The Energon Pub

place your bets.

Magneto takes Yoda's Lightsaber. Yoda crushes Magneto with a giant rock. Or crushes Magneto's head. Or his lungs. Or anything, really. Yoda wins. A Jedi doesn't need a Lightsaber to be deadly. And as Mark Hamill put it, "Don't f*** with the Jedi Master, son!"

I agree; Yoda will f*ck Magneto up!

Magneto's pretty damn powerful, but I have to give it to Yoda. Jedi Masters can do all kinds of crazy things.

Magneto takes Yoda's lightsaber and tries to cut Yoda up. Yoda uses the force to push Magneto off the Cloud City.

OR

Magneto takes the lightsaber and yoda kills him with a rock.

"Don't f*ck with the Jedi Master, son!"

I prefer Yoda to Magneto. But in terms of their ability, I think Magneto will win. lol

Magneto can cause people to have aneurysms and heart attacks by screwing around with the iron in your blood. He can also blanket planets with electromagnetic pulses and nullify technology. Or pick up vehicles as large as S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarriers and fling them at targets. S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarriers are pretty damn big too. Magneto would win if there's any amount of metal around, or if he's able to screw with Yoda's blood like he can with humans.

if yoda mind control powers work through mag's helmet, then it really depends on who gets the first shot. If not then magneto.

kjyl wrote:if yoda mind control powers work through mag's helmet, then it really depends on who gets the first shot. If not then magneto.

Magneto designed his helmet to block out psychic attacks somehow. It was done to counter Professor Xavier who was once a friend of Magneto's. So Jedi Mindtricks wouldn't work on him. It would be their fighting skills against each other. And as we can both agree Magneto would most likely beat Yoda.

that the one thing though, are the jedi mind tricks the same as telepathy? if they are mags is just way to powerful for yoda. But it is still the one unknown.

I'm not sure if it's the same kind of telepathy as mutant telepathy but I'm willing to bet it's related. In that event it would partially block the Mind Tricks. And Magneto has a strong enough will (he survived a Concentration Camp as a kid) that he could probably power through a Jedi Mind rape. And if he can get past that he outclasses Yoda in terms of sheer power.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:I'm not sure if it's the same kind of telepathy as mutant telepathy but I'm willing to bet it's related. In that event it would partially block the Mind Tricks. And Magneto has a strong enough will (he survived a Concentration Camp as a kid) that he could probably power through a Jedi Mind rape. And if he can get past that he outclasses Yoda in terms of sheer power.

It is not the same as telepathy, no. Force powers are not the same as psychic powers. Force powers work by affecting the target's connection to the Force. Those with no connection to the Force, can't even be affected by a simple Push. So far, the only beings known to possess no connection to the Force are Droids and the Yuuzhan Vong. As such, Magneto can't block out his connection to the Force simply by covering his head with tinfoil.

Likewise, while a strong will can RESIST Persuasion, if the Jedi were to be more "assertive" with it, they could either cause even the strongest wills to crack and be persuaded...or it could just put them in a vegetative state. Mace Windu, Anakin, and Obi-Wan all used Persuasion on Cad Bane at the same time. Even though the persuasion didn't work, it still caused him enough pain that he complied with them just to keep them from trying it again.

As for your evidence of Magneto pulling down a SHIELD helicarrier, I submit Starkiller pulling down an Imperial Star Destroyer, a much bigger starship. Though I'm not sure if Starkiller is stronger or weaker than Yoda, from what I've seen, they're pretty much the same, at least in terms of combat.

As for Magneto being able to kill people by messing with the iron in their blood, you have any scans or images of when he's used this? Because if he has such a lethal ability, why do people even live after fighting him?

None on my Hard Drive, but he's used his powers when he reformed to knock people out and he's said that if he didn't do it just right it could kill them. The reason why you don't see him use that is Magneto doesn't murder his own people. And he mostly fights mutants. He also doesn't see himself as a murderer, he sees his action as defending himself and his cause. He wouldn't want to give them martyrs to rally behind.

As far as Magneto's resilience to psychic attack? Only the strongest telepaths can effect him and only if he's taken by surprise. And his willpower is uncanny. I honestly think the only person in Marvel's universe that has more willpower then Eric would be Dr. Doom who is also immune to all forms of psychic attack.

Magneto has consistently and frequently been depicted as resisting all but the strongest or most unexpected telepathic attacks. In once instance, Magneto was shown able to hold off Xavier's attacks long enough to unscrew Xavier's chair from a boat, and levitate Xavier two miles and into the range of a device that nullified mutant powers. A number of explanations has been proposed for this over the years, such as: anti-telepathy technology wired into his helmet,latent telepathic powers (during the Secret Wars saga), some physical aspect of his electromagnetic powers that can interfere with telepathy (he once used the Earth's magnetic field to dampen the powers of all telepaths within his reach) or sheer willpower (X-Men Vol. 2 #2). In some of his earlier appearances, Magneto was also able to engage in astral projection, read other's dreams, issue telepathic commands and probe the minds of others.[43]. The most extreme example of this resistance was in X-Men Vol. 2 #25, the Fatal Attractions crossover, in which Magneto held off the combined telepathic might of Xavier and Jean Grey without his helmet on.

And in response to the limits of what he can use his powers to manipulate:

Magneto can manipulate the electromagnetic force to achieve a wide range of effects.

Such effects include the creation of force-fields which can selectively block out matter and energy (while they usually allow sound and visible light to pass through so Magneto can interact with other characters, they can also shut out sonic blasts and shockwaves, as well as lasers and nuclear explosions). Thanks to this, Magneto is invulnerable to most harm when his personal field is active and can survive in deep space.

He can freely manipulate electromagnetic energy in all frequencies of the spectrum, control and create electromagnetic fields and generate massive EMPs. He has also been depicted using his powers to affect both magnetic and nonmagnetic materials down to the sub-atomic level, although element transmutation strains him significantly and it seems a lot easier for him to manipulate the former. He has levitated objects as heavy as a 30,000 ton nuclear submarine and pulled a large amount of asteroids from their orbits in the solar system's asteroid belt to entirely block sunlight from reaching the earth, the maximum quantity of mass that he can affect at one time is unknown.

He can also channel his magnetic powers through his own body so as to appear to temporarily increase his strength, stamina, and agility to superhuman levels.

He has demonstrated the capacity to warp the space/time continuum and create a wormhole to safely teleport himself and others. This, however, can only be explained by manipulation of gravity - it has been suggested he might be able to control all four Fundamental Forces of matter.

Sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%2 ... _abilities

This would put Magneto on par with or exceeding even a master user of The Force.

I think Yoda could win this fight quite easily.

Yoda is not human, so who says he has magnetic substances in his body. Is there evidence? As for Magnetos helmet, that wouldn't make a difference and even if it did, it could be removed quite easily.

Isn't Yoda spoke of as the most powerful Jedi with only one exception? He is not somebody that you want to mess with.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:As far as Magneto's resilience to psychic attack? Only the strongest telepaths can effect him and only if he's taken by surprise. And his willpower is uncanny. I honestly think the only person in Marvel's universe that has more willpower then Eric would be Dr. Doom who is also immune to all forms of psychic attack.

That's fine, but as I explained, Psychic resistance means nothing when we're talking about the Force. There are plenty of species who aren't affected by Persuasion, (Jedi Mind Trick is technically incorrect since Sith can use it as well) but if a skilled Jedi can focus hard enough, they can cause serious mental trauma. As I explained before, Cad Bane was also supposed to be resistant to Persuasion, and while the combined efforts of Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Mace Windu still didn't get him to crack, it caused him enough pain that he complied with them anyway.

I mean, he stabbed them in the back ten minutes later, but still.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:This would put Magneto on par with or exceeding even a master user of The Force.

No. Just no. Compared to Luke, Magneto is nothing. And to put things simply, Luke was not as powerful as Yoda. Yoda disabled an army of Super Battle Droids simply by running while using Force Push.

You're a bit delusional Shadowman.

For one it's obvious that Luke surpassed Yoda. He was more or less the Jedi's Messiah. And it doesn't matter what Luke can do. This is Yoda vs. Magneto. And Magneto could not only hold his own against Yoda, he can and will beat him. Magneto doesn't care about aliens or humans, he only cares about mutants. So there would be absolutely no mercy or remorse in his actions. He would do exactly what he had to do to take Yoda down. Yoda has always been a bit reluctant to kill. While Magneto will kill when necessary or when his opponent is of a race other than Homo Superior.

We're talking about a man that survived Auschwitz as a child. A man that grew up hating humanity, and who is so willful that he was able to withstand psychic assault from two of the most powerful psychics of his universe without the aid of his psychic dampening helmet. Magneto is capable of generating a force field that selectively repels all matter, he chooses what gets in and what doesn't. With it he's capable of flying himself through space. Eric is also immune to electrical attacks, as electricity and magnetism are related. He's also able to physically augment himself with his powers giving him super human strength, speed, an stamina. And he's manipulated powers that seem to be unrelated to magnetism, many think that he's able to manipulate the fundamental energies that make up all matter and life. Meaning it's entirely possible for him to tap into the Force. And if he can't then he's still powerful enough to nullify just about anything that Yoda could throw at him.

Your trump card is that Yoda disabled an army of Super Battle Droids by running and using Force Push. Big deal. Magneto can disable an army of Sentinels (40-60 ft. tall robots specifically designed to hunt down mutants) by standing and gesturing at them. Light sabers are made of metal, the second Yoda draws his Eric's going to magnetically grab it from him and disassemble it. If Yoda has any amount of metal on him Magneto can use it to fling him around like a rag doll. Or worse grab him with it and fly him up into space and suffocate him to death.

Yoda's a hard ass, but Magneto is one of the most powerful mutants in Marvel. Yoda doesn't stand much of a chance against him.

To paraphrase a quotation from one of my favorite episodes of Batman: TAS, when asking Yoda how he would have defeated Magneto, he would respond "I threw a rock at him." (or "A rock at him I threw.")

Control over matter that has electromagnetic properties vs. Control over all matter


HELLO!?!?!?

Predaprince wrote:To paraphrase a quotation from one of my favorite episodes of Batman: TAS, when asking Yoda how he would have defeated Magneto, he would respond "I threw a rock at him." (or "A rock at him I threw.")

Control over matter that has electromagnetic properties vs. Control over all matter


HELLO!?!?!?

I refer you to something I've already posted:

Such effects include the creation of force-fields which can selectively block out matter and energy (while they usually allow sound and visible light to pass through so Magneto can interact with other characters, they can also shut out sonic blasts and shockwaves, as well as lasers and nuclear explosions). Thanks to this, Magneto is invulnerable to most harm when his personal field is active and can survive in deep space.

In X-Men Vol. 2 #1 The US government tries to kill Magneto with nukes. He deflects the explosion with his force field. It's the only reason Rogue lived through the explosion too, because she was partially inside Magneto's field. He allowed her. They used to have a thing.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Yoda has always been a bit reluctant to kill.

Really? When those two Clone Troopers were about to shoot him on Kashyyyk, I don't recall him just talking them down, he ignited his Lightsaber and cut their heads off, then followed that by decapitating all of the Clones in the Jedi Temple, and then attempting to decapitate Sidious. He's got 900 years of experience behind him, he knows when negotiations are over.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Meaning it's entirely possible for him to tap into the Force. And if he can't then he's still powerful enough to nullify just about anything that Yoda could throw at him.

No, he can't. Magneto has a mutation that allows him to affect electro-magnetic fields. Not the Force. And even if he could, he'd have no training and would be lucky just to make Yoda stumble a bit with it.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Light sabers are made of metal, the second Yoda draws his Eric's going to magnetically grab it from him and disassemble it. If Yoda has any amount of metal on him Magneto can use it to fling him around like a rag doll. Or worse grab him with it and fly him up into space and suffocate him to death.

It'd be a bit hard while Magneto's esophagus is being crushed.

You guys all realise that all rocks are formed from metallic elements, right? And that Magento could easily tear any ore from the ground to envelope Yoda, or at the very least, disintegrate all these rocks you insist are being thrown?
Also, the force stems from blood-borne bacteria. Blood. Like, laced with iron. Iron that Magento can manipulate. The second Yoda starts trying to force-push the strongest-willed individual in all of Marvel continuity, he's going to find himself very short on blood - and, thusly, midichlorians. Failing that, if it's his own personal connection to the force which allows him to be manipulated, he'd once again be able to manipulate his own bloodstream to destroy said midichlorians. Either way, it's moot, as all radiation is electromagnetic. With one pulse of gamma waves, Magneto would be able to kill anything living around him. Anything. Including your argument.

Jeep? wrote:You guys all realise that all rocks are formed from metallic elements, right? And that Magento could easily tear any ore from the ground to envelope Yoda, or at the very least, disintegrate all these rocks you insist are being thrown?

This is infact very wrong. most rocks are composed of non ferrus materials. (fun side note: if you get steel to around 1350 f +, depending on the carbon , it becomes non-magnetic) the ore thing is possible but unlikley.

Jeep? wrote:Also, the force stems from blood-borne bacteria. Blood. Like, laced with iron. Iron that Magento can manipulate. The second Yoda starts trying to force-push the strongest-willed individual in all of Marvel continuity, he's going to find himself very short on blood - and, thusly, midichlorians.

we dont know if yoda has iron in his blood, it could very well be copper, like spock. so it is a bit of a moot point

Jeep? wrote:Failing that, if it's his own personal connection to the force which allows him to be manipulated, he'd once again be able to manipulate his own bloodstream to destroy said midichlorians. Either way, it's moot, as all radiation is electromagnetic. With one pulse of gamma waves, Magneto would be able to kill anything living around him. Anything. Including your argument.

Is mags really this powerful now in the comics? if so he really took a leap into mary-suedom. and when did he start being able to generate other types of radiation?

The rocks don't need to be ferrous. Magneto's control extends to all metals. His primary mutation is control of the electromagnetic spectrum (which is the entire spectrum - gamma waves right through to radio waves, and everything in between) - but his secondary power is the manipulation of all metallic elements, which includes any and all rocks which aren't purely non-metal chemically. Magneto's name is a bit of a misnomer, as his power over metal isn't actually magnetic - it's more telekinetic. He can manipulate copper or sodium or molybdenum or samarium just as easily are iron or cobalt.

kjyl wrote:Is mags really this powerful now in the comics? if so he really took a leap into mary-suedom.

Also here. I'm not really too sure Lee and Kirby are fanfic writers.

kjyl wrote:

Jeep? wrote:Failing that, if it's his own personal connection to the force which allows him to be manipulated, he'd once again be able to manipulate his own bloodstream to destroy said midichlorians. Either way, it's moot, as all radiation is electromagnetic. With one pulse of gamma waves, Magneto would be able to kill anything living around him. Anything. Including your argument.

Is mags really this powerful now in the comics? if so he really took a leap into mary-suedom. and when did he start being able to generate other types of radiation?

For about 15-20 years or so. You did read the post I made where it said that he can manipulate gravity right? And that it's hinted that he controls the elemental energies that make up all matter? Also stop using buzzwords like Mary-Sue incorrectly. It makes you sounds stupid and renders your argument null. For the record Mary Sue is a fanfiction term. It originated in a Star Trek fan fiction. The new character (if you don't see her name coming I don't know what's wrong with you...) Mary Sue quickly became the most beloved member of the crew. She was better at everything then everyone else, and saved the day by dying heroicly. All the main characters mourned her. It was a parody of poopy fanfiction characters being inserted into fanfics and being better than everyone else.

Magneto is a canon character and the primary antagonist to an entire team of heroes he routinely fights by himself (Yes, he has had teams he lead in the past and present. No, he didn't always use them.), so he needs to be powerful to be a believable threat to the X-Men.

Jeep? wrote:Also, the force stems from blood-borne bacteria. Blood. Like, laced with iron. Iron that Magento can manipulate. The second Yoda starts trying to force-push the strongest-willed individual in all of Marvel continuity, he's going to find himself very short on blood - and, thusly, midichlorians.

First off, midi-chlorians are not restricted to blood. They're present in "all living cells." Likewise, and this is important, midi-chlorians aren't the Force, but having a high midi-chlorian count can allow someone to manipulate the Force. That's the misconception that makes the "m-word" so unpopular, a lot of people took what Qui-Gon said to mean midi-chlorians WERE the Force, but they only allow one to make use of it.

Second, who says there's metal in Yoda's blood? He's not human, and barely anything is known about his species.

And while we're at it, from the Star Wars Wiki:

Luke Skywalker was one of, if not the, the most powerful Jedi to ever exist, as he demonstrated powers and abilities that sometimes surpassed even Grand Master Yoda.

You see that last part? That's why I posted that link to Luke earlier. "sometimes surpassed even Grand Master Yoda." Meaning he was usually on par with Yoda, and occasionally did better.