The Energon Pub

Some people here claimed Bumblebee Mass-Shifted. Nope, i found a video where he transform. We clearly see that his big size is jsut an optical illusion. He HIS the size of a Camaro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXkq2533OI
Look at the end of the clip where he transform.

That vid was for a teaser trailer to a video game dude....but yeah theres no mass shifting, whoever said that is dumb.

yea that video was a trailer for command and conquer....

Blatant advertisement...failed.

If the Camaro were a solid object with no trunk space, no room for a driver or passengers, or Bumblebee's robot mode looked like a stick insect, then there'd be no mass-shifting.

Assuming that the term 'mass shifting' is being used to describe 'physical mass coming out of nowhere' then yes, he is mass-shifting. The same is probably true for most of the Autobots, especially Ratchet, assuming his rear half isn't just a solid block.

Well you do know that when they Transform there are sockets that their arms and feet suck into. And well when they become robot mode again the arms and feet come out of those sockets.

So really no mass-shifting.

*Check the video*
WTF?

Sorry for all this...i paste the wrong link!

But how did the allspark shrink down so small then? I couldn't help but chuckle after hearin Michael Bay go on and on for a year about how stupid mass shifting is, then that giant cube shrinks down to something a human can hold. 30 foot tall Megatron into a hand gun, that's one thing. But the 100+ foot high allspark shrinking down that small...wait, no that's the same thing :)

Well, wait, now I'm wondering if maybe it was just an homage to the mass shifting of old or something like that.

Bumbled wrote:Well you do know that when they Transform there are sockets that their arms and feet suck into. And well when they become robot mode again the arms and feet come out of those sockets.

So really no mass-shifting.

Are they sub-space sockets that they disappear into, like the fan explanation for mass-shifting in G1? Because 'sockets' does absolutely nothing to explain how the front of the car folds-up and bends when transforming into his chest, and yet his chest is still wider than the front of a Camaro in many scenes.

AbsumZer0 wrote:If the Camaro were a solid object with no trunk space, no room for a driver or passengers, or Bumblebee's robot mode looked like a stick insect, then there'd be no mass-shifting.

Assuming that the term 'mass shifting' is being used to describe 'physical mass coming out of nowhere' then yes, he is mass-shifting. The same is probably true for most of the Autobots, especially Ratchet, assuming his rear half isn't just a solid block.

You seen the BB figures??? The automorph in the legs demonstrates that there is enough material there for the legs & feet to form from without mass-shift. As for the midsection/passenger space. Agreed. However if the front of the car, engine etc, minus the body shell moved down into the midsection then there is enough material. As long as BB (& all other TFs) are kinda hollow then its really not mass-creating, more literal mass-SHIFTING.

Frenzy's head FTL.

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:Frenzy's head FTL.

Eh?

Justicity wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:Frenzy's head FTL.

Eh?

Frenzy's head truning into a cell phone.......

Justicity wrote:You seen the BB figures??? The automorph in the legs demonstrates that there is enough material there for the legs & feet to form from without mass-shift. As for the midsection/passenger space. Agreed. However if the front of the car, engine etc, minus the body shell moved down into the midsection then there is enough material. As long as BB (& all other TFs) are kinda hollow then its really not mass-creating, more literal mass-SHIFTING.

What? The legs on the toys are a great deal less bulky than those of the cgi models and the toys have no driver/passenger/trunk space. The legs and feet of the toys are actually made from what would be the trunk space and the backseat passernger space of a real car, so I'm not seeing what that's supposed to prove. Perhaps more importantly the scale of the toys to their film counterpart changes completely when you transform it, with the Bumblebee in the film being a great deal larger compared to his vehicle mode than the toy is. The one in the movie GROWS to an extent that can't be explained away by decompression.

What does explain it is the cgi model being scaled-up for dramatic purposes, or to look closer in size to characters like Starscream whose vehicle modes actually do have enough mass to make them as large as they appear without fudging it.

EDIT: To be more accurate, Bumblebee grows in terms of width and depth, not height, assuming that the official height of 15' is kept (although it often appears to be disregarded). I'm aware that a '77 Camaro is about 16' in length.

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

Justicity wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:Frenzy's head FTL.

Eh?

Frenzy's head truning into a cell phone.......

AH! I thought you meant into the CD player...
Yea, But to be honest, Frenzy is all small parts & collapsible/telescoping pieces. I'm not sure it would fit into a functioning Mobile phone, but a solid block, maybe.

Was mass shifting ever discussed in the cartoon? Or was it something made up later to explain the magic of becoming a tiny gun or cassette player? I don't recall ever hearing about it before the comics. It's kind of like the deal with the Klingon's foreheads, how there was some affliction that changed their appearance or something, when all it was was just a makeup change.

Ok - as with the other posts i'm gonna put up soon, i'm already retreating into the bowels of metroplex to hide from the haters (jeeze that sounds sooooo wrong).

I've just read through this post, and the qestion still remains - how can the allspark mass shift when bay went on for aaaaaaaaaaages about how mass shifting was stupid?

It just seems like a complete cop out to me. I mean, what was the point of it being huge to start with anyway?

Damnit, i'm not gonna get carried away at the stupidities of the film in this post - but like the guy who actually posted this thread - what IS the deal with mass shifting?!?!?

At this point, it should be fairly obvious that "No mass-shifting" was just empty phrase to shut fans up about design changes.

i think what they meant by no mass-changing is that megs is not going to turn into an itty-bitty handheld pistol and a character like soundwave is not goin to turn into a little boombox

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHAFxzVIakU

The "no Mass shfiting" rule was only for the first movie. That was why Soundwave is not in the first movie. They're saving them for the second when there will be the time to cover that ability as a proper plot point. And even though we see it with the Allspark, that is supposed to be an artifiact with "god-like powers" anyway. It can break any rule.

Moonbase, They never referred to Soundwave's ability as Mass shifting. The DW comic book refers to it as Mass Conversion, and it is described in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 as :

Mass conversion is the more complex of the two metnods, and it represents a significant genetic difference in those who posess it. In their standard size (for example, robot mode), the basic atomic components of Cybertronianswho utilize mass conversion are at rest. However, when called upon to convert into a larger or smaller mode, the very sub-atomic particles that compose them restructure themselves even as the being's body changes its physical configuration. Much like a Cybertronian's physical form can change its shape and properties, so can the atomic building blocks of those who posess mass conversion abilities. These particles are hardwired to reconfigure themselves according to a predetermined schematic, splitting up or combining to alter their own mass and density to match the needs of the mode in question.

I say they stuff the windshield/seats/whatever into their own little personal pocket dimentions and leave it at that.

Tiemar wrote:I say they stuff the windshield/seats/whatever into their own little personal pocket dimentions and leave it at that.

Actually, according to the designers and animators, the robots' bodies are made completely out of the vehicles various parts. That is why they are made of so many pieces.

Tramp wrote:

Tiemar wrote:I say they stuff the windshield/seats/whatever into their own little personal pocket dimentions and leave it at that.

Actually, according to the designers and animators, the robots' bodies are made completely out of the vehicles various parts. That is why they are made of so many pieces.

So... where are the windshields and seats?