The Energon Pub

babylon queen wrote:I agreed the seekers are the best. It wouldn't be transformers without them .Sniff ...It is why the old movie is so sad.

Yah, 15 minuets into the movie half of the characters are dead.

Whiner-tron wrote:

babylon queen wrote:I agreed the seekers are the best. It wouldn't be transformers without them .Sniff ...It is why the old movie is so sad.

Yah, 15 minuets into the movie half of the characters are dead.

Autobots aside... I never cared much for them, but yeah, they wiped out all the cool characters...Skywarp, Thundercracker and Starscream...

Sunstar wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:

babylon queen wrote:I agreed the seekers are the best. It wouldn't be transformers without them .Sniff ...It is why the old movie is so sad.

Yah, 15 minuets into the movie half of the characters are dead.

Autobots aside... I never cared much for them, but yeah, they wiped out all the cool characters...Skywarp, Thundercracker and Starscream...

Looks alikes replaced by new look alikes. The Sweeps.

Damn those Sweeps! Didnt the Insecticons get made into Sweeps along with the Seekers? Madness!

Tangent wrote:Damn those Sweeps! Didnt the Insecticons get made into Sweeps along with the Seekers? Madness!

Don't Sweeps look suspiciously like retired samurai warriors with funny pink fingernails, BTW?

And where was the Seeker factory that churned out ALL those colorful Seekers? Starscream himself must be the first Seeker to be born and then his mold was used to save costs on labor!

...either that or they're all related.

Screambug wrote:

Tangent wrote:Damn those Sweeps! Didnt the Insecticons get made into Sweeps along with the Seekers? Madness!

Don't Sweeps look suspiciously like retired samurai warriors with funny pink fingernails, BTW?

And where was the Seeker factory that churned out ALL those colorful Seekers? Starscream himself must be the first Seeker to be born and then his mold was used to save costs on labor!

I doubt it. Remember, at least according to War Within, each Seeker had a unique appearance and transformation. No two were alike. It wasn't until they came to Earth and were reformatted that they became identical in every way except color scheme.

Same alt mode type means same general appearance?

Exactly. We're also shown in the pilot episode of G1 that the Seekers transform exactly the same, and the Titaniums are recolours and remolds of each other which transform exactly the same. Dreamwave comics aren't gospel. They can't simply rewrite history.

Night Raid wrote:Same alt mode type means same general appearance?

No. And That is my point. If you have read War Within, their alternate modes were similar, but not identical. They also each transformed radically differently from one another, and their robot modes were also quite unique in appearance with only some cosmetic similarities.

Tramp, why do you take every Dreamwave comic as gospel? It isn't. As I've said, they can't simply rewrite what we've already seen and what we already know. And as we're shown in the G1 cartoon, the seekers Transform identically on Cybertron. Same with issues 17 and 18 of the marvel commic, IIRC.

Damolisher wrote:Tramp, why do you take every Dreamwave comic as gospel? It isn't. As I've said, they can't simply rewrite what we've already seen and what we already know. And as we're shown in the G1 cartoon, the seekers Transform identically on Cybertron. Same with issues 17 and 18 of the marvel commic, IIRC.

They were also impossible designs too, if you recall. There is no way for the tetrajets to transform into those earth style robots modes. As for why do I take the Dreamwave stuff as "gospel" because in all actuality that is what it is as far as core G1 is concerned. Why do you insist on completely disregarding the Dreamwave material?

I don't. I disregard Dreamwave being used as Gospel for G1, and for God's sake, it's fiction, it doesn't matter if it's possible or not. It's a kids' cartoon.

Damolisher wrote:I don't. I disregard Dreamwave being used as Gospel for G1, and for God's sake, it's fiction, it doesn't matter if it's possible or not. It's a kids' cartoon.

And not every discussion we both get involved in has to turn into an argument. Try to remember that as well please.
The War Within designs, are the most accurate and plausible Cybertronian designs. They actually work, unlike the carton designs. And it is for that reason, above all others, that they hold more weight over the old cartoon designs. The Titainium seekers are advertised as being based off of War Within, though, in all actuality, they are not. Thundercraker is close, but Starscream is far from it. As evidenced here:











You can see these desings working, and you can also see how different their transformations are, unlike them all being identical like the Titanium versions which are supposed to be based upon this comic.

It's called a factual debate. Don't tell me how to post. The reason they turn into an argument is that you think everything Dreamwave writes applies to everything, and that they're able to rewrite already established facts, such as the SEKKERS HAVING IDENTICAL TRANSFORMATIONS. OK, what is with your fetish for realism? It's not real. It is a bloody work of fiction. The Space Bridge is impossible to execute in real life too. Time travel, impossible. Planet made entirely of metal, impossible. Mass-Shifting, impossible.

Damolisher wrote:It's called a factual debate. Don't tell me how to post. The reason they turn into an argument is that you think everything Dreamwave writes applies to everything, and that they're able to rewrite already established facts, such as the SEKKERS HAVING IDENTICAL TRANSFORMATIONS. OK, what is with your fetish for realism? It's not real. It is a bloody work of fiction. The Space Bridge is impossible to execute in real life too. Time travel, impossible. Planet made entirely of metal, impossible. Mass-Shifting, impossible.

More realistic designs equates to more believable designs becasue they are funtional. It also equates to designs that could actually be built as toys if they chose to do so. Don Figueroa is the one who designed the Cybertronain modes for the Seekers in War Within. Even Simon Furman praised Figueroa's designs. As he himself put it in the preview issue,

Design after design followed (some for characters that weren't even going to be in the series), each more innovstive and breathtaking as the last (and they worked...I mean they transformed...there was no cheating invoilved).—Simon Furman on Don Figueroa's War Within desings, War Within Preview Issue, page 17.

That is why Thw War Within designs trump the original cartoon Cybertronian forms. They actually work. There is no cheating involved as there were with the cartoon versions. That makes the War Within designs better as well as more accurate.

Ugh .Why the hell do you have to get the last word all the time? Why do you always respond to rhetorical questions all the time? This isn't a matter of what's better. It's a matter of your constant stating that things in a franchise aimed at kids have to be 'scintifically possible to work.'

Damolisher wrote:Ugh .Why the hell do you have to get the last word all the time? Why do you always respond to rhetorical questions all the time? This isn't a matter of what's better. It's a matter of your constant stating that things in a franchise aimed at kids have to be 'scintifically possible to work.'

No it isn't. It is simply a matter of what is better in terms of story-telling and particularly in terms of design.

Sure it is, Tramp. Belive whatever you want, you do anyway.

Damolisher, if there is one thing you will learn about me is I always say exactly what I mean. I don't pull punches, and I don'r sugar-coat things. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I also look at things from an artist's perspective because that is what I am. I know a good design over a bad one, I know a good story over a bad one. Like it or not, The Don Figueroa Seeker designs from War Within are simply better designs than the old Cartoon Cybertronian designs. Even your much-lauded Simon Furman agrees on this matter, and he wrote War Within, in case you didn't know.

Ugh, I never said anything about bloody writing. I said that the Seeker Designs from the G1 cartoon are the official Cybertronian designs. Bloody hell, stop trying to always get the last word in. It's getting annoying. (Now watch, he'll post something in response to this.)

Damolisher wrote:Ugh, I never said anything about bloody writing. I said that the Seeker Designs from the G1 cartoon are the official Cybertronian designs. Bloody hell, stop trying to always get the last word in. It's getting annoying. (Now watch, he'll post something in response to this.)

No, Damolisher, they aren't. The War Within designs usruped that position. That is why it was War Within Thundercracker that was made into a Titanium figure, and why they were also the basis for Cybertron Starscream's design. The Don Figueroa designs are considered the official Cybertronian Seeker designs, not the old cartoon designs. Those are outdated and simply don't work.

OK, seriously, are you, like special or something? It's not real life, get it through your head. As you like to tell others: Do you have a source? Where's the official word from Hasbro that they're ignoring G1? You're so pathetic, honestly, just because you think you're opinion is right, it's automatically right. Stop using Dreamwave as gospel. It doesn't matter if it's possible or not, because it's a kids' brand! It is not real f*cking life! It is fiction! It is about giant robots from another world, which is made of metal, which isn't scientifically possible either. There has never been anything indicating that the G1 Seeker design from the cartoon doesn't matter anymore. You think Dreamwave's stuff overrides EVERYTHING. Stop trying to pass off you ignorant, incorrect opinion as fact. Stop trying to get the last word in all the time. When someone says something rhetorical, you do not have to respond. Do you understand what I am typing? Do I have to type in chinese before you get it?

Damolisher wrote:OK, seriously, are you, like special or something? It's not real life, get it through your head. As you like to tell others: Do you have a source? Where's the official word from Hasbro that they're ignoring G1? You're so pathetic, honestly, just because you think you're opinion is right, it's automatically right. Stop using Dreamwave as gospel. THE G1 SEEKER DESIGN FROM THE CARTOON IS THE OFFICIAL DESIGN. STOP TRYING TO PASS YOUR INCORRECT OPINION OFF AS FACT.

No, it isn't Damolisher. IF it were then Hasbro would have used the old Cartoon designs not worked from Don Figueroa's War Within designs. And look who is trying to pass of theiur opinion as fact. You have been doing it since the TF for Girls thread.

And ,no, I will not stop using the Dreamwave material. Why does it upset you so much that I do? It has no effect on your life. You didn't design the cartoon seekers. You weren't even born yet. The War Within designs had Hasbro's endorsment, as well as Simon Furman's—whom you yourself hold in high regard—and I did give you proof on that. It seems all you care about is the old cartoons and Marvel comics as if they are the end-all-be-all of G1. Let it go Damolisher. It's like a personal crusade or something to denounce the Dreamwave material in favor of the old cartooms and Marvel comics. Even IDW maintains its veracity since they did reprint War Within. And, If I remember correctly, Stormbringer may have also shown Starscream in his War Within form in a flash back. I can't be 100%positive on that however.

From a functionality as well as aestheitc stand point, the War Within Seeker designs are far superior to the carton designs. They are the current standard, not the old carton designs. The old cartoon design were "throw-aways", nothing more. They were cheats too, and would never make it as toys either. They would have been impossible. The Don Figueroa designs are superior and made the cartoon Cyberronian Seeker designs obsolete. IF you don't belive me, ask Don Figueroa yourself.

I'm not deriding anything, I'm just getting pissed off with you thinking everything Dreamwave does automatically makes it the official whatever. What, so since Hasbro use "Constructicon Devastator" that automatically means Devastator isn't the name of the Constructicons' combined form anymore? Because they use Micromasters, that makes him the new Devastator. AH-AH! (/Stone Cold Steve Austin) WRONG! You love cherry pickin' don'tcha?