The Energon Pub

I guess I'm not being clear enough. Why did they have to scan something in the environment and imitate it visually? Why did they have to scan anything at all? They could have simply wrapped their robot forms in organic material as protection; there's no need to imitate an animal.

(Then there's the question of how organic matter blocks radiation that would harm their metal bodies. I'm no physicist, but I'm pretty sure radiation doesn't work that way.)

I'm not asking why they had to protect themselves; I'm asking why they had to look like real animals.

GuyIncognito wrote:I guess I'm not being clear enough. Why did they have to scan something in the environment and imitate it visually? Why did they have to scan anything at all? They could have simply wrapped their robot forms in organic material as protection; there's no need to imitate an animal.

Because that's what Transformers do? They scan altforms to suit their needs, and so these guys scanned ones that were useful to them instead of dressing up like eskimos.

To put it into a real-world perspective, the show went the route of a boy's transforming action figure toyline instead of a girl's dress up dolly toyline.

GuyIncognito wrote:(Then there's the question of how organic matter blocks radiation that would harm their metal bodies. I'm no physicist, but I'm pretty sure radiation doesn't work that way.)

Over the past 30 years, it's kinda become a univerally-accepted law that the radiation given off by unstable energon has zero negative effects on organic lifeforms, be they humans, animals, etc., making them completely immune to its ill effects since organic life doesn't run on energon. Whereas Cybertronians are powered by the stuff, and so are susceptible to having the sudden power surges emitted from the unstable energon overloading and frying their systems to a critical point.

I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

GuyIncognito wrote:I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

You could say the same for every other altmode that's been had in the past 30 years.

Like, "Optimus Prime doesn't need to LOOK like a truck. He just needs four wheels to get around and not much else."

The look comes with the scan, as it always has with every altmode that's ever been scanned.

Why, RiD Scourge scanned a tanker truck and Optimus Prime's robot mode, and ended up looking like a tanker truck that turned into a robot mode that looked like Optimus Prime.

Sabrblade wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

You could say the same for every other altmode that's been had in the past 30 years.

Like, "Optimus Prime doesn't need to LOOK like a truck. He just needs four wheels to get around and not much else."

Optimus looks like a truck because he's a ROBOT IN DISGUISE. That's the whole point of this discussion! If the alt mode isn't a disguise, there's no reason for it to look like something in the environment.

GuyIncognito wrote:I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

Cartoon logic. That's all there is to it. Don't think too much about it, your head would simply explode.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

Cartoon logic. That's all there is to it. Don't think too much about it, your head would simply explode.

Exactly. Cartoon logic, invented to support toy logic. There's no other logical reason they would look like animals (other than disguise).

Midnight_Fox wrote:that whole disguise thing was tossed out the window in the very first episode of G1.

Yeah, there are so few instances where alt modes were used as an actual disguise I can't really fault a bot for not being able to hide while transformed.

I think Bay's movies of all places got into the spirit of "robots in disguise" better than the other series (case in point: Laserbeak), but even then they regularly featured a bunch of showroom concept sports cars driving down the road with a semi with custom flame paint, a Hummer-turned-ambulance, NASCARs with guns, and now an army truck.

GuyIncognito wrote:Optimus looks like a truck because he's a ROBOT IN DISGUISE.

He really isn't. It's only been recently(Bayverse, Prime, IDW, maybe Dreamwave? Never read those) that that's been the case. In pretty much EVERY OTHER SERIES, alt modes exist because Cybertronians have them. In G1 they didn't even CHOOSE to have Earth modes, Teletraan chose Earth modes for them when it repaired everyone. In fact, there's plenty of episodes where it's very clear alt modes are really only used to get around faster(transform into them when leaving, transform right out of them when they stop).

It's very well established that Cybertronians just can't wait to transform into robot mode in front of as many humans as possible.

GuyIncognito wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:I appreciate your efforts to explain it, but I still see no reason they all had to LOOK like animals.

You could say the same for every other altmode that's been had in the past 30 years.

Like, "Optimus Prime doesn't need to LOOK like a truck. He just needs four wheels to get around and not much else."

Optimus looks like a truck because he's a ROBOT IN DISGUISE. That's the whole point of this discussion! If the alt mode isn't a disguise, there's no reason for it to look like something in the environment.

but...on Cybertron they were all transformers...so...it wasn't much of a disguise then.

Yeah, the whole "robots in disguise" purpose for the altmodes has been so loosely adhered to in all of the past 30 years that it really just boils down to being what the phrase was originally used for even before the first piece of fiction was ever produced: A mere marketing tool for promoting the toys' main gimmick.

Those who take the phrase too seriously need to be reminded that the whole point of that phrase at the end of the day is really just "to sell toys", even if the fiction has largely ignored it by advertising the toys in a large variety of other ways that have proven just as, if not more, successful.

While this figure isn't great. I might get him anyway. I like having characters from different eras in my classics lineup. I also didn't pick up a lot of Beast era toys at the time. I grew up with G1, then didn't start collecting again until the Unicron Trilogy was in full swing.

Heh, I was going to say a few posts back that in Beast Wars, they could have still been cars, just covered in flesh.. fleshy cars and trucks... that woulda been weird haha.

For arguments sake, acknowledging the fact that when they do transform in front of a buncha humans, they are clearly not in disguise anymore, it does serve a purpose for them to get away from those same humans, transform, and then blend in until they decide to transform again (ridiculous paintjobs are their own problem).

As for Cybertron, the alt modes, in whatever established fiction doesn't matter to me, and I simply associate the alt modes to having an ability to travel faster, fly, or store a million times amount of data compared to the average bot (Ex. Rewind) All of that has a purpose, and the addition of a cockpit or drivers seat works to let them blend in with the tons of other alien planets that are home to humanoid aliens, and then they can simulate a driver, blend in, etc etc.

Now, talking beast wars, yea... best to leave it to cartoon fun, but if we have to validate it on some "realistic" level, then yeah, combination of Cybertronian adapting procedure, shielding, and having some style preference in not looking like a fleshy car. Humans have clothes and fashion, which really isn't without an illogical aspect of aesthetics. So, might as well throw that into the reasons for an aliens "coverings" as well.

Or you can say f*** the whole thing, get liquored up and enjoy it for what it is. Either way, I love it. Imagine if they did crash land by rural animals, so they were all cows, sheep and pigs... and then you'd have your ponies, haha.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the fact that the Beast Wars characters crash-landed on a primitive, prehistoric planet with no technology beyond simple tools and the lever even invented yet isn't as common knowledge as one would believe (based on posts asking why they chose animals over vehicles, since vehicles didn't exist in this setting).

Sabrblade wrote:Somehow, I get the feeling that the fact that the Beast Wars characters crash-landed on a primitive, prehistoric planet with no technology beyond simple tools and the lever even invented yet isn't as common knowledge as one would believe (based on posts asking why they chose animals over vehicles, since vehicles didn't exist in this setting).

Well, it's not that vehicles didn't exist on earth, its the fact that they were ALREADY vehicles on Cybertron, and wouldn't really have needed to change to animal forms as a disguise (with the assumption that changing alt modes was mainly for the purpose of disguise). And it is a legitimate question given the fact that, as many pointed out, there really was no functional reason to look like native animals. They could have had the exterior fleshy coverings on their vehicles parts Even though airazor was a hawk, there is no way something like a metalic robot is light enough to just fly with wings of that size. The more the threads are pulled, the less sense those animal modes make from a functional pov. Maybe it can be explained away with some anti-grav wings she had, I dunno.

Noideaforaname wrote:I think Bay's movies of all places got into the spirit of "robots in disguise" better than the other series (case in point: Laserbeak), but even then they regularly featured a bunch of showroom concept sports cars driving down the road with a semi with custom flame paint, a Hummer-turned-ambulance, NASCARs with guns, and now an army truck.

I think the TF:Prime series actually did a great job emphasizing the whole 'Robots in Disguise' trope. Optimus must have either invoked it directly or alluded to it a dozen times when telling some of the 'Bots to keep a low profile.

megatronus wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:I think Bay's movies of all places got into the spirit of "robots in disguise" better than the other series (case in point: Laserbeak), but even then they regularly featured a bunch of showroom concept sports cars driving down the road with a semi with custom flame paint, a Hummer-turned-ambulance, NASCARs with guns, and now an army truck.

I think the TF:Prime series actually did a great job emphasizing the whole 'Robots in Disguise' trope. Optimus must have either invoked it directly or alluded to it a dozen times when telling some of the 'Bots to keep a low profile.

Rescue Bots probably does it best out of all 30 years' worth of fiction since not only do the robot modes get to be part of the disguise, but the public knows about and accepts them without really knowing that they're alive.

Once again I find me asking myself why I haven't been watching Rescue Bots...

Noideaforaname wrote:Once again I find me asking myself why I haven't been watching Rescue Bots...

It is (or was) on Netflix. Get watching!

Noideaforaname wrote:Once again I find me asking myself why I haven't been watching Rescue Bots...

Yeah, the disguises in that show aren't the vehicle modes, but the concept of the Bots pretending to be manmade, human-operated, semi-intelligent mechs developed by the U.S. government for emergency response purposes.

Sabrblade wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:Once again I find me asking myself why I haven't been watching Rescue Bots...

Yeah, the disguises in that show aren't the vehicle modes, but the concept of the Bots pretending to be manmade, human-operated, semi-intelligent mechs developed by the U.S. government for emergency response purposes.

That's stretching it a little, don't you think? O well, whatever works. Cartoon characters aren't normally the sharpest tools in the shed anyway.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:Once again I find me asking myself why I haven't been watching Rescue Bots...

Yeah, the disguises in that show aren't the vehicle modes, but the concept of the Bots pretending to be manmade, human-operated, semi-intelligent mechs developed by the U.S. government for emergency response purposes.

That's stretching it a little, don't you think? O well, whatever works. Cartoon characters aren't normally the sharpest tools in the shed anyway.

Nnnnnoooo, because that's exactly what we were told they had to pretend to be back in episode 1, and later episodes (like episode 5) had Chief Burns amend their pretending into being semi-intelligent to explain to the inquisitive public how and why these seemingly human-controlled robots could function at all without their human operators.

megatronus wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:I think Bay's movies of all places got into the spirit of "robots in disguise" better than the other series (case in point: Laserbeak), but even then they regularly featured a bunch of showroom concept sports cars driving down the road with a semi with custom flame paint, a Hummer-turned-ambulance, NASCARs with guns, and now an army truck.

I think the TF:Prime series actually did a great job emphasizing the whole 'Robots in Disguise' trope. Optimus must have either invoked it directly or alluded to it a dozen times when telling some of the 'Bots to keep a low profile.

naw, in Prime they had to stay disguised to keep a low budget. If they'd been exposed in front of loads of humans someone would have had to make models of all those humans and animate them.

Seriously though, Prime and the very early IDW comics were the last things that I felt really embraced the Robots In Disguise part of it. Whilst it is an interesting way to introduce the characters into a story for the first time, I think it's probably a far bigger selling point for kids. They'll get excited by the concept because then any car that they see could be a Transformer. That's pretty cool. Hell, I know that even now when I a car transporter with a white cab I think of it being Ultra Magnus, for example. But in TF fiction, I'd rather just get stuck into the meat and potatoes of them being millions of years old robots at war (or...in some cases post-war).

The Autobots in Prime didn't have to worry about their covers being blown, they had Raf to magically delete every trace of their existence in case that happened.

Noideaforaname wrote:The Autobots in Prime didn't have to worry about their covers being blown, they had Raf to magically delete every trace of their existence in case that happened.

Raf ex machina.