The Energon Pub

I'm just not sure why everyone is so damn attached to Arcee. I mean give me a break... there were a total of like three females in the G1 cartoon. She wasn't even in the cartoon until later anyway.

I'm not necessarily opposed to Arcee.... and obviously the people doing TF #1 didn't either. Supposedly she almost made it into the film right????

But does someone want to throw me some ideas on how "female" transformers work? It sounds like another "oh **** how do we make this work" concept. I'm looking for TF knowledge. Any ideas???

This post is major flame bait...

How do female Transformers "work"??

Um, offhand, I'd say, they "work" just about the same as male Transformers. A Transformer is deemed female if they exhibit more feminine qualities than masculine ones. They're kinda like humans in that respect. As anyone who's taken high school Biology can tell you, genitalia are not the only thing that defines gender.

Then why is Arcee considered female?

being a soldier isn't feminine

Original Sin wrote:Then why is Arcee considered female?

being a soldier isn't feminine

Being a solder is not a statement of sexuality,its a job.
Some people won't admit it but there are some jobs in the military
that women do better then men.Besides, chicks in uniform are hot!

if theres one thing better than chicks or guns,its
chicks AND guns.Togehter!

Personally, I'm not really into female TFs, and I think the name "Arcee" is really awful, but keep in mind that there are female fans out there that like seeing female TFs, and hell, even a bunch of guys.

Mattamus Prime wrote:I'm just not sure why everyone is so damn attached to Arcee. I mean give me a break... there were a total of like three females in the G1 cartoon. She wasn't even in the cartoon until later anyway.

I'm not necessarily opposed to Arcee.... and obviously the people doing TF #1 didn't either. Supposedly she almost made it into the film right????

But does someone want to throw me some ideas on how "female" transformers work? It sounds like another "oh **** how do we make this work" concept. I'm looking for TF knowledge. Any ideas???

There were more then 3 female Transformers in the U.S. G1 toon...

In the episode "The Serch for Alphatrion" we see Chromia, Firestar, Moonracer and Elita One....there ware also quite a few un-named female autobots at their base.

We meet Arcee in the movie and she remained threw season's 3&4

In the episode "Forever Is a Long Time Coming" we meet Beta who is most likely A-3's [Alphatrion] counterpart.

There were a few female Junkions in the episode "The Big Broadcast of 2006".

There was also the Paradron medic [a green and white arcee] from the episode "Fight or Flee".

And if you like we could go into the Japanese G1 toon and bring up Minerva.....but I wont go any further.

No autobot females, I don't wanna see a Transformer titie nor I wanna hear Rachet saying that Ironhode's spark hormones suggest that he wants to mate with the female autobot.

If you can buy alien robots talking and acting masculine, you can buy alien robots talking and acting feminine. TFs capable of romantic feelings is a whole different matter, however.
A species that reproduces a-sexually has no need for physical attraction to the other sex (or gender in the TFs case). It is however perfectly plausible for these intelligent beings to develop emotional attachment towards certain other TFs. They are capable of fraternal love and comradery, so it's not a big leap from there.

Most of the people opposed to female transformers

1) See nothing wrong with male transformers (hypocrites)
2) Feel threatened by the idea of Female robots.
3) Don't realize the first robot EVER filmed was female.
4) Dont realize the second robot ever filmed was female.
5) Have Gender ID issues.
6) Can't or wont understand that female is a mental thing.
7) Need to grow up and stop thinking a female bot "HAS" to look female.
Need to read this page. And yes Wiki is valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynoid



with that said, I don't mind female transformers, as long as they arent the cliched bad ass or weakling. Just give me a well written gynoid, with good dialogue and a modicrum of development.

but I realize trying to be rational with some people doesnt work.

PS: Being an Ex-soldier I do know that females make better combat pilots than guys. But we rock in melee situations.. if we can fight at all that is. ^^

Tazirai wrote:Most of the people opposed to female transformers

1) See nothing wrong with male transformers (hypocrites)
2) Feel threatened by the idea of Female robots.
3) Don't realize the first robot EVER filmed was female.
4) Dont realize the second robot ever filmed was female.
5) Have Gender ID issues.
6) Can't or wont understand that female is a mental thing.
7) Need to grow up and stop thinking a female bot "HAS" to look female.

Tazirai, you rock. I love how you put it. Some much truth there.

Tazirai wrote:Most of the people opposed to female transformers

1) See nothing wrong with male transformers (hypocrites)
2) Feel threatened by the idea of Female robots.
3) Don't realize the first robot EVER filmed was female.
4) Dont realize the second robot ever filmed was female.
5) Have Gender ID issues.
6) Can't or wont understand that female is a mental thing.
7) Need to grow up and stop thinking a female bot "HAS" to look female.
Need to read this page. And yes Wiki is valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynoid



with that said, I don't mind female transformers, as long as they arent the cliched bad ass or weakling. Just give me a well written gynoid, with good dialogue and a modicrum of development.

but I realize trying to be rational with some people doesnt work.

PS: Being an Ex-soldier I do know that females make better combat pilots than guys. But we rock in melee situations.. if we can fight at all that is. ^^

To be fair Der Maschinian-Mensch or Maria from the movie Metropolis was a Android not a Robot.She was built by a mad scientist to stand in for his long-lost love and in an attempt for revenge.

I think they should take out the pink though if they use her. She can still be a chic without the frickin pink. Make her light blue or something less "pussy!" No Pink in TF #2!!!

I'm not opposed to her in #2. Just thinking to myself,"how the hell does that work." Others will think it too once a female transformer is introduced. Someone somewhere has to figure it out for a book to be published down the road or something. How the hell do tf's have little baby transformers? Do they grow up to be big transformers. What the hell???

Anyone got any ideas???

Are they like dragons, where one male sweeps over vertilizing hundreds of eggs?

Anyone take transformer sex ed in 5th grade??? I skipped it.

How are they gonna make this work?

This is why I liked their origins in the original cartoon, personally... having them be "consumer goods" nicely explains away a lot of weirdnesses.

But, personally I don't see a problem with it, either. If we can presume to anthromorphize "male" traits onto Transformers, I don't really see why assigning "female" ones is so weird. It's a human projection onto a sexless race, anyway.

Okay I get it...

the first robot was female... I don't give a rats ass about Metropolis. This is transformers... I just want to know how they MIGHT... be able to make the "CONCEPT" work. It's a tough one!

And thank god I'm out of college so I don't ever have to watch Metropolis for another film class again. I understand it's impact but F***!!! That **** is so boring when you've got a hangover from some party the night before and you have to watch that **** at 9:00 AM. I'll make sure to be really ... REALLY frickin high... or I'll be sure to eat a **** load of boomers first if I ever have to watch that old ass movie again.

And yes... it's Japanese Anime... make her look female... at least a little. I'm not saying she needs to have some big ol titties and a skimpy outfit... just make her face look "less" like the Metropolis chic and more female... "it's all in the eyes."

Most people who are anti female bots remind me of the people who wined
about starbuck and boomer being women in the BSG re-make.
Nobody is going to make a franchise appeal to just one group
of whiners who are afraid to see females doing something else than needing rescuing.And for all this talk about femme bots, I don't see too many people being offended by all the TF slash/smut on the internets

Mattamus Prime wrote:Okay I get it...

the first robot was female... I don't give a rats ass about Metropolis. This is transformers... I just want to know how they MIGHT... be able to make the "CONCEPT" work. It's a tough one!

And thank god I'm out of college so I don't ever have to watch Metropolis for another film class again. I understand it's impact but F***!!! That **** is so boring when you've got a hangover from some party the night before and you have to watch that **** at 9:00 AM. I'll make sure to be really ... REALLY frickin high... or I'll be sure to eat a **** load of boomers first if I ever have to watch that old ass movie again.

And yes... it's Japanese Anime... make her look female... at least a little. I'm not saying she needs to have some big ol titties and a skimpy outfit... just make her face look "less" like the Metropolis chic and more female... "it's all in the eyes."

I can make it work easily enough. It takes imagination. I guess that's why people with imagination are writers.

Here we go.. Im freestyle writing this as a type.

After the call goes out to the surviving Autobots. they arrive over the next 2 years in small waves. Sometimes one, sometimes two, sometimes squads of autobots, who've found each other among the stars.
This day however a solo comet crashed to earth. Landing close to where Optimus sent his signal. The Protoform landing in the blast strewn clearing. It could tell that many of it's kind had landed here by the marks into the ground.

As it transformed into it's robot mode, it looked for signs of the other autobots. In the meantime it scanned Earths internet for relevant data on the planet. Needing a vehicle mode for this world it waited for something to present itself. By the time it did, The Autobot figured out which role it would take on the earth.

Now we place this in the movie context.

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 Scene Description:
The comet landed in the same location as many others.
Bumble Bee and Ultramagnus, rolled to the spot and transformed  to welcome the new arrival. Along with Mikaela and Sam. Close but not that close to a highway. New arrivals could pick from an array of vehicles.

Bumble Bee : Earth year 2009 Honda Accord, Nice mode.
Ultra Magnus: Welcome to the Earth, I am Ultramagnus You are?
Mikaela: Lovin' that pearl white. (Smirking slightly)
Sam: It is pretty nice lookin.
Siren : I am Siren and thank you.
Mikaela: (In shock) WHOA! WHOA! You sound like a girl. Didn't know you guys had chick bots.
Mikaela: Wait, why DO you guys have chick bots?
--Insert lame michael bay style joke.

Siren: On cybertron I was communications and first contact specialist. I chose this form to better communicate, with Earth natives. As females of your species seem open to communicate more than the males.

Mikaela: (Looks at Sam and crosses her arms)
Sam: What?
Ultra Magnus: Come Siren we have need of your unique talents. Prime will want to meet you.
Siren: THE Optimus Prime? Oh I'd be honored.

All Transform.... Mikalea Rides in Siren. Looks dissaprovingly at Sam.
Sam: What? What did I do?

EDIT: This scene would literally take less than 30 Seconds of dialogue. But 1-2 minutes of effects time.

Siren???????????


Okay, that scene, for the most part, would work.


And the existing model they have for the character already would be fine. As for pink, they f'ed up so many other color schemes. Maybe this time they can change for the better. White, red, hell why not blue?

A bit off topic, but inmy personal TF Universe, Black Ararachnia is Soundwave's girlfriend.

The Movie Arcee is a nice dark pink/purple. Very feminine but not girly. Black/gold, like that cool upcoming repaint might be a cool homage to the fact she was supposed to be in Ironhide's place. She and Ironhide could form a brother/sister type bond as companions in the war.

I have nothing against female transformers, but with the way how they made their origins, it just leaves too many questions, and questions that the creative team will again do a half-assed no thought answers to. As someone already stated, with the G1 concept of consumer and military bots that made alot more sense if you want to have female bots ... look at the robots in Japan, they have female-esque characteristics based on the role they are in (not trying to be sexist either). But with the Allspark creating the robots it opens up a whole lot of questions when you get into the gender issue ...

- Is the cube conscious?
- Does it understand the concept of Gender?
- Are gender associated colors universal, with Arcee being a shade of pink?
- Does it randomly assign gender
- Why would it assign gender if they don't need it for pleasure or to reproduce?
- With Bumblebee dispensing fluid from where he did, would Arcee have to squat to do the same, obviously they wanted it to look like he was peeing from some sort of robot penis

I'm sure you can fill in the ones I missed

syphonn wrote:I have nothing against female transformers, but with the way how they made their origins, it just leaves too many questions, and questions that the creative team will again do a half-assed no thought answers to. As someone already stated, with the G1 concept of consumer and military bots that made alot more sense if you want to have female bots ... look at the robots in Japan, they have female-esque characteristics based on the role they are in (not trying to be sexist either). But with the Allspark creating the robots it opens up a whole lot of questions when you get into the gender issue ...

- Is the cube conscious?
- Does it understand the concept of Gender?
- Are gender associated colors universal, with Arcee being a shade of pink?
- Does it randomly assign gender
- Why would it assign gender if they don't need it for pleasure or to reproduce?
- With Bumblebee dispensing fluid from where he did, would Arcee have to squat to do the same, obviously they wanted it to look like he was peeing from some sort of robot penis

I'm sure you can fill in the ones I missed

-In a degree yes. the cube would represent the physical conciousness of Primus.
-yes, I believe that every creator would.
- No those colors are forced on kids ONLY during our current day and age. In ye old days, people wore what they wore.
- I would think so. I'm lead to believe transformers have a shell personality program. That once they are "walking and about, they influence it based on role. They develop personality from experiences.
- Theres a Lizard in the galapogos islands that is literally male AND female. When removed from each other, "males will turn into fully functional females, and vice versa. so in other words it just happens. One of those Creators only need to know why things.

-That was lame Michael bay style joke.

Original Sin wrote:Then why is Arcee considered female?

being a soldier isn't feminine

Wow thats a backwards statement.....

Now for a Decepticon Scene.


Scene Description:
A Protoform stands atop the building. Glowering over the city scape. It knows that the Autobots have allied with the humans. Soundwave has instructions to form that same bond. If it could work for the autobots, why not the Decepticons.

For 3 days, Mario Butler felt eyes on him, but could not explain it. He felt the need to
Do something. Be something bigger, also to get back at that jerk freddie.
What else but to trash Freddies Bike. But he couldnt just yet, His bosses wouldn't take to him, doing something petty to their rivals. But mario was petty, He wouldnt trash the bike. He'd just steal it.

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Mario: F%$k you Freddie. You'll never see this again. After a quick paint job and new tires, I wont even recognize it.

(Startles at a rustle in the trees)
Mario: What tha...? COME OUT whoever you are. (Standing waving a pistol)
Voice: Do not fear Mario, Freddie deserves everything you are giving him.
Mario: Lady I swear... Hey..how do you know Freddi? and who tha f%$k are you?

(Mario retreats backwards and trips over the bike as tall mechanoid moves towards him)
Mario: ..oh no..Please.. i ..I..
Robot: (Moving towards Mario Then Kneeling and holding his chin gently.)
           I know all about you.. and Freddie to. I know of your rivalry.
Robot: I will help you Mario Butler of Tavern court.. But first we need to get Freddie.
Mario( Still in shock and fear. Swears he sees the robot smile.)
The Protoform then Scans the bike and Changes shape..color..
Robot: I will need a name Mario Butler...If you please.
Mario: A .. a name..? name... (looks at the Bike) Katana...do you..?
Katana: Katana.. yes That will work. Now take Freddies..bike. I will be here waiting for him. Tomorrow he will have ... an accident. And then I will be yours.

The words were robotic.. yet feminine, calming, and hypnotizing. "She" stood and lifted the bike for him.
Mario: Tomorrow?
Katana: Tomorrow. (She said before Transforming into a likeness of Freddies bike.)


As Mario rides off he can't believe what just happened. Here he is riding off with Freddies bike. Yet Freddies bike is back in Freddies driveway. That sweet robot voice.. soothed him.. yet something made him afraid at the same time.

Freddie Opens the curtains in a flush hearign the sound of a Motorcycle in the distance. But as he looks outside, his bike is in the driveway. He doesnt realize yet what will happen to him.

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Katana: Primitives..ugh!.

The Decepticon Scene would be slightly longer at 3 minutes, but Understandable. Since she would be deceiving him.

Due to confusion with continuities and series, I've added a disclaimer to my long-winded posts.... for the few who may read these in the future:

Disclaimer:I probably should have clarified that my theories/posts do not refer to previous Transformers fandom, especially G1. It's a kiddy cartoon show created by a company that wanted to sell toys. The aren't out to create some sort of in-depth psychoanalytical television program. Since little kids can relate to the concept of separate males and females then the show would represent that because, quite frankly, it's the easiest thing to do.... or they just didn't want to be so creative.

***************************

Ha ha. Have fun reading this!!

Mattamus Prime wrote:I'm not necessarily opposed to Arcee.... and obviously the people doing TF #1 didn't either. Supposedly she almost made it into the film right????

- Apparently they wrote her into the script at one point, but the fans were not to keen on the idea so they took her out and replaced her with Ironhide. Personally, I think that was a good move and I like how Ironhide's character appeared on screen anyways. It was a good choice.

Tazirai, I really do like the story concepts that you are coming up with. I think it shows that "female" type transformers could be possible. It also shows that what is going on in the Transformers universe is a uniquely and completely different concept than what has previously been seen in other realms of science fiction and fantasy.

I think the major problem going on here is that people can't decide how, or if, they/we want Transformers to be able to develop the kind of attachments that are so prevalent in biological humanoid species. As humans in real life we naturally develop feelings of attachment in order to find mates. It's not a coincidence that predominantly all science fiction/fantasy species are humanoid beings with similar human characteristics.

People write with what they know and it makes sense that biological species similar to humans would find ways to create some form of attachment to find mates. Granted, with these fictionalized alien species different cultures are created so the way these aliens species form relationships may be vastly different, but the idea is the same: in the end, they form an attachment.

Okay, granted, there are some exceptions to the rule and the most common is through the course of asexual reproduction. Sadly, the only example I come up with is the namek alien species in Dragonball Z where every individual is of one gender that took on male qualities. (They somehow created offspring by coughing up an egg.) However, this concept is not a completely alien one to us because there are oragnisms that asexually reproduce on our planet.

So for the most part, or from what I know, anything that we have seen created so far is based on two forms of reproduction that we have in our cultures. We can easily recognize this concept so that is why it is always present.

Then came Transformers....

I could be wrong here, so if anyone has input on this PLEASE LET ME KNOW, but as far as I know Transformers is the first major example of an entire race of beings that are not actual biological beings. What we have here is a completely new concept in the fantasy realm, a radically new idea that, in turn, needs a radical new approach to some of the current standards.

If we accept this as fact then we must accept that normal ideas/concepts that are standard for biological beings will NOT be normal for an alien species that is NOT biological in nature. How does this idea relate to transformers?

Take our current issue at hand. It is pretty much accepted amongst the Transformers community that our beloved cybertronians do not reproduce like biological beings. To put it bluntly: NO SEX. Or, at least not in the way that we humans would understand it. In any case if you can accept this than you can accept the fact then there is no need for different transformers to develop deep relationships or feelings for one another because there would not be two distinctly different genders.

"But then doesn't that mean that there would be no fem bots?"
"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

With no genders to differentiate then any variations in colors, voice, mannerisms, size, etc would just be considered a unique trait of that transformer. So, for instance, if we humans saw an autobot with a pastel color and a high voice we might label as a female, but fellow autobots and decepticons would not because there is no such concept in their genderless culture.

Or there is another concept, that which Tazirai came up with.

In his posts he came up with the idea that Transformers could change their voice (and possibly mannerisms?) in order to better communicate with the new species, humans, that they are now living with. So the transformer Arcee comes to the conclusion that since "female humans" seem to communicate better then their "male human" counter parts then, as a communications officer, she would reflect that notion when coming to live and interact on Earth. At least, that is what I got out of it. Man, I can hear the fan boys cry foul on that one.

I don't know why I discuss this. I don't think Micheal Bay has the creative cognitive faculties to incorporate such an idea.... but it's fun none the less.

Arcee for Transformers 2!!! Woooot!!