The Energon Pub

I really like the cartoon,but i feel that people overrate it.
i seem people dimiss other series just because it isnt G1 and every seires should be EXACTly like it to be good.Like its is the ultimate transformes experience.

Anyway i wanted to discuss if people overrate it a little too much.

Its more Point Of View than anything. G1 definitely had its issues, but seeing as it started the whole Transformers mytho, to say its overrated is a bit much.

Every TF line since has had some, if not alot of, influence by the first series. Beast Wars was hailed as a great series, but to me, it didn't really get that good until it started harking back to G1. The Armada/Energon/Cybertron series toys were very sweet, but personally, the toons were horrible to me. I take my AEC stories straight from the comics alone because of this.

RID, while in concept was really cool, possibly the reason we even got Alternators, but designs for the TFs in bot mode were so different that not everyone was willing to accept it.

All Transformers lines have something great to offer, but none of it would have been without the foundation that G1 created.

Sometimes i just see blind worship to g1 and blind hate to the rest.Not all time though.

I respect your opinion about it. Here's my perspective:

For those of us who are old, cartoons *sucked*. Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, the Flintstones, the Jetsons, Speed Racer, Penelope Pitstop--that's what was on when I was a kid. And on, and on, and on, over and over again.

The first glimpse of improvement was Battle of the Planets (most people might remember it as "G-force"). Which if you watch today would probably think was crap, but again, compared to endless rounds of Fred and Barney bowling, would be a godsend of adventure.

In 1984, TV laws changed so that you could now have product tie ins with tv shows--the argument before was that if I, the network, ran a half hour Barbie cartoon, really, that was a half hour advertisement for Barbie toys, but instead of Mattel paying ME, I'm paying THEM. With this restriction lifted, *everything* changed. We got, in short order, Transformers, He-Man, GI Joe, Voltron, and a whole bunch of adventure cartoons with huge casts (to sell more toys, of course) and exciting plotlines. Really, would you rather watch Fred yelling "Wilmaaaaa!" or robots shooting at each other? No brainer, right?

I suspect many of the hardcore G1'ers have their fondness for the series based strongly in the fact that they recognize how different and how much better it was than the stuff we'd been forced to watch before.

Going back now, after animation itself has changed so much, and cartoons are made with higher quality both artistically and plotwise, I'd probably be unimpressed with G1, too. But knowing what it was playing against, and remembering what an oasis of awesome it was in my weekday afternoons, I love it.

HK, it's cheezy like a great plate of nachos!

hellkitty wrote:I respect your opinion about it. Here's my perspective:

Really, would you rather watch Fred yelling "Wilmaaaaa!" or robots shooting at each other? No brainer, right?

I suspect many of the hardcore G1'ers have their fondness for the series based strongly in the fact that they recognize how different and how much better it was than the stuff we'd been forced to watch before.

Going back now, after animation itself has changed so much, and cartoons are made with higher quality both artistically and plotwise, I'd probably be unimpressed with G1, too. But knowing what it was playing against, and remembering what an oasis of awesome it was in my weekday afternoons, I love it.

HK, it's cheezy like a great plate of nachos!

I not umnipressed by G1,far from that,i really enjoy it.
But the fact that people say No and say like "G1 is Theultimate and onlytransformers experience.Ever." Look like blind worship that only leads to dislike to later medias.

If you're talking about GEEWUNers....well, who gives a flying ding dong?

Me, it's corny but makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside (and makes for a great amateur MST3k session)

G1 is far from the "one and only good transformers show", but it is the best in my eyes. The rest just lacks the number of characters and episode numbers. I mean, the second best show - Beast Wars- had only about 7-7 characters per side, while in G1, one sub-group or gestalt had that number.
G1 had diversity in characters, but still maintained a common style in the basic level of designs.

Since it, every freakin' series starts with an autobot named Convoy/Optimus going off against a decepticon named Megatron. I know these names are recognisable, and belong to the Transformers universe as much as the decepticon/autobot logos, but some innovation in that area would be welcomed by me (that was another good perk of G1, the rotation of new characters (some say "to sell toys", but still that gave dynamism to the series))

Quints --schedule Tulio for execution................

Some people do tend to be like that but I think they're a minority. Most fans I'd like to think will like the series for what it is but not go to the exstreme of "this is the best series ever and anything else sucks."

There's probly an even smaller group of people who think G1 is the best series ever but have made that opinion after at least watching other series.

The one thing that gets me though is the people who even when they generally admit that G1 had flaws and really wasn't the best still manage to praise Frank Welker as the best Megatron.

Don't get me wrong Frank is an awsome voice actor and I give him credit for being the first Megatron but that particular character is actully one of my LEAST favorite voices in all of Transformers. Quite frankly it sounds like he's talking with larangitice when he does Megatron.

Wheelie just annoys me because of his rhyming but he did have a nice voice for that character and every other character Frank did I liked except for Megatron. I have just never liked his voice.

Now he did change the voice in season 3 as Galvatron which Leanord Nimoy did that one first but still Frank did a great job of contiueing the character in the series.

Now I'm most familiar with David Kaye's Megatron but I really don't think his is the best either. Allthough in the Unicron Trilogy when he droped the "Yeesss" I liked his Megatron alot more than I did before. (maybe because it was easier to take him seriously as a villian when he didn't pronounce yes all funny.)

And any given rate, it's all personal opinion. I just find it hard to take any opinion seriously if I belive the person is makeing solely because that was the first and for no other reason.

Kenny28 wrote:If you're talking about GEEWUNers....well, who gives a flying ding dong?

Yeah this is kind what i meant

Rial Vestro wrote:Some people do tend to be like that but I think they're a minority. Most fans I'd like to think will like the series for what it is but not go to the exstreme of "this is the best series ever and anything else sucks."

There's probly an even smaller group of people who think G1 is the best series ever but have made that opinion after at least watching other series..

Not sure about that,because in many topics,sites or whatever there are many people like that.

Chaoslock wrote:G1 is far from the "one and only good transformers show", but it is the best in my eyes. The rest just lacks the number of characters and episode numbers. I mean, the second best show - Beast Wars- had only about 7-7 characters per side, while in G1, one sub-group or gestalt had that number.
G1 had diversity in characters, but still maintained a common style in the basic level of designs.
))

I always though with less characters,there was more development.
One example is people idealize characters like Skywarp,Tracks and (should i dare?)Shockwave,without they doing something really relevant in the cartoon.

Chaoslock wrote:Since it, every freakin' series starts with an autobot named Convoy/Optimus going off against a decepticon named Megatron. I know these names are recognisable, and belong to the Transformers universe as much as the decepticon/autobot logos, but some innovation in that area would be welcomed by me ))

Reminds me when people saw Beast Wars and couldn't accept an Optimus turning into a gorilla.

vectorA3 wrote:Quints --schedule Tulio for execution................

Never!

I love G1 to death, but I can't form an opinion really b/c I've only seen a handful of BW episodes. I'd love to see them all - there's at least 4 seasons right? How many episodes?? Cheapest place to get them?

The G1 cartoon now seems overrated compared to some of the subsequent TF series on TV, and the stuff that's on now in general. But in 1984, it was not. It was one of the best shows on (that's not saying much) and it drove TF toys sales through the roof, even though it was the toys that brought the cartoon.

The Marvel G1 comics, though, are still better than the stuff out now. WAY BETTER. Especially starting with issue 56, when Simon Furman took over. The Back From the Dead story arc and the Unicron Saga was just untouchable. Not even Simon Furman could touch it with his later stuff. Pure awesomeness.

vectorA3 wrote:I love G1 to death, but I can't form an opinion really b/c I've only seen a handful of BW episodes. I'd love to see them all - there's at least 4 seasons right? How many episodes?? Cheapest place to get them?

3 seasons. And each season is verry easy to tell apart sence Characters get upgrades for each season. (from their normal modes to Transmetal, to Transmetal 2.)

I despise GEEWUNers, too! G1 is a lot better than the crap non- TF cartoons that are being churned out lately, but it's not the best series. Now, I haven't seen all of G1, but I can tell you it's not much compared to Beast Wars, RiD, the Uni Trilogy and Animated visually, and not as well written as Beast Wars, Animated and Beast Machines, but it's got a lot of... spunk. Or camp. Not sure how to describe it.

Note: I left BM out of the visual section because the character designs are ugly and the toys didn't look the same as the show, which turned me off Transformers for years.

vectorA3 wrote:I love G1 to death, but I can't form an opinion really b/c I've only seen a handful of BW episodes. I'd love to see them all - there's at least 4 seasons right? How many episodes?? Cheapest place to get them?

I looked on the net if there are any beast wars dvd to sell,but since i didnt find any i watchted on Youtube.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The G1 cartoon now seems overrated compared to some of the subsequent TF series on TV, and the stuff that's on now in general. But in 1984, it was not. It was one of the best shows on (that's not saying much) and it drove TF toys sales through the roof, even though it was the toys that brought the cartoon.

You reminded me of this

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /1812/1/9/

Rodimus Prime wrote:The Marvel G1 comics, though, are still better than the stuff out now. WAY BETTER. Especially starting with issue 56, when Simon Furman took over. The Back From the Dead story arc and the Unicron Saga was just untouchable. Not even Simon Furman could touch it with his later stuff. Pure awesomeness.

I remenber from one of those comics Shockwave being a Badass

Skottwave wrote:I despise GEEWUNers, too! G1 is a lot better than the crap non- TF cartoons that are being churned out lately, but it's not the best series. Now, I haven't seen all of G1, but I can tell you it's not much compared to Beast Wars, RiD, the Uni Trilogy and Animated visually, and not as well written as Beast Wars, Animated and Beast Machines, but it's got a lot of... spunk. Or camp. Not sure how to describe it.

Note: I left BM out of the visual section because the character designs are ugly and the toys didn't look the same as the show, which turned me off Transformers for years.

you need to watch all of G1 then ---esp. Five Faces of Darkness, and then tell me that u still think the writing is subpar. I beg to differ on that one. One of the best written series of its era imo.

vectorA3 wrote:

Skottwave wrote:I despise GEEWUNers, too! G1 is a lot better than the crap non- TF cartoons that are being churned out lately, but it's not the best series. Now, I haven't seen all of G1, but I can tell you it's not much compared to Beast Wars, RiD, the Uni Trilogy and Animated visually, and not as well written as Beast Wars, Animated and Beast Machines, but it's got a lot of... spunk. Or camp. Not sure how to describe it.

Note: I left BM out of the visual section because the character designs are ugly and the toys didn't look the same as the show, which turned me off Transformers for years.

you need to watch all of G1 then ---esp. Five Faces of Darkness, and then tell me that u still think the writing is subpar. I beg to differ on that one. One of the best written series of its era imo.

Actually,season 3 had more deeper plots,almost like Beast Wars,its downside was its least popular characters.(On my opinion)

Looking at it,the guy of Lil Formers is a Geewuner,isnt he?

TulioDude wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The G1 cartoon now seems overrated compared to some of the subsequent TF series on TV, and the stuff that's on now in general. But in 1984, it was not. It was one of the best shows on (that's not saying much) and it drove TF toys sales through the roof, even though it was the toys that brought the cartoon.

You reminded me of this

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /1812/1/9/

Wow, cool. I hadn't seen that before.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The Marvel G1 comics, though, are still better than the stuff out now. WAY BETTER. Especially starting with issue 56, when Simon Furman took over. The Back From the Dead story arc and the Unicron Saga was just untouchable. Not even Simon Furman could touch it with his later stuff. Pure awesomeness.

I remenber from one of those comics Shockwave being a Badass

Oh yes. He absolutely kicks the **** out of Scorponok in issues 72 and 73. One of the best fights I have seen in any comic book, be it TF or not. I always thought G1 comic Shockwave was the perfect Decepticon. Ruthless, cunning, calculating, a just a touch of ego and megalomania, but not enough to make him go crazy like Megatron. Megatron might have been stronger, but he was too greedy for what his abilities were. Shockwave=WIN. And it took both megatron and Galvatron to kill him in the comics. Supposedly. We never actually saw him die. Again.

I'm a Transformers "old head" and I agree with some of the sentiment in the original post; the animated G1 series is the beginning of it all, thus it lends itself to a lot of overrating.

If you really want to be real about it, the show was often marred with careless animation errors, plot holes as far as even Kup's eyes could see, and in some cases (esp. in Season 3 with the budget cuts), it could look downright aesthetically awful.

But what made it last for 25 years was the memorable, masterful voice acting, and the attention to detail for many of the characters. I don't think kids wanted to tune in just to see their favorite toys on screen, but they wanted to see what Megatron would do to get the Autobots riled up! This was also true of G.I. Joe, and though many of us worship at the respective altars of Peter Cullen and Frank Welker here at Seibertron.com, I think anyone who has even slightly been brushed with Transformers can recognize "those voices" at first listen.

The difference between Transformers and say Go-Bots wasn't just in the toys themselves, while there was some great voice acting in the latter (Marilyn Lightstone's cackling Crasher is perhaps one of the more memorable villainous female voices outside of the Baroness in that era... if ever) -- it was the fact that you knew what a character like Starscream was all about just with a few lines, no matter how "obvious" those lines were. And ever since, when you hear "Starscream" there are expectations with that name.

For example, the worst "Starscream" of all time IMO was in Beast Wars II; but one of the best outside of the GOAT (G1 Starscream) was the one in Galaxy Force. Not only was the latter faithful to the design and character of "Starscream", but the writers took him several steps further than I would have ever guessed.

Those are just the Japanese examples. Beast Wars was another good example of how they evolved the series with the things learned from G1 in mind.

However, they never could quite get it right with series they had to dub over like Robots in Disguise (those worked much better in their Japanese equivalents). A lot of that is due more to Hasbro's handling than anything else.

I think those who hate on the other Transformers properties without context are way off base, like the GEEWUNers as described here.

A lot of good points have been made here.
Back in the day, I LOVED G1. It began my obsession. I could quote lines from that series by rote, I watched it so darn much. I cried right there in the theater when OP bought it (and I was FIFTEEN!), and it made my year when he returned to unleash the Matrix power and destroy the hate plague.
Nowdays, I do have all the boxed sets of G1, and I have to confess that many things about it make me cringe a bit, from the afore mentioned flaws to the silly music that Jazz liked that was supposed to be "cool" to the sometimes lame dialogue. HOWEVER, I still respect the series, and appreciate all the goodness it brought, from Soundwave's voice, to the combiners, to those always appreciated occasional visits to Cybertron itself. Its where it all started, so I keep this in mind.
I think most folks that are considered "geewunners" really are remembering all the finer points of G1, and like myself wouldn't mind seeing all those great aspects applied to a new well written (AMERICAN, PLEASE) and animated series that embraces modern standards, yet brings us back to those days of yore when the 'cons lived on the ocean floor. Most of the newer series have not even come close to that happy medium, the obvious exceptions being Beast Wars and Animated. In those shows, we at least had characters that like in the old days, we could get close to emotionally. How many of you gritted your teeth and gasped in horror when flames shot out of G1 Prowl's mouth and Ironhide got blasted in the face execution style? I guarantee that you would not feel the same if say, Energon Rodimus got torn in half, or Cybertron Red Alert got blasted (PERMANENTLY!) into a million flaky pieces.
With RID and then AEC, we lost that whole emotional element with characters that were bland, one dimensional, or just plain silly in a Japanese humor kind of way. They were difficult to relate to, compared to G1, and I think therein lies the whole issue that many so called G1 purists have taken so to heart.

Cobalt Prime wrote:
With RID and then AEC, we lost that whole emotional element with characters that were bland, one dimensional, or just plain silly in a Japanese humor kind of way. They were difficult to relate to, compared to G1, and I think therein lies the whole issue that many so called G1 purists have taken so to heart.

I think this is a big part of it here. G1 was the first we ever saw,so it kind of set the standard. How many times with things like movies or albums when we're first introduced to the product, fell in love then judge the follow ups on the original? The first becomes the measuring bar because that's what made people fall in love with it in the first place. Part of it is that feeling of getting into something new, which you cant really duplicate with sequels or anything.

Was G1 the best done show? No. Animation errors, choppy story, there's a laundry list of things wrong. But if they did something right it was the characters. You saw the characters and knew their personalities.I loved Starscreams back stabbing and Sunstreakers ego. When I watched RiD, Armada and Energon (only saw one of two of Cybertron) i felt the characters were bland and unlikeable. Decepticons were corny instead of intimidating and I couldnt take them seriously. Autobots were just lame, in particular Hot Shot and Red Alert. Hot Shot was a watered down Hot Rod and at no point could I ever seriously see him winning a fight. There wasnt anything that was intriguing about the characters, and adding in annoying as hell kids that seem to take the spotlight over the TF's half the time only made things worse.

Beast Wars was probably all in all the best writing, and it got better after season 1. My biggest beef with that show was actually the size of the characters, but that'sanother matter. When Dinobot died, it was probably the first truly sad moment since the movie.

So does G1 have it's problems? Absolutely. But it's also what set the bar for everything else becauseit was the original. It had the most diversified list of characters, and in my opinion the most interesting. That's why of the series I've seen I like G1 the most. That, and dont forget the nostalgia factor.

I think that G1 is certainly overrated by those who praise it unconditionally as well as by those who view it through rose tinted lenses of nostalgia. I am of the latter as it was my first exposure to Transformers as a kid in the 90s.

No doubt, G1 has a lot of flaws. Heck cartoons in general still have many flaws on multiple fronts. Considering that Transformers is a brand made to sell toys, it could be worse.

For me, I love G1, it's my favourite of the different eras of Transformers, but man...it's pure 80s. It's a good and bad thing. It can be cheesy but it's just full of wonderful nostalgia for me. When I first saw Classics Hound...I was brought back to childhood. Just seeing the wonderfully chunky G1-ness of the mold makes me smile, memories of the episodes I watched before school in the morning and after school in the afternoons come flooding back.

The Marvel G1 comics, though, are still better than the stuff out now. WAY BETTER. Especially starting with issue 56, when Simon Furman took over. The Back From the Dead story arc and the Unicron Saga was just untouchable. Not even Simon Furman could touch it with his later stuff. Pure awesomeness.

The Marvel Comics were really hitting their stride when the series got the axe, IMO. However, that art at the end...ugh, characters' faces almost literally melting with emotion, everybody deliveing their dialogue while screaming, complete with spit flying out of their mouths...no thanks.

But yes, the Megatron/Ratchet saga, the arrival of Unicron(which topped the animated movie, IMO) and the Megatron/Galvatron vs. Shockwave/Starscream material was top notch, the most exciting TF action we had seen up to that point, comics or TV, and probably still amongst the best.

I thought the Matrix Quest was a bit lacking(Wild West and Mobdy Dick story), though, and Furman always turns Prowl into a prick for some reason.

As for the G1 cartoon: I don't think you necessarily had to witness it at the time to appreciate it now. I think it still holds up just as well as it did back then and would take it over most of the recent TF series in a heartbeat. And I say this after re-watching all of G1(I missed many of the episodes as a kid) while slowly making my way through Energon while having watched the first 2 seasons of Animated.

The dialogue in Energon was just painful, with an ad-libbed sample to follow:

Kicker: Ironhide, are you ok?

Ironhide: I think so, Kicker....it's just that...

Kicker: What?!

Ironhide: I don't know, Kicker. It's probably nothing.

Kicker: Let me continue to whine at a high-pitch while further contemplating why robots and humans alike continue to act like I'm bearable!

Ironhide: Ok, Kicker. Let me find other ways to bastardize the reputation of my namesake.

Animated was overall well-written, but I just couldn't embrace the look of it, even though I really enjoyed the toy line(strange) and the 1st season took longer to develop than corn in the Sahara.

Also, I cannot understand why some get so bent out of shape over the animation errors in G1; for me, that's a lot of its charm and I often found the show intentionally and unintentionally funny, which added to its appeal. I mean, 3 Seekers colored like Starscream in one frame is just hilarious and episodes like "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" is just the kind of camp you don't see these days!

Double post..sorry.