The Energon Pub

Anyway, past the family issues, what kind of female characters would people like to see in Transformers? What kind of vehicles would they be? What kind of body types would they have?

Team Axiom (“Right Between the Eyes,” Garbage)(Autobot team)

Designation: Redshift
Class: Leader/Weaponsmith
Color scheme: Red (shades of)
Alternate Mode: Corvette
Function: Weapons Designer, Expert Fighter
Personality: Serious, romantic at spark, bold, duty-bound, assertive, honorable
Motto: All things should be equal
Theme Song: “No Regrets,” Sohodolls
Weapon: Splitting maul
Voice actress: Jennifer Hale

Designation: Flux
Class: Soldier/Cyber Warrior
Color scheme: Purple-lilac
Alternate mode: Versys motorcycle
Function: Cyber Samurai, Communications Officer
Personality: Industrious, patient, relaxed, dignified, decorous, reflective
Motto: The first enemy you must conquer is yourself
Theme Song:“What’s In the Middle?” the bird and the bee
Weapon: Cyber katana
Voice actress: Aisha Tyler

Designation: Voltage
Class: Medic/Spark support
Color scheme: Blue-green
Alternate mode: EMT vehicle
Function: Medical assistant, Nurse
Personality: Perceptive, courteous, self-controlled, judicious, accepting, honest
Motto: In the end, all I can do is my best
Theme Song: “Long Hard Road,” Sade
Weapon: Lancet
Voice actress: Hellena Taylor

Designation: Monomial
Class: Scientist/Metallurgist
Color scheme: Silver-white
Alternate mode: Prius
Function: Chemist,
Personality: Motherly, optimistic, talkative, creative, hides a violent dark side, brutal on the battlefield
Motto: The brighter the light, the darker the shadow
Theme Song: “Lose Control,” Evanescence
Weapon: Electroshock baton
Voice actress: Kim Mai Guest

Designation:Pulse
Class: Scout/Special Tactics Force
Color scheme: Orange-gold
Alternate mode: Camaro
Function: Espionage, Intelligence Analysis
Personality: Gregarious, determined, steadfast, fiercely independent, inappropriately blunt, guarded
Motto: Do what you will, but watch yourself.
Theme Song: “Daylight Robbery,” Imogen Heap
Weapon: Pistols
Voice actress: Jessie Flower

Designation: Lightning
Class: Engineer/Space Bridge Technician
Color scheme: Yellow (shades of)
Alternate mode: Kia Soul
Function: Mechanic, Operator
Personality: Plucky, energetic, girly-girl, lover of stories, flirtatious, appreciative
Motto: I don’t need a reason to lend my assistance
Theme Song: “The Show,” Lenka
Weapon: Wrench
Voice actress: Michelle Ruff

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Team Axiom (“Right Between the Eyes,” Garbage)(Autobot team)

Designation: Redshift
Class: Leader/Weaponsmith
Color scheme: Red (shades of)
Alternate Mode: Corvette
Function: Weapons Designer, Expert Fighter
Personality: Serious, romantic at spark, bold, duty-bound, assertive, honorable
Motto: All things should be equal
Theme Song: “No Regrets,” Sohodolls
Weapon: Splitting maul
Voice actress: Jennifer Hale

Designation: Flux
Class: Soldier/Cyber Warrior
Color scheme: Purple-lilac
Alternate mode: Versys motorcycle
Function: Cyber Samurai, Communications Officer
Personality: Industrious, patient, relaxed, dignified, decorous, reflective
Motto: The first enemy you must conquer is yourself
Theme Song: “What’s In the Middle?” the bird and the bee
Weapon: Cyber katana
Voice actress: Aisha Tyler

[u]Designation: Voltage
Class: Medic/Spark support
Color scheme: Blue-green
Alternate mode: EMT vehicle
Function: Medical assistant, Nurse
Personality: Perceptive, courteous, self-controlled, judicious, accepting, honest
Motto: In the end, all I can do is my best
Theme Song: “Long Hard Road,” Sade
Weapon: Lancet
Voice actress: Hellena Taylor

Designation: Monomial
Class: Scientist/Metallurgist
Color scheme: Silver-white
Alternate mode: Prius
Function: Chemist,
Personality: Motherly, optimistic, talkative, creative, hides a violent dark side, brutal on the battlefield
Motto: The brighter the light, the darker the shadow
Theme Song: “Lose Control,” Evanescence
Weapon: Electroshock baton
Voice actress: Kim Mai Guest

Designation: Pulse
Class: Scout/Special Tactics Force
Color scheme: Orange-gold
Alternate mode: Camaro
Function: Espionage, Intelligence Analysis
Personality: Gregarious, determined, steadfast, fiercely independent, inappropriately blunt, guarded
Motto: Do what you will, but watch yourself.
Theme Song: “Daylight Robbery,” Imogen Heap
Weapon: Pistols
Voice actress: Jessie Flower

Designation: Lightning
Class: Engineer/Space Bridge Technician
Color scheme: Yellow (shades of)
Alternate mode: Kia Soul
Function: Mechanic, Operator
Personality: Plucky, energetic, girly-girl, lover of stories, flirtatious, appreciative
Motto: I don’t need a reason to lend my assistance
Theme Song: “The Show,” Lenka
Weapon: Wrench
Voice actress: Michelle Ruff

Very cool. The choice of voice actresses really says a lot about the characters too. Though I do wonder about Guest. Wouldn't Cree Summer be a better choice?

knightedfeline wrote:

Avensis-Mahiya wrote:Team Axiom (“Right Between the Eyes,” Garbage)(Autobot team)

Designation: Redshift
Class: Leader/Weaponsmith
Color scheme: Red (shades of)
Alternate Mode: Corvette
Function: Weapons Designer, Expert Fighter
Personality: Serious, romantic at spark, bold, duty-bound, assertive, honorable
Motto: All things should be equal
Theme Song: “No Regrets,” Sohodolls
Weapon: Splitting maul
Voice actress: Jennifer Hale

Designation: Flux
Class: Soldier/Cyber Warrior
Color scheme: Purple-lilac
Alternate mode: Versys motorcycle
Function: Cyber Samurai, Communications Officer
Personality: Industrious, patient, relaxed, dignified, decorous, reflective
Motto: The first enemy you must conquer is yourself
Theme Song: “What’s In the Middle?” the bird and the bee
Weapon: Cyber katana
Voice actress: Aisha Tyler

[u]Designation: Voltage
Class: Medic/Spark support
Color scheme: Blue-green
Alternate mode: EMT vehicle
Function: Medical assistant, Nurse
Personality: Perceptive, courteous, self-controlled, judicious, accepting, honest
Motto: In the end, all I can do is my best
Theme Song: “Long Hard Road,” Sade
Weapon: Lancet
Voice actress: Hellena Taylor

Designation: Monomial
Class: Scientist/Metallurgist
Color scheme: Silver-white
Alternate mode: Prius
Function: Chemist,
Personality: Motherly, optimistic, talkative, creative, hides a violent dark side, brutal on the battlefield
Motto: The brighter the light, the darker the shadow
Theme Song: “Lose Control,” Evanescence
Weapon: Electroshock baton
Voice actress: Kim Mai Guest

Designation: Pulse
Class: Scout/Special Tactics Force
Color scheme: Orange-gold
Alternate mode: Camaro
Function: Espionage, Intelligence Analysis
Personality: Gregarious, determined, steadfast, fiercely independent, inappropriately blunt, guarded
Motto: Do what you will, but watch yourself.
Theme Song: “Daylight Robbery,” Imogen Heap
Weapon: Pistols
Voice actress: Jessie Flower

Designation: Lightning
Class: Engineer/Space Bridge Technician
Color scheme: Yellow (shades of)
Alternate mode: Kia Soul
Function: Mechanic, Operator
Personality: Plucky, energetic, girly-girl, lover of stories, flirtatious, appreciative
Motto: I don’t need a reason to lend my assistance
Theme Song: “The Show,” Lenka
Weapon: Wrench
Voice actress: Michelle Ruff

Very cool. The choice of voice actresses really says a lot about the characters too. Though I do wonder about Guest. Wouldn't Cree Summer be a better choice?

You mean Flux? I always pictured her with Aisha's voice much more than Cree's. Aisha's voice has a sophistication to it that Fluk would have.

Also, I did a Decepticon foil group called Team Paradox. Those profiles aren't done yet, but when I am, those cazy femmes will be on here, too.

I read the entire thread. Sailing through the shitstorms, arguments and ideas, no one never really mentioned Beast War.

Beast War was one of the best TF series ever. I shunned it at first because of TRUKNOMUNKEY and the primitive CGI. I gave it it's chance and never regret it. And what I really liked was the concept of the "return to the organic". You see them actually eat live food on occasion. The females make a glorious return. And they clearly have sexual urges. Couples were formed and it was clearly implyed they can reproduce sexually at this point. Because, you know, the whole Cybertron and the TF people returning to the organic! The series even introduced two more females archetype in Beast Machine: The HULK SMASH female brute and the philosophycal scientist.

While I think about it, how a 100% organic TF would work?
>Picture somehow related

knightedfeline wrote:Anyway, past the family issues, what kind of female characters would people like to see in Transformers? What kind of vehicles would they be? What kind of body types would they have?

I thought I answered this already.
Some female chars could fit gender sterotypes and others would not, in other words giving them as much variety as the male chars.
Unlike you maybe, I wouldn't have any issues with female chars filling the roles you mentioned, as long as these were not the only ones.
Some of my female chars are far more sterotypically feminine then what I've seen so far. Unlike some maybe, this was never the part that bothered me.

What kind of vehicles would they be?...Whatever the males are is good enough for the females. I don't see the specific need for "female TF alt modes" that are only used for females.

What kind of body type they have would depend on their alt modes, just like the males.
When it fits the rest of their design, they could have more feminine looking faces.
Some female TFs would end up looking exactly like male TFs with the only difference being that they'd have a feminine voice, something that wouldn't show up, unless they'd be on an animated TF show.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I read the entire thread. Sailing through the shitstorms, arguments and ideas, no one never really mentioned Beast War.

Beast War was one of the best TF series ever. I shunned it at first because of TRUKNOMUNKEY and the primitive CGI. I gave it it's chance and never regret it. And what I really liked was the concept of the "return to the organic". You see them actually eat live food on occasion. The females make a glorious return. And they clearly have sexual urges. Couples were formed and it was clearly implyed they can reproduce sexually at this point. Because, you know, the whole Cybertron and the TF people returning to the organic!

They weren't actually organic. It was a synthetic organic shell they wore over their actual robot bodies, kind of like a fur coat. They were still robots, just robots that had organic bits taped to them. And then many of them became Transmetal and the organic bits went away and just became regular old robot bits.

Shadowman wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I read the entire thread. Sailing through the shitstorms, arguments and ideas, no one never really mentioned Beast War.

Beast War was one of the best TF series ever. I shunned it at first because of TRUKNOMUNKEY and the primitive CGI. I gave it it's chance and never regret it. And what I really liked was the concept of the "return to the organic". You see them actually eat live food on occasion. The females make a glorious return. And they clearly have sexual urges. Couples were formed and it was clearly implyed they can reproduce sexually at this point. Because, you know, the whole Cybertron and the TF people returning to the organic!

They weren't actually organic. It was a synthetic organic shell they wore over their actual robot bodies, kind of like a fur coat. They were still robots, just robots that had organic bits taped to them. And then many of them became Transmetal and the organic bits went away and just became regular old robot bits.

Let's mention Beast Machines, then.

A little of both.

Shadowman wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:(...) I really liked was the concept of the "return to the organic". (...) you know, the whole Cybertron and the TF people returning to the organic!

They weren't actually organic. It was a synthetic organic shell they wore over their actual robot bodies, kind of like a fur coat. They were still robots, just robots that had organic bits taped to them. And then many of them became Transmetal and the organic bits went away and just became regular old robot bits.

You should rewatch Transformers Beast Machines, the last season of Beast War (and in a sense, the conclusion of G1). Optimus Primal went all shamany and fought for the return of the organic on Cyberton. Plants and animal existed in Cybertron's prehistory and Primal unlocked and released the organic back to Cybertron. It will take generations, but Cybertron and it's innabitants will become a symbiosis between the organic and the mechanic. Thus, the return to feed of solid food and water, breathing,and sexual reproduction. Organics and mechanic will become one.

And Primal won his bet at the end. It WILL happen.

I'd like to see a proper Beast War sequel that hapen one million years in after the events of beast machine. With their toys. I imagine a world like Magic The Gathering's Phyrexia mixed with Star-Wars Endor, mixed with the G.I Joe Movie Cobrala's homeworld.

The beasts could be a mix between outherworldly horrors and regula animals. The robots modes would look like the Gyver.

And of course, the ratio between females and males would be 50/50.

I dream this could happen.
Am I alone?

-Kanrabat- wrote:You should rewatch Transformers Beast Machines, the last season of Beast War (and in a sense, the conclusion of G1).

Okay, two problems here:

1. The title is Beast Wars. Plural. Like Star Wars.

2. Beast Machines wasn't the last season of Beast Wars, it was two seasons of it's own series. And it was so far detached from Beast Wars, it's writers were specifically instructed to ignore Beast Wars entirely. This had a profound impact on the series. A profound negative impact.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Optimus Primal went all shamany and fought for the return of the organic on Cyberton. Plants and animal existed in Cybertron's prehistory and Primal unlocked and released the organic back to Cybertron. It will take generations, but Cybertron and it's innabitants will become a symbiosis between the organic and the mechanic. Thus, the return to feed of solid food and water, breathing,and sexual reproduction. Organics and mechanic will become one.

And Primal won his bet at the end.

Yes, because they were techno-organic in Beast Machines. In Beast Wars, they were techno-organic in the same way your toaster would be techno-organic if you dressed it up in animal skins.

-Kanrabat- wrote:It WILL happen.

It DID happen, Beast Machines ended over a decade ago. And it was pretty crappy.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I'd like to see a proper Beast War sequel that hapen one million years in after the events of beast machine. With their toys. I imagine a world like Magic The Gathering's Phyrexia mixed with Star-Wars Endor, mixed with the G.I Joe Movie Cobrala's homeworld.

They almost did, it was going to be called Transtech, but they shaleved it at the last minute and gave us RID instead. Transtech itself later came back, but heavily modified and no longer connected to any other continuity.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I dream this could happen.
Am I alone?

Yes.

Shadowman wrote:(...)

-Kanrabat- wrote:I'd like to see a proper Beast War sequel that hapen one million years in after the events of beast machine. With their toys. I imagine a world like Magic The Gathering's Phyrexia mixed with Star-Wars Endor, mixed with the G.I Joe Movie Cobrala's homeworld.

They almost did, it was going to be called Transtech, but they shaleved it at the last minute and gave us RID instead. Transtech itself later came back, but heavily modified and no longer connected to any other continuity.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I dream this could happen.
Am I alone?

Yes.

Thanks for the link. But I still think my idea would be totally cool and perfect. Beside, since when are you the voice of the majority, heh? I'm not the only one who have thought of this and it would be totally rad. Monster-like transformers who change into vehicle/organic/thingamagings? Not only it ALREADY HAPPEN IN THE MOVIEVERSE! SEE HOW IT'S AWESOME:







Nevermind.........

-Kanrabat- wrote:Beside, since when are you the voice of the majority, heh?

Since I declared myself such in 2006. To be fair, that was the year everyone declared themselves the voice of the majority, so I don't know that it still stands.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I'm not the only one who have thought of this and it would be totally rad. Monster-like transformers who change into vehicle/organic/thingamagings? Not only it ALREADY HAPPEN IN THE MOVIEVERSE! SEE HOW IT'S AWESOME:

Non-organic.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Both are non organic, and also are never even shown transforming.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Ravage being a cat is normal, but he's still non-organic.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Concept art that was never used in the movies.

Also, I should point out that the movie designs are still very unpopular. You should have seen the storm that happened when we first saw Megatron's movie design. I was unfortunate enough to be on the pro-movie side...it was traumatizing.

by the way, if you're going to use reaction images (Which I wouldn't recommend) then at least use normal-sized images.

Shadowman wrote:(Quotes ect...)

*sigh*

Aw, come on, you're no fun. Can't you see I was clearly pointing out THE LOOKS of the things, not whennever they are made out of organics, mechanics, or concentrated rainbows. They all share in common that they are monstrous in robot form, and they all transform into big piles of nothings... and that suck big time. I would finally and defenitely hate an entire line made out of that.

However, a monstous/monster robot that change into a real vehicle, like DOTM Crankase and Hatchet, are totally awesome. We need more of this.

As for the combined Bike-Sisters, that was to show three piles of nothing that combined into a junk-heap. The final straw for the face.
...Aaaaaaaand a key to try to get back on topic.

As ugly as they can be, the Bike Sisters at least tried to show a female transformers that have a shape other than a woman's.
Transformers dont reproduce sexually. That is -somewhat- clearly established. The closest such a thing could really happen is in the Beast War Universe. And even more likely in the Beast Machine universe.

So, if transformers don't reproduce sexually, why does the few females have breasts and hips? Basically, the large hips are there to carry a growing baby, and the breasts are there to feed it once it's born. So, a fembot don't need that body desing at all. The only use breasts and hips have on a fembot are fan-service and to help us humans identify the females as such.

All of this to say that ANY transfomers could be female. Just give any TF a head with more feminine features and voila! Maybe all the females were already there to begin with. Maybe many TF we thought as males are females in reality. At least one TF is kinda that... which lead to... One of my favorite TF ever, Starscream, could very well be a female! At least, the french dubbers for G1 kinda made him female by having characters reffering to Starscream as "her" and "she".
I know how to link now! Yay!
Obviously, this would never happen to avoid confusion. Transformers are basically gender-neutral. Even if the male side is more prevalent.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Aw, come on, you're no fun. Can't you see I was clearly pointing out THE LOOKS of the things, not whennever they are made out of organics, mechanics, or concentrated rainbows. They all share in common that they are monstrous in robot form, and they all transform into big piles of nothings... and that suck big time. I would finally and defenitely hate an entire line made out of that.

I thought they were pretty cool. I never said the Cybertronian vehicle forms were ugly. I'm in the minority on it, though.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So, if transformers don't reproduce sexually, why does the few females have breasts and hips? Basically, the large hips are there to carry a growing baby, and the breasts are there to feed it once it's born. So, a fembot don't need that body desing at all. The only use breasts and hips have on a fembot are fan-service and to help us humans identify the females as such.

Yeah, that's about it. I dunno about fanservice, but it IS to help the viewer identify them as female. Otherwise, we get Strika.

-Kanrabat- wrote:All of this to say that ANY transfomers could be female. Just give any TF a head with more feminine features and voila!

Jhiaxus already tried that. It didn't end well for him, and he died from Arcee-related causes.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Maybe all the females were already there to begin with. Maybe many TF we thought as males are females in reality.

No, just...no.

Shadowman wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Maybe all the females were already there to begin with. Maybe many TF we thought as males are females in reality.

No, just...no.

What, that's the best you got? I've seen way worse.

Shadowman wrote:What, that's the best you got? I've seen way worse.

Hum... I don't think we are allowed to post the "way worst" here...

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Shadowman wrote:(Quotes ect...)

*sigh*

Aw, come on, you're no fun. Can't you see I was clearly pointing out THE LOOKS of the things, not whennever they are made out of organics, mechanics, or concentrated rainbows. They all share in common that they are monstrous in robot form, and they all transform into big piles of nothings... and that suck big time. I would finally and defenitely hate an entire line made out of that.

However, a monstous/monster robot that change into a real vehicle, like DOTM Crankase and Hatchet, are totally awesome. We need more of this.

As for the combined Bike-Sisters, that was to show three piles of nothing that combined into a junk-heap. The final straw for the face.
...Aaaaaaaand a key to try to get back on topic.

As ugly as they can be, the Bike Sisters at least tried to show a female transformers that have a shape other than a woman's.
Transformers dont reproduce sexually. That is -somewhat- clearly established. The closest such a thing could really happen is in the Beast War Universe. And even more likely in the Beast Machine universe.

So, if transformers don't reproduce sexually, why does the few females have breasts and hips? Basically, the large hips are there to carry a growing baby, and the breasts are there to feed it once it's born. So, a fembot don't need that body desing at all. The only use breasts and hips have on a fembot are fan-service and to help us humans identify the females as such.

All of this to say that ANY transfomers could be female. Just give any TF a head with more feminine features and voila! Maybe all the females were already there to begin with. Maybe many TF we thought as males are females in reality. At least one TF is kinda that... which lead to... One of my favorite TF ever, Starscream, could very well be a female! At least, the french dubbers for G1 kinda made him female by having characters reffering to Starscream as "her" and "she".
I know how to link now! Yay!
Obviously, this would never happen to avoid confusion. Transformers are basically gender-neutral. Even if the male side is more prevalent.

Yes thanks. Some of that is what I'm trying to say. Except that when they appeared in a cartoon with a male voice, that makes them male.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

So, if transformers don't reproduce sexually, why does the few females have breasts and hips? Basically, the large hips are there to carry a growing baby, and the breasts are there to feed it once it's born. So, a fembot don't need that body desing at all. The only use breasts and hips have on a fembot are fan-service and to help us humans identify the females as such.

All of this to say that ANY transfomers could be female. Just give any TF a head with more feminine features and voila! Maybe all the females were already there to begin with.

Obviously, this would never happen to avoid confusion. Transformers are basically gender-neutral. Even if the male side is more prevalent.

This is kind of what I see when I picture female Transformers. At least, what I don't picture are the ultra-feminine (from a human standpoint) female figures, like that pink Arcee with high heels. Forms and functions would be the same as the males since robotic organisms don't need physiological differences between male and female.

And Kanrabat, you mentioned:

-Kanrabat- wrote: You should rewatch Transformers Beast Machines, the last season of Beast War (and in a sense, the conclusion of G1). Optimus Primal went all shamany and fought for the return of the organic on Cyberton. Plants and animal existed in Cybertron's prehistory and Primal unlocked and released the organic back to Cybertron. It will take generations, but Cybertron and it's innabitants will become a symbiosis between the organic and the mechanic. Thus, the return to feed of solid food and water, breathing,and sexual reproduction. Organics and mechanic will become one.

I actually like this idea. This gives a reason for females to exist and be different from males.

Part of the problem I have with the whole female thing in Transformers is that in humans, traditional female roles may have arisen from necessity based on needs of women with young children. There is evidence that women in primitive societies who did not have children fulfilled the same roles as men (hunting, agriculture, etc). As women bore children, they needed to do things that could be interrupted often (to chase down children) and weren't inherently dangerous (like hunting). They therefore ended up doing "women's work" like weaving (altho this was very cultural, some cultures did not allow women to weave!), spinning, etc.

So if we translate this to Transformers who have no biological reason for females to either look different or have different roles from males (lacking altricial young) , then females would not appear significantly different than males unless you do add in biological reasons (like your organic symbiosis and subsequent sexual reproduction). You could have whole episodes and story arcs on the development of cultural differences in female and male roles (if any since this could depend on how precocial any offspring were and how sexually dimorphic the genders were), why it occurred and the effects on Transformer society.

Now you are no longer alone in wanting to see this altho I'm not sure one more person outweighs the majority of Shadowman.

-Kanrabat-
Having more and greater variety in Transformers is at the heart of this tag. I don't think you're alone wanting to see something more and different. There have been plenty here that have spoken as much.

I think there's a lot of thought about movie Transformer designs that have a lot going for it. They do have that monstrous aspect to them and Cybertronian vehicles are unique. I like the organic designs, I think it makes a lot more sense than the blockier versions of transformers.

Shadowman
Maybe being more organic in look in design is what would make female transformers female? Maybe that's why transformers would actually have male and female is to relate to organic species a lot better. I would it would be very hard for organic races to identify and trust a gender neutral race.

Shadowman/-Kanrabat-
I've seen a few worse, but I love that image.

Eclipsica
You're right. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they used more female voices though. Also I wouldn't mind seeing the G1 Starscream as a woman. It would make sense.

CelticDragon
I think it would be quite entertaining to see what kind of roles would come to a society in there is no distinction between male and female. Who says that females would be the ones that "carry" the children? It could be a choice? It would though enter the realm of Male/Male, Female/Female, and Male/Female relationships. That might be more than a writer for a kids series could be allowed to deal with. After all, what would people say if say, Prime and Ratchet became a couple and decided to have offspring? Imagine also what it would mean if transformers could remain neutral, have both sexes, or change their sex at will. For Transformers these would not be issues as the would to us.

Also it should be noted that the bigger hips on women are for easier childbirth. The way that children are carried also vary from culture to culture.

BTW I may not be able to respond more regularly, due to work.. I recently had some External HDD trouble, which has kept me from responding recently.

knightedfeline wrote: I recently had some External HDD trouble, which has kept me from responding recently.

NEVER DROP A EXTERNAL HDD.

It will never EVER forgive you.
It happen to me twice.

---------------------------------------------

I will suggest an OC. Imagine some huge female Transformers. Her altmode is some big tanker truck. In robot mode, she wear her tank as a backpack kibble. She's a higtly intelligent female engeneer. She's a great medic and surgeon. Wheeljack and Ratchet level of skills combined. She's a obviously.

However, she's not a warrior. She will always refuse to enter any battles and will chose to flee at the first opportunity. If cornered, she will fight like a rabid bear and destroy everything in her path. She flee battle because she want to keep control and she don't want to be damaged.

She does flee battle, but she's not a coward. She'll approach the strongest and/or smartest Transformers, or and will try to "mate" with him or her. "Mating" for her is to toutch the other's body on the largest area possible, exchanging static charges. This will cause some kind of great pleasure to her partner. The result end up in a partial paralisys for him or her. Gently but surely, Vat (let's call our heroine tanker-truck "Vat") will use her spark to touch her partner's.
She then take just a few grams of sample from her parner, along a bit of his or her spark aura.

Once the "sex" is done, Vat release her parner and send all data and samples to her tank. She will then repeat the process with the maximum number of partners possible. She may look like a slut to us, but Vat is, in a sense, a pioneer.

You see, Vat is PREGNANT. In her tank, a protoform is being built, along with it's own spark. Vat will seek out the most heroes possible so her son or daughter will be PERFECT. She dream of mating with a Prime and/or a Decepticon leader. They will contribute the best building blocks for her baby.

One day, the protoform will be born. Vat's objective will be accomplished because her child will be born as a full devloped adult with a legendary set of skills and knowledge, with the mind of a hero.
What will becaome of the perfect child? Will he become a hero, a tyrant, or will he mutate into some sort of unspeakable abobination?

So, what do you guys think?

knightedfeline wrote:Shadowman
Maybe being more organic in look in design is what would make female transformers female?

Not really, Arcee never looked organic but you could tell she was female.

knightedfeline wrote:Maybe that's why transformers would actually have male and female is to relate to organic species a lot better.

That's actually why Arcee was built in the G1 comics. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way. In IDW, Arcee was built because Jhiaxus wanted to see what would happen if he introduced gender to the species. In Animated, female transformers existed despite a species-wide revulsion to organic beings.

knightedfeline wrote:I would it would be very hard for organic races to identify and trust a gender neutral race.

In theory, but since we don't know any asexual races outside of some animals and single-celled organisms, it's hard to say.

knightedfeline wrote:
CelticDragon
I think it would be quite entertaining to see what kind of roles would come to a society in there is no distinction between male and female. Who says that females would be the ones that "carry" the children? It could be a choice? It would though enter the realm of Male/Male, Female/Female, and Male/Female relationships. That might be more than a writer for a kids series could be allowed to deal with.

No doubt, but fanfics have it well-covered.

knightedfeline wrote: After all, what would people say if say, Prime and Ratchet became a couple and decided to have offspring? Imagine also what it would mean if transformers could remain neutral, have both sexes, or change their sex at will. For Transformers these would not be issues as the would to us.

I was thinking about 2 separate things when throwing out ideas. In the world of mech (as opposed to organic or organic/mech combinations) there would be no need for distinctions in male and female for purely physiological reasons but I was assuming there would be a need for one of each to produce offspring (else why have 2 genders?). So in a way, there wouldn't be the same-sex relationships outside of wants.

I picture Transformer reproduction as not requiring carrying of an offspring but more precocial. Two types of energy combine to form a new life rather than physical growth of an offspring within one Transformer. Altho that's just my imagination and certainly isn't cannon (not that any of this discussion had much to do with established roles!).

It was when I was thinking about Kanrabat's idea of organic that I was thinking there would then exist a reason for females and for females with physiological differences, assuming they would reproduce like mammals. Other species on our planet have fewer distinguishing features between male and female, correlating roughly to less carrying and care of young by either parent. So female reptiles tend to look a whole lot like males while female mammals are often quite sexually dimorphic. If you follow that logic in Transformers-land, you can get quite a few options for how to present females and their relationship to males in the realm of more organic-based organisms.

knightedfeline wrote: Also it should be noted that the bigger hips on women are for easier childbirth. The way that children are carried also vary from culture to culture.

Right, that's why it always seemed so odd to me that female Transformers are almost always portrayed with wide hips. There's no biological reason given at all for this and in fact, it makes no sense. Wide hips would assume childbirth thru a birth canal in the pelvic region and we have no evidence that Transformers carry or birth offspring at all (that I can think of, I'm sure someone will correct me if there is an example )

CelticDragon wrote:

knightedfeline wrote: Also it should be noted that the bigger hips on women are for easier childbirth. The way that children are carried also vary from culture to culture.

Right, that's why it always seemed so odd to me that female Transformers are almost always portrayed with wide hips. There's no biological reason given at all for this and in fact, it makes no sense. Wide hips would assume childbirth thru a birth canal in the pelvic region and we have no evidence that Transformers carry or birth offspring at all (that I can think of, I'm sure someone will correct me if there is an example )

It's because Hasbro wanted them to look feminine. Arcee is supposed to look like a woman, women have wide hips, ergo, Arcee has wide hips. It's really that simple.

Shadowman wrote:
It's because Hasbro wanted them to look feminine. Arcee is supposed to look like a woman, women have wide hips, ergo, Arcee has wide hips. It's really that simple.

Being that simple doesn't mean it makes sense! In other science fiction, gender isn't taken for granted to mean "like humans do it" but has explored a wide range of other options. I just think it's a shame that Transformers didn't. I know it's because the point was to sell toys aimed at boys but it feels like a missed opportunity to really take the characters to a different level. Seems like many of us are more imaginative than the writers and toy designers at Hasbro, Marvel, IDW, etc. If only they'd have asked me...