The Energon Pub

xyl360 wrote:I'm still wondering where this confirmation that TFC is making a Predaking came from.

TFC Ares Thread

xyl360 wrote:Also, while it may be bad form of TFC (or someone from TFC) to tell someone from MMC that they won't be doing a Predaking, it's fair competition for them to make one.

Indeed. However, this sounds like a friendly relationship between aspects of MMC and TFC that may have gone sour. TFC has every right to make their own versions of these characters. What's slimy is the lying, if it is indeed true. I personally have little patience for such things. Tell me to my face that you are going to do something, then go behind my back and do something else? While perhaps a shrewd business move, it can have longer term consequences. I love Herc, but based on this story, the likelihood of my purchasing any TFC products shrank greatly.

Ethics in business is a serious problem. Outright lying, even if not in a legal sense, is still indicative of an attitude that is problematic. I don't like it, and I will have trouble supporting a company who does it willingly.

[Edit] Changed an absolute in the last paragraph to leave open the possibility of supporting a company that admits error and works toward improving the ethical environment.

On the flipside, if TFC had been straight up, we wouldn't have these guys. Food for thought. Also, Griffith himself says he would still happily buy any TFC offerings if he thinks they look good. No need to boycott TFC over a logical business move. Especially considering that we benefitted from it.

That Bot wrote:On the flipside, if TFC had been straight up, we wouldn't have these guys. Food for thought. Also, Griffith himself says he would still happily buy any TFC offerings if he thinks they look good. No need to boycott TFC over a logical business move. Especially considering that we benefitted from it.

See, that's why I am troubled. Bad ethics is being associated with logical business move. Because we benefit, then it's okay?

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just making an observation that I am afraid is far more common in the business world than we like. I'm not saying that TFC is going to turn into Enron. But, little things like this is how events like Enron start.

I realise my post was long, but it did touch on the idea that the third parties actively competing against each other in such a way might not be good for us in the long run.

Agamemnon wrote:Indeed. However, this sounds like a friendly relationship between aspects of MMC and TFC that may have gone sour.

I don't think they've ever liked each other. MMC/MakeToys/HR are a group, the rest are out for blood. Probably TFC trying to payback the alliance when MT decided to make Giant during TFC Hercs.

I think it's bad form for them to lie about it if they're on friendly terms. But that won't stop me from buying something from TFC if I want to.

It all boils down to the fact that I hate to hear it when one person is a jerk to someone else. Even if it's not really morally wrong and even if I ultimately benefit from it. It's the kind of thing I don't like hearing about.

We should remember before we get too annoyed about tfc's conduct that what all these 3rd parties are doing is morally dubious, to say the least. That said, it makes a lot more sense that these guys seem to making their gestalts to scale reasonably with each other, if there is indeed an alliance, and also explains why tfc are doing things on their own scale. Tfc shoud hook up with toyworld, who have also gone slightly bigger with the throttlebots/hegemon.

Personally I have never been interested in any TFC figures because I don't like how any of them look so I will stick with the far superior design skills of of FP/MT/MMC.

Blurrz wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:Indeed. However, this sounds like a friendly relationship between aspects of MMC and TFC that may have gone sour.

I don't think they've ever liked each other. MMC/MakeToys/HR are a group, the rest are out for blood. Probably TFC trying to payback the alliance when MT decided to make Giant during TFC Hercs.

I was going off of the quote diamchoc posted at the end of page 42:

And to make matters worse, the people making lionbot were trusted "friends" who just a year ago told my boss "Ah.. no problem buddy, you guys just go ahead! We're definitely not planning any beastiality cobiners!" So everything seemed rosy until life and reality decides to slap you on both cheeks and wake you up to the harsh reality of murphy's law.

This is what bothers me. The rest of the competition points, lower prices, higher quality, choice in style, those are all great! It's when intentionally deceptive business practices are involved (i.e. lying) that I get bothered.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It all boils down to the fact that I hate to hear it when one person is a jerk to someone else. Even if it's not really morally wrong and even if I ultimately benefit from it. It's the kind of thing I don't like hearing about.

Yes, exactly! And I'm also bothered that this is seen as okay in the business world too often.

Okay, off of my soapbox.

Agamemnon wrote:

xyl360 wrote:I'm still wondering where this confirmation that TFC is making a Predaking came from.

TFC Ares Thread

xyl360 wrote:Also, while it may be bad form of TFC (or someone from TFC) to tell someone from MMC that they won't be doing a Predaking, it's fair competition for them to make one.

Indeed. However, this sounds like a friendly relationship between aspects of MMC and TFC that may have gone sour. TFC has every right to make their own versions of these characters. What's slimy is the lying, if it is indeed true. I personally have little patience for such things. Tell me to my face that you are going to do something, then go behind my back and do something else? While perhaps a shrewd business move, it can have longer term consequences. I love Herc, but based on this story, the likelihood of my purchasing any TFC products shrank greatly.

Ethics in business is a serious problem. Outright lying, even if not in a legal sense, is still indicative of an attitude that is problematic. I don't like it, and I will have trouble supporting a company who does it willingly.

[Edit] Changed an absolute in the last paragraph to leave open the possibility of supporting a company that admits error and works toward improving the ethical environment.

Where in that thread (or image) does TFC confirm that it is indeed Predaking? I don't recall them ever clarifying what that project is and I never did believe it was Predaking (and still don't). I think it's either the Technobots, the Seacons or the Terrorcons.

As for ethics etc., I agree, if it's true, it's slimy/not nice.

xyl360 wrote:Where in that thread (or image) does TFC confirm that it is indeed Predaking? I don't recall them ever clarifying what that project is and I never did believe it was Predaking (and still don't). I think it's either the Technobots, the Seacons or the Terrorcons.

As for ethics etc., I agree, if it's true, it's slimy/not nice.

This image pretty much confirms it:



From this page of that thread.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/tfc-ares-t93172s40.php
Also, I think there may have been more discussion in this thread or perhaps the Unique Toys thread. Perhaps diamchoc can confirm with his contacts.

(I know I read somewhere, someone wrote that Ares is the Predacons. Additionally, with the comments from MMC earlier in this thread, I don't know why there would be skepticism.)

Agamemnon wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Where in that thread (or image) does TFC confirm that it is indeed Predaking? I don't recall them ever clarifying what that project is and I never did believe it was Predaking (and still don't). I think it's either the Technobots, the Seacons or the Terrorcons.

As for ethics etc., I agree, if it's true, it's slimy/not nice.

This image pretty much confirms it:



From this page of that thread.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/tfc-ares-t93172s40.php
Also, I think there may have been more discussion in this thread or perhaps the Unique Toys thread. Perhaps diamchoc can confirm with his contacts.

(I know I read somewhere, someone wrote that Ares is the Predacons. Additionally, with the comments from MMC earlier in this thread, I don't know why there would be skepticism.)

I still don't see Predaking/the Predacons in all that. Not at all, but maybe I'm missing something.

xyl360 wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Where in that thread (or image) does TFC confirm that it is indeed Predaking? I don't recall them ever clarifying what that project is and I never did believe it was Predaking (and still don't). I think it's either the Technobots, the Seacons or the Terrorcons.

As for ethics etc., I agree, if it's true, it's slimy/not nice.

This image pretty much confirms it:



From this page of that thread.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/tfc-ares-t93172s40.php
Also, I think there may have been more discussion in this thread or perhaps the Unique Toys thread. Perhaps diamchoc can confirm with his contacts.

(I know I read somewhere, someone wrote that Ares is the Predacons. Additionally, with the comments from MMC earlier in this thread, I don't know why there would be skepticism.)

I still don't see Predaking/the Predacons in all that. Not at all, but maybe I'm missing something.

The 2nd one from the right looks more like Sixshot than Rampage.

The talker over at tfw, while initially not naming names, has basically confirmed himself that TFC is making Predaking. Although I'm not sure how he would know this.

Well, isn't TFC already famous at doing such thing? The release of Photron feels like a good example.

paul053 wrote:Well, isn't TFC already famous at doing such thing? The release of Photron feels like a good example.

If the 3rd party companies expected no competition in their offers, then they were living in a fools world. This business model (3rd party figs in general) appears to be profitable, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Where there's priofit, there will be people competing for a piece of the pie. In the end, the companies find more efficient production methods, better strategies and and cheaper prices; all of which are passed on to the fans.

And then they'll streamline too much, cut too much in the name of faster production, and then we'll start talking about the "good old days" of the hobby.

Mkall wrote:

paul053 wrote:And then they'll streamline too much, cut too much in the name of faster production, and then we'll start talking about the "good old days" of the hobby.

That's where fourth party companies come in !

Really though, if TFC's take on Predaking (assuming that IS actually what they're doing as I'm still not completely convinced) is different enough from MMC and UT, then I'm sure there will be at least a small market for them.

It's just like Photron which someone mentioned earlier in this thread. That thing is SOOOOOO completely different (and far superior IMO, and I have both PE's and TFC's) that it found a home with many consumers. If they somehow do that with the Predacons, then I'm sure they'll still do OK and it probably won't be much competition for MMC because those collectors buying TFC's version would likely not have bought MMC's to begin with due to personal tastes and style preferences. Either that, or it will be so wildly different that some collectors will buy both.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess. So far everything TFC's done has pretty much been a home run (though I do wish QC/plastic quality were better, though that's been improving with every release as well).

I think we're talking about two completely different things here. I never meant to imply that TFC shouldn't make their Predacons. Absolutely, I am all for the benefits we see from good competition in the marketplace.

I am greatly disappointed at unethical business practices, which if what the MMC guys said is true, was what TFC did. I do not like the lying.

Two separate and very different issues here.

Regarding TFC's Ares, Venksta mentioned way back that TFC was working on a Predaking. Scaleface, asked on TFC's weibo site, and they answered back with "you guessed it" (translated). Recently, Byrin from TFW also has this:

[QUOTE=Byrin;9403838]Tfc was corresponding on weibo in chinese
??????

All the chinese posters were already refering to it as predaking, (using predaking's chinese name). Its as if they know something about it which was previously posted. Tfc themselves did not come out , in the abovementioned thread, to agree specifically that its predaking. Im still hoping for them to pull a fast one and declare it as abominus, using the predaking scam to have a go at mmc. But thats just my conspiracy wishful thinking.

[/quote]

daimchoc wrote:Regarding TFC's Ares, Venksta mentioned way back that TFC was working on a Predaking. Scaleface, asked on TFC's weibo site, and they answered back with "you guessed it" (translated). Recently, Byrin from TFW also has this:

Funny, we knew about the TFC one for awhile. The UT predaking was a surprise.

Hmmm. I guess the answer is to stay out of the political wranglings between these guys and let their 'bots do the talking. Personally I've been waiting for MMC to create a non-HOS homage (nice as they are) for a long old time and I'm still convinced that their Predaking will be superior.

Banjo-Tron wrote:Hmmm. I guess the answer is to stay out of the political wranglings between these guys and let their 'bots do the talking. Personally I've been waiting for MMC to create a non-HOS homage (nice as they are) for a long old time and I'm still convinced that their Predaking will be superior.

That's the position I take as well.

I'll buy the bots I like best, and leave the rest.

If you get into the "he said, she said" game you need to track and follow every internet rumor about these guys (or just blindly believe everything).

I loved that quote daimchoc posted at the end of page 42. That sort of openness really impresses me, and is something I wish we got a lot more from more companies.

I'm sorry to say Unique Toys simply aren't on my radar. As far as MMC .vs. TFC goes, I think I'm backing MMC. I've heard consistently good things about them, while TFC definitely have their problems. They do try to correct them, but my general feeling is that they're pretty good and have a bit of luck in the mix.

Also, I'm going to play devil's advocate and point out that maybe, just maybe, the MMC person could be spinning some lies about TFC. Not saying they are, but we are getting only one side of the story.

daimchoc wrote:

Nice! Hopefully we'll start seeing these released soon!

daimchoc wrote:

This alone makes this set a winner. Love how sleek the lion mode looks!