The Energon Pub

Realistically speaking (I promise that I'm not some sort of bigot), I think that a woman president and a black president are both sort of long shots. Plus, Hillary scares most voters more than grim death, so she is NOT getting into the White House (I'm hoping--nay, praying ).

So even though color and gender shouldn't be a factor, they will be. It's unfortunate, but true.

I'm a conservative, but I will say that I don't mind Obama. I actually like him more than almost any other Democrat currently in Congress. So in that regard, I'll be OK with him getting the nomination. But I'll have to really dislike the Republican nominee (in other words, McCain, and I don't see that happening) before I'd vote for Obama.

America as a whole will handle a black President or a woman President. However, just because there is a choice(on one side of the isle anyway) doesn't mean either is qualified for the job.
I hear people say they want to vote Obama or Hillary and you ask why? The simple unintelligent response I've heard is "Its time for a black man to be President" or "Cause she is a woman". What? Just any woman or black man will do? Neither of these two has done anything, ANYTHING, or national importance to qualify them for the job. If they were running for mayor or councilman I wouldn't look at experience as a factor but to be President of the USA means you need to have some practical legislation that you've introduced that had value. Neither of these has it. Plus there both so liberal that it borders on Socialism or Marxist ways that its scary.
The liberals like to call Bush Hitler but hes not done anything to warrant the comparison. These Dems openly state their goals, call it progressive and people think it sounds good.

Uugh, that anyone even needs to ask this question.....Im not american but surley racism is gone enough for a Black President by now.

BUT, and this is a big but, whether your country is ready for change outside your little box of safety is an entirely different question. Im sure the country would cope with it, as to whether they would vote in a black man or a woman, subconciously they dont want to, not because they are racist in the sense of the word, but because it changes from the norm...OR, they will vote them in BECAUSE they are Black or a woman, which is equally stupid and discriminative. I (although Im not even of age here in Aus) would think about the "political" issues before I vote because my mind is not hung up on such petty trivialities

I agree with the speculation that that racism/sexism will play a big role in the election. A lot of women will vote for Hillary simply because she is a woman. And a lot of blacks will vote for Obama just because he's black.
Sadly, this was inevitable. This is the unfortunate side effect of civil rights. People will always be inclined to stick with their own kind. There are biological reasons for it. It's wrong, but that's just the way it is. It is very difficult to overcome nature and so America has not done it.
I still think civil rights is a good idea. We should have black/female presidents from time to time but only if they are qualified. Unfortunately, people will vote for them regardless of qualification. Unless America can vote for black/female candidates based on qualification, America shouldn't vote for them at all. And this time, I don't think either one is qualified enough. But one of them probably will get elected anyway. I hope they are at least better than Bush.

Exactly, if Women vote in a Woman simply for that fact it is sheer insanity. Same with black people voting in a black person simply because of the fact he is black. They need experience before they arehe friggin president.

No, America isn't ready for a black president and the reason may not be what you would think. The reason is because the liberal democrats can't get over whether or not he is "black enough". As long as the liberal dems keep accusing Obama of not being "black enough", you know there is a problem. You can blame the south all you want but the liberal dems are the one screaming about Obama not being black enough. Now, in my eyes, that is racism at it's core. So wht if he hasn't descended from a slave family. Apparantly the dems have a problem that he didn't though. The dems and the Hillary campain are gonna destroy Obama. Not the south or even the republicans.

I would vote for Condoleeza Rice. Then you would have black and female at the same time. The woman amazes me with here intelligence, and charisma.

Phategod1 wrote:As a African-american It was hard for me to take the idea seriously Because honestly I know rasicm still exist today. But in all honestly Barack Obama is one of the best potential democratic canidates(Hillary Clinton Scares me more then Bush.)The South is the Big question mark. They are the ones who reelected that genius back in office and will they south support a black canidate? Honestly I still have to find where Obama stands on alot issues but he looks good on paper but I'll take Jeb Bush over Hillary.

I live in Texas and all of the minoritys hate bush, I myself did not vote for him. I cant stand him. And imo sadly no america is not ready for a black president or any other race then white because the sad truth is alot of the whites in power are racist somewhat, and will not allow a minority to be over them. This is just imo for anyone taking this to heart its not towards you. Im mexican and everyday in Austin I get whites staring at me like "oh my god is that mexican speaking english" Its funny really how dumb they make themselves look. When I go up to them and say "did you say something?" And yes NOt all whites are like that but the rednecks here are. Sorry went on a rant....

I'd say -humanity- isnt ready. All my research indicates that our facial recognition brain parts lock on target to kill every time we look at something even slightly different.

If you doubt that, my grandfather's family is Polish and Russian, but they changed their name to avoid discrimination - "ugly", apparently, was better than being called "Slav". We used to give southern and eastern EUROPEANS a lot of crap, folks, and it all boils down to this mechanism.

No amount of law can end biology.

Of course, biology has a hope of ending biology. My current running theory is that somewhere about 500ya, various and probably unwelcome forms of inter-racial contact occoured, and the descendants of such unions never had "proper" facial recognition. Of course, the genes are still there and it can come back later, explaining all the Latin-Americans who outright hate their non-white ancestry. (strangely enough, comes to about half of them id ever met. must be dominant)

And then there is I, who just sees humans - probably the rarest variant at this point in human history. And thus an outcast among the human race. I fear not much can change my mind on this.

In all probability, Hillary has a better shot then Obama even though I plan to vote for him.

If Obama wins, I'll be one happy girl, but if Hillary should win, I'll still be happy. Hell, even Edwards would suit me fine.

It's time for a change.

I don't see a Republican winning for two reasons:


1) The majority of the Nation seems tired and fed up with them and their antics. As am I.

2) There are more Repulican candidates then Democrate in the running; meaning the republican vote will be split further and neither of the candidates will have enough electoral votes to win the presidency, while the Democrate's vote won't be split nearly as far.

I stand corrected. I went to university yesterday, and saw a girl from somewhere in the Indus Valley area curled up on the couch in our Engineering school. With her large eyes, she looked a lot like a little brown anime girl. Incredibly cute.

She may have given me a rather nasty look for noticing her, which makes me think Pakistani and a restrictive Muslim upbringing, but she was wearing modern dress like an Indian. Probably a feminist who had bad experiences in her home country with the mentally inadequate men over there.*

Anyhow, the fact that she was probably mentally ruined aside, i realized that anyone, of any race, probably would think shes gorgeous, and that might be the real reason for her look at me - she gets looked at too often by EVERYONE!

*That applies to predominantly Muslim Pakistan, of course. I have never had any problem with their Hindu neighbors.

VecPrime wrote:I stand corrected. I went to university yesterday, and saw a girl from somewhere in the Indus Valley area curled up on the couch in our Engineering school. With her large eyes, she looked a lot like a little brown anime girl. Incredibly cute.

She may have given me a rather nasty look for noticing her, which makes me think Pakistani and a restrictive Muslim upbringing, but she was wearing modern dress like an Indian. Probably a feminist who had bad experiences in her home country with the mentally inadequate men over there.*

Anyhow, the fact that she was probably mentally ruined aside, i realized that anyone, of any race, probably would think shes gorgeous, and that might be the real reason for her look at me - she gets looked at too often by EVERYONE!

*That applies to predominantly Muslim Pakistan, of course. I have never had any problem with their Hindu neighbors.

do you realise how naive and judgmental you sound?

captain craig wrote:I hear people say they want to vote Obama or Hillary and you ask why? The simple unintelligent response I've heard is "Its time for a black man to be President" or "Cause she is a woman". What? Just any woman or black man will do? Neither of these two has done anything, ANYTHING, or national importance to qualify them for the job.

I'm voting for Obama. I'm trying to decide if I want to reregister as a republican, however, so I can vote against Romney in the primaries, but if I stay a democrat, I'll be voting for Obama in the primaries.


Reasons:

First off, the "because he's black" arguement is not unintelligent. It is a huge milestone to have a black person running the country because race still matters in this country or else this thread would not have been started. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the starter of this thread is a black guy. That means that at least one black person is thinking about the significance in society a black president would have. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that means that the black community as a whole is thinking about it. Race still matters, because humans are instinctively social in such a way to stick with similar people to themselves in some way. Thus races develope their own cultures. Race matters in America.

The same goes for the "because she's a woman" arguement. It's the milestone aspect. It opens the door for more in the future. Thurgood Marshall was the first black person to serve on the Supreme Court. That was big as well because it was a step away from the potential for racism against black people in the government at a time when black people were fighting for civil rights.

But you have a great point, however, in saying, "that doesn't mean they're qualified for the job". Exactly. I actually hate affirmative action, and that's basically what this election will come down to. So why was I defending it above? I wasn't. I was just explaining the reasoning.

That brings me to:

Secondly, my good reasons.

I'm voting for Obama because he is a liberal cantidate who shares my views. He stands a chance against Hilary, who so many people hate, and John Edwards who quite frankly isn't popular enough. Therefore, Obama is the best cantidate because he has the most chance to bring things I care about into government.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

PROS:

Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)

Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)

Some parents are abusive, and would abuse or beat their daughters horribly for having sex to early.

Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)

Strengthen the Americans with Disabilities Act. (Aug 2007)

My father has one leg. He needs good representation to fall back on if he's screwed over.

Legal rights for gays are conferred by state, not by church. (Aug 2007)

Put the Confederate flag in a museum, not the state house. (Apr 2007)

Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)

Because we have freedom of speech, burning the flag, if done explicitly as a statement of such, is actually patriotic. A ban is unconstitutional. Otherwise, I agree it's a horrible thing to do.

Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)

End tax breaks for companies that send jobs overseas. (Aug 2007)

Tax incentives for corporate responsibility. (Jun 2004)

Close tax loopholes for US companies relocating abroad. (Jun 2004)

REAL USA Plan: Reward companies that create domestic jobs. (Jun 2004)

Less Indian tech support means more American tech support, which means more jobs in America, which means less of a class gap.

Some heinous crimes justify the ultimate punishment. (Oct 2006)

Videotape all capital punishment interrogations. (Oct 2006)

Deal with street-level drug dealing as minimum-wage affair. (Oct 2006)

We left the money behind for No Child Left Behind. (Aug 2007)

Incentives to hire a million teachers over next decade. (Jun 2007)

Pay teachers more money & treat them like professionals. (Jun 2007)

Both parents were teachers. Worked hard to make a difference, and loved shaping kid's lives. And they deserved more.

More teacher pay in exchange for more teacher accountability. (Oct 2006)

Explore nuclear power as part of alternative energy mix. (Jul 2007)

It's clean. It makes a damn energy surplus that we could sell. And it's safe, with proper security and engineering.

Stop sending $800M a day to Mideast dictators for oil. (Mar 2007)

Wants Detroit to build more hybrids & use more ethanol. (Oct 2006)

Give Katrina contracts to locals, not to Halliburton. (Jun 2007)

All kids should learn about sexual abuse. (Jul 2007)

Strengthen NATO to face 21st-century threats. (Aug 2007)

China is a competitor, but not an enemy. (Aug 2007)

US policy should promote democracy and human rights. (Jul 2004)

Insist on labor and human rights standards for China trade. (Jul 2004)

YES. Exactly. Will he actually work towards this? He is so getting my vote.

Half of us don't vote; time for taking it back. (Jun 2007)

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

We need condom distribution to deal with the scourge of AIDS. (Aug 2007)

Homophobia prevents talking about HIV/AIDS. (Jun 2007)

Believes health care is a right, not a privilege for the few. (Sep 2004)

Support veterans via the Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act. (Aug 2007)

Give our soldiers the best equipment and training available. (Jul 2004)

Voted YES on preserving habeus corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)

They are not all terrorists. It is not soft to give them a chance. Once they are deemed terrorists, then punish them.

Voted YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods. (Sep 2006)

Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)

Close Guantanamo and restore the right of habeas corpus. (Jun 2007)

Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)

Voted YES on establishing a Guest Worker program. (May 2006)

Pres. candidates can afford minimum wage; most folks can't. (Jul 2007)

Make the minimum wage a living wage. (Jun 2007)

Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007)

Greatness based on Declaration of Independence, not military. (Jul 2004)

I'm a big believer in the separation of church and state. (Apr 2004)


CONS:

Supports affirmative action in colleges and government. (Jul 1998)

Wrong answer McFly. Having dark skin or a vagina or both does not automatically make you qualified.

Battles legislatively against the death penalty. (Jul 2004)

We need the death penalty for child serial rapists who bury 9 year old girls alive.

Sends kids to private school; but wants good schools for all. (Jul 2007)

His kids should see reality by going to public school.

Free public college for any student with B-average. (Jul 1998)

A pipe dream.

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

In some places maybe, but certainly not for the whole country.

Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)

Ugh. No f'ing way. That's really bad, actually, but it still isn't enough to overturn the good stuff.


So in short, Obama is more than qualified for the job. America needs someone like him in office. This is not just affirmative action. He's actually good for the job. And if that means a milestone in racial issues, all the better.

Dark Zarak, your post just reinforced my support of Obama by ten fold.

Neko wrote:Dark Zarak, your post just reinforced my support of Obama by ten fold.

Chief Wiggum wrote:Just doin' my job.

hhmmmm..Black Zarak or Black Barack.
Coincidence I think not.
I could see myself voting for different
black leaders before I would vote for Obama.

Voting for someone just because it is a milestone
is preposterous.

DISCHARGE wrote:hhmmmm..Black Zarak or Black Barack.
Coincidence I think not.
I could see myself voting for different
black leaders before I would vote for Obama.

Voting for someone just because it is a milestone
is preposterous.

But voting for someone who has all the views I listed, is not.

Be glad you didnt say that to my face this morning, Tammuz.

I personally believe that Islam is a religion that needs to be buried under the sands for all eternity, preferably by atomics. I recognize Hinduism as an ancient extension if not a root of European pagan practice, and thus it is spared my wrath.

No..... my girlfriend didnt leave me for one of those disgusting Semites.... tell you what, give me Octane's chassis and i'd BURN it all away. Imperial-style purification. Only way humans ever achieve peace - through superior firepower.

And i guess it is naieve for anyone to believe in humanity anymore, especially at this point in time as we head into the final battle that religion is creating.

I should really shift my focus to weapons design, since no one wants anything but this $%!#^% war.... i mean, the powers that be wont allow a REAL fuel alternative like the one iv'e developed. All that's in their budget is the Apocalypse.

I wonder how much they would pay for a tanker/jet...?

VecPrime wrote:Be glad you didnt say that to my face this morning, Tammuz.

I personally believe that Islam is a religion that needs to be buried under the sands for all eternity, preferably by atomics. I recognize Hinduism as an ancient extension if not a root of European pagan practice, and thus it is spared my wrath.

No..... my girlfriend didnt leave me for one of those disgusting Semites.... tell you what, give me Octane's chassis and i'd BURN it all away. Imperial-style purification. Only way humans ever achieve peace - through superior firepower.

And i guess it is naieve for anyone to believe in humanity anymore, especially at this point in time as we head into the final battle that religion is creating.

I should really shift my focus to weapons design, since no one wants anything but this $%!#^% war.... i mean, the powers that be wont allow a REAL fuel alternative like the one iv'e developed. All that's in their budget is the Apocalypse.

I wonder how much they would pay for a tanker/jet...?

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DISCHARGE wrote:hhmmmm..Black Zarak or Black Barack.
Coincidence I think not.
I could see myself voting for different
black leaders before I would vote for Obama.

Voting for someone just because it is a milestone
is preposterous.

If people were gonna vote for a black candidate JUST because he was black, Jessee Jackson would have been the first black president.

I think most people, especially now, don't take a candidate for face value. They'll let the political shows on TV critique everything about them and their stances on every important issue and judge for themselves.

If someone os going to not vote for a candidate because they are black or a woman, I think is just as bad a voting for a person BECAUSE they are black or a woman.


I don't support Obama because he is black, I support him because of his stances on issues I feel are important to me and us as a nation. I support Hillary as well, but Obama has more consistancies with my beliefs.

Obama has my vote.

Hey VecPrime, how much do you actually know about Islam?

Zarak..... enough to know about little Ayesha, why?

I think the less i know about them, the better. My girlfriend left me for an extremist Muslim from IRAQ of all places because of abuse issues in her past and her undying naieve belief in PC "all cultures should be accepted" crap. (translation: she was weirded out by me treating her too nicely, so she went with someone who kept her in a cage.) I mean, an intelligent man in the States has few options as it is for a girlfriend.... now i may never know love again thanks to that idiot and Candi's uncle.

That is when i swore vengeance. Call it hate speech, but honor and the dark times we live in demand such. For you see, its all well to think of what's good, but almost no one wants to talk about what is necessary whether it be percieved by others as good or bad. And with diminishing resources on this world, we may have to make some very grim decisions very soon.

Forgive me for all of this, but the anniversary of 9/11 always throws me off. When i saw that happening, i knew that it was indeed the beginning of the end. I would love for it to still be the world we had in 2000, where that which is considered good actually worked down here. But now, the darkness closes in around us, and thats why i have oft considered going into weapons design instead of ChemE.

No one with enough power to make it happen seems to want alternate fuels, but they sure seem to want Armageddon. I frankly dont want to do it, but im sure ill be forced to anyway in a few years as they round up the scientists....

I plan on sabotaging their designs for as long as i can, because nothing says "our prototype went up in a giant flaming fart" like a malfunctioning Octane drone.

As a scholar and someone who has been published professionally on this very topic, I'd like to add my two cents.

The short version is this - if a Jew (Joe Lieberman) cost Al Gore the 2000 election, there is no way that this country is ready to accept a black man as their leader. I love Obama's politics, and think he's the best candidate out there, but, realistically, I dont think he can win, nor are the majority of the uneducated masses out there ready for him to lead. It's unfortunate, and sad, but a truth of racial bias in the United States.

I dont think Lieberman's religion cost the election. Florida did.

Nothing to do with Jews unless you count the old Jewish man in Palm Beach trying to figure out the butterfly ballot and essentially being forced to vote for Bush.

IMHO, there are too many redneck voters in America to ever see a black President or a woman President.

How else do you explain how G.W. Bush came into office? Ignorance is truly bliss for many.

RodimusPrime11 wrote:As a scholar and someone who has been published professionally on this very topic, I'd like to add my two cents.

The short version is this - if a Jew (Joe Lieberman) cost Al Gore the 2000 election, there is no way that this country is ready to accept a black man as their leader. I love Obama's politics, and think he's the best candidate out there, but, realistically, I dont think he can win, nor are the majority of the uneducated masses out there ready for him to lead. It's unfortunate, and sad, but a truth of racial bias in the United States.

Looks like you were wrong. A lot changed since we all made this thread, no? Like my choice for President.

Yes people, this redneck voted for Obama.