The Energon Pub

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:46 pm

Caelus wrote:
Merc With A Mouth wrote:However like any organization of that type I'm certain there would be certain ceremonies and rights so as you could challenge to be the leader.

Man, it's too bad Arena matches can't be fought with members of your own faction. That would be perfect for just such a scenario.

Could the programing be changed to allow for arena matches vs. your own faction as long as there was no payout? IE no xp or energon? So that it's nothing but bragging rights, that way it won't get exploited.

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:33 am

Merc With A Mouth wrote:
Caelus wrote:
Merc With A Mouth wrote:However like any organization of that type I'm certain there would be certain ceremonies and rights so as you could challenge to be the leader.

Man, it's too bad Arena matches can't be fought with members of your own faction. That would be perfect for just such a scenario.

Could the programing be changed to allow for arena matches vs. your own faction as long as there was no payout? IE no xp or energon? So that it's nothing but bragging rights, that way it won't get exploited.

AFAIK that was the Challenge arena and it never came to fruition. Like most of the things in the game, the programming could be changed to do that, if you started by deleting the original programming.

So, if you're going to vie for leadership, give the "leader" (probably a purely nominal title) and the challenger the same target, and whoever collects it first wins. But there's a catch - they both have to be in the mission where the bounty is collected, or it doesn't count.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:35 am

Psychout wrote:Wasn't Waylander able to transfer money cross-factions

He could. He did it for me a couple of times when I was being a bastard and putting hits out on Dealer and Whiney.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:01 am

Burn wrote:
Psychout wrote:Wasn't Waylander able to transfer money cross-factions

He could. He did it for me a couple of times when I was being a bastard and putting hits out on Dealer and Whiney.

That's what I thought. Has anyone seen/heard from Waylander recently?
I've also put a request in to OS about it, we'll have to see what transpires.

Caelus and Merc, you both have brilliant ideas. When we start this, assuming we can keep it cross-factional to allow hits on your own team, how do you suggest we pick the first Guildmaster?

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:22 am

Pick-your-Poison contest!

Or just see who can kick who in the nuts first, I suspect Caelus will win by cheating with his Mod post-editting abilities.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:17 am

Burn wrote:I suspect Caelus will win by cheating with his Mod post-editting abilities.

^^ that's how id win it. :twisted:

This will probably go live when GS and MP's tourney comes to a close in a week or so, hopefully that will also give OS enough time to upgrade the panels so ill be able to facilitate payments (assuming that's integrated)

Until then lets try and work out how we will run this, so please give me your suggestions for basic set of rules that could be applied to all 4 factions as currently i am operating under these guidelines (that i'm more than happy to change):

Terminology:
Hunter - licensed member of the hunters guild
Client - requester of the hit and payer of the bounty.
Contract - contract between Hunter and Client
Bounty - reward, paid in energon, for a completed contract.
Mark - target bot/team of bots
Huntmaster - chief hunter of the guild

Suggested Rules:
Mission Only (however, ironically, we may have to expand this to allow the arena)
Mark can be from any of the 4 factions, including that of the client (tbc)
Maximum duration for any hunt is X (2?) weeks unless an extension is agreed with both client and hunter (huntsmaster in the case of a private bounty).
Bounty is set at 10,000 per level of target for specific targets, 50,000 per (average) level of a full team.
ALL payment's will be made through a staff member (to begin with, mod ability pending)

Completion of contract
If you kill the target bounty and survive the mission the energon must be claimed in the hunting thread.
If you kill the target bounty and you died in the same mission you fail in succeeding the hunt for the head and must try again.

An additional rule may work that the client's can submit bounties in private to the huntsmaster who will publish the hunt details but keep the clients name classified.

Rules such as 'failure = death' whilst awesome should be kept for individual guilds, as whilst that will work for cons and preds, im concious that it may not be how the max and bots want to play and as they haven't responded yet I not sure how on-board they are with the idea. Ill PM a few to see what they think.

Hoistimus wrote:elimination style where once each bot is scalped, it can no longer claim any scalps. Fight to the last TF, although some coordination is required to get the final few into the same matches to get a final points. Winner is declared by a total of points scored.

I would however like to see this to chose the first Huntmaster, just change 'points scored' to 'last man standing'.

Ideas/Thoughts/Flames please...

p.s. I think I may even be able to 'news' it...

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:29 am

I think some rules should be contract specific. Like arenas vs missions. If I'm annoyed that a member of my own faction has left me hanging in missions while they waited in the arena four two hours, it wouldn't make much sense to send bounty hunters after them in the few missions they actually join me in (because then the hunters are shooting at me too!).

Likewise, not dying should be a condition set by the contractor or by the guild. The philosophy of a bounty hunter guild would have a different perspective on this from the philosophy of a ninja clan. Plus, stasis-locked doesn't really equate to death anyway. More importantly though, it'll make it nigh impossible for Predacons to collect bounties on Decepticons in missions.

Query: Should clients approach the guilds confidentially via PM, or have to publicly make contracts?

Oh, and perhaps a hunting lodge of sorts for people to claim kills on preassigned alt classes (yay dragonslaying!) would be another fun thing to do.

And of course, someone needs to make faux liscences for people's signatures.

News Credits: 2 · by **Wingspan** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:43 am

How will bounty hunting affect tournaments? Should it be a default rule that hunters (not competing in the tournament) can target tournament participants, complete the contract, then the targets of the contract are knocked out of the tournament? If not knocking out then perhaps contracts should also allow over a period / in certain missions X energon will be paid for each kill.

Certainly would be an interesting way for a player to improve their chances of winning - knock out the competition.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:03 am

Caelus wrote:Query: Should clients approach the guilds confidentially via PM, or have to publicly make contracts?

I think that should be left to the Client, the option for both should be available.

Contracts should be structured so everyone reads from the same page and follows the same guidelines, but negotiable so that special clauses are still allowed, as it will also make it less confusing for the clients.

Likewise with the rest of the rules above. I've only added them as a starting point, feel free too pull them apart all you want guys.

Wingspan wrote:How will bounty hunting affect tournaments?

If you mean big war tournaments; I don't think it would at all.
The Contract would be independent of the tourney and would still continue. If the Hunter checks his logs and does their research on his Mark it should make it easier to catch if anything.

Its part of the reason I'm looking to set this hunting idea up first, its relatively self sustaining and will run for as long as there are Clients willing to pay and Hunters willing to work, and shouldn't be interrupted by big tournaments.

Caelus wrote:Oh, and perhaps a hunting lodge of sorts for people to claim kills on preassigned alt classes (yay dragonslaying!) would be another fun thing to do.

Agreed. Could be another aspect of the contract work?

edit: Im not a shooper so cant help with the badge. Any volunteers?

by **Lord Gothika** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:52 am

Would there be a Mark board a la Final Fantasy 12, on the forums that might be a thread where clients post bills for marks and the hunter PMs the client to accept, I say PM them so as to try and keep the Mark board as clear as possible?

by **Tammuz** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:20 pm

an organised mark thread would be nice. course at first you had me thinking about the FFXII license board and working how that would work...

by **sumowrestler** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:45 pm

As by the request of Psycout, I shall throw in my personal two cents. I don't speak for the Maximals as a whole. I do have one question\concern and that is figuring out who the head guild master will be and how the guilds are set up. If one isn't careful, the guild could become a new subfaction within the faction. I do know such a thing would not float in the Maximals. The payment can work however it does but I would limit the time frame to one week for the contract to be fulfilled at least on individuals. For the teams, the time limit can be extended. I do agree with Psycout that bounties won't matter with the big tournies because when I ran my Four Prong Tournament within the Maximals, I basically let any mission count with the exception of suicide missions where you were the only Maximal in it. That was because of how the categories were set up. In theory, a contract could have it set up where the same character could be targeted multiple times to satisfy the contract since we know that stasis lock isn't permanent.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:25 pm

Do we need guilds?

Why not just kick it off with everyone as "independants" so to speak and see down the track if people want to band together.

Personally I don't see any advantage in guilds whatsoever, and hell, i'd be in it for the bounty and will happily beat a fellow guild member to it. :twisted:

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:53 pm

Thanks for your input Sumo.

I only use the term 'guilds' (and associated) as I play a lot of RPG's and thats just how im used to naming a collective such as this, dont read too much into it, its an easy catch-all term, thats all.

Some players are naturally going to band together and some will stay solo, thats as it should be in the world of hunting. But to keep it organised and so I can keep track of the money (as ill be on other errands too) id prefer to have only one or two people who liase with me to get the payments sorted, especially as my PM box is getting a daily hammering and its a proper chore getting through them all.

Right, back to the rules then:
Terminology:
Hunter - licensed member of the hunters guild
Client - requester of the hit and payer of the bounty.
Contract - contract between Hunter and Client
Bounty - reward, paid in energon, for a completed contract.
Mark - target bot/team of bots
Huntmaster - chief hunter of the guild

Suggested Rules:
- Contract's can be made publicly, or can be made in private via PM to the Huntsmaster who will publicise the Merk but not the Client.
- The Mark can be from any of the 4 factions, including that of the client (tbc)
- Maximum duration for any hunt is negotiable by contract, default is 2 weeks.
- Bounty is negotiable by contract, default set at 10,000 per level of Mark for specific targets, 50,000 per (average) level of a full team.
- ALL payment's will be made through a staff member (to begin with, mod ability pending)

Completion of contract
- Negotiable by Contract.

Sound better?

Having not played FF since about 6 or 7 (yes, im old..) can someone fill me in on this 'board' suggestion of LG's please?

by **sumowrestler** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:19 pm

The question still remains on how will we organize these guilds if we "force" the issue or do we simply set up rules for guilds to follow and let them form on their own. Hopefully this will help figure out who the guild headmaster will be as well. I understand that "guilds" will make things a little easier to deal with and will keep some form of order but at the same time I also see Burn's independent hunters working a whole lot better. How would these guilds be able to communicate? I can see someone taking out someone who might be after the same target and then get the kill for the contract. This could happen by accident and would be near impossible to do on purpose depending on how the guilds are set up. Creating more "factions" within a game that already has four factions and at least three subfactions in it might be an issue.

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:22 pm

I think the only private contracts should be the ones you put on your own faction mates. If the contracts are publicly posted that gives the player who's being targeted a chance to counter offer and post a bounty of their own on the player who initiated the bounty to begin with. In other words like a real Mercenary I'd gladly off the both of the for their cash, however because this is a game there would be plenty of opportunities for repeat business if you catch my drift.

A couple of things:

I think 10 grand per mark for specific targets is a bit much for the lower levels I think 5 is more reasonable. 10 grand in Energon can take quite a bit to build up. But that's just a suggestion. In the long run it's not like an Assassin is going to give discounts or group rates on whatever the going rate is.

I love the idea of a bounty thread, but I think it should probably be in this sub forum and pinned so it'll be easier to find and have less spam. Yes. I just said less spam.

Psych: In Final Fantasy 12 the whiny effeminate main character knows the head of a Hunter's Guild. He offers you to join the guild and gives you a Mark to hunt. This is the only one in the game that's mandatory. After that if you want to hunt Marks you have to either go to the Board and see if there's any Marks posted, then go to the person who posted it to accept it and find out additional information. Also occasionally the head of the Guild gives out Elite Marks (monsters that are usually special in some way and are higher level and more dangerous then normal ones) in lieu of the board (Elite Marks never appear on it), however you still have to run down the poster of the bounty.

If you're thinking of playing Final Fantasy 12 pass. It's an alright game but you spend nearly 30 tedious Franless minutes with a whiny Metrosexual and his equally whiny Not A Girlfriend. By the time characters like Basch, Balthier and Fran are introduced it's triggered your rage reflex as you realize that Basch or Balthier are the obvious choice for a main character. But no. You're stuck with the Emo Twins.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:26 pm

Sumo, in an ideal world there would be a thread and all the 'licenced' Hunters would mingle in it. No segregation, no factional seperation, just an earned badge.

Contracts would be posted by the Client (in cases of public Contracts) and then either picked up by whichever hunters want to compete on it (a post to say thay are accepting it), or for an organised group/guild, assigned to a Hunter by the Huntmaster (if thats how they wish to organise themselves.) There is always likely to be multiple Hunters working on any one contract and we cant count out the unlicensed hacks having a go either.
In the case of a private contract, whoever was contacted passes the details onto the Huntmaster who posts the Contract details minus the name of the Client and then the process begins as above.

Whether the thread is in here or GD... I dunno but will probably start off in GD.

The Huntmaster is, to a degree, a helper/admin (for want of a better word) position as they will need to give me a shout when a Contract is completed to get payment for the winner. It can be chosen, shared or taken in rotation, its really only for my benefit and so private clients have a contact point, anything more than that is up to the Hunters themselves.

Merc's point is also good, there is no reason why the Mark can't try and buy the Contract out or try and turn it on the Client.

Im also fine with 5k, the amounts I set were just examples, Is 50k still about right for teams?

And if LG's board is a list of targets, Im pretty sure that will feature anyway.

Merc With A Mouth wrote:Yes. I just said less spam.

I hope you realise im gonna frame that. :lol:

by **Loki God Of Mischief** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:40 pm

I'd go 60 grand for Teams at the minimum and 5 grand per character. 12 times 5,000 is 60,000. Unless my math is wrong. And at that point I blame the Edgeyoukayshun Sistim.

Psychout wrote:
Merc With A Mouth wrote:Yes. I just said less spam.
I hope you realise im gonna frame that.

Take a picture. Screencaps last forevers. Although some people probably wish they didn't. Just ask that Jin Saotome guy. (In b4 flamewar against me for bringing it up

)

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:24 pm

Merc With A Mouth wrote:I'd go 60 grand for Teams at the minimum and 5 grand per character.

Fair enough; call it 5k per head, unless the Contract is negotiated otherwise.

by **sumowrestler** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:11 am

What will make this different from the other bounty threads besides it having a little better organization\structure? I usually don't do the bounty threads when I see them but know we have had them from the beginning basically. We just couldn't really "pay" anyone for them until recently and even now it is only within our own faction which is why Psychout is going to be busy.

by **Raphael Prime** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:47 am

Another Maximal's thoughts for ya. But first i need a moment to laugh at Merc.."Emo twins" :lol:

priceless....ok moving on.

I'll support this. I remember back in my early Bot days of a team-up bounty i pulled with Quetz. Which has really only been the only one i've gone for.

All the guidelines and such i've read of Psychout's seem pretty solid to me. I too would go with 5k a head.

I too would have to agree with Burn's way of independants. Having a bulletin board, so-to-speak(ala FF12), and letting all who wish to make an attempt at claiming the bounty go up for it.

Also what about privately contracted bounties? example; Say person A, wants person B taken out. They browse or whatever, the Bounty Hunter thread, find out a little info and PM person C(your bounty hunter) for a contract that they are willing to offer only to person C.

News Credits: 2 · by **Wingspan** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:01 am

raphaelprime wrote:Also what about privately contracted bounties? example; Say person A, wants person B taken out. They browse or whatever, the Bounty Hunter thread, find out a little info and PM person C(your bounty hunter) for a contract that they are willing to offer only to person C.

Still, having a "broker" would help this process greatly when a specific assassin isn't wanted. Broker can post the request but without team specifics (levels, likely challenges, XP range... not names, factions) so that all can be aware without revealing (a) the target(s) and (b) the source.

I know the guilds concept has been bounced around, but what about just having brokers who - if they find a successful assassin - share in the pot because they provide anonymity. Otherwise this is going to make the game very interesting.
Thank you Firefox for spell-check or I'd never have gotten that anonymity right...

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:20 am

Psychout wrote:The Huntmaster is, to a degree, a helper/admin (for want of a better word) position as they will need to give me a shout when a Contract is completed to get payment for the winner.

It's stuff like this where the Support Staff concept was suppose to work.

That being said, i'll throw this general idea out there.

"Game Co-Ordinators".

Once set up they have limited abilities.
• Can edit faction bulletins
• Can create sticky threads and lock them

Anything else is overstepping their bounds.

Back to bounty hunting.

I see people tossing ideas around on how much a bounty should cost. ummm .... why? Would it not be simpler to allow Player A to pipe up and say "5,000 Energon for the head of Player B's top bot"?

The bounty hunting concept will be a GREAT (and long overdue) addition to HMW, but for newer players or those who might not have a lot of energon but have a good rivallry going on, a set fee might deter them from joining in.

by **Raphael Prime** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:19 am

Burn wrote:The bounty hunting concept will be a GREAT (and long overdue) addition to HMW, but for newer players or those who might not have a lot of energon but have a good rivallry going on, a set fee might deter them from joining in.

That's a fairly good point. And i'm sure a good handful of Bounty Hunters will still accept it, even if to have the kill on their resume.