The Energon Pub

UNSC Marine wrote:Ok within the blast radius all orcs and heartless are ahnialated with authority. Orcs, yes, could thrive there. I have never been a huge fan of KH but I know Mickey Mouse would make a cool combat form and Sora/Roxas ain't gonna kill a Tank(pure form) too easily. None of the Heroes in LOTR and KH would even see who or what killed them, ah snipers!

1. Approximately 25% of Heartless in the impact zone would be temporarily destroyed, the rest would be moved back, then go into the fall out zone to spawn,
1.5 simple explosions can't really slay Heartless, nor
can fire arms
2. 90% of orks would die, but they would use the poisoned land as a foot hold in any area
3. (and this one's important) Roxas, being a Nobody, doesn't exist; you can't shoot something that doesn't exist.
4. Nobody Snipers would always souround and masacre a troop of human snipers by principal
5. Beast and Hercules (not to mention any Heartless the size of a Large Body of greater) would take out tanks and worthogs, not to mention the Ram(s).

and then there are towers... ah, towers, and Master Yen Sid

tobiax wrote:1. Approximately 25% of Heartless in the impact zone would be temporarily destroyed, the rest would be moved back, then go into the fall out zone to spawn,
1.5 simple explosions can't really slay Heartless, nor
can fire arms
2. 90% of orks would die, but they would use the poisoned land as a foot hold in any area
3. (and this one's important) Roxas, being a Nobody, doesn't exist; you can't shoot something that doesn't exist.
4. Nobody Snipers would always souround and masacre a troop of human snipers by principal
5. Beast and Hercules (not to mention any Heartless the size of a Large Body of greater) would take out tanks and worthogs, not to mention the Ram(s).

and then there are towers... ah, towers, and Master Yen Sid

1. Explosions make light

1.5 ditto, and covenant weapons make are light(lasers, plasma, beams, pure energy, etc)

2. I disagree but lets say 10% did survive the UNSC could send in unmanned drones

3. Again I disagree but I don't have enough knowledge of KH(you got lucky)

4. They have to find the sniper first.

5. Not a tank tank a Flood Tank see: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Tank_Form

Heartless could be effected by bullets, though it is shown that wooden swords and ect cannot touch them, in a video scene in KH2 Tifa punching Heartless, thus metal bullets and swords could deal damage. None of this is par with the Keyblade on a daily basis but it would work. This does not give either side and advantage, but you can say it is an equalizer.

Thebirdman wrote:Heartless could be effected by bullets, though it is shown that wooden swords and ect cannot touch them, in a video scene in KH2 Tifa punching Heartless, thus metal bullets and swords could deal damage. None of this is par with the Keyblade on a daily basis but it would work. This does not give either side and advantage, but you can say it is an equalizer.

Tifa's fists may be the tool, but she fights with her Heart, something mass produced milatry training can not ensure, bullets would only make holes and those holes would quickly seal

UNSC Marine wrote:

tobiax wrote:1. Approximately 25% of Heartless in the impact zone would be temporarily destroyed, the rest would be moved back, then go into the fall out zone to spawn,
1.5 simple explosions can't really slay Heartless, nor
can fire arms
2. 90% of orks would die, but they would use the poisoned land as a foot hold in any area
3. (and this one's important) Roxas, being a Nobody, doesn't exist; you can't shoot something that doesn't exist.
4. Nobody Snipers would always souround and masacre a troop of human snipers by principal
5. Beast and Hercules (not to mention any Heartless the size of a Large Body of greater) would take out tanks and worthogs, not to mention the Ram(s).

and then there are towers... ah, towers, and Master Yen Sid

1. Explosions make light

1.5 ditto, and covenant weapons make are light(lasers, plasma, beams, pure energy, etc)

2. I disagree but lets say 10% did survive the UNSC could send in unmanned drones

3. Again I disagree but I don't have enough knowledge of KH(you got lucky)

4. They have to find the sniper first.

5. Not a tank tank a Flood Tank see: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Tank_Form

1.5 the weapon commander is as vulnerable to the Heartless as the back of their heads (Dark Teleportation)

4. Xigbar would tell them and have them attack,

3. Try to put a hole in your shadow or a memory with a bullet

5. Same as the Heartless, minus Beast and Herc

tobiax wrote:3. (and this one's important) Roxas, being a Nobody, doesn't exist; you can't shoot something that doesn't exist.

So, when you play as him in KH2, you're invincible?

tobiax wrote:Tifa's fists may be the tool, but she fights with her Heart

Nothing in the Compilation suggests that she had any sort of training that lets her channel her "Heart" through her fists. She's the standard Monk class, decent strength (Not as good as a Warrior class), but no special aptitude for magic.

Shadowman wrote:

tobiax wrote:3. (and this one's important) Roxas, being a Nobody, doesn't exist; you can't shoot something that doesn't exist.

So, when you play as him in KH2, you're invincible?

tobiax wrote:Tifa's fists may be the tool, but she fights with her Heart

Nothing in the Compilation suggests that she had any sort of training that lets her channel her "Heart" through her fists. She's the standard Monk class, decent strength (Not as good as a Warrior class), but no special aptitude for magic.

A: No, he fights other things that don't exist in a world that doesn't exist/is made of data, and Nobodies can be compromised, but not my conventional means,
B: Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are not the same thing, to the same extent, nothing sugests (until Kingdom Hearts) that Cloud nor Sephiroth have a wing (with the exception of mutant Jenova forms of Sephiroth) It's a totaly different storyline and univers, plus, whoever said that Tifa defeats said Heartless, they are just punched off screen, they could just be in physical shock, or take long enough to stand up that Tifa can run towards Cloud,
**EDIT*
Besides, you don't need training to fight with your heart, it's something that either you do or you don't, comes from having a reason, being human

Yes, but if nobodies and Roxas were nothing they would not be able to hurt people which are something. Therefore nothing is not nothing, nothing is obviously something and if nothing is something and not nothing it can be shot. That was so stupid it made perfect sense.

UNSC Marine wrote:Yes, but if nobodies and Roxas were nothing they would not be able to hurt people which are something. Therefore nothing is not nothing, nothing is obviously something and if nothing is something and not nothing it can be shot. That was so stupid it made perfect sense.

No dude, no. The way that Nobodies damage one is that they are convinced that they are hit, they do feel it, but it's like a punch with memories, the way Nobodies are beaten is that their will in broken, if they can not conceive that bullets will hurt them (which they will (not hurt Nobodies) with no actual attachment to a being) then they will not vanish. The Halo-ites, in chasing the Nobodies through the portals, will find themselves in the Relm of Nothing, where the soldiers will vanish eventually, espically (I think)because of their un-individualizing training. (And I belive that is a check, Halo soldiers lose against Nobodies, since they can't wrap their minds around their presence and non-existance)

This matchup is made more fair for all sides once support and other characters are added in. KH has Boss characters and ships, Halo has space assualts and Scarabs, LotR has Balrog, Dragons, and Sauron (or Morgoth) if they need them. Dont forget the srategy to it either, LotR could use darkness to bring out the Heartless, or KH can have Heartless/Nobodies to knock out Halo's air support, and Halo can travel faster and has radio communication for support. An even fight as it seems though it is unequal at times.

tobiax wrote:No dude, no. The way that Nobodies damage one is that they are convinced that they are hit, they do feel it, but it's like a punch with memories, the way Nobodies are beaten is that their will in broken, if they can not conceive that bullets will hurt them (which they will (not hurt Nobodies) with no actual attachment to a being) then they will not vanish. The Halo-ites, in chasing the Nobodies through the portals, will find themselves in the Relm of Nothing, where the soldiers will vanish eventually, espically (I think)because of their un-individualizing training. (And I belive that is a check, Halo soldiers lose against Nobodies, since they can't wrap their minds around their presence and non-existance)

I have the feeling you don't know too much about Halo. It takes a lot more than an imaginary hit to wound a Grunt, let alone a UNSC Marine. No, a Marine would not jump through a portal to kill nothing, guns not swords, they would fire a few shots through and focus on another target. Since nobodies are nothing they apparently cannot physically hurt something. Also does "Halo soldiers" apply to simply UNSC Marines or Grunts, Jackals, Brutes, Elites, Engineers, Drones, Hunters, and Spartans too?

UNSC Marine wrote:

tobiax wrote:No dude, no. The way that Nobodies damage one is that they are convinced that they are hit, they do feel it, but it's like a punch with memories, the way Nobodies are beaten is that their will in broken, if they can not conceive that bullets will hurt them (which they will (not hurt Nobodies) with no actual attachment to a being) then they will not vanish. The Halo-ites, in chasing the Nobodies through the portals, will find themselves in the Relm of Nothing, where the soldiers will vanish eventually, espically (I think)because of their un-individualizing training. (And I belive that is a check, Halo soldiers lose against Nobodies, since they can't wrap their minds around their presence and non-existance)

I have the feeling you don't know too much about Halo. It takes a lot more than an imaginary hit to wound a Grunt, let alone a UNSC Marine. No, a Marine would not jump through a portal to kill nothing, guns not swords, they would fire a few shots through and focus on another target. Since nobodies are nothing they apparently cannot physically hurt something. Also does "Halo soldiers" apply to simply UNSC Marines or Grunts, Jackals, Brutes, Elites, Engineers, Drones, Hunters, and Spartans too?

You misunderstand, they just don't know,

but the key fact everyone is missing is KH has disney characters as heroes, and as we all know, (famous) disney heroes are 100% immortal AND ridiculously lucky. Watch any (animated) disney movie. The heroes are near invulnerable, be it form skill, powers, or dumb luck. Do you realize the hell that would rain on someone TRYING to attack mickey mouse? It wouldn't fly. and then there is the presence of GODS and Demigods (Hercules and his family by proxy) Also the cartoon probability rule, the less probable it SHOULD be the more likely it will happen. If you were to explain to the UNSC and all the armies of LotR that their entire army is going to be obliterated by a mouse it would sound like possible the most improbable thing that could happen, so it will happen.

or disney would sue, if the fans didn't murder people first

also NEVER underestimate the powers of wizards. MAgic can do anything tech can, and more. Lasers, teleportation, communication, flight, ect. Magic can do things as powerful as nukes, and even glassing if you can get a powerful enough wizard.

Now I'm not saying the UNSC are slackers or weak by any means, but I don't think they would know about magic, how to fight it or what it is capable of

and for the record I'm not a fan of any of these so I'm tryin to stay as neutral as possible

More people use tech in Halo than people use magic in LOTR. The only reason Mickey isn't dead is because he's a children's character, but if he was fed to a jackal offscreen he could be called MIA. Also if a sniper takes a shot a Herc then looks away, you know stuff like that.

Name_Violation wrote:Do you realize the hell that would rain on someone TRYING to attack mickey mouse?

I know it goes against my point, but from the few bits of video I've seen of Mickey in KH2...the dude's just badass. He THINKS Goofy was killed and he goes off to kick people's asses.

Square Enix: We made Mickey Mouse Basass.

And yet, no Disney character would ever kill anyone. They don't have it in them. Its not a matter of "could they?" its a matter of "would they?". Yes Sora and Mickey could kill someone but they wouldn't finish them...its a pretty big down fall. No "Halo-ite" would have a second thought about putting a magnum bullet in Sora's brain, and they would probably mount Mickey's head on their wall as a trophy. For once ruthlessness wins one.

Ok, tone down N_V's cartoon logic rule a tad, and keep the unknowledge factor, figuire in Gandalf, Gladriel (at least I think that's her name, the Shiny white dressed elf lady), and their buddies, Yen Sid and Merlin, and the possible Disney Castle Army, and Halo has a hard time

Halo is not as out of this as you may think. You see Halo can rebound from losses faster, their communications and vheicles give them this. It is very diffucult to wipe out a UNSC/Covenant base or ship. Yes Heartless and Nobodies can get in, but even they would require strategey to take it over. Even though they are fighting wizzards, Merlin and Yen Sid would be in a bad spot of too many enemies got in their face. Halo forces also are not as unable to grasp the KH concepts as you may belive, they have to have a good deal of learning to be in battle.

Sorry Tobiax, the topic is: Halo vs. Kingdom Hearts vs. Lord of the Rings the title does not signify any alliances so, Gandalf and Galadriel would be fighting Yen Sid and Merlin.

Those were seperate statements, talking about N_V's mention of magic,

Thebirdman wrote:Halo is not as out of this as you may think. You see Halo can rebound from losses faster, their communications and vheicles give them this. It is very diffucult to wipe out a UNSC/Covenant base or ship. Yes Heartless and Nobodies can get in, but even they would require strategey to take it over. Even though they are fighting wizzards, Merlin and Yen Sid would be in a bad spot of too many enemies got in their face. Halo forces also are not as unable to grasp the KH concepts as you may belive, they have to have a good deal of learning to be in battle.

Yes, but they wouldn't learn it quickly enough

tobiax wrote:Yes, but they wouldn't learn it quickly enough

They'd have gathered intelligence before the battle even started. This is the military. They like to know what they're supposed to kill before they kill it.

The UNSC and Covenant aren't stupid. Also if nothing can hurt a nobody how can it hurt anyone. Since the "Halo-ites" can't conceive the Nobodies are real to shoot them, they would not be injured when the Nobodies attack.(And I belive that is a check, Halo soldiers tie against Nobodies, since they can't wrap their minds around their presence and non-existance)

But, higher Nobodies look human. That could cause some problems because they look as they are human. That seems to be the main point, once you fight the human types and percive them as real it would help the mind see the others as real also.

So, either no casualties on either side(Nobodies vs. Marines) or higher Nobodies would allow Marines to shoot Nobodies...take your pick!