The Energon Pub

No Death for Prowl wrote:I thought the Matrix Quest was a bit lacking(Wild West and Mobdy Dick story)

Oh yeah. Also, the first story, which is like a ripoff of Casablanca, could have been avoided. But they were all there to showcase Thunderwing's obsession with finding the Matrix, which is paid off in the last 2 installments. #66, All Fall Down, was great, but at the same time I was disappointed that Prime got his ass kicked by Thunderwing. It was a good fight, though.

Furman always turns Prowl into a prick for some reason.

Heh, true. He was a somewhat unbearable prick, huh. But I don't think it was anything against Prowl, it was just that he needed to get readers to be fans of Grimlock and the best way was to put an annoying asshole next to him to make him look better.

Everyone here seems to share my opinion,but somehow i cant enter other topics without someone bashing everthing not G1.

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Oh yeah. Also, the first story, which is like a ripoff of Casablanca, could have been avoided.

Thought it was going more for Maltese Falcon...

Ok here is my one and only complaint about the differant shows that followed G1, Continuity. In my opinion sense G1 started the whole thing, I think the other series should have been a continuation of of sorts. Do we really need a whole new "universe" for each series? In short...NO! I loved beast wars because it had continunity with G1 instead of replacing it we dont need a million Optimus Primes or Megatrons. I mean lets get real, we are talking about an entire race with technology that allows them to traval the stars. There should be millions of transformers in the galaxy if not trillions, all with their own stories and lives. What of them? IMO the other shows could have been their stories. Now I can accept the intraduction of new character designs with ease but why is it when we get to the end of the current story lines and plots do we start over with the same cast but a whole new set of storylines and plot hooks unrelated to what has come before? Now dont get me wrong I enjoyed the other shows, I just hate having to start over each time.

Double post. Sorry about that.

PowerEncarnate wrote:Ok here is my one and only complaint about the differant shows that followed G1, Continuity. In my opinion sense G1 started the whole thing, I think the other series should have been a continuation of of sorts. Do we really need a whole new "universe" for each series? In short...NO! I loved beast wars because it had continunity with G1 instead of replacing it we dont need a million Optimus Primes or Megatrons. I mean lets get real, we are talking about an entire race with technology that allows them to traval the stars. There should be millions of transformers in the galaxy if not trillions, all with their own stories and lives. What of them? IMO the other shows could have been their stories. Now I can accept the intraduction of new character designs with ease but why is it when we get to the end of the current story lines and plots do we start over with the same cast but a whole new set of storylines and plot hooks unrelated to what has come before? Now dont get me wrong I enjoyed the other shows, I just hate having to start over each time.

See, here's the issue with that. If all these new series and movies were to be built upon the G1 cartoon, then there would be less freedom and creativity. When one is given a fresh start at something, they are free to create stories and characters and mold them into what they want them to be, without having to worry about contradiction to previous media.

Besides, if they were to make every show take part in the G1 toon's universe, a lot of times would have it where one would have to had seen the G1 cartoon to fully understand what's going on. Beast Wars and Beast Machines didn't suffer from this because they set their characters far enough off in the distant future. BUT, that can't work for every series. One can only go so far into the future. Any story set inthe present would have take part alongside the G1 toon, which basically dominates the present time.

Keeping all the series in one universe makes too many limitations for each series' individuality. Whereas shows in separate universes can have more liberty to grow in their own right.

Sabrblade wrote:See, here's the issue with that. If all these new series and movies were to be built upon the G1 cartoon, then there would be less freedom and creativity. When one is given a fresh start at something, they are free to create stories and characters and mold them into what they want them to be, without having to worry about contradiction to previous media.
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Yes x 100! While it's fun sometimes to see familiar elements (the matrix of leadership, for example) pop up, after a while it gets really really constricting.

It's weird because we're the people who allegedly love originality and are all about the new *new* NEW! Yet somehow we seem to want the same old reheated leftovers over and over again.

I'm not just talking about TFs, mind you. I think it's a cultural thing. Like we really needed 3 Pirates of the Caribbean movies? When money's involved, as in Hollywood, people are afraid to take chances, especially if the audience is perfectly content to get badly microwaved leftovers. I think the TFs have an interesting scenario, several fascinating questions to explore (nature of warfare, nature of 'humanity'/personhood, etc) and some pretty neat archetypal characters. Those are the essential elements to me. I love seeing how new people try to reconfigure those elements, even if I don't particularly care for the final product. It's called creativity. It's what's kept the franchise alive for so long.

HK, somebody help me, I'm starting to read political blogs again.

I understand where PowerEncarnate is coming from. What I got from his post is that if you're going to make new stories in different universes, why confuse the matter by re-using character bases like an "Optimus Prime" or "Megatron", etc.? What's the matter with creating stories in the same universe but with other characters instead? It's not necessary to create a "new" universe with each subsequent story. Creating a "new" story but using very similar characters is a tease and can be frustrating. Also, post G1 Transformers cartoons actually tie themselves down and restrict creativity by re-using things like the Optimus Prime/Convoy and Megatron archetypes. If you really want creativity, use entirely new characters, personas as well as names. Despite being in different universes, post G1 Transformers adhere to things like the Matrix, Cybertron, etc. so they really aren't that free in terms of creativity.

I'm not against using a different universe for different Transformers series but if you're going to say you're not using the same universe for creative freedom's sake, ditch Optimus Prime, Megatron, Cybertron, and everything else that is a part of G1. Keep the basic concept of sentient robots that transform and then write a story from there.

Convotron wrote:Also, post G1 Transformers cartoons actually tie themselves down and restrict creativity by re-using things like the Optimus Prime/Convoy and Megatron archetypes. If you really want creativity, use entirely new characters, personas as well as names. Despite being in different universes, post G1 Transformers adhere to things like the Matrix, Cybertron, etc. so they really aren't that free in terms of creativity.

They have to reuse names and personas in order for Hasbro to keep the copyrights and trademarks. Some things must be reused over and over again for this reason. Yes, there are some limitations and boundaries created by this, but if each series were to follow the G1 cartoon's universe, there would be even more limits and even less uniqueness.

Sabrblade wrote:They have to reuse names and personas in order for Hasbro to keep the copyrights and trademarks. Some things must be reused over and over again for this reason. Yes, there are some limitations and boundaries created by this, but if each series were to follow the G1 cartoon's universe, there would be even more limits and even less uniqueness.

Every Transformers series since G1 has used essentially the same formula, regardless of being in different universes. I think the real obstacle against freeing storytelling from limits is the fact that the Transformers is a franchise based on selling toys. When creative decisions have to be approved by business people, that tends to limit what is done in the fiction behind the toys, unfortunately.

Considering the amount of G1 based concepts in all post G1 series, they are inadverdently trapped partially in G1's roots. No matter what is done, they are limited to a degree due to this.

I honestly don't believe using a single universe limits storytelling as much as some think. Good, and sometimes great, storytelling is achieved in shared universe settings. Grant Morrison did a great job of writing in All Star Superman, using decades worth of Superman material as reference for ideas.

Convotron wrote:Every Transformers series since G1 has used essentially the same formula, regardless of being in different universes. I think the real obstacle against freeing storytelling from limits is the fact that the Transformers is a franchise based on selling toys. When creative decisions have to be approved by business people, that tends to limit what is done in the fiction behind the toys, unfortunately.

Considering the amount of G1 based concepts in all post G1 series, they are inadverdently trapped partially in G1's roots. No matter what is done, they are limited to a degree due to this.

I honestly don't believe using a single universe limits storytelling as much as some think. Good, and sometimes great, storytelling is achieved in shared universe settings. Grant Morrison did a great job of writing in All Star Superman, using decades worth of Superman material as reference for ideas.

Yes, but considering the sheer amount of fiction that has been placed into the G1 timeline, there's barely any room left for any new full-fledged series to be inserted without overlapping exisiting fiction.

As for the G1-inspired references in other series, they tend to be nothing more than that: references (and homages). Their purposes are generally meant to keep the memory and spirit of G1 alive. Energon and Animated are good examples of this. Not to mention that these are sometimes used a means to commemorate the franchise's anniversary (particularly in Energon's case).

Sabrblade wrote:Yes, but considering the sheer amount of fiction that has been placed into the G1 timeline, there's barely any room left for any new full-fledged series to be inserted without overlapping exisiting fiction.

As for the G1-inspired references in other series, they tend to be nothing more than that: references (and homages). Their purposes are generally meant to keep the memory and spirit of G1 alive. Energon and Animated are good examples of this. Not to mention that these are sometimes used a means to commemorate the franchise's anniversary (particularly in Energon's case).

I have to refer to PowerEncarnate's post where he suggested using other characters in the same universe for Transformers stories. Overlapping existing fiction could be taken as far as simply stating that this is a group of Cybertronians who splintered off and went in a different direction of the known/unknown universe. I just don't see how G1 can have so much material that a half-decent writer couldn't create stories that takes the franchise in a different direction in that universe.

Creating a different/new universe is great for expanding creativity but with the sheer amount of referencing, homage, re-use of concepts, the Post G1 series I've seen seem more like putting a spin on the same thing over and over again. It's not necessarily a bad thing, if it keeps fans around and creates new fans, it must be doing something right.

Kenny28 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Oh yeah. Also, the first story, which is like a ripoff of Casablanca, could have been avoided.

Thought it was going more for Maltese Falcon...

Oh yeah, right! DUH!!! I got Bogie's movies mixed up. I meant The Maltese Falcon.

part of this might be the nostalgia factor, but the music, the stories, the characters, and voices are what make G1 so classic now. Still say it was one of the 80's best written toons.

G1 ----- rated just right

Ah, the G1 series. I wasn't alive when it first came out, but my older brother showed me the 1986 movie (or forced me to watch it, actually, since I was more interested in My Little Pony at the time, haha), and I fell in love with it at first sight. G1 started it all for me, so it shall always remain my favorite. My honorable mentions are Beast Wars and Transformers:Animated (surprisingly awesome), but G1 was the first, and you gotta love Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime! The recent movies are great, but I'm always left wanting the other numerous Autobots and Decepticons to make an appearance like they did in G1.

it was the 80's.. and G1 started it all for a lot of us that grew up with it, and that are still in it... so i think that even with all its Flaws (plots, inconsistencies, toys not like the show or vice versa) the coolness factor is through the roof for those of us that grew up on it. Its our childhood. that magical era where one day when were older we all wish we were still in where there are no bills, etc....


sadly when beast wars came i was going to college and it wasn't cool to still be watching cartoons... (i have since broken that rule lol) so it wasn't till r.i.d. came out that i saw another tf series regularly, and even it had its cheesy predacon moments.. but autobots as cars and then finally the decpeticons all reminded me of my childhood... i had to have my TF fix...

then that went away and i missed the armada/energon/cybetron series and to date havn't watched a series regularly since, but have been collecting the toys


really my only opinions are that Peter Cullen is great as Optimus and Chris Latta's voice for Starscream fit that character's traits perfectly.. he still makes me laugh at his dialogue and schemes and the voice is a big reason why it works imho

yes megatron's voice can make my ears hurt, but welker is "the man with a 1000+ voices" so im sure that if they would've asked him to do a deeper voice, he couldve...

agent1159 wrote:
sadly when beast wars came i was going to college and it wasn't cool to still be watching cartoons... (i have since broken that rule lol) .

That's no excuse, young man! I watched cartoons through college. And in grad school I got half my program sucked into Batman: The Animated Series and then TF Armada. (I had to do a LOT of explaining of backstory, but it was all for The Cause). (It's better with beer and nachos). Only cartoons I missed were the Beast Wars/Beast Machines because I was in the Army.

You should hear how they dubbed the G1 voices in Korean.

And RP: check out _Sahara_ (1942). Bogart looks back on that as his all-time favorite role. FANTASTIC WWII movie. Totally jingoistic, but awesome nonetheless.

HK, I knows mah war flix.

hellkitty wrote: And RP: check out _Sahara_ (1942). Bogart looks back on that as his all-time favorite role. FANTASTIC WWII movie. Totally jingoistic, but awesome nonetheless.

Yes, I have seen it. I am actually a Bogie-fan. I used to confuse Sahara with The African Queen a lot. That's the one where he goes down the Nile with Katherine Hepburn. Maybe just because of the geography... Also, I like the original Sabrina better as well. (Yes, I enjoyed it, and the remake. So what? STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!!!)

And my all-time favorite war movie is The Dirty Dozen, though the best opening I ever saw was Saving Private Ryan. That was BRUTAL. Probably because it was very accurate.

vectorA3 wrote:Quints --schedule Tulio for execution................

That's it...I'm getting the rope.....

Seriously though, when we speak of Transformers on here, we generally compare whatever is current to whatever came before it. Since G1 began it all, as there was no Diaclone cartoon, it's all that most of us had to start with. Also, since most of us have fond memories of G1 (odd but true), we'll still harken back to the "days of old" when all this stuff was "new".

Is it overrated? Yeah, to a certain degree. It wasn't perfect, but I watched A LOT of crap back then that was way worse. As stated earlier, G1 came at a time when cartoons were generally crap. They existed simply to keep children mindlessly entertained. We were given a story with ongoing characters that had minor development and history. At that time cartoons started growing up, I think.

I'm not a "GeeWunner", not sure what that term means, but G1 gave me most of my fav characters to this day. I have not liked a version of Omega Supreme since G1(scratch that...TFA's version is AWESOME). So, that's my two cents. Long winded, but two cents nonetheless.

For me, G1 is a favourite but a mixed bag. First of all, it isn't storytelling at its best. Cartoons in general aren't expected to be excellently crafted and the fact that Transformers cartoons are made to sell toys doesn't help. However, two decades later the Animated series shows a good level of creativity can be combined with business interests in such a franchise.

I find that G1 is like a first love. It was my introduction to the Transformers universe and so it holds a special place in my heart. I also find that the fog of time obscures the shortcomings of G1. I find that G1 offers many, many, many potential launchpads for character concepts. As a kid, I would watch the cartoon and then with my friends, play in the backyard and we would create our own stories based on the cartoon and expand on the personalities. For me, that's why I love G1 so much. It laid down the groundwork for my imaginary forays into adventure in the backyard.

I enjoy post G1 Transformers but I'll always compare them to G1, though not to say "Is this as good as G1?". It's more like I'll see similarities in the various Optimus Primes and unconsciously refer back to G1 Optimus Prime as the grand daddy, so to speak. TFA is a wonderful series and while it resembles G1 in its homages and nods, it's delightfully different and contemporary. G1 is great but for its own reasons just as other Transformers series are great for their own reasons.

The way people here are describing G1 as a part of their childhood, what they grew up on, and the times that they cherished the most, is how I feel about Beast Wars. It was a part of my childhood, what I, the times I cherished most. Basically this argument can be used for any show that one grew up on. Would any of you here that feel this way about G1 still feel this way had you been born much later, grown up on another series, and then went back and watched G1 via tapes/DVDs/reruns/other?

In fact, I'm surprised there aren't that many here who think that Beast Wars is overrated (I don't).

Sabrblade wrote:The way people here are describing G1 as a part of their childhood, what they grew up on, and the times that they cherished the most, is how I feel about Beast Wars. It was a part of my childhood, what I, the times [i]I[i] cherished most. Basically this argument can be used for any show that one grew up on. Would any of you here that feel this way about G1 still feel this way had you been born much later, grown up on another series, and then went back and watched G1 via tapes/DVDs/reruns/other?

In fact, I'm surprised there aren't that many here who think that Beast Wars is overrated (I don't).

That's exactly how it is, Sabrblade. For you, Beast Wars was a part of your childhood so that definitely made a strong impression. I'm sure kids, like my nieces, who are exposed to TFA as their first major Transformers experience will feel the same thing in 20 years.

As for feeling different had I grown up with another series and then watched G1 as a retro experience? Definitely. First impressions are a powerful thing. However, I personally have particular tastes that may still turn me towards older things. I became a teenager in the late 90s but I'm a classic rock and metal fan. I love older anime like Macross and Gatchaman. So with that in mind, I don't know if I would feel the same love I have for G1 but it may be something I'd still gravitate towards had I been born later.

As far as Beast Wars, I love it. I was too young to understand the furor over the trukk not munky thing. I was just happy to see another Transformers cartoon air. To me, even before the time travel episode, Optimas Primal was not Optimus Prime so I didn't care about changing into a gorilla. I liked things like the Dinobots and G1 Predacons so Beast Wars was great for me.

Sabrblade wrote:In fact, I'm surprised there aren't that many here who think that Beast Wars is overrated (I don't).

Because it isn't. It really is a great series. Actually, the best.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:In fact, I'm surprised there aren't that many here who think that Beast Wars is overrated (I don't).

Because it isn't. It really is a great series. Actually, the best.

While I agree with you that it is the best, there are others who would disagree and say that either G1 or Animated is the best.

Random wrote:

vectorA3 wrote:Quints --schedule Tulio for execution................

That's it...I'm getting the rope.....

This is what i have to say to all that try execute me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CLXDHUZnnk

vectorA3 wrote:part of this might be the nostalgia factor.

G1 ----- rated just right

This do not justify saying that the others are bad.

Every one has it own nostalgia,and none is better than other.

In my opinion,i dont why people hate Armada and leaves R.I.D. alone,but once again thats my opinion.