The Energon Pub

Deadput wrote:Why does no one see how morally wrong that is in-universe?

Because it's fiction. And after 30+ years of the same Autobot/Optimus -vs- Decepticons/Megatron stories it's gotten repetitive. Why not something fresh?

Why are you so opposed to change in a franchise that is built solely around change?

Deadput wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:
There have been bad primes before. What difference does it honestly make if a prime was an autobot that went bad as opposed to just a decepticon?

NO NO NO NO NO

Read my other freaking posts before hand there is a major difference between a Prime who goes bad later after they have became one and a guy who was already a really evil person who did really evil things who is suddenly forgiven and becomes a Prime and the damn leader of their planet

and all of those Primes were fakes anyways it's acknowledged in story that they were not chosen by the matrix and were voted for by the corrupted senate.

No Decepticon will ever be a Good Prime because eventually they are to have to go back to being bad guys again like how Megatron is going to become evil again in IDW.

Zeta, Sentinel, Nova and the like were twisted before becoming Prime. Hell, the recent Titans Return crossover even explicitly says that becoming a Prime was part of Sentinel's whole gameplan. The only difference is that no-one knew what sort of people they were, and for years after their reign ended still didn't.

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:...but also Prime's have been shown in several cases to be just ranks in several universes, so he really could be "Shockwave Prime" and not have a matrix. the matrix didn't exist in animated.

And really, there are no guys on that list who couldn't be a Prime. they may be bad in some universes, but there exists a universe where they were all good at some point.

So really, anything is possible. And I'd find a Decepticon Prime cool. Would really offset things, like how Starscream has been running Cybertron in IDW and is making it work and has for years

But the only continuity this matters for is IDW in which a Prime is not a rank it's something your chosen for by the matrix because you fall into the requisites for being one!

In IDW theses guys are evil who have committed genocide and even if Megatron has given up that life he is still guilty and he can't be redeemed for starting the war which took so many and continues to take lives, Shockwave might have been brainwashed but he still did almost destroy the universe willingly and when his mind came back he was so horrified that he asked Prime and Megatron to destroy him, Thunderwing is an abomination and a monster in this universe so that speaks for itself, Deathasaurs is kind to his comrades but he is a Decpeticon so he has killed Autobots brutally most likely especially since he agreed with the DJD to slaughter the lost light crew and Megatron don't bring other universes into this their not relevant!


Starscream is not even a Prime here and most of the named cast on Cybertron don't even like him or want him in charge which is probably in story why we are getting a new Prime as leader of Cybertron

Kurona wrote:

MaverickPrime wrote:If the only choices are those in the poster, I'm Hound all the way, I like the character and I feel he needs a little spotlight FAR MORE than the others on the list.(even if Star Saber on HASBRO material is interesting by itself), besides, it would ve fresh, all others have had a leadership role before.
However, if there're more choices or we can suggest our own(which I doubt), I have to go with Jazz! he's the second in command in some continuities and he's one of the coolest characters in the whole mythos, and his presence carries respect and motivations for those under his command, I LOVED how in FoC, when Bruticus attacks the arc, everyone just runs and gives up, but as soon as Jazz arrives, they all recover their spirit just by seeing him joining the battle.
Others I feel also deserve Primehood are Ironhide and Springer, maybe even Kup.

Hound actually has had a leadership role before; in Furman-era IDW he commanded his own little group which included Sideswipe, Warpath, Skram and Road Rocket. And much later during Dark Cybertron while both Magnus and Rodimus were off doing other things, he assumed control of the Lost Light.

Oh, I didn't know that! still, I meant leadership on a grander scale, faction leadership(Star Saber, Megatron), like when Shockwave went full-badass and became leader of the Decepticons or "big bad" of an arc leadership, like Thunderwing was when he ALREADY had the Matrix.
Only Arcee and Hound could bring something truly new to leadership, and as Arcee has had quite a bit of exposure, I feel Hound should be the new Prime.

Kurona wrote:Zeta, Sentinel, Nova and the like were twisted before becoming Prime. Hell, the recent Titans Return crossover even explicitly says that becoming a Prime was part of Sentinel's whole gameplan. The only difference is that no-one knew what sort of people they were, and for years after their reign ended still didn't.

But they were not real Primes either they were not chosen by the Matrix the only legitimate named Primes in IDW so far is Optimus and Rodimus would kinda count if he was an actual Prime chosen by the MAtrix but he was just temporary holding on to the matrix here.

Deadput wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:...but also Prime's have been shown in several cases to be just ranks in several universes, so he really could be "Shockwave Prime" and not have a matrix. the matrix didn't exist in animated.

And really, there are no guys on that list who couldn't be a Prime. they may be bad in some universes, but there exists a universe where they were all good at some point.

So really, anything is possible. And I'd find a Decepticon Prime cool. Would really offset things, like how Starscream has been running Cybertron in IDW and is making it work and has for years

But the only continuity this matters for is IDW in which a Prime is not a rank it's something your chosen for by the matrix because you fall into the requisites for being one!

In IDW theses guys are evil who have committed genocide and even if Megatron has given up that life he is still guilty and he can't be redeemed for starting the war which took so many and continues to take lives, Shockwave might have been brainwashed but he still did almost destroy the universe willingly and when his mind came back he was so horrified that he asked Prime and Megatron to destroy him, Thunderwing is an abomination and a monster in this universe so that speaks for itself, Deathasaurs is kind to his comrades but he is a Decpeticon so he has killed Autobots brutally most likely especially since he agreed with the DJD to slaughter the lost light crew and Megatron don't bring other universes into this their not relevant!

For Deathsaurus specifically, the exact same could be said for most Autobots. Hot Rod and Orion Pax killed a ton of Decepticons during their time, as killers they're no different from the Decepticons. Meanwhile Deathsaurus specifically got his large crew together, stole a warship and tried to take them away from the main Decepticon forces for the exact reason of finding their methods too violent and too far removed from what they started out as and what they were formed to do. If anything I'd argue Deathsaurus makes a far better candidate and is far more noble and kind-hearted than the likes of Arcee and Hound.
And yeah, he joined up with the DJD to kill the Lost Light crew. Because it would take his crew off the list so that they wouldn't have to die.

I like the idea of a whole new faction.
War gets weird when there are three factions all fighting one another.
Think of the stories that could come out of that.

Cobotron wrote:I like the idea of a whole new faction.
War gets weird when there are three factions all fighting one another.
Think of the stories that could come out of that.

Cybertron Armageddon!

Cobotron wrote:I like the idea of a whole new faction.
War gets weird when there are three factions all fighting one another.
Think of the stories that could come out of that.

Technically that was kind of attempted in Dreamwave's War Within; both factions split into three for a total of six after Megatron and Optimus went missing in a space bridge accident. The main Autobot forces, the Wreckers, the Lightning Strike Coalition, the main Decepticon forces, the Predacons and the Ultracons. I never got to see how that turned out but it sounds pretty bizarre and I would like to see a similar idea revived. It would certainly bring something fresh to the relatively stale war setting.

Deadput wrote:No Decepticon will ever be a Good Prime because eventually they are to have to go back to being bad guys again like how Megatron is going to become evil again in IDW.

Um, no he isn't, but that is beside the point.

Good guys go bad, and bad guys can go good. Stop trying to tell everyone they are wrong for wanting a Decepticon Prime. No one here is right and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Autobot Megatron has proven very popular and is looking to stick, so why can't someone else?

And besides, it's fiction. you can ignore it if you really don't like it.

Kurona wrote:For Deathsaurus specifically, the exact same could be said for most Autobots. Hot Rod and Orion Pax killed a ton of Decepticons during their time, as killers they're no different from the Decepticons. Meanwhile Deathsaurus specifically got his large crew together, stole a warship and tried to take them away from the main Decepticon forces for the exact reason of finding their methods too violent and too far removed from what they started out as and what they were formed to do. If anything I'd argue Deathsaurus makes a far better candidate and is far more noble and kind-hearted than the likes of Arcee and Hound.
And yeah, he joined up with the DJD to kill the Lost Light crew. Because it would take his crew off the list so that they wouldn't have to die.

The Autobots would not be killers if it were not for the Decepticons actually trying to kill them which Deathasaurs were part of.


Do you see the twisted killer Autobots like the Wreckers or Prowl or the Dinobots on there?


Most of these Autobots on there have honor and morals Star Saber is prick in IDW though and he is an Autobot in the loosest sense of the word.

Deadput wrote:No Decepticon will ever be a Good Prime because eventually they are to have to go back to being bad guys again like how Megatron is going to become evil again in IDW.

Why would Megatron become evil again? He was on a very clear path when we last saw him.

Deadput wrote:
Why does no one see how morally wrong that is in-universe?

Getaway does.

But I see where you're coming from. I think a Decepticon Prime could be a very intriguing story, but I don't see how, with these options, and the events in the comics currently, there could be a storyline that would jibe with where the characters are at in their individual developments at the moment.

Deadput wrote:

Kurona wrote:For Deathsaurus specifically, the exact same could be said for most Autobots. Hot Rod and Orion Pax killed a ton of Decepticons during their time, as killers they're no different from the Decepticons. Meanwhile Deathsaurus specifically got his large crew together, stole a warship and tried to take them away from the main Decepticon forces for the exact reason of finding their methods too violent and too far removed from what they started out as and what they were formed to do. If anything I'd argue Deathsaurus makes a far better candidate and is far more noble and kind-hearted than the likes of Arcee and Hound.
And yeah, he joined up with the DJD to kill the Lost Light crew. Because it would take his crew off the list so that they wouldn't have to die.

The Autobots would not be killers if it were not for the Decepticons actually trying to kill them which Deathasaurs were part of.


Do you see the twisted killer Autobots like the Wreckers or Prowl or the Dinobots on there?


Most of these Autobots on there have honor and morals Star Saber is prick in IDW though and he is an Autobot in the loosest sense of the word.

Arcee's on there which is about as twisted and sick as an Autobot got.

Deathsaurus was born into the war, ie after it started. So I'm not sure I follow the logic you're presenting in that line as if he's to blame for the Autobots' violence? Hell, the Decepticons were partly started up in response to the Autobots' violence - the Autobots originally being Sentinel's lawkeeping faction which were far too violent and far too extreme.

All I'm saying is that Deathsaurus is very noble, very self-sacrificial and is pretty much a great guy all around. He's definitely not to be lumped in with the likes of Thunderwing and Shockwave.

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

Deadput wrote:No Decepticon will ever be a Good Prime because eventually they are to have to go back to being bad guys again like how Megatron is going to become evil again in IDW.

Um, no he isn't, but that is beside the point.

Good guys go bad, and bad guys can go good. Stop trying to tell everyone they are wrong for wanting a Decepticon Prime. No one here is right and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Autobot Megatron has proven very popular and is looking to stick, so why can't someone else?

And besides, it's fiction. you can ignore it if you really don't like it.

Starscream became a bad guy again in Energon after Armada because toys and status quo.


IT'S BECAUSE OF HASBRO AND THEIR TOYS THAT MEGATRON WILL BECOME EVIL AGAIN JUST LIKE HOW WE KNOW BUMBLEBEE IS GOING TO COME BACK MEGATRON WILL BE EVIL AGAIN WHETHER IT'S FROM A CLONE OR BRAINWASHING HE WILL BECOME THE DECEPTICON LEADER AGAIN AND WILL BE EVIL.


I can't ignore the damn fiction if it's the only good comic series to read or the only generations toy line to buy I can't ignore it I like Rid but for different reasons.


I can't ignore the flaws in a comic series I enjoy reading that "ignore it" statement is the stupidest **** I have heard here today.

All seriousness here:

Calm down please. This is a final warning.

No, THIS is a final warning.

Deadput, you've made your point clear. You need to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you, so PLEASE, stop ramming your damn opinion down our throats.

You vote for who you want, I'll vote for who I want. Then we both live with the repercussions.

Deadput wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

Deadput wrote:No Decepticon will ever be a Good Prime because eventually they are to have to go back to being bad guys again like how Megatron is going to become evil again in IDW.

Um, no he isn't, but that is beside the point.

Good guys go bad, and bad guys can go good. Stop trying to tell everyone they are wrong for wanting a Decepticon Prime. No one here is right and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Autobot Megatron has proven very popular and is looking to stick, so why can't someone else?

And besides, it's fiction. you can ignore it if you really don't like it.

Starscream became a bad guy again in Energon after Armada because toys and status quo.


IT'S BECAUSE OF HASBRO AND THEIR TOYS THAT MEGATRON WILL BECOME EVIL AGAIN JUST LIKE HOW WE KNOW BUMBLEBEE IS GOING TO COME BACK MEGATRON WILL BE EVIL AGAIN WHETHER IT'S FROM A CLONE OR BRAINWASHING HE WILL BECOME THE DECEPTICON LEADER AGAIN AND WILL BE EVIL.


I can't ignore the damn fiction if it's the only good comic series to read or the only generations toy line to buy I can't ignore it I like Rid but for different reasons.


I can't ignore the flaws in a comic series I enjoy reading that "ignore it" statement is the stupidest **** I have heard here today.

Dude... the Unicron Trilogy and IDW are two extremely different beasts. The pure purpose of the Unicron Trilogy was to sell toys. Plot came secondary and was worked around how best they could show off the toys, and Energon in particular was badly handled. Selling toys is more a secondary thing for IDW, and the toyline's effect on the fiction has notably decreased recently (compare everything that happened in Combiner Wars to Titans Return only featuring Sentinel Prime, Sovereign and the titan Fort Max purely being shown as a giant mech made from a dead Titan body that Fort Max piloted). In MTMTE especially the toys have so little effect it's practically negligible; the biggest thing that happened was First Aid getting taken off the crew.
I understand cynicism about predictability in Transformers due to toyline mandates, but IDW in particular has been very resistant to that and oftentimes used it to their advantage. Thrilling 30 just had toys come in as new characters that benefited the post-war setting in a way that doesn't even feel like it's advertising a product; the aforementioned Titans Return crossover was done in a way that tied into previous and current events (interviews even mentioning IDW working closely with Hasbro to ensure such a thing), and Combiner Wars, while messy, simply provided a big event in order to kickstart the Colony Worlds plot point.
To Sell Toys isn't quite as much in effect in IDW as it is elsewhere. At worst it's a little clumsy and cumbersome but has no terrible lasting effect on the story, and at best it's very intelligently integrated to the point of feeling like a natural part of the story and not feeling like product placement at all.

EDIT: God I'm sorry I just lost my mind there I'm sorry I have to take a break my day has not been great and I have been suffering in real life so when I come on this and other websites to get away from that I get upset enough to be in tears when I just go back and argue with people like i do in real life.


I just don't see why an evil character should become the next Prime this is a really big deal that will forever be associated with the character and out of everyone I feel like Hound would be the least affected negatively by being a Prime.

You know, I did try to steer this ship away from the rocks.

I think they're going to leave IDW alone for a bit, like 2012 - late 2013 level. Those creators have done a huge corporate favor with Revolution and deserve some time to play in that sandbox and start building a castle.

ScottyP wrote:You know, I did try to steer this ship away from the rocks.

I think they're going to leave IDW alone for a bit, like 2012 - late 2013 level. Those creators have done a huge corporate favor with Revolution and deserve some time to play in that sandbox and start building a castle.

It's Hasbro they have no sense of private space when it comes to this and other comic stuff these days unless it's with Bay.

Deadput wrote:It's Hasbro they have no sense of private space when it comes to this and other comic stuff these days unless it's with Bay.

Just in case you've forgotten already ...

Deadput wrote:I have to take a break

Deathsaurus as Cybertronian leader would be cool to see I think, but how would they integrate his current role into that? It would cause an upheaval in the events of the comics currently. It's not that I don't want to see a change, I want to see a change that makes sense in-story. I don't know much about Thunderwing, but I'm pretty sure it would have the same effect. And Shockwave's dead, so he's not even a realistically plausible contender, is he?

If they're going to completely retool the direction and patterns of the franchise, it shouldn't, in my opinion, be inapt. If the circumstances permitted, then it is possible that there could be a storyline for everyone of these 'bots that portrays a perfectly logical plot that follows there ascension to primehood, but for most of these characters, to be at that stage from where they are now, for a convincing story, should take longer than a year.

When Autobot Megaron was announced, didn't people have basically the same reactions they have now? And almost three years later everyone accepts it to the point that a Megaton Prime doesn't seem so absurd. If the choices coincided more with what we are seeing now, this event would be met with much more enthusiasm.

Good to see Rob Liefeld getting some work these days.

UltraPrimal wrote:Good to see Rob Liefeld getting some work these days.

How do you mean?

I am assuming this all affect and takes part in IDW in my choices:

Safe, easy, reassuring G1 childhood me says Hound would be the best fit. May be a boring story if its all just good guy status quo stuff, but hopefully, since he was with Getaway's group he is as not ok with Megatron being a "good guy" as I am, and would put a stop to forgiving everything he has done(but the ride to Megatron's re-thinking of himself has been awesome). Probably my Honour choice.

My Order choice, I suppose in my imagined IDW story, would be Star Saber. His religious zealotry would create his kind of order. Maybe Pharma will come along, Circle of Light stuff and he will put on end to "factions". Some people may consider that Chaos though. Like Obi-wan says; we find that many things in life come down to point of view.

Chaos, or maybe Order, again point of view choice would be Deathasarus. He is like lots of people have posted here a good leader, cares for his charges/troops and a loyal, to the original IDW Decepticon ideology, Decepticon leader. Leading Cybertron in that capacity would rub lots of poeple the wrong way and cause chaos.

Out of those my ultimate pick for IDW story reasons is Star Saber. As I understand this doesnt have to be a Prime that is divinely chosen as what is the ultimate, good, honourable choice of Primus. They can craft the story to fit and everything can go back to status quo, story and character wise in a couple months or years. I like fun, interesting Transformer stories and this could open plenty with lots of the choices.