The Energon Pub

Uh, Simon Furman is the most prolific Transformers writer alive. I can't believe there are people out there who don't know who he is. Furman's written a majority of comics, etc, and come up with a lot of the concepts that are used in Transformers today. And don't tell me not to be "Crude." I have my way of expressing myself, just like you have yours.

And Astrotrain87, the difference is that Arcee was a token effort. Sideswipe and Sunstreaker were not. I mean, if you're Hasbro, who are you gonna market to? Female Transformers haven't sold too well in the past, at least not where I come from anyways. Boys don't want to play with female Transformers. Girls do, women do, adult males do as collectors, but young boys don't. And that's Hasbro's general target audience.

Damolisher wrote:Uh, Simon Furman is the most prolific Transformers writer alive. I can't believe there are people out there who don't know who he is. Furman's written a majority of comics, etc, and come up with a lot of the concepts that are used in Transformers today. And don't tell me not to be "Crude." I have my way of expressing myself, just like you have yours.

Fine, not crude. Just rude.
Besides, I've never had the chance to read the comics.
As a jobless, seventeen years old, fulltime highschool jounior, I don't have the time or cash to go out searching for every little bit of Transformer's merchandise.
I have very few personal friends who like Transformers so I can't borrow stuff from them. And I'm not going to beg my mom for stuff all the freakin' time.

Astrotrain87 wrote:

Lycantendencies wrote:This is all paranoid garbage.

Nice counter point *major sarcasm*

par·a·noi·a Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[par-uh-noi-uh]

2.baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.

Unless you have some kind of evidence that "most" people who dislike Arcee really just don't like girls in their boys only club, that most Americans supporting the Iraq war hate Islamic people or that most who criticise Isreal are anti semitic, then your claim is both baseless and excessive.

Maybe you thought paranoid was one of those "nasty" things I say, but it wasn't, I just used the word in a dictionary accurate way, with no malice intended at all.

Astrotrain87 wrote:
Your talking about a group of people who bash a country that is under constant war.Bad things happen in war.Theres never a conflict in human history where bad things DONT happen.The side that denounce Isreal mostly seems to have no problem with terrorists murdering civilians and torturing prisoners.Its a logial conclusion.

No, it is a prejudiced conclusion.

For a start, one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
No one wants terrorists, but they will, if they believe the organisation is fighting for something, support them.
Kinda how Americans attack Al Queda, whilsty funding IRA bombs that killed English kids because they see the Irish as repressed.

Secondly, countries like the US, UK, Isreal have the power and with that the responsibility.
We're not supposed to act like the terrorists, we're not supposed to break more international laws than "rogue states" or refuse access to UN inspectors.

If we do, as Isreal does, we are no different to terrorists.

Astrotrain87 wrote:On every theard I've seen you post on,you argue and insist your idea is right until the other side gives up trying to talk with you.

Lesse. I have recently posted in 3 threads.

The first was the Animated thread.

There I insisted that the Animated designs were not childish.
I didn't attack those that didn't like that didn't like them, just those that insisted a style ofr art wa smeant for children only.
I backed this up by showing other figures, statues etc, some that were adult only, done in this style.

So yeah, I insisted that was right based on evidence.
No one actually provided any evidence contrary to that.
Oh, and the I don't was in response to someone saying everyone hates these designs, or something along those lines.
The poster claimed to speak for all of us, so I posted that it was not the case.
That's not bait, that's making clear a poster who claims to speak for all is not speaking for me.

Then there was the "Transformers is deep for some" argument.
I backed this up by presenting the comic as an exampe of it being deeper than the show.
The soul reason was to prove that Transformers was actually deeper that the show in other official canons, and that fans who wanted that were basing their desire on what the franchise HAS delivered, not, as some claimed, due to delusions of a TF that never existed.

So again, yeah, I spoke like I was right, and no one actually proved that the cartoon was as deep as it got because it wasn't.
In fact, none even tried, they just insisted what they watched was all there ever was to it and throw insults.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Don't put words in my mouth.I never called your opinons garbage.

Read what I say, not what you think I say.

You said in relation to Arcee and Iraq, say one thing but mean another, justifications for hatred.
Those justifications are things they don't believe, just crap that spurts out of their mouth to hide their true beliefs.

In other words garbage.

By refusing to believe their beliefs are what they say and insisting they really mean something else, you are writing off "most people's" opinions as garbage.

Briestron wrote:

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

That seems like the biggest piece of bull*crap* I have ever heard.

Actually, it's correct. Read up and learn about sexism and what it means. Start with positive discrimination. These things are all included.

Siren Prime wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Uh, Simon Furman is the most prolific Transformers writer alive. I can't believe there are people out there who don't know who he is. Furman's written a majority of comics, etc, and come up with a lot of the concepts that are used in Transformers today. And don't tell me not to be "Crude." I have my way of expressing myself, just like you have yours.

Fine, not crude. Just rude.
Besides, I've never had the chance to read the comics.
As a jobless, seventeen years old, fulltime highschool jounior, I don't have the time or cash to go out searching for every little bit of Transformer's merchandise.
I have very few personal friends who like Transformers so I can't borrow stuff from them. And I'm not going to beg my mom for stuff all the freakin' time.

Once again, it's not rude, it's my way of expressing myself. I live in a town full of stupid people, and I work at KFC, so I have a short fuse. You'd be angry if you had to deal with some of the knuckle-dragging meatsacks I have to put up with. But nah, like, ask for some comics for Christmas or somethin'. Just look up facts on the Transformers wiki, Transformers.wikia.com, and there's a lot of information there.

Lycantendencies wrote:

Astrotrain87 wrote:

Lycantendencies wrote:This is all paranoid garbage.

Nice counter point *major sarcasm*

par·a·noi·a Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[par-uh-noi-uh]

2.baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.

Unless you have some kind of evidence that "most" people who dislike Arcee really just don't like girls in their boys only club, that most Americans supporting the Iraq war hate Islamic people or that most who criticise Isreal are anti semitic, then your claim is both baseless and excessive.

Maybe you thought paranoid was one of those "nasty" things I say, but it wasn't, I just used the word in a dictionary accurate way, with no malice intended at all.

Astrotrain87 wrote:
Your talking about a group of people who bash a country that is under constant war.Bad things happen in war.Theres never a conflict in human history where bad things DONT happen.The side that denounce Isreal mostly seems to have no problem with terrorists murdering civilians and torturing prisoners.Its a logial conclusion.

No, it is a prejudiced conclusion.

For a start, one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
No one wants terrorists, but they will, if they believe the organisation is fighting for something, support them.
Kinda how Americans attack Al Queda, whilsty funding IRA bombs that killed English kids because they see the Irish as repressed.

Secondly, countries like the US, UK, Isreal have the power and with that the responsibility.
We're not supposed to act like the terrorists, we're not supposed to break more international laws than "rogue states" or refuse access to UN inspectors.

If we do, as Isreal does, we are no different to terrorists.

Astrotrain87 wrote:On every theard I've seen you post on,you argue and insist your idea is right until the other side gives up trying to talk with you.

Lesse. I have recently posted in 3 threads.

The first was the Animated thread.

There I insisted that the Animated designs were not childish.
I didn't attack those that didn't like that didn't like them, just those that insisted a style ofr art wa smeant for children only.
I backed this up by showing other figures, statues etc, some that were adult only, done in this style.

So yeah, I insisted that was right based on evidence.
No one actually provided any evidence contrary to that.
Oh, and the I don't was in response to someone saying everyone hates these designs, or something along those lines.
The poster claimed to speak for all of us, so I posted that it was not the case.
That's not bait, that's making clear a poster who claims to speak for all is not speaking for me.

Then there was the "Transformers is deep for some" argument.
I backed this up by presenting the comic as an exampe of it being deeper than the show.
The soul reason was to prove that Transformers was actually deeper that the show in other official canons, and that fans who wanted that were basing their desire on what the franchise HAS delivered, not, as some claimed, due to delusions of a TF that never existed.

So again, yeah, I spoke like I was right, and no one actually proved that the cartoon was as deep as it got because it wasn't.
In fact, none even tried, they just insisted what they watched was all there ever was to it and throw insults.

Astrotrain87 wrote:Don't put words in my mouth.I never called your opinons garbage.

Read what I say, not what you think I say.

You said in relation to Arcee and Iraq, say one thing but mean another, justifications for hatred.
Those justifications are things they don't believe, just crap that spurts out of their mouth to hide their true beliefs.

In other words garbage.

By refusing to believe their beliefs are what they say and insisting they really mean something else, you are writing off "most people's" opinions as garbage.

Briestron wrote:

Sexism is about more than negative discrimination.
It's about attatching traits and limiting people by them (like male and female personalities), or demanding a stereotype, even if that stereotype is well intentioned, and it's about not caring how realistically a sex is portrayed as long as it's portrayed.

That seems like the biggest piece of bull*crap* I have ever heard.

Actually, it's correct. Read up and learn about sexism and what it means. Start with positive discrimination. These things are all included.

You are a very depressing person.In only 3 theads you've managed to troll them all acting like a complete ass and still cry victim and whine when people get fed up with you.
You just empose your opinion with a heap of non-sence every time while trying to force your thoughts down people's throats.
If you can't use these forums knowing others don't think like you and won't then leave.

and before you call depraved terrorists who try to ransom the body parts of there victims "freedom fighters" remember your lucky enough not live in a war torn country and risk being murdered waiting for a bus or going shoping.Not only are anti zoinist anti semitic,They prefer chaos to order in the form of wanting to destroy the only civilized nation in the midde east.

If I have to a waring for this I'll take it but some one had to tell this user something

Astrotrain87 wrote:You are a very depressing person.In only 3 theads you've managed to troll them all acting like a complete ass and still cry victim and whine when people get fed up with you.

In all 3 threads, I have discussed the issues and provided evidence to back up my claims.

That's not trolling.

The constant personal attacks is trolling.
Calling people's opinions nonsense is trolling too, imo.

I have done neither.

Astrotrain87 wrote:If you can't use these forums knowing others don't think like you and won't then leave.

I don't come to the forums to make friends. I come to discuss Transformers.
Whether people like me or not is irrelevent.

It's very simple. If you do not like me, or my opinions, ignore them.
I myself would much rather discuss this with people who actually discuss my points as opposed to responding to them whining about my posting style, calling me names etc.

Astrotrain87 wrote:and before you call depraved terrorists who try to ransom the body parts of there victims "freedom fighters" remember your lucky enough not live in a war torn country and risk being murdered waiting for a bus or going shoping.

Why do you think I mentioned the IRA?

I don't live in a war torn country, but living in the UK, I was caught up in a terrorist bomb.
A bomb used by a terrorist organisation funded by Americans.
Even since 9/11, some of these Americans still consider them freedom fighters as opposed to terrorists and continued to fund them.
I could list a thousand horrific things the IRA did, but people will still see a country invaded and think the terorists are justified, if not in means, then by motive.

That's how points of view work.

Should I now claim that all Americans who support the IRA don't really syympathise with an occupied country (technically), but are all really anti English?

As I said, many of those I know who have been crtiical of Isreal are Jewish.
This is because they have seen the Isreali government, not people, government, commit some very heinous acts, and whilst the palestinian terorists aren't justified in means, they understand the motives and sympathise.

And with some having been victims of anti semitism, they also don't like the fact that almost every single criticism against Isreal and it's goverment is met with claims of that to distract from actually responding to the allegations themselves.

Of course, this was supposed to be about fembots, so I won't say any more on the matter, nor will I respond to any more comments about me personally.
It's boring.

So if everyone can abandon their drama shoes, back to Arcee...

This thread makes me feel bad to be a girl that likes Transformers, I know it shouldn't, but sometimes I feel alienated. Or I get stereotype as a crazy person because I like Starscream. Anyway, I thought in Transformers, genders have nothing to do with falling in love, or destroying each other, it just happens.


I like Arcee, but I would like to know more about Elita-1, and the rest. Not just Arcee, everywhere.

So, I suppose since no one said anything, my theory is the epitomy of sucktitude?

Gojira Prime wrote:I have a therory along the lines of what Zombie Starscream said. The Allspark was created by a race of organic aliens that were so passionate about machines that they decided to create a whloe race of them. They made the Allspark with basic life function programming that it would give to all of it's creation. This included the random assigining of gender, as a failsafe (this may sound wrong to some of you, but I'm just trying to explain this) in case the Allspark were destroyed. That's my therory anyway, no one say things like "Ewwwwwww!" or "That's wrong" or "sicko"

That's a pretty good theory. It's like how Vector Sigma seemed to randomly assign personalities to the robots it progreammed.

Damolisher wrote:That's a pretty good theory. It's like how Vector Sigma seemed to randomly assign personalities to the robots it progreammed.

Yes it does make sense.

NightFall wrote:This thread makes me feel bad to be a girl that likes Transformers, I know it shouldn't, but sometimes I feel alienated.

There's no reason you should.

The point more than a few of us have made that some of the more melodramatic missed, is that we're not against females, we just need it to make sense.

For example, if the Allspark builds creatures that adapt to their surroundings, the remaining shard may give life to Transformers that imitate humans more and we get "male" and "female".

It gets lost when we argue over whether it does need explaining, females in other continuities etc, but it is how we feel.

No matter how much some insist otherwise, it's not about anti women.

Gojira Prime wrote:So, I suppose since no one said anything, my theory is the epitomy of sucktitude?

Gojira Prime wrote:I have a therory along the lines of what Zombie Starscream said. The Allspark was created by a race of organic aliens that were so passionate about machines that they decided to create a whloe race of them. They made the Allspark with basic life function programming that it would give to all of it's creation. This included the random assigining of gender, as a failsafe (this may sound wrong to some of you, but I'm just trying to explain this) in case the Allspark were destroyed. That's my therory anyway, no one say things like "Ewwwwwww!" or "That's wrong" or "sicko"

No it doesn't suck. The only downside to it, imo, is that I think the Allspark works better when we know nothing about it's origins.

Damolisher wrote:Boys don't want to play with female Transformers. Girls do, women do, adult males do as collectors, but young boys don't. And that's Hasbro's general target audience.

So they can sell those femme toys in a samller number.Have you heard of warhammer?Those pricy model tank/soldier kits?Well they sell some models made of resin of lesser known tanks/aircaft/ect. in smaller number with a bigger price tag.
They make money and people who want that shadowsword tank can get one.Why can't hasbro do the same?Its win win.

So we trying make sense on why females in Transformers? Well I can be with my girlfriends, but I crave males in the group for different interaction, conversations, something new, etc, ( get your head out of the gutter) maybe because of that notion, Females are in Transformers?

I don't know if I made any sense.

Oh I think female Transformers would sell like crazy, young collectors or not.

From what I've heard, they dont' sell like crazy at all. Hell, Arcee was a shelfwarmer here in my town back in Energon, and it's the same in a couple of other towns I've been to in terms of Movie Arcee.

I guess, well maybe older audiences want the toy or not, but I don't want a "barbie" take on Arcee or any other females. I wonder what was the best female toy in general, Spawn line comes to my head? Anyway, I would buy female Transformers if they look good, I don't like the movie motorcycle one.

Damolisher wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Uh, Simon Furman is the most prolific Transformers writer alive. I can't believe there are people out there who don't know who he is. Furman's written a majority of comics, etc, and come up with a lot of the concepts that are used in Transformers today. And don't tell me not to be "Crude." I have my way of expressing myself, just like you have yours.

Fine, not crude. Just rude.
Besides, I've never had the chance to read the comics.
As a jobless, seventeen years old, fulltime highschool jounior, I don't have the time or cash to go out searching for every little bit of Transformer's merchandise.
I have very few personal friends who like Transformers so I can't borrow stuff from them. And I'm not going to beg my mom for stuff all the freakin' time.

Once again, it's not rude, it's my way of expressing myself. I live in a town full of stupid people, and I work at KFC, so I have a short fuse. You'd be angry if you had to deal with some of the knuckle-dragging meatsacks I have to put up with. But nah, like, ask for some comics for Christmas or somethin'. Just look up facts on the Transformers wiki, Transformers.wikia.com, and there's a lot of information there.

Thanks for the advice.
And sorry for being pissy, but it just seems that people say all the time in here to respect others opinions, and then turn around and call them stupid or idiots because they have opposing ideas.
I try not to blow, but it's a real nerve grating situation...

Siren Prime wrote:

AxiomScion wrote:slapping pink on the small curvy Autobot along with feminine stereo types for personality seems like a disservice to women in general.

I don't think that Arcee is a stereotypical disservice.
So she's pink. Big deal.
Besides, she's got "masculine" (as some might say) traits to her as well. She's a soldier, a motorcycle, a robot. She's tough and fights for good. It sounds admirable to me.

It's not like she's wearing a sheet metal skirt and has steel wool pom-poms strapped to her hands.

Arcee is not a "stereotypical disservice" but her personality has not gone past a cluster of female stereotypes either. As i said before I think that is a disservice.

G1 Arcee: Intro'd as pink curvy Autobot based loosely on SW Princes Leia composite art. Mothers human cast Daniel and love interest of lead Autobot name Hotrod. Works very well with Springer. NOT a good shot. aftermovie Daniel gets permanently joined at the neck. In headmasters she makes a good secretary for Fortmax... secretary. Also flirts with Chromedome while Rodimus is away. Her non-animated portrails aren't much better with the UK comic likely the least degrading...

I'm hard pressed to call the term "soldier" a masculine trait among an entire alien civilization at war with itself, let alone "motorcycle" or "robot". Can you name an Autobot that isn't admirable, tough, or doesn't fight for good? Would you be opposed to a fem Decepticon?

Your right, Siren Prime, she's not wearing a skirt...

here is a little trivia about the admirable Arcee via the TF wiki

* When asked about Arcee's design in an interview, Floro Dery's reply was, "Arcee is the naked mechanical equivalent of Princess Leia of Star Wars."[2] Well, that answers that question . . . while raising a whole bunch of others.

* Arcee fires her gun twice in the original movie.

The first time, she tries to shoot a Decepticon in the back as they retreat the attack on Autobot City. She misses.
The second is inside Unicron, fighting his immune system. She tries to shoot a claw (missing again), and instead breaks open a giant container of water, separating Daniel from the Autobots.

* Arcee has the most romantic attachments of any Transformers character: Hot Rod in the G1 movie, Marvel Comics and Dreamwave continuity, Springer after the G1 movie, Chromedome in Headmasters, and Bumblebee in Devil's Due continuity. And then there is the weird affection shown toward Daniel in The Rebirth, Part 3, but most fans don't read too much into it.

I would go so far to say, gender issues aside, G1 toon Arcee was poorly developed, less effective soldier, and served as a token character in the series. The other female TFs seemed far more interesting yet if memory serves only featured in a single episode. For flirty gimmic dialogue and no character developement, aside from Daniel stalking, G1 toon Arcee is a poor character regardless of gender.

Astrotrain87 wrote:And if you at the movies and and see Arcee but don't find out if or why they have sex,will that prevent you from enjoying the movie?Did blackarachnia and airrazor prevent you from watching beast wars?

blackarachnia and silverbolt are among 'a third generation' Rattrap's great aunt Arcee of TFs familiar and adoptive of earth/humanoid cultures. bay verse emplies Sam is the first humanoid contact the TFs have had. The 'sex jokes' in the movie adds further to the idea that genders are unfamiliar to there society. So if the second movie mentioned TFs having robosex, YES, it would bother me. As Beastwars had no silverbolt hiding his bone jokes in the series, NO, the two did not prevent me from watching and enjoying the show.

Tazirai wrote:with that said, I don't mind female transformers, as long as they arent the cliched bad@$$ or weakling. Just give me a well written gynoid, with good dialogue and a modicrum of development.

I concure with this. It's not that i'm anti Fembots, i'm just not pro G1 toon styled Arcee. The way bay is revamping characters I'm sure if she did get in she'ld be as different as movie and toon Jazz; maybe this time Bay pulls a winner...

side note: IMHO Black Aracnia was started off as the bad@$$ but given 'some development' over the series while Arcee was the weakling that's first toy was a convention repaint of the bad@$$.

I have to admit that I'm fighting for a character that I know very little about.
I really don't doubt that as a character in the cartoon, she's sucked. I'll bet almost as bad as Thunderblast from the Cybertron series (I HATE her).
But in the new movie continuity I think she'd be very cool.
What's to stop the writers from creating a much cooler and interesting Arcee?
(That's of course assuming that they actually focus on the Transformers this time...)

AxiomScion wrote::? If none of the fans can explain it, using gender, then how do we expect the screenwriter to?

Lol, why would it be up to us to explain something like that?

Damolisher wrote:...Once again, it's not rude, it's my way of expressing myself. I live in a town full of stupid people, and I work at KFC, so I have a short fuse. You'd be angry if you had to deal with some of the knuckle-dragging meatsacks I have to put up with...

So because you've had a bad day at the daily grind, we all get slammed?

Seriously people, chill out for a sec! There's no need to get so riled up. So you don't like Arcee - big deal. So you DO like Arcee - big deal. At the end of the day it's not our decision as to whether or not she'll be in the next film...

Personally, I kinda like the way Arcee has been portrayed in the comics, etc so far. <u>MY</u> early beef with Arcee was/is the same as my feeling on the early Supergirl, Batgirl, She-ra, Spider-woman, etc (but NOT Wonder Woman!!). Yes, over time these have become interesting, well fleshed out characters in their own rights - BUT I personally resisted on the basis that they felt like just a cheap "Me too!" gimmick. Characters such as Wonder Woman, although around at the same time, I felt were much better because they were independantly conceived, rather than being an attempt at extending a brandname's marketable audience.

But, as with the other characters mentioned earlier, its become a moot point - simply because the writers have had time to properly round out, or in some cases reinvent these characters, allowing them to move out of sidelines and become genuinely interesting characters in their own right.

So, I'm cool with Arcee.

I'm more curious to see how the writers explain the reason / role of seperate genders within a mechanical species that reproduces asexually, rather than being offended that they "let a Fem-bot into the Boy's Club".

Hell, I think, if handled properly, it could make for a pretty cool dynamic, and could perhaps even allow the writers to explore the issue "in world" (Ironhide: "But Prime - she's a GIRL!! We can't have a girl on the team! *grumbles* She's like, different and y'know...stuff")

Yeah, sure, "Copping it." Did you actually READ my posts? I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. (Note to self: NEVER use that emoticon again.)

But yeah, if Bay cangive us a female without making her manly, without making it Pink, and without making it a token effort, props to him. He's done something that hasn't been done in... ever. (Well, Blackaracnia was less of a token effort to start with than what she became. After Silverbolt came along, Blackarachnia= Token effort.) Seriously. The Autobots don't need slagging love interests, IMO. That's the problem, too. Every series, a female Transformer has been a love interest for somebody, or like, a female sterotype, like they're pink (Energon Arcee) or they're a valley girl (Thunderblast)

By the Gods, I'm gone for one week for the holidays and I come back to see this thread practically erupt into a flame war. I could barely even read through all the posts. Honestly, I skimmed most of them. I can't even honestly begin to comment a portion of what was talked about, though I will talk about this.

NightFall wrote:This thread makes me feel bad to be a girl that likes Transformers, I know it shouldn't, but sometimes I feel alienated. Or I get stereotype as a crazy person because I like Starscream. Anyway, I thought in Transformers, genders have nothing to do with falling in love, or destroying each other, it just happens.

As a girl who is a fan of various geek genres I know all about alienation. Being from a small midwestern town I was often "picked on" by the class jock for being a girl who was a bit "enthusiastic" about Star Wars. It wasn't part of the small town norm, and I didn't quite fit the mold and I was an easy target. I don't know why I preferred lightsabers over lipstick and when I was younger I did feel alienated and different. There were even Star Wars fans that alienated me for various reasons. Course I then developed a bit of an F-You attitude to my fellow classmates and have since met many people people (guys and girls) who share my various interests.

No one should ever make you feel ashamed about something that interests you. This applies to girls who like working on cars or guys who like to dance. It's a stigma that develops from years of forcing gender rules on a society. Many things have changed, but some mediums are harder than others, specifically the entertainment medium and this thread, sadly, reflects that.

I'm in the camp for No Genders in Bay's Universe (I would have to be blind to say that this applied to the 'toons and comics), but I would also be lying if I said that I did not want Arcee in the movie b/c she represents a strong "female type" character. As a female who is constantly having to put up with men portraying women as useless housewives, noisy reporters, or as overtly sexual objects (I'm looking at you Red Sonja, Wonder Woman, and the rest of those comic book creations. I like seeing one that breaks the mold. I get it! It's a industry geared towards guys and sex, cars, and explosions sell, but as a female fan it is quite intimidating and daunting.

As for the love interest thing (gag) studies reveal that in about 90% of movies there is always a side love interest story, and there always seems to be a love interest story in tv and cartoon shows. Seeing a familiar concept in the Transformers universe is not all that surprising, though cliche.

It's a sensitive issue. No one wants to be labeled as a sexist, but no one wants a bland female character either. It's a big issue that is not going to get solved here.

And Micheal Bay, making a big action movie, certainly isn't going to help this issue either.

I still maintain that in the Universe Bay created there is a possibility for no genders in the TF world, and that Arcee can be an made into an interesting character in the movie despite how she has been portrayed in the comics and such. And that is what I got. You may all commence with the arguing again.

Damolisher wrote:
But yeah, if Bay cangive us a female without making her manly, without making it Pink

I think we'd have to make Arcee pink. she's always pink(well she was that fugly blue color as an exclusive). its like how Bumblebee is always yellow(except in Armada, Perceptor's name was Bumble in Japan). But I don't want salmon, I want more of a hot pink, like on her toy.
and that's likely to be what she'd look like if she was in TF2. They've already made the toy pink.

I can't believe this thread is still active.

Yeah, surprised me too, actually.