Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Ironhidensh » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:00 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The comparison is apples and oranges though. Ultra Magnus was released in 2014, Dinobot was in 2018. Since that time, G1 prices are all over the place with no justification. Beast Wars MP line has had a consistency to its pricing, based in scale.

.


Hey man, if that excuse works for you, and makes you happy with your purchases, good for you. It doesnt work for me, and I will no longer throw money in the trash.


Unless demand seems to be going nuts. I will admit, I was able to resell Dinobot on eBay for a handsome profit. :-D
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:12 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The only thing Takara has "figured out" is how to fleece the Geewun fanbase to an outrageous level. Yet they, in general, seem to find it acceptable.


Just a drop in the ocean for all the "3P" buyers out there, I'm sure. >:oP

Honestly, I'm taken aback with the choice of Blackarachnia, not going with Tarantulas first. I guess it's practice with the more difficult one first?
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:20 pm

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Ironhidensh wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The comparison is apples and oranges though. Ultra Magnus was released in 2014, Dinobot was in 2018. Since that time, G1 prices are all over the place with no justification. Beast Wars MP line has had a consistency to its pricing, based in scale.

.


Hey man, if that excuse works for you, and makes you happy with your purchases, good for you. It doesnt work for me, and I will no longer throw money in the trash.


Unless demand seems to be going nuts. I will admit, I was able to resell Dinobot on eBay for a handsome profit. :-D



I don't need excuses. In the UK we're used to being charged more than something is actually worth. I've said before I will support this line because I enjoy Beast Wars more than anything else within Transformers.
I will pay £230 for Megatron because I know he is the ceiling price of this line and a one-off hike. But I have still limits. I wouldn't exceed that sum however. Be that 3p or Overpriced Prime, because no toy is worth that. To think so, is a false economy.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Immortal Starscream » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:21 pm

1000 times YES. This is truly a masterpiece fig, not like that bee. (keep in mind there are no pics of her spider mode, so that opinion can change) as for the price arguments here, there's another factor that people aren't counting when dealing with her price point. its not just the size of the figure, but the amount of parts and plastic used. think about it this way: the new siege leaders are smaller then the old leaders. but most of the old leaders were super hollow, and in most cases pre POTP were also fairly simple. current leaders, yes even that shockwave that shoulda been a voyager without the add on parts are not hollow, have much more detail and a lot more parts. the more detailed a piece is as well, the more the paint costs. and yes, the display base is a factor. (btw if you didn't know, those beastwars display bases work with all transformers from recent years with the peg fitting securely into the display holes in every fig since combiner wars) and the cost of production keeps sky rocketing every year. so if your hoping she will be around the same as cheetor, I'm sorry to dash that hope but its very unlikely. I would wager she will be between $100 -$150 range.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby william-james88 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:15 pm

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Ironhidensh wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Scale is important to note within that context though. Dinobot is virtually twice the size of Cheetor. Megatron looms over all in Season One. They were [not]* random price hikes plucked out of the ether (Not exactly Overpriced Prime), nor indicative of the future pricing of the SIGNIFICANTLY smaller figures that remain within the Season One cast.

Cheetor/Shadow Panther were £70, a logical assessment would include Blackarachnia around that sum.

*EDIT


Dinobot and Megatron are both smaller than MP Ultra Magnus, yet Dinobot was twice that price, Megatron even more. There is no justification for it other than Takara has figured out that most of us nerds do not make smart financial decisions when it comes to our plastic crack.

You all enjoy this, I hope, but as it stands now, Hound will be my final official MP purchase.


Ha! You say that like you know Hound's price. What if it's $200 ?

Anyways, about the magnus comparison I dont really get it. Magnus is bigger than most bots, sure, but he was rather basic with very limited articulation. There wasn't much parts count to him especially when compared to Dinobot. Plastic aint too expensive compared to the molds. More parts means making more molds. Hence why the original MP Bee cost more than Classics Bee even though they are the same size.

Also, people spoke of nipples, but I dont see any on Blackarachnia. Transformers dont wear clothes, there are no hidden areolas underneath her breastplate so she has no nipples in the conventional sense.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:15 pm

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So to clarify, as we are only talking about Masterpieces and not Lesser lines. 2018 saw three BW releases: Dinobot £180, Shadow Panther £70 and a Reissue of Cheetor at £70. The latter two being the exact same price as Cheetor from 2017. Yes, the price I made my estimate based on was from less than six months ago.

As an aside, Optimus Primal and his redeco came in at £100 - £130 in 2016.

So for people to presume Blackarachnia, who will naturally have far less detailing than Cheetor and less plastic than Primal or Dinobot (by default, due to her size) will cost the same as the latter two would seem to me to suggest someone at Takara is on some pretty strong drugs.

That HasTak would charge the same amount for Blackarachnia as a Prime (technically), especially within the Japanese Market that values heroic characters over all others, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Ironhidensh » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:32 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Ha! You say that like you know Hound's price. What if it's $200 ?




Oh, I fully expect to pay the same price as Sunstreaker, at the very least. Maybe as much as $150. Far more than what it's worth, but I've wanted a MP Hound fordoubling, and the 3rd Party options dont cut it for me.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby william-james88 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:37 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So for people to presume Blackarachnia, who will naturally have far less detailing than Cheetor and less plastic than Primal or Dinobot (by default, due to her size) will cost the same as the latter two would seem to me to suggest someone at Takara is on some pretty strong drugs.


Why arent you considering Parts Count? We know for a fact that that's the factor which affects the price most (Takara confirmed it in the Hasui Interview back when he was making Unite Warrior Devastator). If Blackarachnia has less parts than cheetor and Primal, then sure her being as expensive would be nonsense, but we dont know that yet.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Hellscream9999 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:44 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So for people to presume Blackarachnia, who will naturally have far less detailing than Cheetor and less plastic than Primal or Dinobot (by default, due to her size) will cost the same as the latter two would seem to me to suggest someone at Takara is on some pretty strong drugs.


Why arent you considering Parts Count? We know for a fact that that's the factor which affects the price most (Takara confirmed it in the Hasui Interview back when he was making Unite Warrior Devastator). If Blackarachnia has less parts than cheetor and Primal, then sure her being as expensive would be nonsense, but we dont know that yet.

Yeah, I've been saying this since dinobot was revealed, he was made of hundreds of tiny panels, most of which were painted on both sides. Plus most - if not all - of them were pinned together, that's a lot of -assembly time, which is way more cost; megs, is a little different, less panel-centric and more just f-ing massive (remember his beast head is roughly the size of mp primal)

Plus, if I recall correctly, despite his high amount of paint/decals, I don't remember there being many - if any - complaints about wide scale scratching/chipping on mp dinobot, which leads me to believe that TT may have changed to a different method of applying color, like tampographing everything on and that may have had something to do with the price :-?
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:48 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So for people to presume Blackarachnia, who will naturally have far less detailing than Cheetor and less plastic than Primal or Dinobot (by default, due to her size) will cost the same as the latter two would seem to me to suggest someone at Takara is on some pretty strong drugs.


Why arent you considering Parts Count? We know for a fact that that's the factor which affects the price most (Takara confirmed it in the Hasui Interview back when he was making Unite Warrior Devastator). If Blackarachnia has less parts than cheetor and Primal, then sure her being as expensive would be nonsense, but we dont know that yet.



Exactly. We don't know anything yet, beyond an unpainted prototype.
But she isn't exactly a deluxe or voyager size figure. Nor is her Beast Mode something previously "impossible" that they had to get creative with ala Dinobot. That is a certainty based on her model and the show accuracy they are going for.
Other than her spider legs, her general parts count should roughly mirror Cheetor. Both being quite basic Bot to Beast shifts.
Less than Primal, given the multiple built-in weapons, panels and electronics he has. Far less than Dinobot or Megatron.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:24 pm

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I just know that I’m getting this toy when it releases, prices be damned. The more Beast Wars stuff we buy, the more we cans show Geewun John Warden that not everything has to be G1 with knees.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:43 pm

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Nemesis Maximo wrote:I just know that I’m getting this toy when it releases, prices be damned. The more Beast Wars stuff we buy, the more we cans show Geewun John Warden that not everything has to be G1 with knees.



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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:26 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Nemesis Maximo wrote:I just know that I’m getting this toy when it releases, prices be damned. The more Beast Wars stuff we buy, the more we cans show Geewun John Warden that not everything has to be G1 with knees.



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You two have my rotate-blade!

Anyway, I so want this. SO much better than that mess of an MP-45 it isn't even funny. :MAXIMAL:
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby william-james88 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:41 pm

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More pics, showing scale:

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Hellscream9999 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:15 pm

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Megatron is a UNIT :shock:

Seriously, blackarachnia's torso is about the size of his thighs
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby william-james88 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:40 pm

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Hellscream9999 wrote:Megatron is a UNIT :shock:

Seriously, blackarachnia's torso is about the size of his thighs

I dont know what unit means in this new sense.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Hellscream9999 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:46 pm

Motto: "Never forgive, never forget."
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william-james88 wrote:
Hellscream9999 wrote:Megatron is a UNIT :shock:

Seriously, blackarachnia's torso is about the size of his thighs

I dont know what unit means in this new sense.

As far as I've heard it used, it seems to approximate to really, really big/imposing :???:
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby GeekyGamer Gal » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:20 pm

william-james88 wrote:More pics, showing scale:

Image

Image

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Sorry have to go here, but...

DAMN!! It must be frigid in that convention hall 'cause girl I know you had some perky cans in the cartoon, but they were never THAT perky. :oops:
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:36 pm

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Hellscream9999 wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Hellscream9999 wrote:Megatron is a UNIT :shock:

Seriously, blackarachnia's torso is about the size of his thighs

I dont know what unit means in this new sense.

As far as I've heard it used, it seems to approximate to really, really big/imposing :???:

I think it’s British in origin. I’m not super clear on when it entered vernacular myself. It’s times like these I miss Va’al. Some other board member from the UK, help us out here!
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:54 pm

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Nemesis Maximo wrote:
Hellscream9999 wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Hellscream9999 wrote:Megatron is a UNIT :shock:

Seriously, blackarachnia's torso is about the size of his thighs

I dont know what unit means in this new sense.

As far as I've heard it used, it seems to approximate to really, really big/imposing :???:

I think it’s British in origin. I’m not super clear on when it entered vernacular myself. It’s times like these I miss Va’al. Some other board member from the UK, help us out here!
All I know is that, as soon as all these new images of Jetfire dropped this weekend, a ton of people started using it to describe that new Jetfire.

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Emerje » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:39 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
SpikeyTigertron wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote::shock: That's probably the first time I've ever heard that...


I imagine if these are released by popularity, Airazor and Scorponok will probably be the last two.


Well.... she was my favorite basic figure and her role with Tigertron was important.


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

That would be another first....

Image

They are probably only "important" by this stage ^

I don't understand your surprise. Are you trying to imply that she wasn't a popular or well known character? She made regular appearances in the cartoon, had multiple figures during Beast Wars plus some repaints afterward including two Transformers Club exclusives, appeared several times outside of Beast Wars continuity through TFC, IDW, and Legends, and probably most importantly the Japanese fans seem to really like her (once they decided she actually is a "her"). I would place her chances above two dimensional characters like Scorponok or Inferno easily.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:I just know that I’m getting this toy when it releases, prices be damned. The more Beast Wars stuff we buy, the more we cans show Geewun John Warden that not everything has to be G1 with knees.

Well, if you're serious about the price then I hope you're prepared about putting your money where your mouth is because they only way you're going to send a message to Hasbro is by buying their overpriced releases, not importing.

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:55 pm

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Emerje wrote:I don't understand your surprise. Are you trying to imply that she wasn't a popular or well known character?
That's exactly what he's saying. Airazor was the least popular Maximal of the show's cast. Not because of any dislike people had for her (which most didn't/don't have towards her), but because the show didn't really do anything with her. She was always treated less like a main character and more like a guest star when compared to the rest of her teammates, and never once got a focal episode of her own (her debut episode gave more spotlight attention to Rhinox, Cheetor, Terrorsaur, and Blackarachnia, with the episode treating her less as a person and more as a plot device since she spent most of it as a dying protoform). The most that the show ever really acknowledged about her was that she was a flyer and that she was "the girl" Maximal, but even then, she got a significantly less amount of focus compared to her Predacon counterpart Blackarachnia, even in just Season 1 alone. Granted, Blackarachnia did debut earlier than Airazor, but it took a few episodes for BA to come into her own as a character since her first few appearances were similarly unceremonious towards her, but once the show found its footing for Blackarachnia in the first season, she was able to shine properly while Airazor never really got to have that same treatment. Airazor was just kinda there to be another flyer, to give the Maximals some female representation, and that was pretty much it for Airazor.

Emerje wrote:and probably most importantly the Japanese fans seem to really like her (once they decided she actually is a "her").
Which was only in the Metals manga. She was still male in the show, and made into a crossdressing male office lady in the Legends manga.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby King Kuuga » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:58 pm

Motto: "Yesssssssss....."
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Of all the characters I expected to be the next BW MP figure, Blackarachnia was not one of them.

But I like what I see. I'm impressed at how she hides her spider bits.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:50 am

Man... I'd forgotten just how BIG Megatron was going to be... and I already feel Ultra Magnus was too big... I think he's gonna hold the new record.

Also I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised how big BA's footprint will be in spider form.

I never did understand the attachment to Inferno... he felt like just one more "bumbling idiot" for the Preds and they already had quite a few.... I guess he was the most dangerous idiot though.

I don't recall ever being fondly attached to Terroraur either. though I think I blame Waspinator for hamming it up. I really would have expected him after Megs tbh.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:52 am

Did she or Tarantulus ever use their "toy" guns? I know Cheetors gutt riffle ended up being the "standard default back up gun".

I just honestly don't remember either spider blasting much.

Would be cool if they somehow keep her toy spindle effect and could hang from the stand.
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