The Energon Pub

[Rodimus Prime]

Honestly, the quality of this book has been declining since Season 2 because James is clearly running out of steam. The thing is not a lot of people actually noticed until now because it was still MTMTE. But because of the "break" (Titans Return/Revolution), the relaunch, and the new artist, everybody lost their rose-tinted MTMTE glasses.

Agreed. Also, in my opinion, it has to do with the people working around him (the artists actually bringing the book to life with lines and colors) having been able to mask Roberts' creative shortcomings (unintentionally, I believe) with their mostly superb efforts. But that can only work so long, and finally Roberts' lack of talent to keep a reader engaged for an extended period of time is revealed through repetitive failure to make things interesting and turning the book into his own personal media, which is at the least unfair to the artists working with him. Unless of course they agree with everything he writes. His editor also shares the blame for allowing this to happen.

[Kurona]

I... personally don't find it that way. I keep going back to a lot of the Season 2 stories for certain reasons and just can't stop reading because I love them so much -- they're filled to the brim with emotion and a sense of adventure and actual, legitimate mystery. I still find myself as invested in them as I was when I first read them. When I think MTMTE and its lauded quality I -still- think back to World, Shut Your Mouth and Elegant Chaos.

Lost Light is definitely a different story. Dissolution was a bit messy to say the least, and naturally the issue (7) dealing with the aftermath of that is gonna be a bit iffy. This is the issue starting to go away from that, and it's not perfect or as good as Season 2, but it's starting to feeling better.

[ArmadaPrime]

You know, the criticism of season 2 is something that's brought up a lot and I've never really understood it. Then again, Brainstorm and (Roberts' interpretation of) Megatron are two of my favourite characters in the book by a long way, and two of the most central in the season. Perhaps it's time for a re-read to try and see past the personal bias for those characters and think about the comic as a whole.
Still not certain I'll agree with the criticism as some of the most divisive issues (swearth, personality ticks, etc) are some of my faves

[Kurona]

You know, the criticism of season 2 is something that's brought up a lot and I've never really understood it. Then again, Brainstorm and (Roberts' interpretation of) Megatron are two of my favourite characters in the book by a long way, and two of the most central in the season. Perhaps it's time for a re-read to try and see past the personal bias for those characters and think about the comic as a whole.
Still not certain I'll agree with the criticism as some of the most divisive issues (swearth, personality ticks, etc) are some of my faves

Me too! I honestly loved Swearth quite a bit -- I can see why for some people the whole Meta thing was a bit too much and too on-the-nose in that issue, but for me it worked perfectly. Wouldn't call it a favourite but it was still great.

[Shockwave 8]

You know, the criticism of season 2 is something that's brought up a lot and I've never really understood it. Then again, Brainstorm and (Roberts' interpretation of) Megatron are two of my favourite characters in the book by a long way, and two of the most central in the season. Perhaps it's time for a re-read to try and see past the personal bias for those characters and think about the comic as a whole.
Still not certain I'll agree with the criticism as some of the most divisive issues (swearth, personality ticks, etc) are some of my faves

Me too! I honestly loved Swearth quite a bit -- I can see why for some people the whole Meta thing was a bit too much and too on-the-nose in that issue, but for me it worked perfectly. Wouldn't call it a favourite but it was still great.

I completely agree with all of this. Personally, I thought season two was excellent, easily just as good as season one.

That being said, it does seem that Revolution has really thrown Roberts off his groove. Between the shifting of the story for new readers and exit of an amazing artist and an excellent editor, Lost Light certainly shifted down a peg or two.

And while I thought the newest issue was good, in past issues the development for characters like Rodimus seems to be going in reverse, as others have said. At this point, I hope Roberts is scared straight by the largely negative reception of Lost Light.

[Kurona]

Just as I agree with pretty much all you said. Lost Light's been a definite drop in quality, and I'm struggling to understand why -- I don't think it's any coincidence that it happened right after Revolution, but again, I struggle to understand how that would have affected anything when it's only OP and TAAO that would be affected by that. Heck, OP and TAAO seemed to get better if anything.

Unfamiliarity with a reshuffled creative team? Re-jigging his plans to work with possible future expanded universe events? Really bad coincidence and timing? Can't figure it out.

But, again, I think this issue is putting us back on track.

[Va'al]

Editorial reshuffle, I think.

Roberts works best with some good editing force behind him. Roche and Roberts (each editing the other) on LSTOW, Barber and Roberts on anything else, even Costa and Roberts (again, co-writing) on Chaos Theory. The recent editorial gaps at IDW have impacted the books, in my view, and new staff may not feel as confident to go Full Editor Mode with a writer with such a following and influence.

It happens, it shouldn't, we may be over it, we'll see!

[ArmadaPrime]

I feel that the relaunch did also throw a bit of a spanner in the works. Can't remember where but I think Roberts mentioned that Anode (& Lug) were originally meant to encounter the Getaway-Light and hence be introduced a little later on being the reader's eyes into the ship, this role I guess is now what's been given to First Aid et al. With the relaunch and necessity for a reader-avatar for those new to the book, they got brought forwards. One wonders if there are other things that had to be reshuffled with revolution/relaunch/etc, and whether thats a larger factor to the not-quite-there feeling some people've had than perhaps was thought

[ricemazter]

I... personally don't find it that way. I keep going back to a lot of the Season 2 stories for certain reasons and just can't stop reading because I love them so much -- they're filled to the brim with emotion and a sense of adventure and actual, legitimate mystery. I still find myself as invested in them as I was when I first read them. When I think MTMTE and its lauded quality I -still- think back to World, Shut Your Mouth and Elegant Chaos.

Certain season 2 stories I can understand, but the entirety of season 2, as a whole, doesn't hold up as well as Season 1 and is where the cracks start forming for me. I agree with you that World Shut Your Mouth is a great start to the season and Slaughter House is an excellent detour into a horror sideshow with great pathos for Megatron. Almost everything afterwards is just pretty OK with some pretty glaring structural problems for me.

Take Elegant Chaos for example. I found it an enjoyable read at the time and it's always nice to see pre-war Cybertron. But then I started thinking about it more and what it meant for the wider narrative. We basically learn that nearly every formative moment in Megatron's life is the product bumbling through the past and altering events. To me, that just kind of cheapens the preceding events, in that they're no longer the product of happenstance and choice. I'm shocked that Megatron didn't have an existential crisis as a result. That's along with a handful of other, in my opinion, negative story turns like Trailbreaker's death, the only point of which, from a character perspective, seemed to be to A. rub it in Megatron's face and B. to hurt Hot Rod/the audience when saving him via time travel doesn't work out. Although, I can forgive a lot of Elegant Chaos because the micro-moments are so good, ex: Cyclonus seeing a resplendent Cybertron after so many years.

After Elegant Chaos is also when a lot of meta-commentary starts taking place at the expense of the story itself. Swearth, on the surface a great payoff to the set up of Swerve's depression and the all too common invisibility of mental illness, turns into a commentary on the state of the comic itself and how dissatisfied Swerve/Roberts is with it. Another example is almost everything to do with the DJD once Roberts starts actively writing about them outside of their vague role as antagonists, playing up Tarn/Roller debacle only to end in an anti-climax that makes issue 39 retroactively seem like a waste of time and hurts the structure going forward. Like, one of the ongoing themes I recognized in season 2 was the death of the Decepticon cause. I don't necessarily agree with that as a story, but it could have worked much better if issue 39 was rewritten into something else (which I have my own ideas on).

Other than that, you have a number of mostly okay one and two part stories that don't have much to do with the ongoing themes of the season and are filler that gradually set up what needs to be in place for Dying of the Light to happen as it did. I generally like Roberts' one and two parter single stories, but most of the Season 2 single stories feel like events that just happen. I recognize that this is the benefit of hindsight, but, basically, I would rewrite a lot of season 2 and conclude it in a different way and axe Dissolution completely so that season 3 could start hitting the ground running. I have my own ideas of how to do that, but I won't go into it since I don't anyone wants to read that lengthy post.

[Rodimus Prime]

I enjoyed season 2 for the most part. (By the way, why are those issues referred to as season 2? This isn't a TV show) The entire series has its ups and downs, but I found that the earlier issues had more ups than downs. However, Dying of the Light left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly the ending. (I have yet to read Titans Return, so I don't know how MTMTE actually ends) It just seemed that Roberts ran out of steam, as it was said earlier. Or finally his mediocre abilities finally came to the surface from under the cover his editor and artists provided for most of the series up to then. He just simply couldn't keep the tricks going.

I didn't get into MTMTE until last year. I decided to get all the TPBs available, and I read the entire series up until issue 44 continuously. And for the most part it was fun. So I looked forward to the rest, and I liked what I got, except for issues 53 to 55. The ending of Dying of the Light was a let down. In May, I decided to re-read MTMTE in anticipation of getting the 1st volume of LL. However, I couldn't make it past issue 7. I found myself bored. If this was a really good comic, shouldn't I be eager to experience it again? Or was the 6 months between the last TPB and May not long enough? I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I take the entire run of MTMTE all at once, it's easier to recognize the drop in writing quality.

[ricemazter]

I enjoyed season 2 for the most part. (By the way, why are those issues referred to as season 2? This isn't a TV show)...Dying of the Light left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly the ending. (I have yet to read Titans Return, so I don't know how MTMTE actually ends)...

I think Roberts himself used to say that he writes comic books with an eye towards television and how narratives operate in that medium, whether or not he successfully does that is another discussion. In some interview or another he likened remain in the light to a season finale and Dying of the Light to a season 2 ending as well as a potential series ending (someone fact check me on that). As a result, the nomenclature stuck and it provides an easy way to talk about certain parts of the series for anyone familiar with it.

Yeah, Dying of the Light did a poor job of ending the series. I've complained in the past how botched Megatron's character arc ultimately was, but the cliff hanger was an unnecessary way to ensure people would continue to read after the the break and put the story in a position to get rid of Megatron.

My ideal ending: Megatron should have been caught up in the anti-matter explosion, leaving the characters to have a bitter sweet victory to close out the season without needing a geo-bomb to transport the crew to another universe in order to ditch Megs in a protracted 6 issue story that doesn't go anywhere. With Megatron gone, we could have immediately worked on getting back to the Lost Light.

Later, through some cosmic mishap or another, the crew could then get zapped to the functionist universe and discover Megatron in the middle of a revolution against the council. It could be that instead of killing him, the explosion interacted with his convoluted internal space bridge and caused him to wind up on an alternate Cybertron. Then we can go through learning about Rung's alt mode. Heck maybe he can even meet his alternate self and overcome his existential crisis that way instead of by just chatting with Night Beat.

By this point, through some adventures we can actually get to know Anode more before making her a main player and hint at her backstory before it all comes to roost with the grand architect, as opposed to dumping out her sketchy past and abilities in a couple issues, mostly through angry exposition.

That's just my two cents.

Also, you're really not missing much with Titans Return. To me, it's worse than Combined Wars and exists to set up a story line in TAAO and provide context for one of the main players in Revolutionaries.

[Insurgent]

So... uummm..... I don't know if it's because I read it when I was tired, but I thought issue 8 was..... ok. It's nice that they are finally getting back on the quest, but even that turned out to be false. This issue just seemed to be..... rambling? Is that the right word? Storywise, only the very final page felt important. And when I read that brain in the eye part, I literally threw the comic aside.

As for Lug and Anode..... this will be my only comment on it. I like the way it was explained, but it seemed forced exposition and not a natural fit for what else was going on at that time. Anode has spent the entire issue in crazy hyper excitement mode, so to suddenly shift into quiet exposition the backstory while swirling her drink mode just seemed out of place to me.



And I have serious memory issues. Can someone give me a nice detailed recap of everything we know about the Knights and the quest so far? Including the why we are looking for them? I know I could check the wiki but that info will be scattered across hundreds of pages and I don't have time to sit down and recap everything like that. People be throwing around anmes like Adapticus, and Mortilus, and I have no idea who they are. A friend pointed out that Anode seems to know the knights, and they seem responsible for what happened to Grimlock, and Lunar 1 and etc. And I'm sat here scratching my head. Atomizer was name dropped like a name I should recognise instantly, but it was lost on me. Maybe my inability to remember small details from 5 years ago is hurting my enjoyment of LL? Maybe I need to reread the entire MTMTE again from the beginning.


As for ending MTMTE, how I would have done it is to have Megatron die in the antimatter explosion. His final act is to remove the worst part of his legacy and save his new Autobot crewmates. It would have given him a warrior's death, it would ahve rounded his redemption arc out nicely and it would have meant no need to waste 6 issues just to get rid of him. It would have been a perfect ending. And no Functionist universe shift. He'd be dead. They would find pieces of his body, ensuring you knew he was dead. Although that would mean nothing because NO ONE STAYS DEAD ANYMORE AND DEATH HAS LOST ALL MEANING!!!!!!


I want to love LL as much as I loved MTME, but it's just not engaging me on quite the same level for some reason. Saying that, I would love to read a series based on megatron in the Functionist Universe and show how he tries to do the Decepticons right this time.


Also, the idea of a Decepticon based series sounds awesome. An idea a friend and I had would be to bring in Scorpinok to Cybertron, binary bonded to Zarak's son (since the human cowboy he was bonded to must be dead by now, and Zarak himself was killed in Spotlight Magnus. This would allow the titan toy to have a headmaster named Zarak too), and he's in his titan sized body. He lands on Cybertron and brings all Decepticons out of the slums of Iacon and they ahve their own city set up. But some Decepticons stay with Iacon and some Autobots and NAILS go with the cons. Then have a nice political storyline going like RID used to be. Because I was really enjoying that series and how it was exploring the politics of a post war Cybertron. But that would be a different series. Not LL.


I may have gone off topic a little.

[ricemazter]

...And I have serious memory issues. Can someone give me a nice detailed recap of everything we know about the Knights and the quest so far? Including the why we are looking for them? I know I could check the wiki but that info will be scattered across hundreds of pages and I don't have time to sit down and recap everything like that. People be throwing around anmes like Adapticus, and Mortilus, and I have no idea who they are. A friend pointed out that Anode seems to know the knights, and they seem responsible for what happened to Grimlock, and Lunar 1 and etc. And I'm sat here scratching my head. Atomizer was name dropped like a name I should recognise instantly, but it was lost on me...

...As for ending MTMTE, how I would have done it is to have Megatron die in the antimatter explosion. His final act is to remove the worst part of his legacy and save his new Autobot crewmates. It would have given him a warrior's death, it would ahve rounded his redemption arc out nicely and it would have meant no need to waste 6 issues just to get rid of him. It would have been a perfect ending. And no Functionist universe shift. He'd be dead. They would find pieces of his body, ensuring you knew he was dead. Although that would mean nothing because NO ONE STAYS DEAD ANYMORE AND DEATH HAS LOST ALL MEANING!!!!!!...

From my recollection, not much is known about the knights of Cybertron beyond that they were the first Cybertronians who left to spread peace to the universe, or so the myth goes. Adaptus and Mortilus relate to the main Cybertronian religion as "gods". Basically, Primus, the original transformer god gave life to all Cybertronians and split himself into five entities: himself, Solomus, Epistemus, Adaptus, and Mortilus. Each had a different aspect: life, wisdom, knowledge, change, and death respectively. They were called the guiding hand and ruled the nascent Cybertronian race during the first golden age of Cybertron.

Mortilus, believed that Cybertronians should turn outward and conquer the universe, and thus turned on his brothers. He was destroyed, but not before mortally wounding the rest of the hand. Primus retreated into Cybertron's core and merged with the planet, becoming Vector Sigma, gifting all transformers with sentience. Solomus, trapped by Mortilus in a crystal prison, reformatted his jail into the matrix of leadership. Epistemus and Adaptus, stripped bear by Mortilus, were converted into the first brain module and transformation cog; the designs of which were copied by the rest of Cybertronians. With Mortilus, the embodiment of death, destroyed the Cybertronian race was given immortality. With these gifts, the Knights of Cybertron departed for the stars to spread peace through the universe.

The only other information known about the Knights is that they divided themselves into five clans, each with a crest representing one of the guiding hand. The symbol that keeps showing us represents a clan connected to Adaptus.

Atomizer is one of Getaway's accomplices. He gave Rodimus the fake voting list on his captaincy, intending to blackmail him into resigning. He also, conspired with Whirl and Getaway to trick Megatron into killing Tailgate. He was the one who shot Whirl with the binary gun after Whirl expressed second thoughts on the plan. He was arrested by Magnus along with Getaway.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Well, this has certainly been a busy place...

But, a lot of points, such as those brought up by Rodimus Prime, Daniel, and Burn really hit home to me. See, I didn't get into MTMTE until Dark Cybertron. Then I bought all the old stuff and read it, and season 1 was awesome. Dark Cybertron was Dark Cybertron, but then the Brainstorm story was the best. Issues 17-21 and 35-38 were the best parts. But after Stormy's story, things sort of... peetered out. I like parts of it, especially Megs reveal at the end of 44 with the Necrobot and the flowers, and then Dying of the Light was good (but could have done more), but it slowly went down hill.

And now, Lost Light has really been a dud. Va'al, while this issue reignited your interest in the series, it lost it even more for me. they are taking Skid's death and making the most meaningful part of Dying of the Light and nearly undoing it, and they most likely will. But even the fact that the are doing this, especially fairly early on afterwards story-wise, just doesn't work.

If I'm being honest, and I am 110% being so, the only reason I am even still reading is to see the mutineers. I just hope this story doesn't remain flat but then escalate at the end if/when the quest comes to completion. I want to like it, but it is definitely the lowest of the current comics, by a fair margin.

[Insurgent]

Aahhh... Thank you. Hhmmm... Calling it now. When Unicron comes knocking, the hand will be used to transform Cybertron into robot mode to fight him.

That's the trouble i have. Ongoing narratives and plot points coming back I'm usually fine with but all this is being dropped in one off speech bubbles and small incidents instead of the main story, so the important information doesn't stick with me. Nd sorry, it wasn't agonizer, it was atomizer. The curator who i felt that name i should know. But that one i did check on the wiki and nope. First time he ppeared, though apparently he's been named dropped. I think this is why i find the random side adventures much more interesting. Oh, and i also didn't recognise flame from his one panel side view seven years ago so again, big dramatic moment with zero impact.


I just realised. You know what this reminds me of? The matt smith doctor who seasons when the ongoing stories got too big and too out of hand. It needs to streamline the narrative a little.

[Va'al]

I just realised. You know what this reminds me of? The matt smith doctor who seasons when the ongoing stories got too big and too out of hand. It needs to streamline the narrative a little.

I agree. I think it would work with tighter editorial supervision. Which it currently doesn't have.

[Kurona]

Funny someone should bring up Doctor Who as MTMTE has weirdly felt like a replacement for it for me.

I felt Doctor Who started to go completely downhill at the Series 6 finale in 2011. And what comes out that same year, just at the end? DOOP and MTMTE. I've continued to feel Doctor Who's kept being bad all throughout Series 7, 8 and 9 - some bright spots like Listen and Heaven Sent notwithstanding - while MTMTE just kept being amazing. On top of Doctor Who's hiatus in 2016, it's almost like MTMTE was a replacement for me with its sci-fi goofiness and adventure and quirky protagonists. I wish I'd started reading it sooner.

And now, when Lost Light has had what I consider to be its first not-very-good arc with Dissolution and in general the quality seems to be waning a little... I'm getting back into Doctor Who as I feel it's once again getting good. Or at least has multiple reasons to draw me back in. It's been a very strange coincidence for me.

[WreckerJack]

So... uummm..... I don't know if it's because I read it when I was tired, but I thought issue 8 was..... ok. It's nice that they are finally getting back on the quest, but even that turned out to be false. This issue just seemed to be..... rambling? Is that the right word?

It does feel a little like filler, yes. There were some things that made it worth reading. I think it is also a good rest for the reader too. Sometimes when stories get too intense its good to have a little 'fluff'. Just hope they don't unbalance it too much.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I take the entire run of MTMTE all at once, it's easier to recognize the drop in writing quality.

I have noticed that too. I started getting into MTMTE in 2015 so I read a lot of it in the first year to catch up. I did like the first few Lost Light issues but it feels like the series is losing momentum. There is a lot I like about it but I still feel like there's something missing at times.

I agree with Va'al on tighter editorial supervision. I feel like there have been some "cheap" grabs at readers recently and better editors to say no to these instances would do the series some good. I also can't stand the attempt to be "edgy" by "killing" Rung off in the alternate universe.

I'm guilty of enjoying some of the "cute" moments but I don't want the comic to turn into all cute moments. I'm not complaining at all, I just want the balance to be kept because I feel it's teetering. Moments with emotion mean so much in this series because they are unexpected. As someone who gags at light-hearted and lovey dovey things I honestly think Transformers is the only series where cute moments don't make me gag. I pray they don't overdo it and spoil that for me.

That being said the series does look like it is going to give us a lot of answers about Cybertronian life so that is a positive.

[o.supreme]

Well I never expected to see a combiner in LL, but hey as a fan of them, I'll take it. For the first time I'm actually excited for this series.




I just hope this is not a case of

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/C ... ComicBooks

[Ironhidensh]

You have my attention.

[bodrock]

I like what I'm seeing with that cover! Defensor doesn't get enough love.

[Insurgent]

Finally! I've been waiting for those guys to return.

[Soundwave902]

Getaway, you will be missed (sort of)

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Well, at least they appear to be keeping Rook.

Now please let this mutineer saga actually go right. The book has been a pretty big disappointment so far and these guys are the reason I am still interested

[Rodimus Prime]

So this issue is the conclusion of the 2nd story arc in LL?