The Energon Pub

Has everybody forgotten his mom was white?

He isn't 100% black

Hell when we do get one in then that will be something

Ironhidensh wrote:Looks like you were wrong. A lot changed since we all made this thread, no? Like my choice for President.

Yes people, this redneck voted for Obama.

Congratulations. You have just blown my freakin' mind.

Wheeljack35 wrote:Has everybody forgotten his mom was white?

He isn't 100% black

Hell when we do get one in then that will be something

Don't split hairs, or genetics.

Why does his skin color matter anyway? I don't care if he's red, black, white, yellow, or has purple spots. I really don't think it should be considered a milestone. Making a big deal out of a black man becoming president just promotes discrimination by saying skin color matters.

Original Sin wrote:Why does his skin color matter anyway? I don't care if he's red, black, white, yellow, or has purple spots. I really don't think it should be considered a milestone. Making a big deal out of a black man becoming president just promotes discrimination by saying skin color matters.

Yeah, because it's not like America has a history of oppression or anything, or that this is a sign we may have changed and become more open-minded from even thirty years ago.

Making a big deal out of skin color does the opposite of making progress. It promotes discrimination. Why should gender, race, or even religion matter? I am all about equal rights, but making a big deal about the first "black" something isn't equal rights. He should be treated like every president before him.

Original Sin wrote:Making a big deal out of skin color does the opposite of making progress. It promotes discrimination. Why should gender, race, or even religion matter? I am all about equal rights, but making a big deal about the first "black" something isn't equal rights. He should be treated like every president before him.

Agreed.

Original Sin wrote:Making a big deal out of skin color does the opposite of making progress. It promotes discrimination. Why should gender, race, or even religion matter? I am all about equal rights, but making a big deal about the first "black" something isn't equal rights. He should be treated like every president before him.

You're still not getting it. Forty years ago, a black person couldn't even share the same bus seat as a white person. Now a black man is president. Does that not say progress to you?

The idea that Obama's race shouldn't matter is unusually PC.

Shadowman wrote:

Original Sin wrote:Making a big deal out of skin color does the opposite of making progress. It promotes discrimination. Why should gender, race, or even religion matter? I am all about equal rights, but making a big deal about the first "black" something isn't equal rights. He should be treated like every president before him.

You're still not getting it. Forty years ago, a black person couldn't even share the same bus seat as a white person. Now a black man is president. Does that not say progress to you?

The idea that Obama's race shouldn't matter is unusually PC.

You are both making valid points in two different aspects. Shadowman, I agree with you that the fact that we now have a black president shows progress. Original Sin isn't saying it doesn't show progress, but he is saying that Obama should not be viewed to be a great president because of his race as that would be racism. We need to agree that our need to better ourselves and our country have led to Obama becoming our next president, but he should be judged by his actions rather than being the first black president.

Predaprince wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Original Sin wrote:Making a big deal out of skin color does the opposite of making progress. It promotes discrimination. Why should gender, race, or even religion matter? I am all about equal rights, but making a big deal about the first "black" something isn't equal rights. He should be treated like every president before him.

You're still not getting it. Forty years ago, a black person couldn't even share the same bus seat as a white person. Now a black man is president. Does that not say progress to you?

The idea that Obama's race shouldn't matter is unusually PC.

You are both making valid points in two different aspects. Shadowman, I agree with you that the fact that we now have a black president shows progress. Original Sin isn't saying it doesn't show progress, but he is saying that Obama should not be viewed to be a great president because of his race as that would be racism. We need to agree that our need to better ourselves and our country have led to Obama becoming our next president, but he should be judged by his actions rather than being the first black president.

That's kind of what I'm saying; Just being the first black president doesn't make Obama great. But saying it doesn't matter is basically ignoring the hundreds of years of oppression in this country.

Alright guys, careful with the political talk, CB might get afraid and lock the thread.........

Ironhidensh wrote:Alright guys, careful with the political talk, CB might get afraid and lock the thread.........

To be fair, I think he's more worried about the kind of violent mud-slinging that killed the Philosopher's Forum.

Shadowman wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Alright guys, careful with the political talk, CB might get afraid and lock the thread.........

To be fair, I think he's more worried about the kind of violent mud-slinging that killed the Philosopher's Forum.

Well, that shouldn't happen. So long as we all remember to not say anything that could offend anyone's views, no matter how wrong or silly they may be, or how funny the joke may be.

After all, this is the internet, we can be civil.......

Mud slinging comes with life. Is it ugly, nasty, and unnecessary? Yes. But it is still a part of life. Locking threads when it shows up is nothing more than censorship. If the 'powers' that be don't like it, ban the mudslingers, not the threads and forums. Catering to the lowest common denominator is the reason that our country is in the **** hole that it is.

Ironhidensh wrote:Mud slinging comes with life. Is it ugly, nasty, and unnecessary? Yes. But it is still a part of life. Locking threads when it shows up is nothing more than censorship. If the 'powers' that be don't like it, ban the mudslingers, not the threads and forums. Catering to the lowest common denominator is the reason that our country is in the **** hole that it is.

When I say "mud slinging," I don't mean debate where someone may have gotten rubbed the wrong way, I mean, there was no debate. The Philosopher's Forum had become one huge flame war. People were banned, but because so many topics were too touchy for too many people, the Philosopher's Forum may have just changed it's name to Fight Club.

Shadowman wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Mud slinging comes with life. Is it ugly, nasty, and unnecessary? Yes. But it is still a part of life. Locking threads when it shows up is nothing more than censorship. If the 'powers' that be don't like it, ban the mudslingers, not the threads and forums. Catering to the lowest common denominator is the reason that our country is in the **** hole that it is.

When I say "mud slinging," I don't mean debate where someone may have gotten rubbed the wrong way, I mean, there was no debate. The Philosopher's Forum had become one huge flame war. People were banned, but because so many topics were too touchy for too many people, the Philosopher's Forum may have just changed it's name to Fight Club.

Yeah, at times it only took five posts before the entire thread was nothing but **** you!! Plus, privately owned site, etc...

I guess this just isn't the place it was a few years ago. I had hoped the changes were just a fad, but sadly, looks like the whole place really has sold out........

Ironhidensh wrote:I guess this just isn't the place it was a few years ago. I had hoped the changes were just a fad, but sadly, looks like the whole place really has sold out........

Sorry, I just don't remember a time when a forum-wide flame war was ever allowed.

Ironhidensh wrote:I guess this just isn't the place it was a few years ago. I had hoped the changes were just a fad, but sadly, looks like the whole place really has sold out........

Welcome to the Seibertron nostalgia club. Here's your card

I'd love to see the debates come back, when everyone was relativly civil and respectful of each other they were really cool.

Shadowman wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I guess this just isn't the place it was a few years ago. I had hoped the changes were just a fad, but sadly, looks like the whole place really has sold out........

Sorry, I just don't remember a time when a forum-wide flame war was ever allowed.

That would be an epic event.

I'm going to say that America is ready for a black president. Problem is that as the first black president, Obama is going to be under heavy scrutiny. If he leads well and makes decisions that Americans like then I could see another black president after him, but if he does something to really piss off the nation then I get the feeling it will be a long time before we see another black president.

I really could care less about his skin color. I just want someone in office who will lead. People don't like Bush, but they fail to remember that Bush is a republican and he has to work with Congress who happens to have a democratic majority. That means that the entire system is at a standstill because neither side wants to let the other do what they want. Bush being the person everyone knows by name is then subject to negative views when it's actually everyone's fault.

I'm on the fence about Obama until I see him in action. I do worry about some of the laws he wants to pass and what he'll do in Iraq, but I'm going to wait and see for now. That's all I can do.

If I broke any forum rules, then please let me know. I tried to look at the situation in a way that considers both sides and be civil about it, but I'm only human.

robofreak wrote:I really could care less about his skin color. I just want someone in office who will lead. People don't like Bush, but they fail to remember that Bush is a republican and he has to work with Congress who happens to have a democratic majority.

Wasn't there a Republican Majority between 2003 and 2007?

robofreak wrote:That means that the entire system is at a standstill because neither side wants to let the other do what they want. Bush being the person everyone knows by name is then subject to negative views when it's actually everyone's fault.

That's kind of how it works. Everyone around Warren Harding was so corrupt that it made him look more corrupt than he actually was. And then sitting next to George W. Bush was Karl Rove.

robofreak wrote:I'm on the fence about Obama until I see him in action. I do worry about some of the laws he wants to pass and what he'll do in Iraq, but I'm going to wait and see for now. That's all I can do.

With Iraq, it's not so much that we should just bring everyone home, it's that we need to pull out in such a way that the whole area doesn't collapse on itself and become worse than when Saddam was in power. And sadly, that is not an easy thing to do.

Phategod1 wrote:As a African-american It was hard for me to take the idea seriously Because honestly I know rasicm still exist today. But in all honestly Barack Obama is one of the best potential democratic canidates(Hillary Clinton Scares me more then Bush.)The South is the Big question mark. They are the ones who reelected that genius back in office and will they south support a black canidate? Honestly I still have to find where Obama stands on alot issues but he looks good on paper but I'll take Jeb Bush over Hillary.

Give the South a little credit, we've come a long way. The thing is, our fresh air makes people live longer. So there's a lot of 80-100 year-old white folks that, while they aren't outright racist, just aren't comfortable with a black President. The rest of us are perfectly normal people. We're just laying low til the old ones die off.

Hillary Clinton scares me too. She's too smart and manipulative to every be trustworthy. Given the atmosphere of modern American politics, that might have made her the perfect candidate.

I'm looking at this from the other side of the ocean so forgive me if my opinions seem a little harsh, keep in mind i'm trying to explain the general idea's people have over here , NOT my personal opinions unless expicitly noted!

fact is, after 8 years of Bush the usa's popularity has never been lower over here, and by over here i mean pretty much the rest of the world.

Usa and americans in general are being looked at as loud, backward warmongering ,dominant and pretty much responsibel for everything thats going wrong in the world....
Their making Bush out as the prototype for all americans.... I'm what you would consider as right minded, but i never liked the guy either....
Our (mostly heavely left wing dominated) media have made usa bashing into a bloody passtime and everyone who has the pretention of thinking there (for lack of a better word) 'sofisticated' has jumped on that train....its realy sad.

On a personal note i have had one of these morons coming up to me at a bar complaining that i had an american flag on the rear seat of my truck and that it was a discrace and i was a traitor because i sported that flag in a time 'the americans' 'where killing innocent people in iraq for oil', and that 'they blew up there own towers just to have an exuse to start a war' etc etc.....
I'm 6ft6 so standing up pretty much ended the argument.
This just to indicate just how **** up things are over here when it comes to opinions on you guys...

So Obama as president, whether he's black , green or purple with a dash of pink thrown in, YES PLEASE!

You guys realy , REALY need a new 'softer' PR agent if nothing else....the fact that he is (what we would call) 'left' can only help getting the world (and those press bloodsuckers) behind him more...

bossbot wrote:I'm looking at this from the other side of the ocean so forgive me if my opinions seem a little harsh, keep in mind i'm trying to explain the general idea's people have over here , NOT my personal opinions unless expicitly noted!

fact is, after 8 years of Bush the usa's popularity has never been lower over here, and by over here i mean pretty much the rest of the world.

Usa and americans in general are being looked at as loud, backward warmongering ,dominant and pretty much responsibel for everything thats going wrong in the world....
Their making Bush out as the prototype for all americans.... I'm what you would consider as right minded, but i never liked the guy either....
Our (mostly heavely left wing dominated) media have made usa bashing into a bloody passtime and everyone who has the pretention of thinking there (for lack of a better word) 'sofisticated' has jumped on that train....its realy sad.

On a personal note i have had one of these morons coming up to me at a bar complaining that i had an american flag on the rear seat of my truck and that it was a discrace and i was a traitor because i sported that flag in a time 'the americans' 'where killing innocent people in iraq for oil', and that 'they blew up there own towers just to have an exuse to start a war' etc etc.....
I'm 6ft6 so standing up pretty much ended the argument.
This just to indicate just how **** up things are over here when it comes to opinions on you guys...

So Obama as president, whether he's black , green or purple with a dash of pink thrown in, YES PLEASE!

You guys realy , REALY need a new 'softer' PR agent if nothing else....the fact that he is (what we would call) 'left' can only help getting the world (and those press bloodsuckers) behind him more...

We must keep in mind that all societies have people such as the one you described who think stereotypical beliefs of other societies and the people within them. It is true that there are certain people in America who are that way, but W. Bush had the lowest presidential rating ever (even a good day for him) and Obama won against McCain (the best choice the Republicans could make to run this time) with 70 electoral votes more than needed. It isn't a landslide, but it certainly doesn't need to be to show that the majority of Americans are fed up with W. and the image of America he has created in the world.

Bossbot: Wanting the world to like us is one of the problems. We're trying to keep everyone happy, but we get treated like dirt in the process. I've honestly gotten to the point where I don't care what other countries think. And if anyone tells you the US soldiers do nothing, but kills innocents then you can tell them that's false. I've talked to many a soldier who returned from Iraq and the situation is no where near as bad as what the world wants you to think it is. The news only broadcasts things that give the most bang. There not even touching on all the good they've done over there and many of the US soldiers are insulted that they only show stuff on the news that involves people dying or explosions.

Yes Shadowman, now that I did a little more research there was a republican majority, but it was'nt enough to pass anything with 2/3 vote from what I understand.

I think another problem people don't look at is that Bush is getting in trouble for most of the foreign policies Clinton put together. All those deals with China and the fact that he had mortgage companies give out loans to people who were too high a risk have created the problems that we have today. I'm not trying to say Bush is'nt a bad president, but he's definitely no Reagan. He's also in the middle of cleaning up Clinton's mess.

If Obama wants the US to like him, then he's going to need to work carefully with the Congress and listen to his advisors. He needs to focus on getting the US back into a better financial situation and balance the budget. It will be a lot of work, but it's what the country needs.

What bugs me about Iraq is that like Shadowman said, if you pull out too soon then you'll have even more problems than what you started with. If we were to pull out now, we'd end up having to go back in a year because of how unstable everything would become over there. The situation must be dealt with carefully.

Predaprince wrote:
We must keep in mind that all societies have people such as the one you described who think stereotypical beliefs of other societies and the people within them. It is true that there are certain people in America who are that way, but W. Bush had the lowest presidential rating ever (even a good day for him) and Obama won against McCain (the best choice the Republicans could make to run this time) with 70 electoral votes more than needed. It isn't a landslide, but it certainly doesn't need to be to show that the majority of Americans are fed up with W. and the image of America he has created in the world.

Couldnt agree more , your gonna find people who believe in stereotypes everywhere, but the thing is that (in this country anyway) the vast mayority of people think that way about the USA, 10 years ago that wasn't the case .... so i look at bush and our media for that (and the stupidity and gullability of the average belgian), that's all i'm saying...

i don't need to mention that this evolution is kinda impractical if like me you happen to be a fan of american (pop)culture and the country in general

And its realy nice te see that the americans are fed up with JW Bush believe me .

@robofreak
rest assured, i know better than what the average european sees on his local newsstation (AI exploding building in bagdad)....trying to convince anyone else over here of those believs is like trying to fit omega-supreme in blasters cassetedeck, its possible in theory, you just have to push, realy REALY hard