The Energon Pub

CelticDragon wrote:

Shadowman wrote:
It's because Hasbro wanted them to look feminine. Arcee is supposed to look like a woman, women have wide hips, ergo, Arcee has wide hips. It's really that simple.

Being that simple doesn't mean it makes sense!

It's a series about giant robots that turn into cars and jets and random objects, none of it makes sense. Hell, the fact that they're humanoid doesn't make sense, do you have any idea the chances of an alien species actually resembling us?

CelticDragon wrote:In other science fiction, gender isn't taken for granted to mean "like humans do it" but has explored a wide range of other options.

Except for Star Trek and Star Wars, the two largest sci-fi franchises, which never go into the idea of alien sexuality outside of "hot green-skinned alien women."

CelticDragon wrote:I just think it's a shame that Transformers didn't. I know it's because the point was to sell toys aimed at boys but it feels like a missed opportunity to really take the characters to a different level.

Yeah, damn shame a kids show about giant robots having a war with each other didn't get into the idea of gender differences in regards to sexuality.

CelticDragon wrote:Seems like many of us are more imaginative than the writers and toy designers at Hasbro, Marvel, IDW, etc. If only they'd have asked me...

No, you're not being imaginative, you're just thinking of all the things that never really mattered to the story as a whole, nor did anyone particularly want. It's a war story, not a xenobiology class.

And fun fact, someone did a piece for Mosaic on this exact subject. If you're wondering why there's no comic on that link, it's because it's the only piece to be permanently removed from the Mosaic archives.

Shadowman wrote:
It's a series about giant robots that turn into cars and jets and random objects, none of it makes sense. Hell, the fact that they're humanoid doesn't make sense, do you have any idea the chances of an alien species actually resembling us?

Gosh, all aliens have to resemble humans and the basic humanoid shape. It's a rule somewhere that George Lucas made up. Or more likely it was made up by the special effects department back in the days before CGI.

Shadowman wrote:Except for Star Trek and Star Wars, the two largest sci-fi franchises, which never go into the idea of alien sexuality outside of "hot green-skinned alien women."

I guess my reading habits included a whole lot more than those 2.

Shadowman wrote:Yeah, damn shame a kids show about giant robots having a war with each other didn't get into the idea of gender differences in regards to sexuality.

Wow, every TV show and story has both male and female, even GI Joe. And yet, you assume that this story shouldn't attempt to address in any way that there are (on this planet) 2 genders and could be on their planet also?? Sounds a little ego-ccentric to me.

Shadowman wrote:No, you're not being imaginative, you're just thinking of all the things that never really mattered to the story as a whole, nor did anyone particularly want. It's a war story, not a xenobiology class

Oh right, I forgot the basic tenet of discussion on these boards, Shadowman is the majority and only opinion that counts. Silly me, I'll try to remember that next time I have an opinion and keep it to myself (the major reason I don't have many posts to my name anyway).

As for xenobiology class, yes it is. At least it is if you want to discuss what female Transformers would look like and have a reasonable excuse for why you'd like to see that. Of course, there's no excuse needed for the discussion, I just enjoy throwing those details in there (to annoy you, is it working yet?)

knightedfeline wrote:"With all of the Transformers out there, wouldn't, shouldn't it make sense to have more female? Wouldn't be cool to see them as something as more than a novelty? If you look at the psychology of a robot species doesn't it make sense for there to be just as many female as there are male, because the whole female perspective is very different from the male and helps with problem solving?"

War stories have females. Life has females. What does that have to do with anything?? It has to do with Transformers perhaps, if they even have females but since this thread is about the fact they don't have many and what we'd like to see if there were more included, I'm confused as to why you keep posting to begin with if you can't see the merit in female Transformers.

Shadowman wrote: And fun fact, someone did a piece for Mosaic on this exact subject. If you're wondering why there's no comic on that link, it's because it's the only piece to be permanently removed from the Mosaic archives.

And once again, I've missed your point here.

Okay, you really missed my point there:

They look female because Hasbro wanted them to look female. It doesn't make sense in-universe, but then the idea of giant robots that turn into a variety of vehicles and other objects makes no sense either. There's really no good reason to explore it any further than they have, it is not integral to the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. Powerglide boinking Moonracer doesn't get anyone anywhere, though it does get a Mosaic deleted...

Shadowman wrote:Okay, you really missed my point there:

They look female because Hasbro wanted them to look female. It doesn't make sense in-universe, but then the idea of giant robots that turn into a variety of vehicles and other objects makes no sense either. There's really no good reason to explore it any further than they have, it is not integral to the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. Powerglide boinking Moonracer doesn't get anyone anywhere, though it does get a Mosaic deleted...

It ALSO gets me to pee myself.

But! Shadowman is right.

RhA wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Okay, you really missed my point there:

They look female because Hasbro wanted them to look female. It doesn't make sense in-universe, but then the idea of giant robots that turn into a variety of vehicles and other objects makes no sense either. There's really no good reason to explore it any further than they have, it is not integral to the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. Powerglide boinking Moonracer doesn't get anyone anywhere, though it does get a Mosaic deleted...

It ALSO gets me to pee myself.

But! Shadowman is right.

You are really scary!

@ Shadowman: Of course it's not integral or even makes sense! But since this whole thread is about that topic, it's all about "what if" not "it is". I know they look female because Hasbro decided to do that and it makes them easier to relate to from a human child's perspective. (I'm ignoring the obviously senseless reasoning Hasbro used to have giant robots turn into vehicles and other objects and the equally senseless reasoning to have a handful of females with no purpose). But again, that's not the point of this thread.

The point of this thread (as I understood it, and that's dubious at best) is to explore other female character options and what those might be like.

Since it appears I've derailed the thread in a myriad of directions anyway, I'll stop now.

I think it makes a lot of sense for Transformers as a species to exist, if you look at it under certain circumstances. IF there is a world of autonomous robotic organisms transformation would be an extremely practical means of having combat. We as organics have got to armor up, and get into vehicles to commit war, but think of how much easier a robotic organism would have it. They just transform and they're ready for war. They transform and they're ready for police action.

Celtic Dragon was right that to have female transformers brings up a lot of questions that Hasbro never intended. I don't think it can be really helped. IF we are to discuss other types of female transformers we must address what the role of females must be in such organisms.
I would also like to hear more about the other types of science fiction life forms.
Please feel free to post more, because there are few that are willing to delve into further speculation without pulling Devil's Advocate or without personal agendas.

Shadowman was right when he added why they made Arcee, but I think he's either ignoring the questions this brings up, or is trying to be convinced as to why this is important.

-Kanrabat- is right also as to a means in which exploring how a Transformer is created. In all honesty we don't know. Hasbro has never explained how a transformer reproduces other than starting out with protoforms. Does a factory make protoforms? Is it the responsibility of a few to make them? I think it's a great way to look at a possibility.

We never get any answers as to where protoforms come from. I think that's also why Hasbro has let the fans ask the questions and answer them for themselves, because it also asks bigger questions if they actually answer. If Transformers reproduce from a partnered sexual aspect, then that means that somehow, someway they were either created by organics or were heavily influenced by them. It also begs the question to be asked, does it have to be male/male, female/female or male/female or all of the above to be answered. If they reproduce asexually, then it means that every transformer is born pregnant. The closest explanation we've ever gotten, was the Allspark creates them. As to why and how it does it, again, we don't know.

I admit there are a lot of elements that transformers leave out because it's a "kids" show, but in doing so, it come down to the fans to answer. I think this is one of the big problems with having a company behind any science fiction series. A single creator can sit there and think about these questions that a company doesn't have to.

Also the chances of there being a series of alien races similar in shape to humans, is pretty good. Out shape is very adaptable, capable of high dexterity and higher thinking. We're finding that the building blocks of organics follow very simple layouts that permit very complex actions. Biologically it is unlikely for there to be a six or eight limbed form, because the brain would have to be increases in several areas to allow for the control of greater motor functions. True, we don't know what all the environments for all the "inhabitable" planets would be, but we have to look at the most simple explanations for what defining what life can be and how it works. True we don't know what what life based on silicon or other elements would look like, but considering that life based on carbon is the most likely, due to the fact that carbon is one of the simplest molecules and most abundant, it is also that it is the most likely to create the most life. It is also likely, based on what we know about the structure of bodies, that a quad-limbed, bi-lateral symmetry is the most likely type of life due to how carbon structures at the molecular level. How human they look, or how what kind of animals they are based on in the environment we don't know. We also can't determine whether they will be part of an more advanced or less advanced evolutionary process. So humanoid shape is most likely in alien life forms, but not definitive. It could look a lot like a Dug (Star Wars) or Cthulu (Lovecraft). For robotic organisms, it's a matter of what's most practical and energy efficient for their needs.

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Didn't drop external. At least not recently. It was just corrupted.