The Energon Pub

Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

The sky is blue? Thanks.

Every community goes through fandom-splitting troubles. Star Wars had Legacy of the Force. It's about learning about these mistakes and looking towards the future. If everyone listened to the folk who dwelled on how 'bad' Revenge of the Fallen and Transformers: Animated was, Transformers would be over. But no, it's not, we've got Dark of The Moon, Transformers: Prime, and many more things to come.

Blurrz wrote:The sky is blue? Thanks.

Every community goes through fandom-splitting troubles. Star Wars had Legacy of the Force. It's about learning about these mistakes and looking towards the future. If everyone listened to the folk who dwelled on how 'bad' Revenge of the Fallen and Transformers: Animated was, Transformers would be over. But no, it's not, we've got Dark of The Moon, Transformers: Prime, and many more things to come.

This is true, but I've been in many a fandom that would use false claims of "it's not canon" to nullify any and all discussion and opinions by "undesireables" in the fanbase, whether the creators thought so or not. So far these forums haven't devolved to that, and I'm OCD enough to see they stay that way.

Whoever says that just can't accept where the movie-verse is going. It's pretty sad seeing that Transformers has so many different timelines, that they need to think that ROTF is non-canon. Sadly the only thing that's non-canon is some of the comics that have been going around, because they're just confusing.

Blurrz wrote:The sky is blue? Thanks.

And water is wet?

Really, if some people are still hung up about RotF so bad that they try to ignore it being part of the movieverse, then they themselves should be ignored. RotF was bad. Deal with it. So what? Every TF continuity has **** parts. If anything, the suck of RotF just lived up to that aspect of it being a "true" TF continuity.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Blurrz wrote:The sky is blue? Thanks.

And water is wet?

Really, if some people are still hung up about RotF so bad that they try to ignore it being part of the movieverse, then they themselves should be ignored. RotF was bad. Deal with it. So what? Every TF continuity has **** parts. If anything, the suck of RotF just lived up to that aspect of it being a "true" TF continuity.

While I'll reiterate that RotF's "badness" is strictly subjective based on personal enjoyment (KISS Players is, imo, the only irrivocably horrible TF setting), I agree with this statement. It all boils down to not ruining the entertainment of others just because you wheren't entertained. I may have thought Beast Machines was utter trash for but I won't deny it's nature as canon in the Beast Wars setting. At the same time just cause it's trash to me doesn't mean it is to everyone.

The source of discussion is not forcing your opinion, but having and sharing it.

Note: Sorry if that sounds accusatory, Rodimus. It's 6am and the caffiene hasn't kicked in yet.

It's fine. I have no problem with those who enjoyed RotF. As a matter of fact, I did as well. I saw it in theaters 8 times. Not kidding. For some reason, in theaters it was an awesome experience. And then I bought and watched the DVD and thought "what the hell?" But anyway, you have a point n saying just because some people didn't enjoy it it doesn't mean it wasn't right for others to enjoy it.

And I think Beast Machines is the bottom of the barrel as well, but I count it as part of the Beast Wars story, and sit through it when i watch that series, even knowing what's coming.

Everyone has their own personal canon, I don´t see why someone has to have an attitude about it.
Is ROTF canon? not for every Tf fan. In my case, the events depicted in the movie are fine, but the movie sucks, so I take what I like as canon and what I don´t as the Chiguagua's drugged induced dream. It´s not a big deal.
I love Beast Wars but if someone doesn´t like it as an official future for the G1 cartoon, that´s fine, I don´t have to have the same opinion as them and they don´t have to have the same opinion as me. It isn´t something that keeps me from enjoying the fiction.

To me, ROTF is canon, even if it wasn't as good as the first movie. I just hope that DOTM will be as big as everyone in media is saying.

Capt.Failure wrote:Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, RotF is canon for the movie/bay-verse, but it certainly is not canon when talking G1, Animated, Prime, Armada, etc.

There are many versions of TFs, each with their own canons.

F Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, RotF is canon for the movie/bay-verse, but it certainly is not canon when talking G1, Animated, Prime, Armada, etc.

There are many versions of TFs, each with their own canons.

Well yeah, we all know that. I'm speaking strictly within the Bayverse here.

Capt.Failure wrote:

F Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, RotF is canon for the movie/bay-verse, but it certainly is not canon when talking G1, Animated, Prime, Armada, etc.

There are many versions of TFs, each with their own canons.

Well yeah, we all know that. I'm speaking strictly within the Bayverse here.

Then I am not sure I understand your statement....how could it not be canon if you are restricting the conversation to Bayverse? If you are in Bayverse than I have to echo the comments of "the sky is blue" and "water is wet". Am I missing something here?

F Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, RotF is canon for the movie/bay-verse, but it certainly is not canon when talking G1, Animated, Prime, Armada, etc.

There are many versions of TFs, each with their own canons.

Er...that's kinda the point. Bayverse is a reboot. A new direction. A new story. It's canon. Considering there are so many multiverses and what not, it probably does fit in with G1, Beast Wars, Animated, etc.

If someone really wanted to have a cluster!@#$ of an idea, they'd find a way to fit them all into one story. It could be done. Not well, but it could be done.

I hope my post doesn't give people the idea...

F Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

F Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Whether you liked it or not, it's a well known fact that Revenge of the Fallen is still canon.

So yeah, there ya go.

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, RotF is canon for the movie/bay-verse, but it certainly is not canon when talking G1, Animated, Prime, Armada, etc.

There are many versions of TFs, each with their own canons.

Well yeah, we all know that. I'm speaking strictly within the Bayverse here.

Then I am not sure I understand your statement....how could it not be canon if you are restricting the conversation to Bayverse? If you are in Bayverse than I have to echo the comments of "the sky is blue" and "water is wet". Am I missing something here?

He's saying that people hate ROTF so much that they're saying it shouldn't exist and that it's not even canon in the Bayverse. That this upcoming film will completely wipe it from history and so on.

People are just bullheaded and ignorant sometimes. It does exist, and the third film may change it, but until then it does exist and it is canon. No matter how much they wish it were otherwise.

People suck.

Autobot032 wrote:He's saying that people hate ROTF so much that they're saying it shouldn't exist and that it's not even canon in the Bayverse. That this upcoming film will completely wipe it from history and so on.

People are just bullheaded and ignorant sometimes. It does exist, and the third film may change it, but until then it does exist and it is canon. No matter how much they wish it were otherwise.

People suck.

If people are claiming RotF isn't canon then they are confusing me. I guess I understand the thread now...just didn't know people were claiming that half of the movieverse isn't canon.

Autobot032 wrote:
Er...that's kinda the point. Bayverse is a reboot.

Yes, that is the point..and it is the point I was trying to make. That is what was confusing me.

However, now that I understand that some people are claiming RotF falls outside of its own continuity I get the point of this thread. Until then this entire conversation seemed to be a lot of saying nothing.

To give a non-Transformers example of what I mean, I present the following.

In Japan one of their most insanely popular animes, Neon Genesis Evangelion (say that five times fast and I'll buy you a beer), got itself a four part film series back in 2007 that's still in progress. Two of the films are out and they're a retelling of the series with brand new animation/effects/etc as opposed to recutting series footage with a few new scenes.

However, this retelling is also becoming vastly different plotwise from the original series. While anime fans in general have reacted VERY positively to the films (parts 3 and 4 have an "unlimited budget" due to the success of the last two), Evangelion's original fans have reacted...poorly.

I bring this up as an example because the long time fans don't consider the films canon, especially the second, where things go off the rails the most. It's similar because the series creator considers it a) canon and b) a retelling. Just like how Bay faces oppoistion from Transformers fans and a) Bayverse canon is his to decide and b) the Bayverse is an alternate universe/retelling.

But now I'm rambling and close to going off topic. So I'll end this post here.

Capt.Failure wrote:To give a non-Transformers example of what I mean, I present the following.

In Japan one of their most insanely popular animes, Neon Genesis Evangelion (say that five times fast and I'll buy you a beer), got itself a four part film series back in 2007 that's still in progress. Two of the films are out and they're a retelling of the series with brand new animation/effects/etc as opposed to recutting series footage with a few new scenes.

However, this retelling is also becoming vastly different plotwise from the original series. While anime fans in general have reacted VERY positively to the films (parts 3 and 4 have an "unlimited budget" due to the success of the last two), Evangelion's original fans have reacted...poorly.

I bring this up as an example because the long time fans don't consider the films canon, especially the second, where things go off the rails the most. It's similar because the series creator considers it a) canon and b) a retelling. Just like how Bay faces oppoistion from Transformers fans and a) Bayverse canon is his to decide and b) the Bayverse is an alternate universe/retelling.

But now I'm rambling and close to going off topic. So I'll end this post here.

See, this is the problem. You hit the nail right on the head.

Multi-generational fandoms can be positive and each generation has something to offer.

On the flip side, they can be absolute pain. Especially the older generations. They seem to think that the object of their affections can't evolve. They're wrong. It has to to survive.

We can't continue being G1 forever. How many times can Prime die and be resurrected? How many times can Megatron be defeated? How many times will Starscream come up with a conniving plan?

How about honoring the past with homages, but branching out in different areas on the main story and the characters?

But see, we can't have that. We'll always have someone in the nosebleed seats screaming "THOSE AREN'T MY TRANSFORMERS! NOW WHERE'S MY CANE? I'M OLD, DAMMIT! SOMEONE CHANGE MY DEPENDS!"

While the rest of us are sitting here thinking "Seriously? Go find a new hobby. Geez."

I enjoyed RotF for what it was. It was only after reading some of the bad reactions I started seeing all of the flaws in it, and even then it doesn't bother me that much.