The Energon Pub

AUTOBOT STITH wrote::HEADHURTS: HUH??????????????Ok were did I miss somthing?!

Something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.

Can the mods close this topic please? This is going nowhere.

Sid Burn wrote:You though, do not get the same consideration that I just gave Sonray based on his post count.

clearly 11,000 posts later, you are still a pretentious baiter. I guess quantity doesnt insure quality.

Wow! talk about double standards! Sonray agrees with your POV and therefore despite all the personal and offensive comments he's made in this thread he's 'just expressing his opinion'. For the duration of this thread I've done nothing but express my opinion and just because I throw in a few light hearted joke (towards the end of a clearly dying thread) designed to highlight the hypocrisy in some of Sonrays comments I'm a baiter.

Let's all hope someone locks this thread soon because clearly the children cant play nice.

Yours AK

Okay just for the record I think you should keep quiet because you wouldn't be making posts like this if you didn't expected to have some sort of response.

I don't understand how you guys can enjoy running around in circles like this.

close this thread, now it's just pointless bickering

Before we can enter heaven, we should be like a child.

Sid Burn wrote:

Tramp wrote:From a story-telling perspecitve, it had to be told from the human point of view because, since this is the first movie, we are being introduced to the TransFormers for the first time, and it is the humans who we, the audience, would most relate to. It is through the eyes of the humans in the story that we learn about the Autobots and Decepticons. It is through Sam Witwickey's eyes that we come to know Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and the rest. Without the human story, We never really know the TransFormers. Remember, this movie was not made just for the die-hard fans. It was made for the general public. Thus, the movie cannot assume that everyone knows the ins-and-outs of TF lore. They need to be introduced to it through human eyes. You can't do it through the eyes of the TransFormers themselves. It has to be told from the human perspective. Also, without the Humans, the whole point of the TransFormers being "Robots In Disguise" becomes moot because there would be no one to hide from. Not only that, money is also an issue. Too many TransFormers or too much screen time on them would cost an astronomical amount of money, making such a movie impossible. It is a balancing act.

QFT! Everyone should read this post. Fans always seem to wish for less human interaction, but the human factor is what adds the sense of awe. Human characters are needed for Transformers to be at its best, Especially when introducing the characters.

Human characters will, nine times out of ten, give Transformers stories their heart. For my money, the only TF stories I've really enjoyed that didn't have humans were most of the IDW spotlights and "The War Within" volume #1. However, telling a story, any story, from one perspective shouldn't be done at the detriment of other characters. Just because one party is chosen as the focus doesn't mean other players should be underdeveloped.

This was what I felt happened with many of the Transformers in the movie. Optimus Prime and Bumblebee were really the only ones that had any character development at all. They were really well done. Also, depsite him not having any lines, I really liked Barricade's creeping and ultimate pursuit of Bumblebee. The other three Autobots, however, and most certainly the Decepticons were rendered nothing more than thumbnail sketches. They were merely functional (especially the 'Cons, most of whom only arrived to fight a destruction-heavy battle) plot points. This shouldn't have been the way it was. We should have seen the Transformers' characters develop in tandem with having a story told from the human perspective. Our understanding of the Transformers could have grown in parallel with Sam's appreciation of the situation into which he was thrown.

It was a shame that too much of the film's time was usurped by superfluous plot lines (i.e., the hackers) and crass jokes (lubrication, for example).

I still vote for more robot screen time, and less human screen time.

A few minutes intro with human story is enough. Then move on to TF scenes. The humans can still stay in the background, if you want a human feel to the scenes.

If Bay would zoom out on the bots when they transform, the cost of animating will be much much less. Just like the Blackout scene at the beginning.

It's because of Bay's style of zooming in, with lots of tinkering parts, and little spinning things all around Prime's body, that is pushing up the cost of the CGI.

Zoom out. And you'll probably cut down the cost to 10%.

Auto Bot wrote:I still vote for more robot screen time, and less human screen time.

Hear, hear!!

Auto Bot wrote:
Zoom out. And you'll probably cut down the cost to 10%.

And also cut the sheer sense of awe and amazement those scenes gave us.

Sonray wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:
Zoom out. And you'll probably cut down the cost to 10%.

And also cut the sheer sense of awe and amazement those scenes gave us.

On the contrary, it will add more "sheer sense of awe and amazement". Imagine being able to see and grasp the entirety of these giant transforming robots. Instead of just seeing his legs or crotch part, and missing out on all the other transforming parts.

It's exactly what Bay did in this movie. I can't see how the other parts of Prime transform. Just partial bits.

Let's see. I see the truck front grill started to split apart. Then zoom to some close up of some undefined parts. Next thing we see is the head popping out from back view.

On other scenes, we see Prime hit the brakes, the trailer part started to split, then again zoom in to undefined parts. We see discs and bells tinker and spin. Can't figure out what the hell are those. Then, magically, Prime is a robot.

Really lame.

The only way i can see the entirety of Prime is thru the toy. And the toy is not even accurate!

Well i have no trouble watching them transform, and i think the way it was done is fine.

You have to remember that there are going to be alot of "unidentifiable parts" as these are complex designs made to look like they are actually transforming into real space. The parts dont just disappear or morph away like the old cartoon, they transform based on reality and complex mathematical calculations.

And the idea of "zooming in" was intended so that we could see all the small little details and moving parts.

Also, to keep the camera on one robot with no cuts throughout the entire transformation sequence would have ruined the speed and flow of the action, like the freeway chase and prime transforming before kicking bonecrusher's ass.

Personally for that scene i would have had a 360 degree camera rotation around prime up until he was transformered to the point where he jumped to miss the car. Think of a bullet-time style of shot, just not in slow motion.
But that would have been a much more complex shot, and a very expensive one considering the budge they had to work with on this movie.

In comparison, the one and only best transformation scene is Blackout at the beginning. You see the whole chopper become a robot.

All the Prime transformation scenes are so lame.

I say this not to bring down the TF movie. But to let whoever will direct TF2 realize there's so much more room for improvements.

Leonardo wrote:
Human characters will, nine times out of ten, give Transformers stories their heart. For my money, the only TF stories I've really enjoyed that didn't have humans were most of the IDW spotlights and "The War Within" volume #1. However, telling a story, any story, from one perspective shouldn't be done at the detriment of other characters. Just because one party is chosen as the focus doesn't mean other players should be underdeveloped.

This was what I felt happened with many of the Transformers in the movie. Optimus Prime and Bumblebee were really the only ones that had any character development at all. They were really well done. Also, depsite him not having any lines, I really liked Barricade's creeping and ultimate pursuit of Bumblebee. The other three Autobots, however, and most certainly the Decepticons were rendered nothing more than thumbnail sketches. They were merely functional (especially the 'Cons, most of whom only arrived to fight a destruction-heavy battle) plot points. This shouldn't have been the way it was. We should have seen the Transformers' characters develop in tandem with having a story told from the human perspective. Our understanding of the Transformers could have grown in parallel with Sam's appreciation of the situation into which he was thrown.

It was a shame that too much of the film's time was usurped by superfluous plot lines (i.e., the hackers) and crass jokes (lubrication, for example).

Actually, I feel that the Hacker stroy line was essential to the plot. Without them we would not see the Decepticon plot unfold. We would not know about the virus being used to disrupt communications. They were our window into the Decepticons. It was the hackers who discovered the virus, it was the hackers who decoded the signal which lead to us finding out the Decepticons' goals and the connection to Sam and the Allspark. It was the hackers who figured out how to circumvent the virus. That sounds pretty essential to me.

As for the Autobots, I actually felt that they were all given enough personality and character. Each really showed who they were and gave them very disticnt personalities. Jazz was the "cool" one, who just fits in. He's slick and stylish. Ironhide is the gung-ho, "let's kick but", somewhat trigger-happy old war horse, and Ratchet is the humorous, smart-aleck medic. Their perosnalities are there and developed.

I didnt think it was all that bad... Guess the idea was a little out there but... other than that its pretty innocent i think...

Deceptiwho? wrote:I didnt think it was all that bad... Guess the idea was a little out there but... other than that its pretty innocent i think...

Thats freaking awesome!!!

Apart from his arm cannon being on the wrong arm, thats an awesome picture!

Sonray wrote:Apart from his arm cannon being on the wrong arm, thats an awesome picture!

It's not on his arm.

Yours AK

Trying to get back to the original point of the thread...

I honestly didn't see a problem with it. I've seen the movie four times and laughed each time, as did everyone in the audience with me, adult and child alike. I'm twenty-three (tomorrow) and I was able to fully enjoy a part of my childhood with my six-year-old brother, as well as open him up to the old cartoon and toys that I enjoyed watching as a kid and my father enjoyed when I was a baby. Sure it was a little odd to have in the movie, but that didn't make it any less funny to me. Bumblebee was my hero as a kid, and that really hasn't changed. I enjoyed seeing him get to cut loose a little while still remaining the kind-hearted minibot I had grown up with. We all have little bouts of immature behavior and, while sometimes poorly timed or used for selfish reasons, it can be very funny. Bee went through a lot in that movie, so maybe standing there listening to Simmons act like a jerk was just too much for him. Sure, it wasn't his most impressive moment, but he got his message across. In his place, I'd have done the same thing. *laughs* Simmons was annoying.

I agree that he probably got the idea from the dog "lubricating" on Ironhide's foot. Worked to tick off Ironhide, so why not the annoying human?

It didn't hurt anything, it was a little bit of silly, crude humor, and in a lot of ways it was justified, if poorly timed. He wasn't hurting the guy, just humiliating him. And in a way, it was kind of asserting his dominance. Bee's several million years old, for crying out loud! He doesn't have to take that kinda crap from some forty-something whiny dude! If "lubricating" on him is a harmless way of getting him to shut up, I say go for it.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth of an opinion, which will probably be flamed or be ignored. *shrugs* I just can't believe people are so up-in-arms about this. As a G1 fan myself, I thought the movie was a blast and I hope to see it as often as I can, so long as it is in theaters, and I'm getting the DVD as soon as it comes out. I can't wait for a sequel or two or three...I just think everyone is taking this WAY too seriously. It's a movie about a cartoon about toy robots that turn into cars. You CAN'T take that too seriously or your brain will explode. Just sit back, shut off your brain for the stupid parts and enjoy the awesomeness. Take the movie for what it is: Fun times.

There are way more out-there things to be complaining about. Like, the lack of characterization (which I notice has been mentioned), the uneven human-to-robot-screentime ratio (also mentioned), lack of seriousness on the part of the robots regarding their mission (also mentioned), and the flippant reaction on the Autobots' part to Bee losing his legs and to Jazz being ripped-the-hell-in-half!

And yet, in spite of my noticing these issues, it didn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying the movie enough to see it multiple times. I guess I'm just a silly little fangirl. I thought a pee joke was funny and moved on to enjoy the awesome. Oh well.

*WHEW!* Alrighty. I think I'm done now.

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Sonray wrote:Apart from his arm cannon being on the wrong arm, thats an awesome picture!

It's not on his arm.

Yours AK

OOhh i see, he's taken it off. Alright then, my bad.

Shadowsabre:

Thank you for talking some sense finally, and i 100% agree with you.

I'll back you up if anyone tries to flame you for saying what you did.

Sonray wrote:Shadowsabre:

Thank you for talking some sense finally, and i 100% agree with you.

I'll back you up if anyone tries to flame you for saying what you did.

<3 Much appreciation. I'm normally a bit of a lurker, but if I have an opinion I like to voice it. No point in exercising the right of free speech otherwise.

Tramp wrote:As for the Autobots, I actually felt that they were all given enough personality and character. Each really showed who they were and gave them very disticnt personalities. Jazz was the "cool" one, who just fits in. He's slick and stylish. Ironhide is the gung-ho, "let's kick but", somewhat trigger-happy old war horse, and Ratchet is the humorous, smart-aleck medic. Their perosnalities are there and developed.

That's not what I'd call developed. That's what I'd call skeletal. There's nothing more engaging or well-rounded there than in a short paragraph on the back of a toy package.

Shadowsabre wrote:Trying to get back to the original point of the thread...

I honestly didn't see a problem with it. I've seen the movie four times and laughed each time, as did everyone in the audience with me, adult and child alike. I'm twenty-three (tomorrow) and I was able to fully enjoy a part of my childhood with my six-year-old brother, as well as open him up to the old cartoon and toys that I enjoyed watching as a kid and my father enjoyed when I was a baby. Sure it was a little odd to have in the movie, but that didn't make it any less funny to me. Bumblebee was my hero as a kid, and that really hasn't changed. I enjoyed seeing him get to cut loose a little while still remaining the kind-hearted minibot I had grown up with. We all have little bouts of immature behavior and, while sometimes poorly timed or used for selfish reasons, it can be very funny. Bee went through a lot in that movie, so maybe standing there listening to Simmons act like a jerk was just too much for him. Sure, it wasn't his most impressive moment, but he got his message across. In his place, I'd have done the same thing. *laughs* Simmons was annoying.

I agree that he probably got the idea from the dog "lubricating" on Ironhide's foot. Worked to tick off Ironhide, so why not the annoying human?

It didn't hurt anything, it was a little bit of silly, crude humor, and in a lot of ways it was justified, if poorly timed. He wasn't hurting the guy, just humiliating him. And in a way, it was kind of asserting his dominance. Bee's several million years old, for crying out loud! He doesn't have to take that kinda crap from some forty-something whiny dude! If "lubricating" on him is a harmless way of getting him to shut up, I say go for it.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth of an opinion, which will probably be flamed or be ignored. *shrugs* I just can't believe people are so up-in-arms about this. As a G1 fan myself, I thought the movie was a blast and I hope to see it as often as I can, so long as it is in theaters, and I'm getting the DVD as soon as it comes out. I can't wait for a sequel or two or three...I just think everyone is taking this WAY too seriously. It's a movie about a cartoon about toy robots that turn into cars. You CAN'T take that too seriously or your brain will explode. Just sit back, shut off your brain for the stupid parts and enjoy the awesomeness. Take the movie for what it is: Fun times.

There are way more out-there things to be complaining about. Like, the lack of characterization (which I notice has been mentioned), the uneven human-to-robot-screentime ratio (also mentioned), lack of seriousness on the part of the robots regarding their mission (also mentioned), and the flippant reaction on the Autobots' part to Bee losing his legs and to Jazz being ripped-the-hell-in-half!

And yet, in spite of my noticing these issues, it didn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying the movie enough to see it multiple times. I guess I'm just a silly little fangirl. I thought a pee joke was funny and moved on to enjoy the awesome. Oh well.

*WHEW!* Alrighty. I think I'm done now.

Me too.

But try to watch it the 6th time. You'll feel all the S7 trash to be so boring. You may fall asleep just waiting for the city battle scene. Which, by the way, takes a really looooong time to come by.

Auto Bot wrote:But try to watch it the 6th time. You'll feel all the S7 trash to be so boring. You may fall asleep just waiting for the city battle scene. Which, by the way, takes a really looooong time to come by.

I don't think I could even bring myself to watch it a second time TBH, but I suspect if I did I'd enjoy the very beginning of the movie with all the Sam stuff and the BB vs. Barricade bit and then the other Autobots will land, Sector 7 will show their faces and I'll go sleepy bye out of complete boredom and total apathy for the shallow characters and lackluster plot.

It's alright for some to say people are taking it too seriously and should just enjoy it for what it is, but IMO what it is is a poorly paced, largely dull an vacuouos action movie. I tried to enjoy it for what it was but it just wasnt enjoyable enough.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:But try to watch it the 6th time. You'll feel all the S7 trash to be so boring. You may fall asleep just waiting for the city battle scene. Which, by the way, takes a really looooong time to come by.

I don't think I could even bring myself to watch it a second time TBH, but I suspect if I did I'd enjoy the very beginning of the movie with all the Sam stuff and the BB vs. Barricade bit and then the other Autobots will land, Sector 7 will show their faces and I'll go sleepy bye out of complete boredom and total apathy for the shallow characters and lackluster plot.

It's alright for some to say people are taking it too seriously and should just enjoy it for what it is, but IMO what it is is a poorly paced, largely dull an vacuouos action movie. I tried to enjoy it for what it was but it just wasnt enjoyable enough.

Yours AK

But you'd be laughing at the lubrication gag, correct?

Basically, if you delete all the S7 trash, the rest of the movie can be quite watchable, repeatedly.

But to be even more enjoyable, you have to cut out the military chit-chat scenes, and the code-breaker scenes as well.