The Energon Pub

ZeroWolf wrote:But what is wrong with that? More people relating if the tfs started acting more three dimensional than the parameters that only existed as background fluff for toys? What is the worst case scenario for you?

Worst case scenario for me would be a red Autobot with blonde hair tapping away on a cellphone while laying on a twin size bed drinking Engex. Worse case scenariobot would then come out of his house complete with manicured lawn with sparks adorning it, transform into a cybertronian Yaris and head to the institute. Once there he would hold hands at his desk with a masculine looking Decepticon twice his size while being taught by Cyclonus, who was in full headmistress garb. This would be the only TF comic on the market that had any hint of a G1 character left in it. I would complain on the boards about the book, and people would reply to my posts by saying "this isn't the eighties anymore".

ZeroWolf wrote:I was just talking about the g1 toon. Comics are a different beast

Exactly. That was my original point in my 1st response, as well as Cybertstrike's point, if I'm not mistaken.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I was just talking about the g1 toon. Comics are a different beast

Exactly. That was my original point in my 1st response, as well as Cybertstrike's point, if I'm not mistaken.

I thought cyberstrike was talking about the toon? Did I read the post wrong again?

It seems that everyone has a different opinion about what G1 really means. Comics or cartoons? It's immaterial. I'm referring to the Marvel and Dreamwave comics only to compare them to what is being put out now by IDW. I'm picking up what 1984 is putting down because his ideas are what the comics have been lacking for some time now.
Ok, everyone don't freak out about what I'm about to say. I wouldn't be so irritated about the self-serving and sanctimonious subplots if the comics focused more about an intergalactic war between the heroic Autobots and the evil Decepticons. I firmly believe Roberts and Barber are not interested in and maybe even incapable of writing compelling war stories. Yes, I know it's not Transformers but dig out Marvel G.I. Joe Special Missions #8 for an example of a one-shot war story. JR and JB can't do that. I'd bet a venti starbucks on it.
I get it. Not everyone is interested in war stories. But why on earth redefine a comic about a war lasting millions of years between alien robots? Roberts, Roche, Barber, Furman and Budiansky are merely caretakers of the Transformers tale. Roberts and Barber had no right changing it the way they did. MTMTE is a weird clone of Archie and TF is Mecha Captain Planet.
However, it's too late. If I'm correct about the intents and capabilities of the writers then nothing short of a reboot with a new creative team will change things.
Vote with your dollars. 8449

ZeroWolf wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I was just talking about the g1 toon. Comics are a different beast

Exactly. That was my original point in my 1st response, as well as Cybertstrike's point, if I'm not mistaken.

I thought cyberstrike was talking about the toon? Did I read the post wrong again?

You didn't, that's what he was talking about. He was saying if he wanted to see the G1 toon again, he would just go watch it, instead of read a comic that's basically the cartoon on paper, which is what 1984forever seems to be proposing. That's what I was talking about in my 1st response as well, that the toon material wouldn't work on paper, because the stories weren't complex and deep enough. They were very light and transparent, just enough to advertise the TF toys in a 22-minute cartoon.

misfire19d wrote:Roberts and Barber had no right changing it the way they did.

Hasbro owns the rights to Transformers. Hasbro licenses the rights to IDW for purposes of publishing Transformers stories. Roberts and Barber are employees of IDW who allow them to submit material for publication. So yes, they have the right to change it. IDW lets them do it, because Hasbro lets IDW do it.

The war is over if you haven't noticed, and it's been over since before mtmte existed. Plus they aren't the first to end the war. Furman himself as ended it...technically twice if you go by the run of the original comics and again in regeneration one. Then again in the mythology of beast wars, in the live action movies. It's not like this hasn't happened before. Also I like it that's ended I like how things have developed. Starscream in charge of a council of worlds? Megatron looking for redemption after realising how twisted his goals had become.

Those are the stories I want to read.

If the comics were rebooted, which is an inevitable event, the only variable being how long till it happens. I'll give them a try but if it's anything like being offered here I'll quickly get bored of its simplistic style. Comics need things to be balanced in order to be good, the current writers aren't perfect but no writer is. Roberts makes up for his shortfalls in other ways while trying to do better.

Poor mtmte though, that seems to be the target here just because it's different and you don't like it. By all means don't you read it, won't stop all of us that do like it.

So the TF comics are fine the way they are? How would Roberts put it? No. Not these comics. Never.

misfire19d wrote:It seems that everyone has a different opinion about what G1 really means. Comics or cartoons? It's immaterial. I'm referring to the Marvel and Dreamwave comics only to compare them to what is being put out now by IDW. I'm picking up what 1984 is putting down because his ideas are what the comics have been lacking for some time now.
Ok, everyone don't freak out about what I'm about to say. I wouldn't be so irritated about the self-serving and sanctimonious subplots if the comics focused more about an intergalactic war between the heroic Autobots and the evil Decepticons. I firmly believe Roberts and Barber are not interested in and maybe even incapable of writing compelling war stories. Yes, I know it's not Transformers but dig out Marvel G.I. Joe Special Missions #8 for an example of a one-shot war story. JR and JB can't do that. I'd bet a venti starbucks on it.
I get it. Not everyone is interested in war stories. But why on earth redefine a comic about a war lasting millions of years between alien robots? Roberts, Roche, Barber, Furman and Budiansky are merely caretakers of the Transformers tale. Roberts and Barber had no right changing it the way they did. MTMTE is a weird clone of Archie and TF is Mecha Captain Planet.
However, it's too late. If I'm correct about the intents and capabilities of the writers then nothing short of a reboot with a new creative team will change things.
Vote with your dollars. 8449

Well said. Very well said!

All I want from a TF comic is-

1) For the characters to act like themselves. Sorry, but the toon did a much better job of giving many Transformers a personality. If Superman's speech bubbles were interchangeable with Batman's, people would say that Supes sounded off. In IDW 90% of the dialogue between characters is indistinguishable from the next.

2) A good war story. As much as I love G1 season 1, Transformers: Exodus is my favorite tale. I want to see the Transformers at war and using tactics. I feel that people are saying that this can't be done in a comic book, and action sequences would be boring. I feel a Transformers war comic can be done, and it wouldn't sell any worse than MTMTE or TF.

3) I know that characters die in conflicts, but why does IDW kill so many characters before giving us a chance to know them? Maybe IDW feels that the characters they create to replace them with (Nautica, Drift) and the fan built bots (Windblade, Victorion) are better? Drift feels original and authentic, he's an exception. Windblade and the Torchbearers sound very much alike. Nautica sounds like the majority of everyone else on the LL, male or female.

The humanization of Transformers continues. There already exists a Transformer with hair (RID Sideswipe). They have organs, go to college, have romantic relationships and refer to themselves as people now. All these things were not occurring 5 years ago in books put out by the same company. It's not my Transformers. It's not even my son's Transformers. The pack in comics are trash to him, he can't even trade them at school for Pokemon cards and Lego people. He's 8 and a half, If he's too young for Combiner Wars then I don't know what Hasbro is trying to do here.

misfire19d wrote:So the TF comics are fine the way they are? How would Roberts put it? No. Not these comics. Never.

But that's just your opinion, it may be shared by 1984 but then again my opinion is shared with others as well. So what makes your opinion better than mine? Nothing, same goes about my opinion being better than yours. If you don't like then that's your prerogative.

1984@ according to hasbro at the last toyfair, your son is still in their rid age target. However don't bade everything just because your son doesn't like them.

Also you made a comment about sideswipe with hair? And with alpha Trion having a full beard and moustache going on? Pot meet kettle.

End of the day, it's up to idw and hasbro to decide what happens to the comics, and we're only 30% of their market

It's hard to believe that Hasbro execs think 8yr olds are babies. I Forgot about Alpha Trion and Scourge, their facial hair kind of grew on me. Sideswipe however, is ridiculous.

I edited my original post to add more about the Transformers origin, and to address an earlier comment made that never got a reply concerning how could the Autobots be losing when they outnumbered the Decepticons.

It may be viewed as a waste of time by some. But it's just me giving an example of how I would fix glitches regarding gender, and the reasons why the Transformers were created. It's my attempt to show how a cast of hundreds could be used in stories. Every Transformer is somebodies favorite character. Different Transformers would be sent out to battle every arc for variety instead of using Whirl, Swerve, Tailgate, Rewind and others for 50 issues constantly when there are 200 other mechs on the ship. Modern storytelling techniques that link sub plots and arcs together would still apply.

Sorry, 1984 still not feeling it plus I'm not sure what you've actually changed other than saying that megs gets air warriors (guessing these are just the miscoloured seeker errors)

ZeroWolf wrote:Sorry, 1984 still not feeling it plus I'm not sure what you've actually changed other than saying that megs gets air warriors (guessing these are just the miscoloured seeker errors)

Those miscolored errors have names now, Bitstream, Hotlink, Nova Storm, Ion Storm etc. The purple air warriors were always some of my favorite characters because they remind me of the Cobra troopers.

Many people haven't been feeling the Transformers titles as a whole for years. According to Comichron, not only is MLP outselling the Transformers, the TF comics are among IDWs worst selling titles. Yes readership started to drop off during the Dreamwave days because IMO their version of Transformers was just not authentic enough. I enjoyed the DW stuff, but their stories could have been way better. Readership continued to drop off when IDW picked it up. Attempts to humanize Transformers to make them more relateable are failing. Those thousands of old TF comic fans didn't die off, they stopped reading because they didn't like the material! You sir, are in the minority.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:Action in comics bore the hell out of me. Give me a character driven stories oh wait I got MTMTE and The Transformers from IDW not a retread of an 80s cartoon show, which I can watch anytime I want.

Not sure why you would want to, they are nothing special compared to everything that came out afterwards

I think what he meant was that if he wanted G1 cartoon-style action and story, he would just watch the G1 cartoon, not read a comic book version if it, as 1984forever proposed. I agree mostly, with the exception that action in comics, especially TF comics, are not boring if done right, especially 1-on-1 fights. Optimus vs. Thunderwing in Marvel #66 and Shockwave vs. Scorponok in #72 and #73 come to mind, Furman paced those fights very well. I haven't seen MTMTE even come close in fights, even if their stories are pretty good. (Still not as good as G1.)

Fights in MTMTE that are really good:
Ratchet vs Pharma

Star Saber vs Ultra Magnus

Overlord vs. the whole damn ship

Grimlock and the Scavengers vs The DJD

Black Shadow vs. the DJD

But after 30+ years of reading comics fights in general bore the hell out of me, because I've read so many they tend to blur together. So unless it's super violent and/or gory like Miracleman #15 or over-the-top like the The Ultimates vol. 1 #12 I tend not remember battles much.

I do tend to remember character-driven stories more, and honestly find them more enjoyable than seeing Optimus Prime fight Megatron for the 98756432524th time.

1984forever wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Sorry, 1984 still not feeling it plus I'm not sure what you've actually changed other than saying that megs gets air warriors (guessing these are just the miscoloured seeker errors)

Those miscolored errors have names now, Bitstream, Hotlink, Nova Storm, Ion Storm etc. The purple air warriors were always some of my favorite characters because they remind me of the Cobra troopers.

Many people haven't been feeling the Transformers titles as a whole for years. According to Comichron, not only is MLP outselling the Transformers, the TF comics are among IDWs worst selling titles. Yes readership started to drop off during the Dreamwave days because IMO their version of Transformers was just not authentic enough. I enjoyed the DW stuff, but their stories could have been way better. Readership continued to drop off when IDW picked it up. Attempts to humanize Transformers to make them more relateable are failing. Those thousands of old TF comic fans didn't die off, they stopped reading because they didn't like the material! You sir, are in the minority.

Actually I think you're in the minority almost every TF fansites that I go to beyond here are filled to brim with nothing but love for MTMTE and at least a decent liking and/or grudging respect for The Transformers. Hell I've been threaten with bannings for NOT loving The Last Stand of the Wreckers and saying it just OK or that I found too predictable, fanwanky, preachy, and overrated and the art was dodgy.

However IMHO the two issues during the Chaos Theory arc written by James Roberts is the GREATEST story and the greatest characterizations of Optimus Prime and Megatron in the history of the franchise in any media.

They appear to be selling well enough for a third ongoing (we'll see how long if lasts) title and multiple mini-series and one-shots. And in this age of constantly restarting titles every 5 seconds it seems that the fact that IDW is still not canceling and restarting the books again means they're happy or at least content with their sales. Also most comic book sales are generally low and some titles are saved by the sales of the various TPBs and HCs and with the growing digital comic market. They also seem to be gaining new readers for every fan like you they lose.

The attempt to humanize the characters is why I love this era I am sick of seeing the Transformer get nothing in characterization beyond their old stock characterizations from the 80s, (with some characters like Swerve and Tailgate getting characterizations that use their tech specs as a starting point but continue one in new, different, and exciting directions)

I can watch all the cartoon shows (I got all them that have been released in the US except for Rescue Robots and the original and new RID on DVD and/or Blu-Ray) and if I wanted to read the Marvel series I'll read them I got the original issues, the Titan trades and hardcovers, on my book case and easy to reach, or barring that I can just buy the new IDW ones.

But in the end I don't want to read just a dumb action comic book with bland 2D characters and go nowhere storylines that really insults my intelligence. Been there. Done that. Don't want anymore. I DEMAND my media to be better than that crap like Dreamwave and Micheal Bay movies now of days. If IDW stops making the comics I want to read for your kind of nonsense and stop trying to attract new readers, and just to cater only to aging G1 fanboys like myself, then I'm done with them and will turn my attention, time, and most importantly my money to other series, characters, and companies that will give me what I demand.

1984, you're right with an exception. We are both part of minorities, after all how many people who don't read/dropped the current stuff will agree with you...I'm willing to bet the majority don't have your tastes.

There's something else you have failed to take into account with you wants...its 2016. You complain of tfs been humanised but they are just matching the comics industry with their moves (and by they I mean hasbro). In fact I don't think hasbro would care much about your idea to green light it, after all they think they are catering to the old guard enough as it is.

It seems no one on these boards has considered the possibility that most of you are wrong.

The reason why less cerebral titles like MLP outsell more intellectual titles like MTMTE is because when most people pick up a comic book they want to see their favorite characters in action. They don't want to see them crying over a drink, or seeking redemption for acts committed. Maybe they picked up the book to see a certain character do MORE of what they're known for doing and got disapointed when they saw that the character has changed. So they put the title down and picked up something else by another company, or maybe they found something else to do outside of a Transformers comic book, like play video games.

Maybe modern storytelling techniques in comics don't appeal to prospective new readers. Maybe they prefer self contained stories that don't require looking back 20-30 issues just to fully understand what's going on.

I'm quite sure IDW would risk angering the 9000 of you out there that are left if it meant they could get there numbers back up to 15,000 or 30,000.

It doesn't look like it's hurting the leaders of the comic industry or the big three companies. Or even valiant for that matter. But of course your right...I mean what does marvel know? Or DC? or image? I also think your greatly overestimating the potential fan base for you ideas, I think it would be much less than 9000.

ZeroWolf wrote:It doesn't look like it's hurting the leaders of the comic industry or the big three companies. Or even valiant for that matter. But of course your right...I mean what does marvel know? Or DC? or image? I also think your greatly overestimating the potential fan base for you ideas, I think it would be much less than 9000.

No, I believe both Marvel and DC comic sales have been in decline for the last 15 to 20 years, maybe even longer than that. It's time for the comic industry to stop blaming video games and other things and consider the fact that their offerings are not as good as they believe them to be. It trips me out how James Roberts is acclaimed as this great TF writer on all the boards, but he only manages to sell a few hundred more copies than Barber each month.

So everyone is wrong and you're the only one who is right? or the simplest solution is you're wrong, nothing wrong with that of course. Though out of curiosity sake...what did you think of the new star wars movie

ZeroWolf wrote:So everyone is wrong and you're the only one who is right? or the simplest solution is you're wrong, nothing wrong with that of course. Though out of curiosity sake...what did you think of the new star wars movie

Funny you should ask, I just downloaded it from Amazon this morning. I loved it. I saw it the Thursday it came out in December and I just had to own it. Looking forward to the rest. I saw how the fans were bashing Phantom Menace etc, watched it again and I loved it too. Trust me, I'm not stuck in the past.

1984forever wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:So everyone is wrong and you're the only one who is right? or the simplest solution is you're wrong, nothing wrong with that of course. Though out of curiosity sake...what did you think of the new star wars movie

Funny you should ask, I just downloaded it from Amazon this morning. I loved it. I saw it the Thursday it came out in December and I just had to own it. Looking forward to the rest. I saw how the fans were bashing Phantom Menace etc, watched it again and I loved it too. Trust me, I'm not stuck in the past.

that's good then it is a good movie

1984forever wrote:It trips me out how James Roberts is acclaimed as this great TF writer on all the boards, but he only manages to sell a few hundred more copies than Barber each month.

Roberts is NOT a *great* TF writer. I could write a comic as well as he does! I'm not saying he's bad, because MTMTE is pretty good, but he can't hold a candle to Furman from the 80s.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

1984forever wrote:It trips me out how James Roberts is acclaimed as this great TF writer on all the boards, but he only manages to sell a few hundred more copies than Barber each month.

Roberts is NOT a *great* TF writer. I could write a comic as well as he does! I'm not saying he's bad, because MTMTE is pretty good, but he can't hold a candle to Furman from the 80s.

To be fair though, furman can't hold a candle to 80s furman.

I do think Roberts is a great writer though, and I think he would be brilliant at writing for my favourite sci-fi comedy series, Red Dwarf. Again however I should point out that one man's great author is another man's shoddy author. It's all subjective.

I wonder what furman thinks of Roberts.

Has anyone ever asked him what he thought of the answers to his plot hooks (which he was forced to leave hanging when revelation was cut back and it's follow up cancelled) that other writers crafted

Well, I'm back from botcon. Good show. I'm going to make a third party purchase from TFSource to protest what botcon did to them.

Anyways...

Stagnation. Transformers has been well past the point of stagnation and can now be considered in a state of entropy. Other comic companies bring in new creative teams to breathe new life into their books. I think that is what is needed now. Just please don't let it be Romita Jr. He's as overrated as Scioli and almost as bad.

Hand the reigns over to Roche for 24 issues on MTMTE. See what happens. He's got more action and battles with actual context and purpose in Sins of the Wreckers. In the mean time, Roberts and Barber should read some war stories. Here's a link http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/12/0 ... about-war/ . See? Easy. Get some ideas and a base of knowledge. Just google books about war and there ya go. I hope they got a library card. Just don't recite the Charge of the Light Brigade in a story. It didn't fit the narrative and seemed to be a ham-fisted attempt at melodrama.

A big problem with all comics is the lack of narrative and content. I believe comics have been dumbed down to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Relax. I'm not talking about the TF readers. This is a big problem in Mickey's Marvel comics. Each page maybe has 5 to 6 sentences and 6 simple panels. IDW has reduced the amount of pages and $4 is too much for 20 pages. But I believe that has more to do with profitability than marketing.