>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby jeddalo » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:33 pm

when the toys came out Rumble is red and Frenzy is blue, when the show came out it somehow got reversed for some reason
jeddalo
Mini-Con
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:49 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
T-Macksimus wrote: I can't tell you why exactly they both had the drivers in the '86 movie (probably just because it is a cool looking feature and you can't decently draw or animate what Frenzy does) but the red one was still Frenzy


I do believe that Frenzy had pile drivers on at least one other occasion besides the 86 film.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Name_Violation » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:19 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
T-Macksimus wrote: I can't tell you why exactly they both had the drivers in the '86 movie (probably just because it is a cool looking feature and you can't decently draw or animate what Frenzy does) but the red one was still Frenzy


I do believe that Frenzy had pile drivers on at least one other occasion besides the 86 film.

i'm sure he did too
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9401
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby typh0id » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:12 am

Counterpunch wrote:
Oh well, I'm off to the bbs to play LotRD.



Oooooh! Legend of the Red Dragon!! I lost many hours of my life to that one :D



Oh and I've ALWAYS considered Rumble to be the red one and Frenzy to be the blue one....Like the toys...
Image
"Reality doesn't care if you believe it..."
----------
"You bitches!" ~Shockwave
User avatar
typh0id
Brainmaster
Posts: 1394
News Credits: 4
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Buy from typh0id on eBay

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Rial Vestro » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:23 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah...just like who became Cyclonus and Scourge in the 86 movie...


You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening. Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy.

Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?
Image
Rial Vestro
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:12 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Rodimus Prime » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:27 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Rial Vestro wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah...just like who became Cyclonus and Scourge in the 86 movie...


You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening. Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy.

Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?


Yeah, I knew about Bombshell and I'm fairly sure Skywarp got turned into Cyclonus...
........Image.
Rodimus Prime
God Of Transformers
Posts: 14946
News Credits: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:31 pm

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Name_Violation » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:02 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
but the tf's who become cyclonus and scourge reappear later on. wtf

tfwiki says: One of the great continuity problems within the G1 animated series concerns the minions of Unicron. Namely, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps. The issue stems from the original script never specifying which Decepticons were thrown off Astrotrain and remade into Galvatron’s followers essentially rendering them generics. As the third season episodes were most likely made using the script and not the as-yet-unfinished film, the Insecticons regularly reappeared in later episodes as well as later on in the movie itself. Much scuttlebutt has been made about who has been turned into who, but ultimately, it falls on the viewer to decide who were the genuine article and who were Decepticons that simply looked like these characters.

When the injured Decepticons are transformed by Unicron, two identical Cyclonus robots are simultaneously created—in the foreground, the Insecticon Bombshell, becomes one, while in the background, Decepticon jet Skywarp becomes another. The dialogue which accompanies this scene claims that we are seeing "Cyclonus... and his armada." But, clearly, one warrior does not make an armada (at least three are required) – the line is, in fact, a carry over from the original script, in which Cyclonus was intended to have multiple identical duplicates, in the same way that Scourge had the Sweeps. However, the idea was apparently abandoned right after this scene—as the group boards the Decepticon mothership moments later, the second Cyclonus has disappeared and been replaced with a third Sweep. And while the number of Sweeps would fluctuate constantly throughout the film and the rest of the series, Cyclonus was consistently depicted as a unique individual, barring some animation errors in "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5" and "The Quintesson Journal" that depicted multiple Cyclonuses. It was, essentially, as if the armada had never existed in the first place
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9401
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:24 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Rial Vestro wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah...just like who became Cyclonus and Scourge in the 86 movie...


You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening. Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy.

Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?


Wow..........almost everything you said here was wrong.

"EDIT" I had a whole response here but I removed it because after reading it it seemed rude......and that wasnt my intent.

But suffice is to say you got all your facts wrong.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:21 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Name_Violation wrote:but the tf's who become cyclonus and scourge reappear later on. wtf


Even Starscream returned in the final battle with Unicron.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Delicon » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:48 pm

Motto: "Seibertron.com: Other sites lack the meat!"
Weapon: Battle Blades
SInce you mentioned 2 long-running TF debates I'll discuss both.

FRENZY AND RUMBLE - To me, it boils down to how big of a fan of the cartoon you were. If that's where most of your fandom concerning TF's comes from, then I'd say you pretty much have to go with the Frenzy is Red, Rumble is Blue theory. However, if you read Marvel comics and even the filecard you'd have to go the other way. To me, I have no problem with either theory.

CYCLONUS AND SCOURGE - I laugh at the people who say "Bombshell had to be Cyclonus because he was in the front" Honestly, the truth is that the people writing and animating this movie really didn't give a hoot about the old characters in this movie, they were more interested in just throwing new ones in there so toys could be made and bought. That's why during the movie (and season 3) they several times lost track of who was alive or dead or how many sweeps there were supposed to be.

However, if you want to put a little creative logic into it, keeping the characters in mind....

Cyclonus - We really don't see a lot of this character personality-wise in the movie because he doesn't even speak. However, going by season 3, Cyclonus is extremly loyal to Galvatron, highly intelligent and a great warrior. Honestly neither Bombshell or Skywarp is all three of those. However, at least in my mind when Unicron recreates these Decepticons I feel some of Unicron himself merges with the bots. (For instance, I think that's why Galvatron has more of a temper than megatron ever did) Using this theory, Unicron's great wisdom could carry over to Skywarp and make him a very feasible Cyclonus. However, the same can't be said for solving Bombshell's loyalty problem.

Scourge and the Sweeps - I've never heard of the Bombshell theory but it is interesting. However to me, I think the more likely scenario is Thundercarker becoming SCourge (and really, their personalities atre already pretty darn close) and the remaining Insecticons becoming the Sweeps. The reason for this is the Insecticons have that lovely cloning technology which would explain why all these Random Sweeps keep popping up. It would also explain why random Insecticons keep appearing in the movie and Season 3.

Feel free to call me wrong, I honestly won't care.

The biggest truth here is that if the people doing the cartoon paid more attention to (or sometimes even remotely cared about) their animating and writing, we wouldn't even need to have these debates.
Proud Seibertronian since 2008
Delicon
Gestalt
Posts: 2377
News Credits: 273
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Telford, PA (Philly Burbs)
Buy from Delicon on eBay
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 7
Endurance: 9
Rank: 7
Courage: 8
Firepower: 2
Skill: 9

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Rial Vestro » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:00 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Rial Vestro wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah...just like who became Cyclonus and Scourge in the 86 movie...


You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening. Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy.

Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?


Wow..........almost everything you said here was wrong.

"EDIT" I had a whole response here but I removed it because after reading it it seemed rude......and that wasnt my intent.

But suffice is to say you got all your facts wrong.


Wrong you say?

Lets break it down and see.

1. "You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening."
Sence the question was who became who that is actully a verry answer to the question. Anyone seen in the forground of the scene is automatically the main character (Scourge and Cyclonus) while the characters seen in the backround are minions. (Sweeps and Armada) Now you're claiming this is wrong which to me translates as "it's not possible to pause a movie." sence that's really the only fact that was said in this statement.

2. "Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy."

Well here's a picture of them.

ImageImage

Kinda looks like they both have a weird horn type dealy to me. Granted Scourge's is shorter, fatter, and doesn't have the bettle shape that Bombshell's does but hey he's not a bettle any more. Never said they both exactly the same just that him even haveing that feature seemed to be reminisent of his previous form. So you're basically saying that either Bombshell, Scourge, or both of them don't have thoughs weird "horn" type dealys on their heads but hey I have pictures showing they do. ;)

3. "Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?"

And yet again I have pictures.

ImageImage

Sure looks like a jet to me. Now the only reason I added the last part is because depending on how good a quality your watching the movie when one of the seekers is seen in the backround it's difficult to make out who it is sence all the colors just sort of blend togeather to the point where you can't tell if it's Thundercracker or Skywarp. Allso I really don't remember who was seen in the forground right now.

At any rate the only fact mentioned her yet again is that Cyclonus transforms into what looks like a futuristic seeker which he does as the pictures show.

So there you have 3 facts, all of which are actully correct.
Image
Rial Vestro
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:12 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby T-Macksimus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:35 pm

Have to agree with Delicon that the original writers/animators could have cared less who got colored what so long as the toys sold. He's also correct in that there is no Thundercraker/Skywarp debate as far as who became who. Delicon had them pegged correctly. And I would like to thank all of you who screwed with my impulse control issues and forced me to watch that whole scene again, in slow-mo no less, just to have my own conclusive, indisputable answers. So don't take it the wrong way, I mean this in the spirit of friendship and brotherhood...you guys suck! Thats 5 minutes of my life I won't get back, darn it. :P :lol: :grin:

(Yeah, I actually did enjoy it. There, I said it now leave me alone...)
"That which does not kill me...had better run pretty damn fast!"
T-Macksimus
Gestalt
Posts: 2227
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: I'm In The Witless Relocation Program

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Name_Violation » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:51 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
T-Macksimus wrote:Have to agree with Delicon that the original writers/animators could have cared less who got colored what so long as the toys sold. He's also correct in that there is no Thundercraker/Skywarp debate as far as who became who. Delicon had them pegged correctly. And I would like to thank all of you who screwed with my impulse control issues and forced me to watch that whole scene again, in slow-mo no less, just to have my own conclusive, indisputable answers. So don't take it the wrong way, I mean this in the spirit of friendship and brotherhood...you guys suck! Thats 5 minutes of my life I won't get back, darn it. :P :lol: :grin:

(Yeah, I actually did enjoy it. There, I said it now leave me alone...)

if that screwed with your impulse control let me direct you to the kennedy assassination

back and to the left, back and to the left. back and to the left, back and to the left
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9401
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby T-Macksimus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:59 pm

I don't even get sucked in to the Kennedy assassination issue. I know better. Hell, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED! :P

...But I'll still watch your video.
"That which does not kill me...had better run pretty damn fast!"
T-Macksimus
Gestalt
Posts: 2227
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: I'm In The Witless Relocation Program

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:13 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Rial Vestro wrote:Wrong you say?


Yes I do.

Rial Vestro wrote:Lets break it down and see.


Sure if you want to make a fool of yourself.

Now remember........I edited my post before because I thought it came off rude, and I was hoping you would do some research before posting again.

But I already know your wrong.

Rial Vestro wrote:
1. "You know there's a verry easy answer to that. Watch the movie and pause it while the upgrades are happening."


Something you should have done as your continued bad info proves.

Rial Vestro wrote:Sence the question was who became who that is actully a verry answer to the question. Anyone seen in the forground of the scene is automatically the main character (Scourge and Cyclonus) while the characters seen in the backround are minions.


Althou I personally agree you are incorrect for saying that the characters in the foreground are automatically the main character.

Rial Vestro wrote: (Sweeps and Armada) Now you're claiming this is wrong which to me translates as "it's not possible to pause a movie." sence that's really the only fact that was said in this statement.


No that was not the only fact but moving on......
Rial Vestro wrote:
2. "Allso if you pay close attention to their designs...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy."

Well here's a picture of them.

ImageImage

Kinda looks like they both have a weird horn type dealy to me. Granted Scourge's is shorter, fatter, and doesn't have the bettle shape that Bombshell's does but hey he's not a bettle any more. Never said they both exactly the same just that him even haveing that feature seemed to be reminisent of his previous form. So you're basically saying that either Bombshell, Scourge, or both of them don't have thoughs weird "horn" type dealys on their heads but hey I have pictures showing they do. ;)


Ahhh.....but this is where you prove yourself the fool.

Its impossible for Scourge to have been Bombshell.

There were 3 characters that were "upgraded" into Scourge and 2 Sweeps.

1 seeker and 2 Insceticons.

The seeker was Thundercracker or some generic blue seeker.
But the 2 Inscecticons were Kickback and Shrapnel

Image.

Image

Image

Rial Vestro wrote:
3. "Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?"

And yet again I have pictures.

ImageImage

Sure looks like a jet to me.



TOTAL FAIL

FIRST..... your contradicting yourself.

Above you said that "Anyone seen in the forground of the scene is automatically the main character while the characters seen in the backround are minions".

But if thats true neither Thundercracker or Skywarp could have been upgraded to Cyclonus because the seeker seen in the shot was in the background.

Furthermore There were 2 characters that were upgrades to the "Cyclonus design".

1 Insecticon and 1 Seeker.

The Seeker was mostly black so it was either Skywarp or a generic black seeker.

The other was Bombshell.
Image


Now here's the real debate.........


When the announcer speaks the names of Cyclonus and Scourge which ones on screen was he talking about???

The most logical answer would be that the ones that appeared in the foreground were ment to be Cyclonus and Scourge.

And if thats the case

Bombshell = Cyclonus
Thundercracker = Scourge

And other debate is wether the Inscecticons werent clones.

Rial Vestro wrote:
At any rate the only fact mentioned her yet again is that Cyclonus transforms into what looks like a futuristic seeker which he does as the pictures show.

So there you have 3 facts, all of which are actully correct.
[/quote]

So there you have it.........YOUR WRONG ON ALL COUNTS.

Now next time take the oppertunity to do the research....or try watching the film again.

You already know you cant trust your memory.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby T-Macksimus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:54 pm

...and THAT, ladies and gentlemen is why I made the comment that appears at the bottom of sto_vo-kor's sig. line.
The guy does his research, twice, beofre making an informed comment and verifies input that's coming in to him as well.
He's generally patient and will give you the benefit of the doubt most times but where hard evidence is concerned, I don't mess with him. I did actually do all the same checking that he did, wrote brief notes about character placement on screen (couldn't have the electornics ALL on at the same time as the fans for long) and...same conclusions.
"That which does not kill me...had better run pretty damn fast!"
T-Macksimus
Gestalt
Posts: 2227
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: I'm In The Witless Relocation Program

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:04 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
T-Macksimus wrote:...and THAT, ladies and gentlemen is why I made the comment that appears at the bottom of sto_vo-kor's sig. line.
The guy does his research, twice, beofre making an informed comment and verifies input that's coming in to him as well.
He's generally patient and will give you the benefit of the doubt most times but where hard evidence is concerned, I don't mess with him. I did actually do all the same checking that he did, wrote brief notes about character placement on screen (couldn't have the electornics ALL on at the same time as the fans for long) and...same conclusions.


And I thank you for your continued praises.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Rial Vestro » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:35 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Althou I personally agree you are incorrect for saying that the characters in the foreground are automatically the main character.


How so? Why in the hell would anyone put the main characters in the backround and have their minions out in the spotlight. That simply isn't done.

When have you ever seen a play where the spot lights were on the choris while the main characters are left to singe under the stage lights.

The spot light or main focus (forground characters) are allways reserved for the main cast not nameless backround characters.

Rial Vestro wrote:3. "Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?"

And yet again I have pictures.

ImageImage

Sure looks like a jet to me.



TOTAL FAIL

FIRST..... your contradicting yourself.

Above you said that "Anyone seen in the forground of the scene is automatically the main character while the characters seen in the backround are minions".

But if thats true neither Thundercracker or Skywarp could have been upgraded to Cyclonus because the seeker seen in the shot was in the background.

Furthermore There were 2 characters that were upgrades to the "Cyclonus design".

1 Insecticon and 1 Seeker.

The Seeker was mostly black so it was either Skywarp or a generic black seeker.

The other was Bombshell.
Image


Now here's the real debate.........


When the announcer speaks the names of Cyclonus and Scourge which ones on screen was he talking about???

The most logical answer would be that the ones that appeared in the foreground were ment to be Cyclonus and Scourge.

And if thats the case

Bombshell = Cyclonus
Thundercracker = Scourge

And other debate is wether the Inscecticons werent clones.


OK something's a miss here. I think I understand how this whole debate stated now. Given that if that's true the who is who thing does seem to be a bit backwards.

You do have to admit that there are design aspects of the characters that would sugest the oppisite of what the dialog would sugest.

Bombshell = Scourge
Skywarp or Thundercracker = Cyclonus.

Allso given that the Sweeps look like Scourge and their ability to clone themselfs would sugest that their leader is creating them as part of his former Insecticon ability.

If you need me I'll be in my corner with a bottle of asprin.

Rial Vestro wrote:At any rate the only fact mentioned her yet again is that Cyclonus transforms into what looks like a futuristic seeker which he does as the pictures show.

So there you have 3 facts, all of which are actully correct.


So there you have it.........YOUR WRONG ON ALL COUNTS.

Now next time take the oppertunity to do the research....or try watching the film again.

You already know you cant trust your memory.[/quote]

Technically I still wasn't wrong. The information itself is contridicting but everything I said was still fact.

1. Forground characters are allways main cast. Given my job and lifetime exsperince studieing this I can in fact tell you that no one is ever going to shove a main character into the backround.

2. I pointed out that there are in fact some verry simular design aspects between the characters witch even though my reasoning for pointing them out was missguided you can't deny that they do share simular designs.
Image
Rial Vestro
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:12 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby T-Macksimus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:19 pm

I can't think of a single rational explanation why I'm sticking my nose into this. Maybe like dodging shots fired over my head but here I go...

I'll concede to the 1st point at the end of your above post Rial, as far as it applies to the theatrical production world.
yes, the 'main' character is typically out in front which would make Bombshell = Cyclonus and T-cracker = Scourge.
I, personally, felt the whole matter unresolved since we didn't get to hear those specific characters speak right then and there (thereby cementing the 'identity issue' from my point of view) and for me, at the point where they transformed and entered the ship they were ALL drones. Identical and all jumbled up. That's just me I guess because reviewing the film before reading your above post about character placement, I was of the opinion "Who cares who was where"!

As for point 2, I can't follow you on that one. I see absolutely nothing of any previous character in Scourge or the Sweeps
and Cyclonus...he's got wings, he flies, so did Leader1 from the Go-Bots. I never associated Cyclonus with any other character in terms of design, saw no similaritites with any G1 flying craft whatsoever outside of the aforementioned wings (which are inverted whereas nobody elses wings were).

There were a few other points which I wont get in the middle of. They were hypothetical points about the 'drone' issue and their origins and I can't and wont comment on that. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm respectfully bowing out at this point. All this is only my humble viewpoint so please don't take offense.

Although I am left kinda puzzled as to how the hell we got here when it was two toy cassettes that started all this?
"That which does not kill me...had better run pretty damn fast!"
T-Macksimus
Gestalt
Posts: 2227
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: I'm In The Witless Relocation Program

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:23 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Rial Vestro wrote:How so?


Because while it makes good sence to have the named characters in the "foreground" theres no rule dictating it.

Theres no reason to assume the movies makers would have used good sence.

And theres no way it can be said to be "automatic"

The simple fact is the movies creators made a number of mistakes and we cant be sure this wasnt one of them

Rial Vestro wrote: When have you ever seen a play where the spot lights were on the choris while the main characters are left to singe under the stage lights.

The spot light or main focus (forground characters) are allways reserved for the main cast not nameless backround characters.


These are poor analogies not even worth my time to reply to completly.

Point being I dont think the films creators cared all that much to be sure who was in the spot light.

Rial Vestro wrote:

OK something's a miss here. I think I understand how this whole debate stated now.


So do I.

You never do your research.

Rial Vestro wrote: Given that if that's true the who is who thing does seem to be a bit backwards.


What do you mean???

Rial Vestro wrote:
You do have to admit that there are design aspects of the characters that would sugest the oppisite of what the dialog would sugest.


No I dont.

And heres why............Its an established fact that the production script had no mention of which decepticon characters were intended to be killed off.

So I repeat......no one knew which decepticon characters were going to die.

And the character/toy models were already on the drawing board, and the toys in production, long before the script was finalized.As a matter of fact a full year before.

So that means the design aspects of Scourge and Cyclonus were already created before the script for the film was created so theres no way that they were inspired by Bombshell and a seeker.

Rial Vestro wrote:Allso given that the Sweeps look like Scourge and their ability to clone themselfs would sugest that their leader is creating them as part of his former Insecticon ability.


And thats an other "fan misconception"

It was never, I repeat "NEVER" said that the sweeps could clone them selfs.

Thats something the fans came up with to explain why there were so many of them.

Reserach buddy.....try it.

Rial Vestro wrote:
If you need me I'll be in my corner with a bottle of asprin.



:grin:

Rial Vestro wrote:
Technically I still wasn't wrong.


Technically you were.

Rial Vestro wrote: The information itself is contridicting


No its not.....your memory is.

Rial Vestro wrote: but everything I said was still fact.


no none of it was a "FACT".

Rial Vestro wrote:
1. Forground characters are allways main cast.


That is not a provable fact.

Rial Vestro wrote: Given my job and lifetime exsperince studieing this I can in fact tell you that no one is ever going to shove a main character into the backround.


Your experience does not speak to this case.

Rial Vestro wrote:
2. I pointed out that there are in fact some verry simular design aspects between the characters witch even though my reasoning for pointing them out was missguided you can't deny that they do share simular designs.


Sure I can.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Flare » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:56 pm

Motto: "If you're going to be bad, make sure you're the best at it!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
primusprime22 wrote:alright, this is the new (I don't think it is the first) Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red. whatever. just... don't break any rule, alright?

I personally think Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue.

the debate over something that is not important, begins!

From someone who used to be in love with Rumble as a child I can tell you that in the cartoon Rumble was the blue/purplish one. :x I loved him as the blue one. And Frenzy was the red/black one who was used less often during G1. But there was a time when Spike and Jetfire had dealings with Frenzy in the cartoon. He was pretty notorious himself. But remember that the cartoon was created for Hasbro to sell their toy line. And in the 84' toy line, the blue one was originally Frenzy and the Red one was Rumble. The cartoon switched the names.

Or the names were switched when the toys were being re-boxed and shipped out of Japan. For whatever reason no one complained enough for the mix up to be fixed. But I've always loved Rumble as the blue mini cassette. He had so much more screen time during the first series and I loved him in the 86' movie. He was so adorable carrying Megatron's Cannon onto Astrotrain, while Soundwave carried Megatron. Besides Laserbeak and Ravage I think Megatron liked Rumble hanging around more often, while the other mini cassettes were put away inside Soundwave.
Flare
Minibot
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:25 am
Location: Cybertron
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 9
Endurance: 6
Rank: 3
Courage: 8
Firepower: 9
Skill: 7

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Flare » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:16 am

Motto: "If you're going to be bad, make sure you're the best at it!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Reserach buddy.....try it.


:-s Don't mess with sto_vo_kor_2000! :P
Flare
Minibot
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:25 am
Location: Cybertron
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 9
Endurance: 6
Rank: 3
Courage: 8
Firepower: 9
Skill: 7

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:53 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Flare wrote: But remember that the cartoon was created for Hasbro to sell their toy line. And in the 84' toy line, the blue one was originally Frenzy and the Red one was Rumble. The cartoon switched the names.

Or the names were switched when the toys were being re-boxed and shipped out of Japan.


No the blue one was Frenzy in Japan.

The cartoon made a change.

Flare wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Reserach buddy.....try it.


:-s Don't mess with sto_vo_kor_2000! :P


You tell him :grin: :o)
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6888
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:01 am

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Jacob P. Galvatron » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:04 am

Motto: "Decepticons, till the day I die! West side!"
Weapon: Big Cannon
RIRFIB
The irony is, we call the blue Frenzy that came with Recon Barricade, Rumble.
Jacob P. Galvatron: Because You're Worth It!!

Custom Things:
Atmospheric Re-entry Bumblebee

Image
Jacob P. Galvatron
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 872
News Credits: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:15 am
Location: Martha Stewart's house

Re: the all-new Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue thread. (or Rumble is blue, Frenzy is red)

Postby Rodimus Prime » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:07 am

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
RIBFIR
........Image.
Rodimus Prime
God Of Transformers
Posts: 14946
News Credits: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Transformers General Discussion


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy United Cybertron Vector Prime Voyager Hasbro 2024 New"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Buzzworthy Bumblebee Legacy Silverstreak Deluxe Class 2022 New"
Transformers Buzzw ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy Blitzwing Leader Class Hasbro 2022 New"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "CYCLONUS + NIGHTSTICK Transformers Legacy Generations Selects Voyager 2022 New"
CYCLONUS + NIGHTST ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy United Animated Bumblebee Deluxe Class Hasbro 2024 New"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Go-Bot Guardians Transformers Generations Selects Legacy United 3-Pack New"
Go-Bot Guardians T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy Evolution SHADOW STRIKER Deluxe Class Cyberverse Hasbro 2023"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy United Origin Bumblebee Deluxe Class Hasbro 2025 New"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "JHIAXUS Transformers Legacy Voyager Class G2 Universe Hasbro 2022 New"
JHIAXUS Transforme ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "ARMADA GALVATRON Transformers Legacy United Leader Class Hasbro 2024 New"
ARMADA GALVATRON T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "NEMESIS LEO PRIME Transformers Legacy Evolution Voyager Lio Convoy 2023 New"
NEMESIS LEO PRIME ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers Legacy United Optimus Prime Deluxe Class G1 Hasbro 2024 New"
Transformers Legac ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "LASER OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Legacy United Leader G2 Universe 2024 New"
LASER OPTIMUS PRIM ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-K7 PALEOTREX Transformers War Cybertron Kingdom Deluxe Hasbro 2020 New"
WFC-K7 PALEOTREX T ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Nitro Series Barricade" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Authentics Grimlock Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers MPM-03 Movie 10th Anniversary Figure Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Megatronus Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Twin Twist and Flameout" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 11 Deluxe Class Movie 4 Lockdown" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 07 Leader Class Movie 4 Grimlock" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Deluxe 20 Mercenary Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Robots in Disguise Combiner Force 1-Step Changer Soundwave" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers MV5 Titan Changer Megatron Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Legends Class Buzzsaw Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: The Last Knight Premier Edition Voyager Class Megatron" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.