The Energon Pub

Autobot032 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:so if megan compared michael bay to stalin/genghis khan/attila/tamerlane/vlad the impaler she'd still be in DoTM?

The very logic of this question astounds me.

Why? It's fair to ask. A lot of people are going to cite the Hitler/Jewish link, and to some extent they're right.

I still say Spielberg has that right, btw.

However, I still believe her past exploits didn't help matters much. Spielberg is not a stupid man. I know he's seen all she's done, this was just one step too far for him to take any more of her crap.

It just came off as a very silly way to bring it up, considering how serious to many people the Holocaust is. Maybe with a dash of "it's in the past, let it go," which is just plain wrong.

Of course I could be wrong, and probably am. Just the way I read it is all.

yup, i was aiming at the hitler/jewish thing. was megan comparing michael to hitler in the political or the military aspect? adolf's a fine politician but a horrible,horrible military commander who keeps barging in against his battle planners strategies(to horrible results). if michael was doing something like that (either to the script or other aspects) in the set then megan HAS a point, otherwise people are right to bash her. now if she used another person (i vote stalin because he had the same problem as adolf) would she not have received as much flak as she did?

Optimus Primevil wrote:yup, i was aiming at the hitler/jewish thing. was megan comparing michael to hitler in the political or the military aspect? adolf's a fine politician but a horrible,horrible military commander who keeps barging in against his battle planners strategies(to horrible results). if michael was doing something like that (either to the script or other aspects) in the set then megan HAS a point, otherwise people are right to bash her. now if she used another person (i vote stalin because he had the same problem as adolf) would she not have received as much flak as she did?

No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period! This is just common sence. and IMO using Stalin wouldn't have been any better. Would she have recieved any less flack? Maybe. Either way, no excuse.

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere ive worked. The phrase "he's a little hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere ive worked. The phrase "he's a little hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

edited to stay out of trouble...no matter how funny it may have been.

Counterpunch wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere ive worked. The phrase "he's a little hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

Well over here, people DO say it, and get away with it. Its not even somethings thats gasped at. Maybe as i said before that there is a big difference in that area between the UK, and the US

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere ive worked. The phrase "he's a little hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

Well over here, people DO say it, and get away with it. Its not even somethings thats gasped at. Maybe as i said before that there is a big difference in that area between the UK, and the US

Though neiter are right, there's a big difference when your talking about your boss by the water cooler with your coworkers, and blasting him in a TV/newspaper interview were thousand of people will be reading it. And as i said, just because people get away with it were you are, doesn't make it right.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about hitler in the political or military sence. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere ive worked. The phrase "he's a little hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

Well over here, people DO say it, and get away with it. Its not even somethings thats gasped at. Maybe as i said before that there is a big difference in that area between the UK, and the US

Though neiter are right, there's a big difference when your talking about your boss by the water cooler with your coworkers, and blasting him in a TV/newspaper interview were thousand of people will be reading it. And as i said, just because people get away with it were you are, doesn't make it right.

I didnt say it was right, it was more the point that a big whirl has been made out of something, and the people i know dont thinks a big deal in any way, maybe as ive said that its more to the mood in the UK.

you think megan was bad for mouthing off in public against his boss? how about a variety show host who ORDERED the network bosses to fire off a radio host (who pointed out that one of the VS hosts segments was exploitive) or else HE'LL move to a rival network and bring his audience with him...on live television. the same network bosses who saved his ass multiple times when he got embroiled in game fixing, sexual harassment, being disrespectful to a deceased president and accomplice to accidental mass killing cases.

probably not that bad but add a hitler comparison and see what you get?

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about Hitler in the political or military sense. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere I've worked. The phrase "he's a little Hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

Well over here, people DO say it, and get away with it. Its not even somethings that's gasped at. Maybe as i said before that there is a big difference in that area between the UK, and the US

Though neither are right, there's a big difference when your talking about your boss by the water cooler with your coworkers, and blasting him in a TV/newspaper interview were thousand of people will be reading it. And as I said, just because people get away with it were you are, doesn't make it right.

This. A thousand times this.

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I didn't say it was right, it was more the point that a big whirl has been made out of something, and the people I know don't thinks a big deal in any way, maybe as I've said that it's more to the mood in the UK.

It's a big something. And you're right, the humor in the US and the UK is different. The British generally hide their feelings and keep a stiff upper lip. There are cracks and jokes about it, but it's true. Most British folk are very reserved and find levity in things that most do not. That's not saying it's a bad quality, but there is a difference. However, I do know there are plenty of British folk who are sensitive to such matters and understand.

This reminds me of Jimmy Carr telling the most offensive jokes. (For those of you who don't know who he is, Google him or check on Youtube. The entire bit's on there.) He told a joke about the Holocaust and the audience laughed and even he said "Really London? Really?" He explained why people laugh at it, but you could tell it shocked him by their reaction. So if a Brit comic can be taken aback by people in his audience, and he gets why it's appalling, then even your co-workers should be able to understand why it's offensive. They may not agree, but they can't be that oblivious.

And you may find us Americans to be too sensitive, but you know what? Big deal. Anyone with a modicum of understanding will say "Oh wait, he's Jewish and he has personal ties to the Holocaust and this little tart called her boss Hitler. No wonder she got fired."

It's really not that hard to grasp. I mean no offense here, but seriously, spelling it out shouldn't be necessary.

did they elaborate the reasoning for megan's firing or is that one comment the whole reason?

Autobot032 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: No, she didn't have any point. Doesn't matter whether or not she was talking about Hitler in the political or military sense. You just don't make that comparison to your boss period!

I did make the point that where i am its an extremely common phrase about your boss. Ive heard it pretty much everywhere I've worked. The phrase "he's a little Hitler" is used probably daily.

Just thought id say that

I'd fire anyone who worked for me and called me that. I'd fire them on account of them being so stupid to say it in earshot of me in the first place.

I don't know what's worse, the petty insult or the gross stupidity of saying something like that in a public domain.

Well over here, people DO say it, and get away with it. Its not even somethings that's gasped at. Maybe as i said before that there is a big difference in that area between the UK, and the US

Though neither are right, there's a big difference when your talking about your boss by the water cooler with your coworkers, and blasting him in a TV/newspaper interview were thousand of people will be reading it. And as I said, just because people get away with it were you are, doesn't make it right.

This. A thousand times this.

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I didn't say it was right, it was more the point that a big whirl has been made out of something, and the people I know don't thinks a big deal in any way, maybe as I've said that it's more to the mood in the UK.

It's a big something. And you're right, the humor in the US and the UK is different. The British generally hide their feelings and keep a stiff upper lip. There are cracks and jokes about it, but it's true. Most British folk are very reserved and find levity in things that most do not. That's not saying it's a bad quality, but there is a difference. However, I do know there are plenty of British folk who are sensitive to such matters and understand.

This reminds me of Jimmy Carr telling the most offensive jokes. (For those of you who don't know who he is, Google him or check on Youtube. The entire bit's on there.) He told a joke about the Holocaust and the audience laughed and even he said "Really London? Really?" He explained why people laugh at it, but you could tell it shocked him by their reaction. So if a Brit comic can be taken aback by people in his audience, and he gets why it's appalling, then even your co-workers should be able to understand why it's offensive. They may not agree, but they can't be that oblivious.

And you may find us Americans to be too sensitive, but you know what? Big deal. Anyone with a modicum of understanding will say "Oh wait, he's Jewish and he has personal ties to the Holocaust and this little tart called her boss Hitler. No wonder she got fired."

It's really not that hard to grasp. I mean no offense here, but seriously, spelling it out shouldn't be necessary.

I didnt say that the US was too sensitive, and im not going to get pulled into an argument about it. I was just pointing out that perhaps its not such a big thing from our point of view. Im sure the US (as a general, as most stereotypes are, including us brits) finds things funny that the UK would find offensive. Im also sure that alot in the US found some comments towards other religions humorous when others wouldnt. Hell, my religion has faced persecution on a much greater scale, but because it wasnt so recent its forgotten about. Point being we could all take offence to anything, the best way to get around that is shrug it off.

As for Jimmy Carr, yes he can be a bit OTT, bt there are stacks of comedians in this country that go way further than him, and show no remorse, Franckie Boil, Tubby Brown, the list could go on. Its just the sense of humour here. Maybe its right maybe its wrong.

On top of that, i dont think calling people that you dont know "little tart" helps things either. In fact, wasnt it well publicised that she was extremely uncomfortable about playing the eye candy role? Im thinking a "tart" wouldnt be. Or are you saying its not ok for her to speak her mind about him, but its fine for you to do the same? Smells of double standards.

We have no idea whats gone on, we have thier side, we have her side, and we have the media side, and i wouldnt believe a single one of them.

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I didnt say that the US was too sensitive

I'll say it, and I'm from here. Too often people seem to look for a reason to be offended even when there shouldn't be one... It would be one thing if she made a crack about him being Jewish, but she didn't nor did she even come close. Sure, it was a poor comparison, but that it woulda been acceptable if he wasn't Jewish or the comparison was to Stalin or someone else is beyond stupid. The funny thing is people are acting like Fox is the biggest b*tch of all time, but the rest of them are all fine, wonderful people. Uh-huh...

Optimus Primevil wrote:you think megan was bad for mouthing off in public against his boss? how about a variety show host who ORDERED the network bosses to fire off a radio host (who pointed out that one of the VS hosts segments was exploitive) or else HE'LL move to a rival network and bring his audience with him...on live television. the same network bosses who saved his ass multiple times when he got embroiled in game fixing, sexual harassment, being disrespectful to a deceased president and accomplice to accidental mass killing cases.

probably not that bad but add a hitler comparison and see what you get?

Well were not talking about that. Were talking about Megan and her coments.

Optimus Primevil wrote:did they elaborate the reasoning for megan's firing or is that one comment the whole reason?

From what i understand she was a "pre-madonna" on set, very demanding and very, very hard to work with. So the coment was the straw that broke the camels back.

Pottermus_Prime wrote: Point being we could all take offence to anything, the best way to get around that is shrug it off.

Very, very true. I do believe to this day we still live in a world that is overly politicaly correct. BUt in this case, for me, its more about respect.
Bay is the director. He is the boss. What he says on set goes. You'vve worked with him on two prior movies. You know who is is. This is nothing new for you. If you had a problem either getting along with him, or the way he directs, then you should have respecfully declined the 3rd movie.
Her coment was disrespectfull as well as insulting. You just don't make these type of coments out in the open public. Especialy to the person that controls whether or not you will be having a job.So you see, its not about shruging it off. Its about letting her know(as well as others that you employ) that you will not tolerate disrespect and insults.

Kibble wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I didnt say that the US was too sensitive

I'll say it, and I'm from here. Too often people seem to look for a reason to be offended even when there shouldn't be one... It would be one thing if she made a crack about him being Jewish, but she didn't nor did she even come close. Sure, it was a poor comparison, but that it woulda been acceptable if he wasn't Jewish or the comparison was to Stalin or someone else is beyond stupid. The funny thing is people are acting like Fox is the biggest b*tch of all time, but the rest of them are all fine, wonderful people. Uh-huh...

Next time you go to work, angrily call your boss Hitler. Then count the seconds between then and you getting fired. People don't like being compared to Hitler, much less Jewish people. (Historical fact, Hitler killed six million Jewish people simply for being Jewish, can you imagine how they might get angry over such a thing?) It's not called being too sensitive, it's called not being a total prick.

Shadowman wrote:

Kibble wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I didnt say that the US was too sensitive

I'll say it, and I'm from here. Too often people seem to look for a reason to be offended even when there shouldn't be one... It would be one thing if she made a crack about him being Jewish, but she didn't nor did she even come close. Sure, it was a poor comparison, but that it woulda been acceptable if he wasn't Jewish or the comparison was to Stalin or someone else is beyond stupid. The funny thing is people are acting like Fox is the biggest b*tch of all time, but the rest of them are all fine, wonderful people. Uh-huh...

Next time you go to work, angrily call your boss Hitler. Then count the seconds between then and you getting fired. People don't like being compared to Hitler, much less Jewish people. (Historical fact, Hitler killed six million Jewish people simply for being Jewish, can you imagine how they might get angry over such a thing?) It's not called being too sensitive, it's called not being a total prick.

I have seen it done and said to bosses, every one has shrugged it off. EVERYONE!! People in my religion were persecuted, tortured and murdered by supposed "saints" am i to be offended or angry every time i see or hear of them? No, i let it go, its history. (we still dont know 100% she was fired, its just what we are told. She very well might have said sod it)

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:you think megan was bad for mouthing off in public against his boss? how about a variety show host who ORDERED the network bosses to fire off a radio host (who pointed out that one of the VS hosts segments was exploitive) or else HE'LL move to a rival network and bring his audience with him...on live television. the same network bosses who saved his ass multiple times when he got embroiled in game fixing, sexual harassment, being disrespectful to a deceased president and accomplice to accidental mass killing cases.

probably not that bad but add a hitler comparison and see what you get?

Well were not talking about that. Were talking about Megan and her coments.

Optimus Primevil wrote:did they elaborate the reasoning for megan's firing or is that one comment the whole reason?

From what i understand she was a "pre-madonna" on set, very demanding and very, very hard to work with. So the coment was the straw that broke the camels back.

Pottermus_Prime wrote: Point being we could all take offence to anything, the best way to get around that is shrug it off.

Very, very true. I do believe to this day we still live in a world that is overly politicaly correct. BUt in this case, for me, its more about respect.
Bay is the director. He is the boss. What he says on set goes. You'vve worked with him on two prior movies. You know who is is. This is nothing new for you. If you had a problem either getting along with him, or the way he directs, then you should have respecfully declined the 3rd movie.
Her coment was disrespectfull as well as insulting. You just don't make these type of coments out in the open public. Especialy to the person that controls whether or not you will be having a job.So you see, its not about shruging it off. Its about letting her know(as well as others that you employ) that you will not tolerate disrespect and insults.

I give to your point there mate, if he did find it offensive to the point he couldnt work with her, then i say he did the best thing in gettin rid of her, bad atmosphere means a poor film.

Anyhows, these are only my opinions, and maybe im a great big idiot too for thinking it aint that bad. As ive said earlier in the thread, its nice to see a heated discussion on the web where it doesnt turn into anything nasty. I respect all you've all said, im jst gonna agree to disagree with you and look forward to wednesday woot!!!

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I have seen it done and said to bosses, every one has shrugged it off. EVERYONE!! People in my religion were persecuted, tortured and murdered by supposed "saints" am i to be offended or angry every time i see or hear of them? No, i let it go, its history.

You don't just "let go" genocide that left a massive impact on your people and your cultural history.

Shadowman wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:I have seen it done and said to bosses, every one has shrugged it off. EVERYONE!! People in my religion were persecuted, tortured and murdered by supposed "saints" am i to be offended or angry every time i see or hear of them? No, i let it go, its history.

You don't just "let go" genocide that left a massive impact on your people and your cultural history.

Ok, i will then feel disgusted and horrified when people talk well of the romans, and christians, jews, anyone else that ever persecuted my people. Or is that ok because it was thousands of years ago?

What happened is so vile, and disgusting, the only thing worse is that its happened before, and will happen again, the only way it wont is if people let go of the hatred. It serves nobody. In fact, you could argue its happening again now.

Shadowman wrote:Next time you go to work, angrily call your boss Hitler. Then count the seconds between then and you getting fired. People don't like being compared to Hitler, much less Jewish people. (Historical fact, Hitler killed six million Jewish people simply for being Jewish, can you imagine how they might get angry over such a thing?) It's not called being too sensitive, it's called not being a total prick.

SMH... In context. Decide for yourself:

"God, I really wish I could go loose on this one. He's like Napoleon and he wants to create this insane, infamous mad-man reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is. So he's a nightmare to work for but when you get him away from set, and he's not in director mode, I kind of really enjoy his personality because he's so awkward, so hopelessly awkward. He has no social skills at all. And it's endearing to watch him. He's vulnerable and fragile in real life and then on set he's a tyrant. Shia and I almost die when we make a Transformers movie. He has you do some really insane things that insurance would never let you do."

I'll stand by it. If you're that butthurt over this, IMO you're too damn sensitive. She's saying the same thing EVERYONE says about Bay, he's a PITA to work for and he's demanding as all get out! Once again, a great choice? No, mostly because there are too many PC pusses that will look for foul in it. Hell, if it were me, I'd be more put off by 'awkward, no social skills' part. But from what I just read, there's nothing malicious there and absolutely nothing anti-Semitic. And your 'go in and angrily call your boss Hitler' argument is also flawed because it never happened. That above quote, most people could say something pretty similar and there would be no issue.

You see, that's what I mean, you still haven't grasped the concept. It isn't about sensitivity, it's about common sense and decency.

I've said all along, starting 17 pages back, that it was a poor choice to say...not sure what more you want there. But I'll still maintain that it's an overreaction to be butthurt over it and especially to fire someone for it.

Kibble wrote:I've said all along, starting 17 pages back, that it was a poor choice to say...not sure what more you want there. But I'll still maintain that it's an overreaction to be butthurt over it and especially to fire someone for it.

So if you were directly compared to a dictator and mass murderer, you'd be a-okay with it?

Shadowman wrote:So if you were directly compared to a dictator and mass murderer, you'd be a-okay with it?

Once again (I feel like I'm just repeating myself here,) it's all about context and intent. I'm going to be as okay with it as I'm going to be with someone calling me a control freak. If it's a fair statement, I'm not going to be upset by it...

If someone compares you to George Washington are you going to be all offended because he was a slave owner? Unless that's oddly the point of the comparison, that's just stupid...

I have to agree. It makes much more sense to be the excuse rather than the cause. I would be hard pressed to respect any adult that couldn't take such an offhand comment in his or her stride.