The Energon Pub

Razorbeast88 wrote:Agreed! Where else would we vent about our frustrations if not in a discussion thread with the only other people that would feel our pain?

alt.toys.transformers?

Sabrblade wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:Agreed! Where else would we vent about our frustrations if not in a discussion thread with the only other people that would feel our pain?

alt.toys.transformers?

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure what that is hahaha

Razorbeast88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:Agreed! Where else would we vent about our frustrations if not in a discussion thread with the only other people that would feel our pain?

alt.toys.transformers?

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure what that is hahaha

It was the place for the online fandom to talk all things Transformers in the 1990s and early 2000s before all the big message board forums, Wikis, and social media came into being. More info here.

And, remarkably, it still exists to this day as a Google Group.

Sabrblade wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:Agreed! Where else would we vent about our frustrations if not in a discussion thread with the only other people that would feel our pain?

alt.toys.transformers?

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure what that is hahaha

It was the place for the online fandom to talk all things Transformers in the 1990s and early 2000s before all the big message board forums, Wikis, and social media came into being. More info here.

And, remarkably, it still exists to this day as a Google Group.

Just finished reading the article, I appreciate the info! Knowing is half the battle!

I kept telling myself that Netflix Bumblebee wasn't worth the price. I ran into it right before Christmas at Walmart. It was too small for a Deluxe and the cannon didn't make up for it. I watched reviews and thought it looked cool, but it still wasn't enough for me. Then I got ER Optimus Prime and thought "I need someone to go in his trailer." I figured might as well get Bee, but the shelves were barren. I watched as forums and message boards bemoaned the horrible distribution and insane scalper prices. I resigned myself to accept that I had missed my opportunity... Then I found him again. He really is amazing. I still think he's a little overpriced, but I'm happy nonetheless.

You say he's overpriced, yet in your photos you added to the value with your play patterns that I've seen no one else emulate. I LOVE the drone cannon version (and that's a Fusion Cannon sized blast he's putting out in the one photo LOL).

I'm not an engineer, but I am an engineering fan. I think they make up for his size with the engineering to make him/Cliff/Hubcap/Bugbite 'worth' the deluxe price tag. Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Other figures in this category are Masterpiece Megatron Inferno and Sunstreaker, as well as some of the Beast Wars Masterpiece figures. Engineering like that make it a lot more visible as to where the money goes.

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

blackeyedprime wrote:

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

Its only a lie if you base the size classes on height, which Hasbro stopped doing a while ago

ZeroWolf wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

Its only a lie if you base the size classes on height, which Hasbro stopped doing a while ago

My goalpost is engineering and complexity of play. He's actually BETTER than most deluxes by that standard.

sol magnus wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

Its only a lie if you base the size classes on height, which Hasbro stopped doing a while ago

My goalpost is engineering and complexity of play. He's actually BETTER than most deluxes by that standard.

I agree I'd rather have smaller figures if more is being put into them. I mean huffer looks to be the same, but at the same time, looks fantastic.

sol magnus wrote:My goalpost is engineering and complexity of play. He's actually BETTER than most deluxes by that standard.

Same.

If all I cared about was the amount of plastic then I'd buy those Super7 figures. I mean, seriously, look at Netflix Bee then that ReAction Bee and tell me there ain't more than two dollars worth of engineering difference between the two. If a person likes statues, more power to them. But if I feel anything is a rip-off in the Transformer toy land it's those figures.

ZeroWolf wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

Its only a lie if you base the size classes on height, which Hasbro stopped doing a while ago

Only if you accept figures with reduced staturea at increased prices as being the same thing

As for engineering its hard to jusge on with TR kup/orion pax having masterpeice engineered legs to Earthrise primes legs almost a tiny turbo changers engineering. Deluxe RTS/Classics Bee had way more engineering and height over netflix bee.

blackeyedprime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:

sol magnus wrote: Calling him a "Legends" class (to me) is insulting.

Calling him a deluxe is a lie though...maybe a new class called Delegended?

Its only a lie if you base the size classes on height, which Hasbro stopped doing a while ago

Only if you accept figures with reduced staturea at increased prices as being the same thing

As for engineering its hard to jusge on with TR kup/orion pax having masterpeice engineered legs to Earthrise primes legs almost a tiny turbo changers engineering. Deluxe RTS/Classics Bee had way more engineering and height over netflix bee.

Even if we accept that (and maybe you're right, I dunno), Bumblebee/Cliff/Hubcap/Bugbite are the size they are on purpose. It's a consistency of scale thing, which I'm sure I don't need to explain to you.

He isn't bigger on purpose, and thus, fits the bill of what he's supposed to be along with engineering outstripping other deluxes in the line.

Bees never been good at pretending to be a deluxe... XD

A selects figure of Bluestreak with Bees head might be doable

Split the difference between Deluxe and Legends and consider Bee a Scout class/Basic class.

Sabrblade wrote:Split the difference between Deluxe and Legends and consider Bee a Scout class/Basic class.

That would have been the perfect fit for me

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but objectively, on the outside looking in, I'd like to see comparisons of TR Legends BB and Netflix BB. I'm "guessing" they are around the same size. Objectively, I'll say Netflix BB is the overall better toy, but is it worth Double the Price? Is there really 2X detail, 2X engineering etc... all that going on between the TR and Netflix BB's (I'm honestly asking as I think it would be a good barometer for justification).

o.supreme wrote:I don't really have a dog in this fight, but objectively, on the outside looking in, I'd like to see comparisons of TR Legends BB and Netflix BB. I'm "guessing" they are around the same size. Objectively, I'll say Netflix BB is the overall better toy, but is it worth Double the Price? Is there really 2X detail, 2X engineering etc... all that going on between the TR and Netflix BB's (I'm honestly asking as I think it would be a good barometer for justification).

Personally, without a doubt. The transformation is definitely more complex and the Netflix Bee is an actual VW Beetle. Seeing that logo when the feet come together while transforming into vehicle mode is sweet.

aronjlove wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I don't really have a dog in this fight, but objectively, on the outside looking in, I'd like to see comparisons of TR Legends BB and Netflix BB. I'm "guessing" they are around the same size. Objectively, I'll say Netflix BB is the overall better toy, but is it worth Double the Price? Is there really 2X detail, 2X engineering etc... all that going on between the TR and Netflix BB's (I'm honestly asking as I think it would be a good barometer for justification).

Personally, without a doubt. The transformation is definitely more complex and the Netflix Bee is an actual VW Beetle. Seeing that logo when the feet come together while transforming into vehicle mode is sweet.

While we can argue anything, it's not really arguable. VW official aside, because I attribute the superiority to the entirety of the shared engineering (IE Cliffjumper), they aren't any less 'worth it' than Bee.

The Legends BB is complete crap compared to Netflix. I might get that Bumblebee if it was the only one available, but exxing Netflix out of reality for the comparison I'd want more from a Bumblebee. I'd have to go back to 2006 for that.

o.supreme wrote:I don't really have a dog in this fight, but objectively, on the outside looking in, I'd like to see comparisons of TR Legends BB and Netflix BB. I'm "guessing" they are around the same size. Objectively, I'll say Netflix BB is the overall better toy, but is it worth Double the Price? Is there really 2X detail, 2X engineering etc... all that going on between the TR and Netflix BB's (I'm honestly asking as I think it would be a good barometer for justification).

I've got TR Bee ready for eBay soon, so I just took a look at the 2 of them (sorry no time for photos).

Netflix bee is definitely bigger both in terms of mass and size. Mass, TR is 31 grams and Netflix is 48 grams (just Bee, without the gun). The Netflix Bee car mode is about 3/4 of an inch longer as well. In bot mode they are pretty comparable, with Netflix Bee just a tiny bit taller.

Where you really see the difference is in the quality of the design and the articulation. TR Bee has no waist swivel, no ankle tilts, no wrist swivel, simple ball joints for the hips, elbows and shoulders, and a pin joint for the knees.

Netflix Bee by comparison has waist swivel, wrist swivel, ankle tilts, thigh swivels, and multiple pin and rotating joints instead of the ball joints for the arms and hips. Even just looking at a single leg from the hip down; TR Bee has 5 pieces of plastic that make up each leg (thigh, calf, foot, wheel and the little flap). Netflix bee has at least 9.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I've got TR Bee ready for eBay soon, so I just took a look at the 2 of them (sorry no time for photos).

Netflix bee is definitely bigger both in terms of mass and size. Mass, TR is 31 grams and Netflix is 48 grams (just Bee, without the gun). The Netflix Bee car mode is about 3/4 of an inch longer as well. In bot mode they are pretty comparable, with Netflix Bee just a tiny bit taller.

Where you really see the difference is in the quality of the design and the articulation. TR Bee has no waist swivel, no ankle tilts, no wrist swivel, simple ball joints for the hips, elbows and shoulders, and a pin joint for the knees.

Netflix Bee by comparison has waist swivel, wrist swivel, ankle tilts, thigh swivels, and multiple pin and rotating joints instead of the ball joints for the arms and hips. Even just looking at a single leg from the hip down; TR Bee has 5 pieces of plastic that make up each leg (thigh, calf, foot, wheel and the little flap). Netflix bee has at least 9.

Perfect, I love all the details you shared, that should help fans quite a bit. Thank you.

Netflix Bee turning into a vw bug is the highlight of the figure, it does have more engineering over tr bee in general.

TR Bees ball joints are partly the reason (and results in his arms looking awkward) but tr bee dies have some better engineering in parts. Not only from the gimmick of a titan master driver having to be incorporated but it's chest has the accordian folding parts of Vehicon and kingdoms cyclonus for his chest area. Boat feet are still present on both the figures. Obviously no parts forming either which is upto the handler if that's better engineering or not.

Compared to classics deluxe with its folding seats, jet pack/trailer I'd say classics is the better over the two of them but it isn't a beetle. If tr bee had a wheel on his back and his arms had a few more transformations it would have been a lot better than it is, but £8 to £20 not seeing that difference.

o.supreme wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I've got TR Bee ready for eBay soon, so I just took a look at the 2 of them (sorry no time for photos).

Netflix bee is definitely bigger both in terms of mass and size. Mass, TR is 31 grams and Netflix is 48 grams (just Bee, without the gun). The Netflix Bee car mode is about 3/4 of an inch longer as well. In bot mode they are pretty comparable, with Netflix Bee just a tiny bit taller.

Where you really see the difference is in the quality of the design and the articulation. TR Bee has no waist swivel, no ankle tilts, no wrist swivel, simple ball joints for the hips, elbows and shoulders, and a pin joint for the knees.

Netflix Bee by comparison has waist swivel, wrist swivel, ankle tilts, thigh swivels, and multiple pin and rotating joints instead of the ball joints for the arms and hips. Even just looking at a single leg from the hip down; TR Bee has 5 pieces of plastic that make up each leg (thigh, calf, foot, wheel and the little flap). Netflix bee has at least 9.

Perfect, I love all the details you shared, that should help fans quite a bit. Thank you.

It actually surprised me a bit when I looked at all the articulation details and number of parts to make up the better joints. I feel that is one aspect many fans (I know I've done it myself) overlook when trying to judge the price points and the complexity of engineering. Just going from ball shoulder joint to a set of pin and rotating joints pushes just 1 joint from 2 pieces to 4-6 pieces once you add in the metal pins.

blackeyedprime wrote:Netflix Bee turning into a vw bug is the highlight of the figure, it does have more engineering over tr bee in general.

TR Bees ball joints are partly the reason (and results in his arms looking awkward) but tr bee dies have some better engineering in parts. Not only from the gimmick of a titan master driver having to be incorporated but it's chest has the accordian folding parts of Vehicon and kingdoms cyclonus for his chest area. Boat feet are still present on both the figures. Obviously no parts forming either which is upto the handler if that's better engineering or not.

Compared to classics deluxe with its folding seats, jet pack/trailer I'd say classics is the better over the two of them but it isn't a beetle. If tr bee had a wheel on his back and his arms had a few more transformations it would have been a lot better than it is, but £8 to £20 not seeing that difference.

I have TR Bee (still sealed), and even when holding him up to Cliffjumper, I couldn't quite tell that they're THAT close in height; I obviously could see they're close, but seeing this photo it was still a little surprising...
Don't get me wrong, I still hope to find Netflix Bee. If not, I'll be real tempted to open my Classics Bee which is also still sealed!

My Netflix Bee lives in vehicle mode where as my Tak Legends Bee gets displayed in bot mode (him being just a little smaller than wfc cliff is my ideal, his chest and yellow paint give him the slightest of edges of him being on display in bot mode despite Netflix Bee probably being better in all.
Kinds glad for Netflix Bees orange tho with the way they did WFC Sunstreaker and it doesnt look off on him, probably makes TR Bee seem more cyberverse/RIDish than anything else when stood together.



I think I prefer studio series vw beetle mode more but wfc cars seem to have been thinned down compared to previous lines. Studio series is a small deluxe and is still considerably larger than netflix bee. If netflix was a bit more chibi then it might have been my fave vehicle wise. Best toy is probably classics but it wasn't trying to be accurate to anything and at end of the day netflix is the best choice for an updated g1 look (but tr has the wheels on his arms like the G1 toy... I'm so conflicted arrrgh).