The Energon Pub

Just had to copy the message for own thread from other thread:

Do the weapons have any kind of special function in battles?
I think they should, like air-to-air hit only bots/cons that have alt-mode that can fly, same goes for underwater-surface-air weapons and etc. with bonus damage to certain alt-modes. Do they have such system? I really would suggest that to the host, mods and other HQ here. Will these be in V2? Consideration possible?

I would really recommend this thing to be working in V2!
I would be so much more challenging and a bit realistic too.

Some weapons will have secondary effects, though I don't think they're the kind of effects you're thinking of.

What you re suggesting, weapons that attack only air targets or only ground targets, will be mostly seen in tactics. Dogfight for example will allow you to fight air-to-air, while strafe attacks air-to-ground etc.

As for dealing more damage to specific altmodes, I don't think we're at that part of the game yet. I'd love to implement size where bigger mechs could lay the smack down of smaller mechs, assuming they can actually hit them.

I hope that answers your question

and here's the big problem with this, if say dogfight hits only air alts then sometimes it'll be about as good as repair in the arena is now#,which is useless, and completely screws the level system up, becuase while the bot your facing might be a level 7 if take away his dogfight stat(becuase he has no target's to use it on) he's actually a level 6 or 4 or whatever.

another thing is the mechanics due to how strafe works the higher the ration of enemy target's to allies the better, if you start making some alts not on the target list, you start concentrating strafe onto less enemies

which is kinda isn't what strafe's about, strafe's about hitting lots of targets

god forbid the mechanics count only hits against enemey flyers, and disregard enemy groundunits and freindlies

that would make strafe completely useless.

and then we move into the problems of demographics is ther going to be a equal amount of flyers/non-flyers, in the new game, and how the relative ratios of each sides populations of each will determine tactic viablilty, and that is something that can't be balanced without forcing players to to have teams of so many flyers so many non flyers.

EDIT: and the distinction is moot once you consider that our character's aren't tanks/jets/car all the the time, half of them are robots who can at least jump, or fly, or ride other jets, or flying dinosuars, or gorillas on hover boards.

I thought the question was about only weapons, not tactics.
So, i don't see the problem with this suggestion.

Only ground units can use air-to-air weapons (they follow an avoiding target?),
while air units do the same with Dogfight.
And only water units do the same with Underwater-surface-to-air weapons.
Perhaps, Photon weapons for only battle Stations? It would really make the battles more exciting.

and make it near impossible for the casual gamer to play, picking your missions would become the main focus, dial up users would be screwed, and suddenly you find out that megatron's had the crap kicked out of him by seaspray....


except that megatron can fly, and optimus prime has hydrfoils, and all the g1 transformers can work perfectly fine underwater


and then theirs the whole size issue, what's a see to wheelie is just a paddling pool to trypticon.

Impossible? I don't see how...
However, not all weapons need special function, just those specific weapons, that allows dial ups as well.

Unless, they do proper tactics for the alt-modes, i'd recommend.

I'm talking about the tactics,

but it really doesn't make sense as TFs are pretty much all terrain, from space, to undersea, to inside volcanoes and their weapons work there pretty much whatever they are.

the problem with having attacks limited to certian types of TF is that it means people will be disadvantaged unless they join specific missions which promotes staying out of missions(I've got an anti aircraft canon so i'm only going to enter missions where the oppositions aircraft) and exacerbates any difference between faction populations at each level.

Wouldn't it be still good that everyone has weakness and own strengths? I saw V2 FAQ, I'm pleased with anti-aircraft tactic.

The Mysterious wrote:Wouldn't it be still good that everyone has weakness and own strengths? I saw V2 FAQ, I'm pleased with anti-aircraft tactic.

they currently do, i don't see any reason to change to a pokemon style system.

i don't like the anti-aircraft tactic becuase its a knock-off strafe and doesn't make any sense since most anti aircraft guns are/were howitzers and auto-cannons, both of which are also highly capabale of damaging ground based targets, which was the orginal intetions of the first anti-aircraft guns.

most modern AA systems are missle systems becuase with the threat of nuclear bombs letting even a single plane in isn't an option.

EDIT: as for underwater to surface/air missile I'm looking at cruise missles, which can be launched from pretty much anything be they plane,ship, tank, submarine

gatling guns are the same, it's more a case of what you mount the gun on and what you aim it at which determines the role of the gun, not the gun itself. usually their mounted on aircraft for ground support(a10s), but also for dog fighting(how many aircraft for dogfighting don't have guns), and the gau8-avenger is also used in an anti-aicraft role when not mounted in a warthog

I don't recall pokemons having weapons... lol!
Weakness doesn't make it like a pokemon, IMO.

I don't understand your point, but anyway, maybe you're aircraft type and fear your weakness?

The Mysterious wrote:I don't recall pokemons having weapons... lol!
Weakness doesn't make it like a pokemon, IMO.

I don't understand your point, but anyway, maybe you're aircraft type and fear your weakness?

paper rock scissors then.

my point is this, you mount a minigun on a jet and it's a dogfighting weapon, you mount a minigun on a helicopter and it's a ground support weapon, you mount a minigun on the back of a truck and it's an anti aircraft weapon.

you mount a minigun on a seeker then when he's in jet mode it's a dogfighting weapon, when he's flying in robot mode it's a ground support weapon, and when he's on the ground, aiming at the aerielbots flying over head it's an anti air weapon.

and considering what i've seen of the types aircraft are going to pwn you all in v2 becuase they'll have multiple tactics feeding of the same stat, which will also give them better weapons.

Ah, so that is the point, but i'd still suggest.
Let's let HQ of HMW decide.

The Mysterious wrote:Ah, so that is the point, but i'd still suggest.
Let's let HQ of HMW decide.

you do realise i am a staff member right?

Nope. Cause there's no way of knowing until you're told who's in the support staff and who isn't.

Jesus Prime has a point as well.

The Mysterious wrote:Jesus Prime has a point as well.

Most people regret saying that.

well the staff are IIRC

Omega Sentinel
Mkall, Caelus, & Alpha Strike(MIA)
Sprokitz, Soundwave, Hoistimus, Windracer, Lucky, and myself,

Understood Tammuz, sir.

Tammuz wrote:

The Mysterious wrote:Ah, so that is the point, but i'd still suggest.
Let's let HQ of HMW decide.

you do realise i am a staff member right?

And a competent one at that.

Like you guys I was suggesting ideas that would make the game more "realistic", but Tammuz convinced me that fun was a higher priority in this game than realism, and having the game be unbalanced very much so cramps the fun part.

And that's what it comes down to really, balancing. There is no way using the present system to make the weapons target-specific and still be balanced, as their value would constatntly fluctuate depending on player demographics.

You can try to suggest ideas for a system that would take this into account if you want, but at that point you're basically asking OS to scrap v2, start over, and release v3 after another year or more of work.

Since the OP is a little misleading I'll just ask. Will actual weapons have effects or states attached to their attacks? Like getting hit a fusion cannon has a 10% chance to stun (they can't attack for X period of time) an opponent or like a 20% to knockdown an opponent? Will any weapons have damage over time effects?

lkavadas wrote:Since the OP is a little misleading I'll just ask. Will actual weapons have effects or states attached to their attacks? Like getting hit a fusion cannon has a 10% chance to stun (they can't attack for X period of time) an opponent or like a 20% to knockdown an opponent? Will any weapons have damage over time effects?

:cough:kremzeek:cough:

Dammed paper dust and allergies.

Edit: double checking the v2 FAQ thread, I see this question has already been answered once, so I won't be so evasive afterall. Currently, stunning and strafing weapons are planned.

I don't know where we are on the "venom" front - last I knew we were simply representing toxins and poisons as stun effects.

Personally, I'd also like to see tools as options for those who'd like an additional means of repairing their teammates. I'd be interested in the option to equip an Arc-Welder Rifle or a Laser Scalpel. I wouldn't expect to see those with v2.0 though, if ever.

Oi, I just lost a very long, ranting post.

Basically, my proposal for game features is that alt modes have specific penalties that can be incurred during combat. Then weapons could be made that have an increased chance of causing that penalty against certain alt modes.

For example, a race car might have a penalty called Flat Tire, which is represented as a speed penalty and a penalty to the chance of using Avoid. Then a weapon could be made, perhaps called Spike Trap, with a +90% chance of causing the Flat Tire penalty against race cars.

I dislike the idea that weapons are target specific becuase it throws off the leveling system, say our guy Speedcop, is using the SPike trap weapon, he walks into a mission where he doesn't get any opposition he can use it on, it's all jets and tanks and dinosaurs, suddenly all the upgrades he's got to wield the spike trap lose are near worthless, unless he's got FP/skill fed tactics, which could be quite a large part of his setup, sunddely he's not actually a level 3, but a level 2 with so many useless upgrades.

sure we can say that it was stupid of the commander to put him in that mission, but that goes over like a lead balloon, and we face the same problem as we do with low level medics(I.e there usaully shite unless you watch the missions like a hawk and try to find a lvl 10 ally to leeech off)

I agree with Tammuz. I dislike the idea of having to check every single mission in detail lest my guys upgrades become useless, and there are many players who also go for the 'chuck em in at random' method. (Though I must admit to owning one of those crappy low lvl medics, but I just keep him around for the teams fluff and don't really expect him to win anything ever.)

You could take the approach that some weapons have a minor added bonus versus specific alt mode types, perhaps a 1-5% average bonus per shot, which could be justified somehow with the flavour of the weapon. Over the course of a mission, that could very well add up to an extra 20% or so, swinging a close mission or just helping with the xp gain. Perhaps a dozen or less weapons, say FP 3 so they aren't insanely hard to get, worse than the Dol against an opponent without the target alt mode class, but with the added bonus of maybe up to 5% against the target class.
A few suggestions off the top of my head, using the current classes:

Barbed Strangler: Fires a mass of constricting cables, more effective against the Insect and Small Animal classes.

Flak Cannon: Fires a shrapnel blast designed to tear through thinner metals. More effective against the Jet and Shuttle classes.

Thermal Lance: A long, heat-based melee weapon. More effective against the Dragon and Dinosaur classes.

Caltrop Rifle: Utilises barbed ammunition, stray shots may puncture tyres, etc. Effective against the Car and Truck classes.

Siege Prism: An intense thermal weapon designed to melt through thick plate armour. More effective against the Tank alt mode class.