remember it being in the film.

It come's from both Optimus and Magnus's dialog when Optimus was on his death bed.
When OP says that "one day an autobot shall rise from our ranks...and use the power of the Matrix to lite our darkest hour"

Leonardo wrote:It's possible that if another Autobot had been in the belly of Unicron at the end (during the darkest hour) it probably would have opened for them, too, although that's entirely speculation.

I always felt that this was also possiable.

News Credits: 1 · by **Leonardo** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:15 am

Speaking of ruining the surprise, I wonder if, back then, fans who had been reading the comics were surprised by Megatron being replaced given his struggle to maintain leadership in the comics.

Regarding the Chosen One, I see what you mean. Having read through this thread, that prophecy uttered by the dying Optimus doesn't explicitly say that there is one specific Autobot who will use the Matrix. It just says an Autobot will rise up and use it. Maybe there was no Chosen One or Chosen Autobot per se but rather the prophecy simply means the Matrix just needed to be in Autobot hands during the darkest hour.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:35 am

Leonardo wrote:Speaking of ruining the surprise, I wonder if, back then, fans who had been reading the comics were surprised by Megatron being replaced given his struggle to maintain leadership in the comics.

It did leave me with questions at the time.In the comics it was Shockwave and Starscream that posed the biggest treat to Megatron's command and then there were comic only characters like Straxus that could also have taken command.....hearing the new name of Galvatron had me wondering why some new character would be the new leader and not some of the better knowen guys.

Then when I first saw the pic's of Galvatron's toy look I was a bit shocked that his alt mode looked a bit like that of Straxus and thought that it was going to be the toon version of the same character.At that point in time the comic had different names for characters from the toon and I thought that it may be a simular case.

Leonardo wrote:Regarding the Chosen One, I see what you mean. Having read through this thread, that prophecy uttered by the dying Optimus doesn't explicitly say that there is one specific Autobot who will use the Matrix. It just says an Autobot will rise up and use it. Maybe there was no Chosen One or Chosen Autobot per se but rather the prophecy simply means the Matrix just needed to be in Autobot hands during the darkest hour.

Wouldnt be the forst time that a prophecy was mis-read.Even in Star Wars the prophecy of their chosen one was slightly mis-read as well.

by **Jaz-Zen** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:00 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Jaz-Zen wrote:
Just my two cents.
-J-

I thought the same way you did when I first saw the movie in 86 but I soon dismised that theroy.

First Galvatron tryed to use the power of the Matrix after it being away from Hot Rod for some time.
I know that while watching the film it seems like only a few momments between the scenes that Hot Rod touches the Matrix and when the leave earth in the shuttles but at least 1 day had to had passed in that time because when Optimus fell in battle it seemed to be at least mid day and when the leave earth it looked like morning again.

Also even more time had to pass between the shuttle trip and the fight on the planet of Junk between Galvatron and Ultra Magnus.

So with the theroy you suggested the Matrix had more then enough time to imprint its self onto Galvatron.

Second when Rodimus lost the Matrix in "The burden hardest to bear" The first Decepticon to touch it was Windrider yet it did not imprint its self on him.

The second decepticon to touch it was Galvatron and again just like in the movie it did not imprint its self on him.

It wasnt till the 3rd Decepticon, Scourge ,that got his hands on it that it imprinted it self on him [at least in part] and it was in far less time that passed between the Matrix not having its proper host then the time that passed in the Movie.

Wether Rodimus is the so called chosen one or not is still up for debate but the argument that touching it first was the desiding factor does not really have a leg to stand on when you compair it to the rest of the serries.

The most reasonable conclusion is that there are a small number of Transformers that have an afinity with the Matrix.In the G1 toon we saw 3 different TF's that could use the power of the Matrix in some way or an other.In the Marvel comic that number was 4 or 5 and even a human used the power for some time.

So touching it first can not really explain the transformation of Hot Rod and why Ultra Magnus did not change with the Matrix.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember those references from season 3. Then I guess the Matrix DID choose Hot Rod. Ah well.

To be honest, I know you guys like to debate within the confines of continuity, but its really just much easier to say the writers simply made a mess of G1 continuity, so you just kind of have to take each episode at face value and accept the mistakes for what they are: mistakes. Its not the end of the world.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:23 pm

Jaz-Zen wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Jaz-Zen wrote:
Just my two cents.
-J-

I thought the same way you did when I first saw the movie in 86 but I soon dismised that theroy.

First Galvatron tryed to use the power of the Matrix after it being away from Hot Rod for some time.
I know that while watching the film it seems like only a few momments between the scenes that Hot Rod touches the Matrix and when the leave earth in the shuttles but at least 1 day had to had passed in that time because when Optimus fell in battle it seemed to be at least mid day and when the leave earth it looked like morning again.

Also even more time had to pass between the shuttle trip and the fight on the planet of Junk between Galvatron and Ultra Magnus.

So with the theroy you suggested the Matrix had more then enough time to imprint its self onto Galvatron.

Second when Rodimus lost the Matrix in "The burden hardest to bear" The first Decepticon to touch it was Windrider yet it did not imprint its self on him.

The second decepticon to touch it was Galvatron and again just like in the movie it did not imprint its self on him.

It wasnt till the 3rd Decepticon, Scourge ,that got his hands on it that it imprinted it self on him [at least in part] and it was in far less time that passed between the Matrix not having its proper host then the time that passed in the Movie.

Wether Rodimus is the so called chosen one or not is still up for debate but the argument that touching it first was the desiding factor does not really have a leg to stand on when you compair it to the rest of the serries.

The most reasonable conclusion is that there are a small number of Transformers that have an afinity with the Matrix.In the G1 toon we saw 3 different TF's that could use the power of the Matrix in some way or an other.In the Marvel comic that number was 4 or 5 and even a human used the power for some time.

So touching it first can not really explain the transformation of Hot Rod and why Ultra Magnus did not change with the Matrix.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember those references from season 3. Then I guess the Matrix DID choose Hot Rod. Ah well.

To be honest, I know you guys like to debate within the confines of continuity, but its really just much easier to say the writers simply made a mess of G1 continuity, so you just kind of have to take each episode at face value and accept the mistakes for what they are: mistakes. Its not the end of the world.

Oh definitly the real reason for all the mix up is that the writters made mistakes and that they werent to conserend with continuity in the first place.I doubt they ever guessed that 30+ year old adults would debate their work for endless hours online over 20 years later. :-P

But it is fun to debate the issues from a inside prespective. :-P

by **heroic_decepticon** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:33 am

bookofjunon wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
bookofjunon wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
bookofjunon wrote:There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

You meen one of these????

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUWzKbdyY&feature=related
But he calls him the powerful Autobot comander and a born leader not the leader

Here check out these Japanese adds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S7ZOtSO3n38&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wsKIXzHhZT8&feature=related

Sounds to me like they mean he's the new leader. Doesn't sound like he's simply Prime's second.

Sledge wrote:Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

That's a very good point.

you can take any meaning you like from that commercial but the fact is that they did not say that Ultra Magnuss was the new leader or the leader at all.
But in Rodimus Prime's toy commercial they did in fact call him the New Autobot leader.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=039xYApI8TE
Even if Takara thought that Ultra Magnus was going to be the New leader there's no way that Hasbro thought it nor would it have been ment in any toy commercial's that he would be the new leader.
Think about it.The movie was already written and in production a year before those toy commercial's we're even made.Hasbro already knew who was going to be the new leader.

At best maybe they wanted to mislead the fans a little by useing the word commander so as to not spoil the plot of the movie.

I'm just saying I remember store catalogues from when I was a kid saying Ultra Magnus was the new leader. To me those commercials say exactly that as well. The impression is there.

Maybe UM was meant to be the new leader after all? Or was this more misinformation?

Marvel UK #79

A page in Marvel UK #81

The red box at top, first sentance says: 'The biggest event to occur in recent Transformers history is the introduction of Ultra Magnus and Galvatron- the new leaders'.

by **Deadpool.** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:40 am

heroic_decepticon wrote:Maybe UM was meant to be the new leader after all? Or was this more misinformation?

Marvel UK #79

A page in Marvel UK #81

The red box at top, first sentance says: 'The biggest event to occur in recent Transformers history is the introduction of Ultra Magnus and Galvatron- the new leaders'.

I think that might have been the original plan.

Both UM and Galv were "City Commanders" on the toy packaging, right?

by **heroic_decepticon** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:53 am

Deadpool. wrote:I think that might have been the original plan.

Both UM and Galv were "City Commanders" on the toy packaging, right?

I think its possible, and wrote so a little earlier.

heroic_decepticon wrote:Ultra Magnus' toy package says: City Commander- Ultra Magnus
Galvatron's package says: City Commander- Galvatron
Rodimus Prime's package says: Autobot Protector- Rodimus Prime

From this, I think it reasonable to draw the conclusion that the new leaders were planned to be Ultra Magnus and Galvatron; with Rodimus Prime being a souped up more powerful Hot rod perhaps, some sort of vigilante 'protector'.

But there has been some debate about that point so i thought of bringing up this 'new' discovery I made when reading Target 2006... heh.

Not sure what the others would think.

by **Deadpool.** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:56 am

heroic_decepticon wrote:
Deadpool. wrote:I think that might have been the original plan.

Both UM and Galv were "City Commanders" on the toy packaging, right?

I think its possible, and wrote so a little earlier.

heroic_decepticon wrote:Ultra Magnus' toy package says: City Commander- Ultra Magnus
Galvatron's package says: City Commander- Galvatron
Rodimus Prime's package says: Autobot Protector- Rodimus Prime

From this, I think it reasonable to draw the conclusion that the new leaders were planned to be Ultra Magnus and Galvatron; with Rodimus Prime being a souped up more powerful Hot rod perhaps, some sort of vigilante 'protector'.

But there has been some debate about that point so i thought of bringing up this 'new' discovery I made when reading Target 2006... heh.

Not sure what the others would think.

And in Target:2006, Galvatron & Cyclonus seemed more concerned about Ultra Magnus' interference.

Rodimus wasn't even mentioned at all.

by **heroic_decepticon** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:10 am

Yup. Exactly right. Because at that point in time UM was effectively the 'new' Autobot leader and Roddy didn't even figure into the equation, which relates to some debate earlier over who was initially supposed to be the new leader after Optimus. :grin:

by **Deadpool.** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:16 am

Honestly, all the time-jumping was quite illogical.

If Galvatron met Megatron, knocked him out, and took over the Constructicons, wouldn't Galvatron have had memories of encountering himself back when he was still Megatron?