The Energon Pub

[Rial Vestro]

OK something's a miss here. I think I understand how this whole debate stated now.

So do I.

You never do your research.

What does my lack of research have to do with a debate that's probly being going on sence I was only 5 months old.

You do have to admit that there are design aspects of the characters that would sugest the oppisite of what the dialog would sugest.

No I dont.

And heres why............Its an established fact that the production script had no mention of which decepticon characters were intended to be killed off.

So I repeat......no one knew which decepticon characters were going to die.

And the character/toy models were already on the drawing board, and the toys in production, long before the script was finalized.As a matter of fact a full year before.

So that means the design aspects of Scourge and Cyclonus were already created before the script for the film was created so theres no way that they were inspired by Bombshell and a seeker.

That doesn't make any sence. What does the time frame of when the toys were designed have to do with relation to when the script was finished?

The characters the designs could have been based off of were allready in exsistance LONG before the movie as well. The only way what you're sugesting would make sence is the upgraded forms exsisted BEFORE their original forms. When the movie was wrighten doesn't have anything to do with designs of characters.

Whatever the case may be the design aspects are there regardless of why they're there. If it's just pure coincidence that's a little bit odd but not that unbelivable but some how I think they were intentinally designed that way.

Allso given that the Sweeps look like Scourge and their ability to clone themselfs would sugest that their leader is creating them as part of his former Insecticon ability.

And thats an other "fan misconception"

It was never, I repeat "NEVER" said that the sweeps could clone them selfs.

Thats something the fans came up with to explain why there were so many of them.

Reserach buddy.....try it.

I knew that. I never said it was said in the show ever, but technically I don't think the Insecticons being able to do it was ever said either. Whatever the case it doesn't have to be said, it's seen. How many times did they kill Shrapnel in the movie? There's a spoof video on you tube showing a factory that builds Shrapnel clones while who I would assume to be the real Shrapnel sits around safe in the factor away from any real danger.

but everything I said was still fact.

no none of it was a "FACT".

Yes all of it was fact.

Main characters are never, I repeat NEVER shoved into the backround. FACT. Only Micheal Bay is stupid enough to break this rule.

Bombshell shares a simular design trait with Scourge. FACT. I even showed pictures proveing this. Weather it's intential or not it's still there.

The seekers share a simular vehicle mode with Cyclonus. FACT. Again I've even posted pictures proveing this to be fact.

So your "non of it was fact" would sugest the pictures posted abouve do not exsist.

1. Forground characters are allways main cast.

That is not a provable fact.

Sure it is, go watch any movie, TV show, play whatever. I garantee you that no matter what you're watching you will never see the main characters of whatever it is shoved into the backround. (unless you're watching a Micheal Bay film but we allready know he's not a real director, just a demolition exspert, exsplosions yeah!)

Given my job and lifetime exsperince studieing this I can in fact tell you that no one is ever going to shove a main character into the backround.

Your experience does not speak to this case.

Right, because a lifetime exsperience in film and theater has absolutly nothing to with film and theater.

2. I pointed out that there are in fact some verry simular design aspects between the characters witch even though my reasoning for pointing them out was missguided you can't deny that they do share simular designs.

Sure I can.

Have fun trying to dissprove the exsistance of them when I've allready posted pictures proveing their exsistance.

Disclaimer: Don't take my Micheal Bay comments seriously. They're just added as an attempt at humor not really anything else. I just really hate what that guy did with Transformers and it's really fun to take any oppertunity to insult his "skills" as a director. If you can really call them skills.

[Burn]

So how about those Frenzy and Rumble characters. Funny guys weren't they? We should totally talk about them considering the thread is titled about them!

[Flare]

So how about those Frenzy and Rumble characters. Funny guys weren't they? We should totally talk about them considering the thread is titled about them!

I liked how they always defended Soundwave, even against Devastator. They weren't afraid to face the Gestalt by themselves. Tough little Decepticons.

[typh0id]

Main characters are never, I repeat NEVER shoved into the backround. FACT. Only Micheal Bay is stupid enough to break this rule.

Wow...This is possibly the most ignorant comment I've ever read on these boards...And that's really saying something...


I'm going to go ahead and just ignore the fact that you immediately contradicted youself by saying "never" twice and then saying "Michael Bay did it"...But aside from that, how can you possibly know that NOONE in the history of play, television, and cinema, has ever put a main character in the background...?

And your still ignoring the fact that the animators of Transformers clearly did not give a **** about accuracy considering the plethora of other mistakes that were made...

3. "Cyclonus on the other hand transforms into what looks like a futureistic seeker. This is because Cyclonus is Skywarp... or Thundercracker...

Now there's the real debate, Did Skywarp or Thundercracker get turned into Cyclonus?"

And yet again I have pictures.

Sure looks like a jet to me.

Contradiction: If we are to follow your "logic" and say that because Cyclonus is a jet and Thundercracker and Skywarp are jets, then Cyclonus HAS to be one of them (because apparently Unicron couldn't possibly have completely altered his shape) then that would mean that Scourge would HAVE to be some type of insect since according to you he was made from Bombshell...

Scourge has this odd little "horn" type dealy on his head that kind of plays homage to Bombshell's horn on his head. The two are the same guy."

Your GIANT leaps in logic are astounding..."They kinda look similar so they are the same" Wow...

And I'm sorry, but I don't see how they look ANYTHING alike (even with the "fact-proving" pictures you showed)...Just because they both "have something on their head" doesn't really mean anything at all...


Oh and one more...You have been SO insistant that the main characters are ALWAYS in the foreground and yet you say that Cyclonus came from Skywarp (or TC) and Scourge came from Bombshell...NEITHER or those occurred in the foreground! (And the Bombshell thing didn't occur at all)...

[Name_Violation]

Allso given that the Sweeps look like Scourge and their ability to clone themselfs would sugest that their leader is creating them as part of his former Insecticon ability.

And thats an other "fan misconception"

It was never, I repeat "NEVER" said that the sweeps could clone them selfs.

Thats something the fans came up with to explain why there were so many of them.

Reserach buddy.....try it.

I knew that. I never said it was said in the show ever, but technically I don't think the Insecticons being able to do it was ever said either. Whatever the case it doesn't have to be said, it's seen. How many times did they kill Shrapnel in the movie? There's a spoof video on you tube showing a factory that builds Shrapnel clones while who I would assume to be the real Shrapnel sits around safe in the factor away from any real danger.

[/quote]
Did you just say the Inseticons never explicitly said they had cloning abilities?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjbmjmiKB5A at 7:12 the line "my electronic clone beams" pretty much solidifies that to me. and the clones right after. the explicitly "look at us make clones" clones they made

[Rial Vestro]

typh0id, I'm not even going to bother to reply to your post for 2 reasons.

1. You have appearently not read through much of this disscussion or you'd realize you just brought up alot of the same things I've allready replyed to Sto about so repling to you would be rather pointless when I've allready said the same things to him.

2. Weather or not you have actully read through the topic your post reads like your not even trying to have any kind of real discussion but insted posted it just to be insulting to me. Sto's earlier post allthough he pointed out alot of the same things you did, he did it without being insulting. The biggest insult...

I'm going to go ahead and just ignore the fact that you immediately contradicted youself by saying "never" twice and then saying "Michael Bay did it"...But aside from that, how can you possibly know that NOONE in the history of play, television, and cinema, has ever put a main character in the background...?

To answer the question, I put in bold. I have spent basically my entire life learning everything I can about movies. I work in theater. And your statement there is the equivilant of telling me that I've waist my life. Simply put how I know that is because IT'S MY JOB TO KNOW. You might as well be asking a doctor how he knows what medication to perscribe a patient. Because he went to medical school for about 8 years. Allthough in my case I've been learning about anything involving the makeing of movies sence I was 4, maybe younger, and I'm 23 now.

I was the kid watching movie magic every day, wanting a camera for christmas and birthdays every year, and just generally being weird.

It is simply the most stupid thing anyone could ever do. Draw the focus away from the main characters. If the audience is watching something in the backround of a scene because it's more interesting that what's going on up front, someone has most definatly failed as a director.

I know this the same way a carpenders knows how to put up dry wall. I know it the same way a chief knows how to cook. I know it the same way anyone knows anything, it's my Job, more than that, it's my life.

You might as well be telling me to go shoot myself which given my metal health I probly would if you gave me the gun.

[typh0id]

1. You have appearently not read through much of this disscussion or you'd realize you just brought up alot of the same things I've allready replyed to Sto about so repling to you would be rather pointless when I've allready said the same things to him.

You're partially right...I did bring up points you've already responded too...The reason I did, however, is that basically every single one of your arguments against points that had been raised either failed to address the issue, completely contradicted yourself, or were just plain factually WRONG...I was just trying to get you to actually think about what you were saying and clarify...I clearly failed...

2. Weather or not you have actully read through the topic your post reads like your not even trying to have any kind of real discussion but insted posted it just to be insulting to me. Sto's earlier post allthough he pointed out alot of the same things you did, he did it without being insulting. The biggest insult...

I'm going to go ahead and just ignore the fact that you immediately contradicted youself by saying "never" twice and then saying "Michael Bay did it"...But aside from that, how can you possibly know that NOONE in the history of play, television, and cinema, has ever put a main character in the background...?

To answer the question, I put in bold. I have spent basically my entire life learning everything I can about movies. I work in theater. And your statement there is the equivilant of telling me that I've waist my life. Simply put how I know that is because IT'S MY JOB TO KNOW. You might as well be asking a doctor how he knows what medication to perscribe a patient. Because he went to medical school for about 8 years. Allthough in my case I've been learning about anything involving the makeing of movies sence I was 4, maybe younger, and I'm 23 now.

I was not speicifically trying to be insulting...I did not call you names or anything like that...I merely stated that your comments were grossly uninformed and inaccurate...And your "proof" on the various points didn't actually prove anything...I'm not afraid to call bullshit when I see it...And most of what you said was exactly that...And frankly I don't care how long you've enjoyed watching movies...To state that something is NEVER done just because it's not the right way to do it is rediculous...There are tons of bad movies and bad directors that make mistakes and poor choices all the time...Just because it's a bad way to do something doesn't mean they don't do it anyway...Transformers the Animated Movie, while I LOVE it (and always have) had a TON of mistakes in it...You simply can't deny that...

And none of this changes the fact that you are STILL religiously ignoring the actual arguments and going off on tangents that don't really have any purpose...But as of right now I'm not going to care anymore...YOu are clearly incapable of hearing what others are saying to you and instead choose to just continue spouting off inane nonsense to avoid the actual points at hand...Of which you are wrong about...

And nothing proves THAT fact more than THIS:

it's my Job, more than that, it's my life.

You might as well be telling me to go shoot myself which given my metal health I probly would if you gave me the gun.

This is the kind of thing meladramatic people who are desparately seeking attention say...Not at all suprised you're a theatre major or whatever...

So you can argue what I've said here all you want but I realize that contiuing this is completely useless and I'm now out...I imagine the mods are going to lock this thread anyway...

One more thing though:

typh0id, I'm not even going to bother to reply to your post

Eh...you just did, man...

[primusprime22]

Okay, I'm just going to make a Who becomes Scourge and who becomes Cyclonus thread, due to the fact that many people seem to be arguing about this. I will not say any names.

now back to the topic. what was it again? oh, yeah, WHAT COLOR IS RUMBLE AND FRENZY?!?!?

I need to calm down...

[Name_Violation]

trukk not munky

[typh0id]

Okay, I'm just going to make a Who becomes Scourge and who becomes Cyclonus thread, due to the fact that many people seem to be arguing about this. I will not say any names.

now back to the topic. what was it again? oh, yeah, WHAT COLOR IS RUMBLE AND FRENZY?!?!?

I need to calm down...

Toys came first...Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue.




EDIT: Wikipedia sums it up perfectly:

Rumble's colors changed over the course of Generation one, originally being red (leading to confusion as Frenzy was blue) in the original toyline and Marvel comics. The cartoon made Rumble the blue robot instead. Dreamwave comics, IDW comics, and even the recently-released Alternators toy all represented Rumble as a red robot. The Japanese dub of the original Transformers series switched Rumble and Frenzy's names around so that their cartoon appearances would match the colors of their toys.

[Mkall]

Just a reminder folks that this topic is about Rumble's and Frenzy's colourschemes. Not about main characters being shoved around or negated.

So let's drop that line of discussion here and now.

Thank You

[Rial Vestro]

it's my Job, more than that, it's my life.

You might as well be telling me to go shoot myself which given my metal health I probly would if you gave me the gun.

This is the kind of thing meladramatic people who are desparately seeking attention say...Not at all suprised you're a theatre major or whatever...

So you can argue what I've said here all you want but I realize that contiuing this is completely useless and I'm now out...I imagine the mods are going to lock this thread anyway...

You don't need to call someone names to be insulting to them. You're post before and even now as I've quoted just reads as an insult.

First because you're questioning my inteligence and now because you're judgeing me as being "meladramatic" which on it's own is bad enough but then you just made it worse by adding "because I'm a theater geek" (I've paraphraised that part) which just comes off as OK so now you're putting me into a steriotype.

At any rate I wasn't being meladramtic to seek attention. I tend to just bottle up all my problems which really isn't a good thing because then things like that happen. In other words about 90% of the stress and anger that went into that post came from elsewhere in my life but it's not important right now, the issues that were bothering me have been taken care of. (Not going to go into spicifics.)

At any rate, I appoligise for the extra aggression but still you could of worded your posts better.

OK now that that's out of the way...

Rumble = Red

Frenzy = Blue

[ausbot]

But what about "enemy" he is also red, and being called enemy makes him sad making him blue! Does this help

[DREWCIFER]

This is easy. Lil Formers have already addressed this.



As for Cyclonus and the sweeps...

Unicron has infinite power. He can format anyone transformer into anything else. Pre-conversion modes has no relation to post modes.

The insecticons were all clones.

The seekers were generic.

See wasn't that easy!

[DREWCIFER]

trukk not munky

Cab over ENGINE!!!!!!!!!

Anything else, is a fraud.