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shajaki wrote:Hasbro is the one getting the blunt of the pressure from PM. I doubt they'll ever have a hand in an Exhaust type figure again unless the homage is so far removed that it loses most of its meaningRiddlerJ wrote:If The Botcon people were smart, they'd do a version of Exhaust out of the Generations Wheeljack mold.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:shajaki wrote:Hasbro is the one getting the blunt of the pressure from PM. I doubt they'll ever have a hand in an Exhaust type figure again unless the homage is so far removed that it loses most of its meaningRiddlerJ wrote:If The Botcon people were smart, they'd do a version of Exhaust out of the Generations Wheeljack mold.
I'm curious to know if the ruling applies to "Toys and Games" only, or at the very least any category which has children exclusively as a target audience (which would exclude "Adult Collectibles"), or basically any type of merchandise category.
We really need someone with a Law Degree here on the boards
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:shajaki wrote:Hasbro is the one getting the blunt of the pressure from PM. I doubt they'll ever have a hand in an Exhaust type figure again unless the homage is so far removed that it loses most of its meaningRiddlerJ wrote:If The Botcon people were smart, they'd do a version of Exhaust out of the Generations Wheeljack mold.
I'm curious to know if the ruling applies to "Toys and Games" only, or at the very least any category which has children exclusively as a target audience (which would exclude "Adult Collectibles"), or basically any type of merchandise category.
We really need someone with a Law Degree here on the boards
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Rated X wrote:Whats shady about exploiting a grey area ? Politicians do it for a living. As I stated earlier, its not illegal to own (or sell) a marlboor wheeljack in the US. Its only illegal to advertise and market it as a "childrens product" in the US because it promotes tobacco. (according to phill morris who wants his piece of the pie) So if you do away with the whole "advertising" aspect of selling the product, you can legally sell it to adults in the US. (With paypal account being proof of legal age) Its that simple. So yes all these smaller retailers that are following bbts/tf sources lead are truly spineless and stupid. Its their profit loss, not mine. I got my classics Exhaust already. I dont collect MP.
You forget, no matter how much you try and sugar-coat it, legally Masterpiece Exhaust falls in the "Toy" category, because Hasbro and TakaraTomy, down to their cores, are "Toys and Games" companies and rtegistered as such, end of story. No matter the audience (children vs. adults) or the intent (like collecting). There is a category for "Adult Collectible" I believe, but only for companies that produce those, and only those. Look at FunPub and how their boxes say "Adult Collectible" with an age to match.
You're right about it not being illegal to own him, but selling him in bulk as a registered store will get you in trouble. And don't even think changing a products' category will change that, in fact that would only add fraud to the offenses once investigations have been completed.
Could anyone with a Legal Degree (which means someone who actually studied law) come here and explain a thing or two?
Agent-539 wrote:The legal issue has been explained a thousand and one times. Are some people having a hard time understanding that PM has done their homework to block domestically? That Bot and a few others are correct. It's not economically sound to challange a lawsuit to discover a loop-hole just push push a few units domestically. Hasbro and Takara would have to change their business catagory and anybody remember Joe Camel?
Seibertron wrote:I think the biggest thing I learned about Masterpiece Exhaust was how quickly retailers complied with Philip Morris' lawyers. Now if only Hasbro's lawyers would follow in those footsteps to do the same with 3rd party products.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
It's also worth noting, that the motivation would be completely different as well. PM is doing this to protect themselves from something potentially illegal, not because they want profits from something stealing their likeness.megatronus wrote:Your personal animus of 3rd Parties aside, a legal challenge by Hasbro is in no way worth it for them. Marlboro's white/red triangle design is trademarked and an essential piece of the brand - it would be impossible for Hasbro to protect their hundreds of characters in the same way, especially when 3rd Parties' fudge the design cues that make certain characters recognizably Hasbro's. Plus... the MSA that PM must adhere to is a huge incentive to quash infringement - the resulting penalties should they not take action would be massive. Hasbro doesn't have the same noose around its neck.
Absolutely. I've always felt that 3P's actually inspire people to buy MORE official products. For the most part, 3P is there merely to supplement your existing official collection. CW has definitely won many fans back from the 3P scene, as well as the refocused direction of the MP line since MP09. They just need to plant seeds is all. For example: give us a redesigned MP Grimlock or another Dinobot scaled with MP10 to hint at the rest of the team. Eh?megatronus wrote:Honestly, I think Hasbro is doing a great job competing on its own terms. CW is shaping up to be their best effort in years. 3rd Parties have lately shifted its focus to MP- styled figures, and of Takara steps up its efforts in that area, I can see the market for 3rd Party figures shrinking significantly.
Seibertron wrote:I think the biggest thing I learned about Masterpiece Exhaust was how quickly retailers complied with Philip Morris' lawyers. Now if only Hasbro's lawyers would follow in those footsteps to do the same with 3rd party products.
Rodimus Prime wrote:You can't make me disappear. I am not feet.
OptimalOptimus2 wrote:I've never heard of this Exhaust character, but he looks pretty neat!
mblase75 wrote:A couple relevant photos of the original(s):
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
Seibertron wrote:I think the biggest thing I learned about Masterpiece Exhaust was how quickly retailers complied with Philip Morris' lawyers. Now if only Hasbro's lawyers would follow in those footsteps to do the same with 3rd party products.
megatronus wrote:Seibertron wrote:I think the biggest thing I learned about Masterpiece Exhaust was how quickly retailers complied with Philip Morris' lawyers. Now if only Hasbro's lawyers would follow in those footsteps to do the same with 3rd party products.
That's just never going to happen...
Your personal animus of 3rd Parties aside, a legal challenge by Hasbro is in no way worth it for them. Marlboro's white/red triangle design is trademarked and an essential piece of the brand - it would be impossible for Hasbro to protect their hundreds of characters in the same way, especially when 3rd Parties' fudge the design cues that make certain characters recognizably Hasbro's. Plus... the MSA that PM must adhere to is a huge incentive to quash infringement - the resulting penalties should they not take action would be massive. Hasbro doesn't have the same noose around its neck.
Honestly, I think Hasbro is doing a great job competing on its own terms. CW is shaping up to be their best effort in years. 3rd Parties have lately shifted its focus to MP- styled figures, and of Takara steps up its efforts in that area, I can see the market for 3rd Party figures shrinking significantly.
shajaki wrote:It's also worth noting, that the motivation would be completely different as well. PM is doing this to protect themselves from something potentially illegal, not because they want profits from something stealing their likeness.megatronus wrote:Your personal animus of 3rd Parties aside, a legal challenge by Hasbro is in no way worth it for them. Marlboro's white/red triangle design is trademarked and an essential piece of the brand - it would be impossible for Hasbro to protect their hundreds of characters in the same way, especially when 3rd Parties' fudge the design cues that make certain characters recognizably Hasbro's. Plus... the MSA that PM must adhere to is a huge incentive to quash infringement - the resulting penalties should they not take action would be massive. Hasbro doesn't have the same noose around its neck.Absolutely. I've always felt that 3P's actually inspire people to buy MORE official products. For the most part, 3P is there merely to supplement your existing official collection. CW has definitely won many fans back from the 3P scene, as well as the refocused direction of the MP line since MP09. They just need to plant seeds is all. For example: give us a redesigned MP Grimlock or another Dinobot scaled with MP10 to hint at the rest of the team. Eh?megatronus wrote:Honestly, I think Hasbro is doing a great job competing on its own terms. CW is shaping up to be their best effort in years. 3rd Parties have lately shifted its focus to MP- styled figures, and of Takara steps up its efforts in that area, I can see the market for 3rd Party figures shrinking significantly.
Seibertron wrote:Had the 3rd party companies just stuck to creating accessories for official Hasbro products, I would have continued my support for those products as well. I was really excited about City Commander back in the day, and for those of you who recall, we had the world exclusive gallery premiere of that set which was a pretty amazing set back in 2008. Had 3rd party companies continued down that path, I would have been fine with it because it's like buying aftermarket accessories for cars. Companies that make aftermarket products for cars don't make their own cars that are rip-offs of Corvettes, Town and Countries, Thunderbirds, Challengers, Lamborghinis, VW Bugs, etc. If there was a clear-cut way to support the products that require the official Transformers products but not support the products that you can by-pass Hasbro and Takara's products, I would be onboard, but it's too difficult to support one without supporting the other so it's just easier to take a stance against all of it for the time being.
It's sad to see so many fans staunchly defending 3rd party products. What's even more bizarre to me is that many of you think you have a right to those products. It's odd that it's so black and white to myself and to others yet so muddied for everyone else. The "as long as I get what I want to get regardless of how I get it" attitude that is so prevalent amongst 3rd party collectors baffles me.
I'll continue fighting the fight on my end and doing my part behind the scenes because I feel that's right. Something positive might be coming out of my anti-3rd party stance for Seibertron.com ... someone on an official level acknowledged Seibertron.com's stance and what doors it might open for Seibertron.com. It felt wonderful to finally have someone on an official level acknowledge that they had taken note of this. It is frustrating fighting this fight when so many of you seem unconcerned by the ill effects of 3rd party products on the Transformers brand.
Seibertron wrote:Had the 3rd party companies just stuck to creating accessories for official Hasbro products, I would have continued my support for those products as well. I was really excited about City Commander back in the day, and for those of you who recall, we had the world exclusive gallery premiere of that set which was a pretty amazing set back in 2008. Had 3rd party companies continued down that path, I would have been fine with it because it's like buying aftermarket accessories for cars. Companies that make aftermarket products for cars don't make their own cars that are rip-offs of Corvettes, Town and Countries, Thunderbirds, Challengers, Lamborghinis, VW Bugs, etc. If there was a clear-cut way to support the products that require the official Transformers products but not support the products that you can by-pass Hasbro and Takara's products, I would be onboard, but it's too difficult to support one without supporting the other so it's just easier to take a stance against all of it for the time being.
Seibertron wrote:It's sad to see so many fans staunchly defending 3rd party products. What's even more bizarre to me is that many of you think you have a right to those products. It's odd that it's so black and white to myself and to others yet so muddied for everyone else. The "as long as I get what I want to get regardless of how I get it" attitude that is so prevalent amongst 3rd party collectors baffles me.
Seibertron wrote:I'll continue fighting the fight on my end and doing my part behind the scenes because I feel that's right. Something positive might be coming out of my anti-3rd party stance for Seibertron.com
...
someone on an official level acknowledged Seibertron.com's stance and what doors it might open for Seibertron.com. It felt wonderful to finally have someone on an official level acknowledge that they had taken note of this.
It is frustrating fighting this fight when so many of you seem unconcerned by the ill effects of 3rd party products on the Transformers brand.
SkyWarpt wrote:Have to agree on this one, as the proof is there. Go back and look through the comments of MP Magnus before his release. There were many people deciding whether to put their money towards the Stacks or official release Magnus. It's highly likely purchases that would have been in Takara's hand went to KFC instead, which lowers the success of the Official Masterpiece line as a whole. Personally, I can't help but think Shockwave and Dinobots MP releases may be stiffled a bit by the release of third party products. I kinda wish some of those 3rd parties went through the proper channels and got hired or contracted as engineers so they would be official products furthering the success of the brand rather than taking away from it.
sol magnus wrote:I didn't know you had a bias against 3P figures until a few posts ago! That's interesting to say the least.
sol magnus wrote:For my part, here is my feeling on it. There isn't a 3rd party figure made that if HasTak produces one better than the one that extists, I wouldn't pay for it. Examples - I own a City Commander set and Target Ultra Magnus. When I sold off my CHUG figures, I kept two out of all of them. Ultra Magnus and Springer. Springer is important because I owned (and sold off) the Warbot Defender they made when there wasn't an acceptable Hasbro alternative. Magnus and City Commander I will probably never get rid of, because Ultra Magnus is my favorite character. Although I am "strictly" a MP collector now, dollars to donuts I will purchase the Leader Ultra Magnus when it comes out. Up til Apollyon and Brawny, I stayed away from 3P Masterpiece, but I have gotten (or pre-ordered) those two, and I'm strongly considering Spinout (Sunstreaker) because HasTak doesn't seem to have any immediate plans to add them to the line. However, if and when they do, I would gladly spend the money to buy an official HasTak product to go with what I own.
sol magnus wrote:In my case (and I'm sure others), Hasbro isn't losing one cent they aren't already getting from me. It suppliments a collection that cost a considerable amount of money to acquire and will continue to add up as time goes on. The 3P guys are getting paid, too because I'm not taking away money from HasTak to buy their product. Like Megatronus, I'm not infringing on anyone else's beliefs with what I am doing with my collecting habits, but it can be construed the other way around. For me, it's black and white...not muddied at all.
sol magnus wrote:I enjoy the official coverage I get here at Seibertron.com, but I think it would be a sadder collecting world without 3P products to fill the gaps while I wait for official ones.
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