The Energon Pub

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The retcons Hasbro has made to the G1 histories are pretty minor in comparison. They don't affect the stories themselves that much.

Thats an opinion we dont share.You welcome to your way of thinking but to me the retcon proposed in the Ulitimate Guide make far more changes than any of the one's seen in the G1 toon.Most of those could be chalked up to taking the dialog way to literaley [if you want exsamples just ask],but some of the retcon from THG make some fundamental changes that ,if it were so at the time the stories were told, would have made the storie flow in a different way.

By the way welcome back.

Thanks.

As for the retcons, remember, it wasn't the Ultimate Guide that introduced them to begin with. Beast Wars and the 3H Wreckers story did. All the Ultimate Guide did was compile all of the informnation currently in existance into a single volume. It didn't invent any of the information presented. All of the retcons, all of the infor,mation came from previously produced sources, both cartoon and comic book. All the Ultimate Guide did was compile this information and distill it into one volume. And believe me, compared to the number and extent of the retcons in Star Wars, the ones in Transformers are miniscule. The statement by Unicron saying he considered sparing Cybertron can easily be chalked up to a lie. Basically, he was goading Galvatron, telling him that Cybertron's destruction was [i]his[/b] fault because he betrayed his Master, when all along Uniron was planning to destroy Cybertron anyway.

As for Marvel goes, even though Unicron's body was destroyed, that does not mean he won't regenerate. Thus, with enough energon or sparks, Unicron could easily regenerate in time to create Galvatron in the future.

Your welcome and Beast Wars didnt really retcon anything.I alway saw Beast Wars as a 3rd continuity, all together by its self with parts from both the G1 toon and Marvel G1.

Even if he would have regenerated it still dosnt change Unicron himse;f saying that it was a different Unicron that built that Galvatron.

[Tramp]

Your welcome and Beast Wars didnt really retcon anything.I alway saw Beast Wars as a 3rd continuity, all together by its self with parts from both the G1 toon and Marvel G1.

Even if he would have regenerated it still dosnt change Unicron himse;f saying that it was a different Unicron that built that Galvatron.

Officially though, Beast Wars was supposed to be a part of the G1 cartoon continuity. Thus, it was a retcon to bring Primus into G1 cartoon continuity established by Beast Wars. The Wreckers story line too is set in G1 cartoon continuity.

as for Unicron in Marvel, Unicron wouldn't be the same in the future as in the past. I am certainly not the same as I was twenty years ago. I don't believe he meant that he ltiterally wasn't the same being, but rather, he was seaking temporally.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Your welcome and Beast Wars didnt really retcon anything.I alway saw Beast Wars as a 3rd continuity, all together by its self with parts from both the G1 toon and Marvel G1.

Even if he would have regenerated it still dosnt change Unicron himse;f saying that it was a different Unicron that built that Galvatron.

Officially though, Beast Wars was supposed to be a part of the G1 cartoon continuity. Thus, it was a retcon to bring Primus into G1 cartoon continuity established by Beast Wars. The Wreckers story line too is set in G1 cartoon continuity.

as for Unicron in Marvel, Unicron wouldn't be the same in the future as in the past. I am certainly not the same as I was twenty years ago. I don't believe he meant that he ltiterally wasn't the same being, but rather, he was seaking temporally.

"Officially" when the idea of Beast Wars was first pitched to Hasbro executives the charactor's of BM Megatro and Primal were supposed to be the same as their G1 counterparts.
Hasbro executives rejected this idea and told the producers to make it a fresh start to the franchise with no connection to the G1 or anyother Transformers story ever before told.But the writers still wanted to make it connect to G1 so to trick the Hasbro executives they plased a second moon on the planet that the BW's laned on and made the charactors desendents of the one's from G1.And the producers and writers of Beast Wars stated at a Beast wars panel at a TF convention I went to gods knows when that the Beast Wars came from a Almagum history of both G1 universes.That meens that at least at the time the show was being written it was not a dirrect continuation of the G1 toon or Marvel wether or not it is now by retcon is up to Hasbro.

[Tramp]

Close, but not quite. Originally, Besat Wars was going to be a new continuity, though they had plans to possibly integrate it into G1 cartoon continuity at a later date, which is why they were so vague early on. The writer himself had no previous knowledge of Transformers lore when he started. By the Second season though, it was decided to integrate it into pre-existing cartoon continuity by the writer after he had become exposed to the previous material. That is when the first retcons went into effect.

[Damolisher]

Tramp, you think EVERYTHING has the right to retcon the G1 cartoon.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Close, but not quite. Originally, Besat Wars was going to be a new continuity, though they had plans to possibly integrate it into G1 cartoon continuity at a later date, which is why they were so vague early on. The writer himself had no previous knowledge of Transformers lore when he started. By the Second season though, it was decided to integrate it into pre-existing cartoon continuity by the writer after he had become exposed to the previous material. That is when the first retcons went into effect.

Ok you just confirmed somthing I suspected for a lonk time about the writter but your wrong about 1 detail.....by the second season it was decided to integrate both Marvel G1 and the toon into the pre-history of Beast Wars not just the toon.....so in effect it makes BWs prehistory a 3rd continuity.But like I said wether or not it has been retcon since is up to hasbro.

[Tramp]

The only thing from Marvel they int4grated was the name of the Autobot's ship, the Ark, and Primus. Everything else came from the cartoon continuity, Thus, Beast Wars retconned the Primus origin into G1 cartoon continuity. The 3H Botcon comic story line Wreckers solidified that retcon, particularly in issue 3. The Ultimate Guide also confirms that Bob Forward intentionally integrated BW into G1 cartoon continuity in the second season. Thus, it was indeed season 2 of Beasty Wars is where the retcon making Primus the true creator of the Transformers in G1 cartoon continuity took place.

[Damolisher]

Ugh, for God's Sake, the QUINTESSONS WERE NOT RETCONNED OUT AS THE CREATORS OF THE TRANSFRMER RACE IN THE G1 CARTOON, AND RPIMUS WAS NOT RETCONNED IN. Tramp, YOu are the only one who thinks they were. And don't hit me with "Damolisher, blah blah blah, random bolding, random bolding, etc, etc, etc," like always. The Quintessons are the creators of the Transformers race to whichever writer wants them to be. In G.i. Joe Vs the Transformers Art of War, it states that the Quintessons created the Transformers, NOT Primus. And this came after Beast Wars. and as you keep druming into everyone, in your opinion, if something is created by someone with a license from Hasbro, it's canon.

[Tramp]

Yes, Damolisher, Primus was retconned in as the true creator of the Transformers in G1 cartoon continuity by Beats Wars and Wreckers. The retcon made the Quintessans enslavers of the Transformers, not creators.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The only thing from Marvel they int4grated was the name of the Autobot's ship, the Ark, and Primus. Everything else came from the cartoon continuity, Thus, Beast Wars retconned the Primus origin into G1 cartoon continuity. The 3H Botcon comic story line Wreckers solidified that retcon, particularly in issue 3. The Ultimate Guide also confirms that Bob Forward intentionally integrated BW into G1 cartoon continuity in the second season. Thus, it was indeed season 2 of Beasty Wars is where the retcon making Primus the true creator of the Transformers in G1 cartoon continuity took place.

If they take 1 thing or 1000 it still meen that there taking parts of that Universe......and it was Bob Forward himself amongest others at that Beast Wars panel [at the convention]who spoke on the fact that they would be taking parts of both universes to make BW's prehistory.

[Tramp]

The only thing from Marvel they int4grated was the name of the Autobot's ship, the Ark, and Primus. Everything else came from the cartoon continuity, Thus, Beast Wars retconned the Primus origin into G1 cartoon continuity. The 3H Botcon comic story line Wreckers solidified that retcon, particularly in issue 3. The Ultimate Guide also confirms that Bob Forward intentionally integrated BW into G1 cartoon continuity in the second season. Thus, it was indeed season 2 of Beasty Wars is where the retcon making Primus the true creator of the Transformers in G1 cartoon continuity took place.

If they take 1 thing or 1000 it still meen that there taking parts of that Universe......and it was Bob Forward himself amongest others at that Beast Wars panel [at the convention]who spoke on the fact that they would be taking parts of both universes to make BW's prehistory.

That may be, I wasn't there, but the fact remains that the continuity Beast Wars was directly attached to and made a part of was the G1 cartoon continuity. Secondly,m which conventiuon are you referring to, and what year?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The only thing from Marvel they int4grated was the name of the Autobot's ship, the Ark, and Primus. Everything else came from the cartoon continuity, Thus, Beast Wars retconned the Primus origin into G1 cartoon continuity. The 3H Botcon comic story line Wreckers solidified that retcon, particularly in issue 3. The Ultimate Guide also confirms that Bob Forward intentionally integrated BW into G1 cartoon continuity in the second season. Thus, it was indeed season 2 of Beasty Wars is where the retcon making Primus the true creator of the Transformers in G1 cartoon continuity took place.

If they take 1 thing or 1000 it still meen that there taking parts of that Universe......and it was Bob Forward himself amongest others at that Beast Wars panel [at the convention]who spoke on the fact that they would be taking parts of both universes to make BW's prehistory.

That may be, I wasn't there, but the fact remains that the continuity Beast Wars was directly attached to and made a part of was the G1 cartoon continuity. Secondly,m which conventiuon are you referring to, and what year?

Dude those we're my drinking years so I dont remember what year exactly but I think it was late 97 or mid 98 and I used to hitt a lot of convention back then 30 it could have been any of the larger one's Botcon,Cyber-con,Creation,Comic-con Wizard World or any of the smaller one's.Sorry bout that.Why do you ask?

[Tramp]

Just curious, and so I have a point of reference.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Just curious, and so I have a point of reference.

You'll have to forgive me then,I was having a lot of family troubles then and I was drinking like a fish.

[Tramp]

Pro noblem

[Damolisher]

Yeah, sure they have, Trampdolf, and that's why you seem to be the only person here who keeps saying that. Primus did not exist in the G1 cartoon Universe, and if he did, that sends your "Primus is immortal" theory out the window.

(Not to be confused with the 'Primus is immoral' theory, which highlight's Primus's notorious history in the robot porn industry.)Because when the Japanese continued G1, in Headmasters, Cybertron was blown up, and in that case, there went Primus with it. So in one or the other, you're screwed. You can't use one without ignoring the other.

[Tramp]

I'm not the only person who has said it. Canon sources say it. Whether you choose to accept those sources is up to you, but according to multiple canon sources, Primus is the true creator of the Transformers in all continuities, and exists in all continuities simultaneously, even the G1 cartoon continuity as established by Beast Wars and by Wreckers #3.

As for Headmasters, The planet was not completely destroyed, there was still plenty of it left intact. I saw the episode in question on Youtube. Primus could easily regenerate the planet over time, just as Unicron can.

[Damolisher]

You can keep saying it, it doesn't make it true. Primus did not exist in the G1 Cartoon.

[Tramp]

You can keep saying it, it doesn't make it true. Primus did not exist in the G1 Cartoon.

According to canon, he did. This was an official retcon by Hasbro first established in Beast Wars season two and confirmed in Wreckers #3, which is set in the G1 toon reality, Further established by Hasbro's Universe story line and stated flat out in the Ultimate Guide, all of these are canon sources. And it is these sources whoich say Primus did exist in the G1 toon reality. It is called retconning, which Hasbro has full authority to do. You may not like it, and may choose to ignore it, but it does not make it any less true.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

(Not to be confused with the 'Primus is immoral' theory, which highlight's Primus's notorious history in the robot porn industry.).

[Damolisher]

Uh, Hasbro doesnt' write the comics, dingus, the writers do. They don't go to Hasbro and say "What do you want me to do here?" Hence why the characters don't match up with their tech specs. Writers have different takes. So stop saying "Duh, Hasbro did this." Because they didn't. The writers did.

Primus wasn't a Hasbro creation in the first bloody place, it was a Furman Creation, and the only reason Primus even got mentioned in the Beast Wars Cartoons anyway, is because they heard the name in the comics, and didn't want to use the term "Jesus." so they used Primus instead. It's on an interview somewhere with the writers. What would they have used "Quintesson No?" or "For the love of Quintessa?" Didn't think so. Beast wars borrowed elements from comic AND cartoon, as you love pointing out. So there ya go, little history lesson for you, although I'll suppose because you have a different story, yours is right and mine is wrong, even though mine CAME from the writers.

[Tramp]

Uh, Hasbro doesnt' write the comics, dingus, the writers do. They don't go to Hasbro and say "What do you want me to do here?" Hence why the characters don't match up with their tech specs. Writers have different takes. So stop saying "Duh, Hasbro did this." Because they didn't. The writers did.

Primus wasn't a Hasbro creation in the first bloody place, it was a Furman Creation, and the only reason Primus even got mentioned in the Beast Wars Cartoons anyway, is because they heard the name in the comics, and didn't want to use the term "Jesus." so they used Primus instead. It's on an interview somewhere with the writers. What would they have used "Quintesson No?" or "For the love of Quintessa?" Didn't think so. Beast wars borrowed elements from comic AND cartoon, as you love pointing out. So there ya go, little history lesson for you, although I'll suppose because you have a different story, yours is right and mine is wrong, even though mine CAME from the writers.

Hasbro has to approve all stories, and does so. Even the writers have said as much. the Wreckers story line was approved by them, the Beast Wars story was approved by Hasbro, They all went through Hasbro's approval process before getting published or produced. I have given specific sources which prove this, You are giving a vague reference to some interview with no citation as to where it was printed. The sources I have cited specifically state that Primus and Unicron exist in all realities; Primus in all at once, and Unicron travels to each one at a time. They are the same Primus and same Unicron in all of them. These are canon sources that say this. Canon sources with Hasbro's full approval, and used by hasbro in their Universe story line as well, which is the multiversal cross-over storyline that draws characters from all of the mutiverse.

[Damolisher]

Yeah, whatever you say Tramp. as usual, Tramp, you're right. You're always right, Everyone else is always wrong. That's why you're soooooo popular. Uncited sources are never right, are they? Your sources always count. Even when you're faced with the fact no-one's ever heard of things from your lame arse sources, and when they do, they don't choose to use them, you still try to drum it into people. Why would Hasbro check the stories? They don't sell Beast Wars or G1 toys outside of reissues. Why not Takara? They're the ones who continue to do reissues, not Hasbro.

Tramp, You know next to nothing about Transformers. You think you know things which you don't. You claim the most ridiculous things that are not true, such as all Transformesr have indestructable sparks, and that's how the get brought back from death when it clearly isn't the case, or that Transformres can grow like humans when they're made of metal, adn the only way they grow is armour and upgrades. You are a troll. You try to force your way of thinking onto other people. Because YOU interpret how YOU read something, everyone else has to feel the same way or they're wrong. YOU are wrong. You will not accept compromises, you have to be RIGHT. This is why you are unpopular here- you are a prat who thinks he's always right, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I'm not the only person who has said it. Canon sources say it. Whether you choose to accept those sources is up to you, but according to multiple canon sources, Primus is the true creator of the Transformers in all continuities, and exists in all continuities simultaneously, even the G1 cartoon continuity as established by Beast Wars and by Wreckers #3.

As for Headmasters, The planet was not completely destroyed, there was still plenty of it left intact. I saw the episode in question on Youtube. Primus could easily regenerate the planet over time, just as Unicron can.

Hold on a sec......Habro and the ultimate Guide does not and CAN NOT effect the continuity of the Japanese shows.

[Damolisher]

He seems to think it does, since the Japanese continuities "count just as much as ours do over here!" So it must effectthe Japanese continuities, because what happens in Japan effects things over here, as Tramp kept telling everyone in the Trasnformer Reproduction Thread, after being told by 3 or 4 people his Manga didn't count. (Although going by him, I was probably the only one saying THAT was non-canon too, regardless of the fact I can give names.)