The Energon Pub

[Primus C-00]

There's too much evidence showing none of those Primuses or Unicrons are the same.

Like?

[Deadpool.]

There's too much evidence showing none of those Primuses or Unicrons are the same.

Like?

Like how Armada/energon Unicron got blown up.
And how G1 Unicron got blown up too.
If they were the smae, there wouldnt be Unicron all over the universes.

And Primus can't be the same one throughout all the dimensions.
He is Cybertron, and there's a Cybertron in all the lines.

[Primus C-00]

Like how Armada/energon Unicron got blown up.
And how G1 Unicron got blown up too.
If they were the smae, there wouldnt be Unicron all over the universes.

And Primus can't be the same one throughout all the dimensions.
He is Cybertron, and there's a Cybertron in all the lines.

ZOMGNTSA

So, a different body is destroyed, that doesn't stop the essence of a God like being now does it?

Nor does a different dwelling point for the essence of Primus in each dimension contradict his omnipresence.

[Primus C-00]

And Primus can't be the same one throughout all the dimensions.
He is Cybertron, and there's a Cybertron in all the lines.

And that, btw, totally contradicts itself, or rather it reinforces itself contradicting the intended point you were trying to make.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I thought this thread was dead.

This thread has an indrustible spark just like Starscream

[Insurgent]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.
And Primal is told the Oracle fortold the comming of the first robots to Cybertron, and they had to learn to transform. If the Transformers where created by Primus when he created Cybertron, The original 13 couldn't come to Cybertron, they would be there from it's creation. Beast Machines doesn't fit in with this retconning, and dont even dare to say Hasbro retconned out that little fact (like was said about the Quints bestowing AI onto the tf's in the G1 toon) because if that gets retconned out, the entire show crumbles. And although I'm sure there are those that would like to retcon BM out of existance, it wont be.

Also, Vector Sigma had a sex change?

[Deadpool.]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.

That's what i meant...
sorta.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

There's too much evidence showing none of those Primuses or Unicrons are the same.

Like?

For 1 , G1 Marvel Comics Unicron him self stating to the Galvatron he plucked from the future that it was a different Unicron that created that Galvatron.

2 Again G1 Marvel,the fact that after the battle on Cybertron with Unicron, Galvatron continued to exist after Unicron was blowen up.If he was the same Unicron ,Galvatron should have faded away because he was never made.

3 G1 toon Unicron concidering not to eat Cybertron in the movie.....If he had been the same Unicron of the Marvel G1 or any of the others why would he allow Cybertron to go un-eaten.....it was Cybertron [Primus] he was looking for for a untold amount of years in all the other Universes.

I know they tryed to retcon it all into one muiltiverse, and it was a good idea to do it, but they made a big mistake trying to say that Primus and Unicron were the same persons for all Universes........it just dosent fit the stories told.In effect, that retcon re-writes those stories at a basic level if it's still canon.

Even if there was a Primus in the G1 toon that we never met , the relationship between him and Unicron cant be the same as in other Universes with out re-writing the story of the movie and few episodes of season 3.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.

That's what i meant...
sorta.

The idea is that it wasnt a artificial blanet.Primus traped himself in a meteor and then learn to reshap himself into a planet.A meteor has "organic crap all over" all over it.

[Deadpool.]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.

That's what i meant...
sorta.

The idea is that it wasnt a artificial blanet.Primus traped himself in a meteor and then learn to reshap himself into a planet.A meteor has "organic crap all over" all over it.

Oh. Now i get it.

[Primus C-00]

Ah, well you see my knowledge of Beast Machines is a little how shall we say:

limited

And the same goes for some of the later Marvel stuffs.

Maybe when Unicron said he wasn't the same Unicron he was stating how he was from a time before or after Unicron's destruction in the movie, or like the Devil apparently does, he was lying?

The idea is that it wasn't a artificial planet. Primus trapped himself in a meteor and then learn to reshape himself into a planet.A meteor has "organic crap all over" all over it.

I also have heard it said though that Primus, this time incarnate as an avatar within a Quint scientist landed on a planetoid from which Cybertron would be formed, and if Cybertron's destiny was to become an organic world then I'm sure it wouldn't be beyond him/her to begin the reconfiguration from the core out.

The only reason I can see for Cybertron being a giant body for Primus is for any percievable conflict with Unicron and I'm guessing by the time of Beast Machines Unicron isn't really that much of a threat anymore.

Especially seeing as the Kids are quite capable of dealing with the Chaos Bringer on their own.

Thank-you for highlighting these points though, I will humbly take them on board and consider them as I continue writing my Life and Times of Primus fanfic.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I'm glad we made it to page 25

I also have heard it said though that Primus, this time incarnate as an avatar within a Quint scientist landed on a planetoid from which Cybertron would be formed, and if Cybertron's destiny was to become an organic world then I'm sure it wouldn't be beyond him/her to begin the reconfiguration from the core out.

This is not part of any canon book I've ever read....and I have read most of them.It might be part of someones fanfic.

[Primus C-00]

I think you're right there, possibly an attempt rectify the whole Primcaron's assistant idea, and if it wasn't before it's definitely a part of my fanfic now.

[Insurgent]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.

That's what i meant...
sorta.

The idea is that it wasnt a artificial blanet.Primus traped himself in a meteor and then learn to reshap himself into a planet.A meteor has "organic crap all over" all over it.

Ok. I follow that. But the G1 marvel states in it's opening page Cybertron has no organic stuff, no soil, nothing like that. Only cold, hard machinery.

Unless Primus inhabited an organic asteroid in the toon and this marvel thing was yet another retcon.

BAGH! Screw all of this retconning. I'm taking each continuity as seperate, each with their own Unicron and Primus (except the toon which has no Primus). It just gets too rediculous trying to retcon everything to fit since you end up wiping out half of what was written.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Ok. If Cybertron in every single version of TF continuity is the body of Primus that he created from an artificial planet, explain to me how Beast Machines Cybertron had an organic core? It's the body of Primus, described as being artificial. But there's organic crap all over the place under the surface.

That's what i meant...
sorta.

The idea is that it wasnt a artificial blanet.Primus traped himself in a meteor and then learn to reshap himself into a planet.A meteor has "organic crap all over" all over it.

Ok. I follow that. But the G1 marvel states in it's opening page Cybertron has no organic stuff, no soil, nothing like that. Only cold, hard machinery.

Unless Primus inhabited an organic asteroid in the toon and this marvel thing was yet another retcon.

BAGH! Screw all of this retconning. I'm taking each continuity as seperate, each with their own Unicron and Primus (except the toon which has no Primus). It just gets too rediculous trying to retcon everything to fit since you end up wiping out half of what was written.

No it was further in the Marvel books that it was reveiled that Primus traped himself in a meteor,they never get into Primus in the G1 toon.

[Insurgent]

But Marvel states in the opening that Cybertron was an artificial planet. No trace of soil or anything like that, so Primus must have inhabited an artificial meteor in the comics.

And although they never go into Primus in the cartoon, the retconning puts him in it regardless. And as BM is a follow on from the toon, and organic goop and fossils are found beneath the surface, in the tv world, Primus must have inhabited a natural meteor.

[Primus C-00]

Well the impression I get from a lot of the G1 Marvel stuff is that much of anything below Cybertron's surface is forbidden or a mystery, so for all intents and purposes it would appear to be a totally inorganic world, and failing that, maybe Primus made the core inorganic over time reverting it back to organic at a later point.

He/She is (a) God you know.

[Primus C-00]

BAGH! Screw all of this retconning. I'm taking each continuity as seperate, each with their own Unicron and Primus (except the toon which has no Primus). It just gets too rediculous trying to retcon everything to fit since you end up wiping out half of what was written.

Trying to rectify these disparagent elements is a lot easier when you're a little bit drunk or high on coffee and/or weed...

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

But Marvel states in the opening that Cybertron was an artificial planet. No trace of soil or anything like that, so Primus must have inhabited an artificial meteor in the comics.

And although they never go into Primus in the cartoon, the retconning puts him in it regardless. And as BM is a follow on from the toon, and organic goop and fossils are found beneath the surface, in the tv world, Primus must have inhabited a natural meteor.

Theres no such thing as a "artificial meteor" they all have some organic matter and bacteria.The opening narration was told from the perspective of the level of knowledge that the Transformer race had at the time.Most Transformers thought that all Primus stories were a myth.When the information about Primus was reveiled it seem none of the Transformers knew anything about him.

[Primus C-00]

Theres no such thing as a "artificial meteor" they all have some organic matter and bacteria.The opening narration was told from the perspective of the level of knowledge that the Transformer race had at the time.Most Transformers thought that all Primus stories were a myth.When the information about Primus was reveiled it seem none of the Transformers knew anything about him.

That to...

[Tramp]

There's too much evidence showing none of those Primuses or Unicrons are the same.

Like?

For 1 , G1 Marvel Comics Unicron him self stating to the Galvatron he plucked from the future that it was a different Unicron that created that Galvatron.

2 Again G1 Marvel,the fact that after the battle on Cybertron with Unicron, Galvatron continued to exist after Unicron was blowen up.If he was the same Unicron ,Galvatron should have faded away because he was never made.

3 G1 toon Unicron concidering not to eat Cybertron in the movie.....If he had been the same Unicron of the Marvel G1 or any of the others why would he allow Cybertron to go un-eaten.....it was Cybertron [Primus] he was looking for for a untold amount of years in all the other Universes.

I know they tryed to retcon it all into one muiltiverse, and it was a good idea to do it, but they made a big mistake trying to say that Primus and Unicron were the same persons for all Universes........it just dosent fit the stories told.In effect, that retcon re-writes those stories at a basic level if it's still canon.

Even if there was a Primus in the G1 toon that we never met , the relationship between him and Unicron cant be the same as in other Universes with out re-writing the story of the movie and few episodes of season 3.

In essence that is partially what a retcon does. It retractively makes changes to a preexisting story to better fit current story lines. The G1 carton itself did this all the time, hence the various "continuity glitches". The Star Wars EU has routinely made retcons because of the Prequels in order to maintain contiuity. The retcons Hasbro has made to the G1 histories are pretty minor in comparison. They don't affect the stories themselves that much.

[Tramp]

BAGH! Screw all of this retconning. I'm taking each continuity as seperate, each with their own Unicron and Primus (except the toon which has no Primus). It just gets too rediculous trying to retcon everything to fit since you end up wiping out half of what was written.

Trying to rectify these disparagent elements is a lot easier when you're a little bit drunk or high on coffee and/or weed...

Personally, i have never had a problem rectifying the disapate elements.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The retcons Hasbro has made to the G1 histories are pretty minor in comparison. They don't affect the stories themselves that much.

Thats an opinion we dont share.You welcome to your way of thinking but to me the retcon proposed in the Ulitimate Guide make far more changes than any of the one's seen in the G1 toon.Most of those could be chalked up to taking the dialog way to literaley [if you want exsamples just ask],but some of the retcon from THG make some fundamental changes that ,if it were so at the time the stories were told, would have made the storie flow in a different way.

By the way welcome back.

[craggy]

BAGH! Screw all of this retconning. I'm taking each continuity as seperate, each with their own Unicron and Primus (except the toon which has no Primus). It just gets too rediculous trying to retcon everything to fit since you end up wiping out half of what was written.

Trying to rectify these disparagent elements is a lot easier when you're a little bit drunk or high on coffee and/or weed...

I fully agree with this last statement. In fact, I encourage it.

[Tramp]

The retcons Hasbro has made to the G1 histories are pretty minor in comparison. They don't affect the stories themselves that much.

Thats an opinion we dont share.You welcome to your way of thinking but to me the retcon proposed in the Ulitimate Guide make far more changes than any of the one's seen in the G1 toon.Most of those could be chalked up to taking the dialog way to literaley [if you want exsamples just ask],but some of the retcon from THG make some fundamental changes that ,if it were so at the time the stories were told, would have made the storie flow in a different way.

By the way welcome back.

Thanks.

As for the retcons, remember, it wasn't the Ultimate Guide that introduced them to begin with. Beast Wars and the 3H Wreckers story did. All the Ultimate Guide did was compile all of the informnation currently in existance into a single volume. It didn't invent any of the information presented. All of the retcons, all of the infor,mation came from previously produced sources, both cartoon and comic book. All the Ultimate Guide did was compile this information and distill it into one volume. And believe me, compared to the number and extent of the retcons in Star Wars, the ones in Transformers are miniscule. The statement by Unicron saying he considered sparing Cybertron can easily be chalked up to a lie. Basically, he was goading Galvatron, telling him that Cybertron's destruction was [i]his[/b] fault because he betrayed his Master, when all along Uniron was planning to destroy Cybertron anyway.

As for Marvel goes, even though Unicron's body was destroyed, that does not mean he won't regenerate. Thus, with enough energon or sparks, Unicron could easily regenerate in time to create Galvatron in the future.