The Energon Pub

Orion never grew. He was killed and rebuilt. And as for Tramps ridiculous growth theory, give it up already. You're illogical delusions based only on pervcieved theory are getting ridiculous. Just because you have a THEORY, don't try to shove it down people who disproves it's throats as FACT. And Tramp, Lithonians AREN'T TRANSFORMERS!

What the hell is your problem? Honestly, people tell you facts, and you still ignore them and try to use ideas you've been told are wrong, non-canon sources and out-of-date profile books which apply to ONE CONTINUITY ONLY to argue against people.

Now then, As I've said before, which you're just going to ignore anyway, so I don't know why I waste my time, Wheelie was programmed as a child. No Transformer ever grows up. What a stupid idea. They're made of metal, and their circuitry DOES NOT GROW. Auto Bot is correct- No Transformer ever grows physically (Why the hell would they, doofus?) but mentally.

You say we see "All Transformers at some stage of growth, but we don't see them grow!" What's your point, meatsack? That should be proof they don't grow. Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, Seaspray, Brawn, Gears, Huffer, Beachcomber, all the minibots are small in stature, yet they're adults, aren't they? Now then, growth would harm things like Transformation and disguise. It would cause uneven paint jobs. The only Transformers we see grow are a Matrix Assisted Rodimus Prime, and a Matrix cursed Scourge in the G1 Cartoon. Never again.

You never see a Transformer grow because they can't. Where do you see other so-called children Transformers outside of Wheelie? (Lithonians are NOT Transformers. They're a different race completely. Although I SHOULDN'T have to tell you that, you've been told plenty already.) You don't. Tkae the following Transformers who are "Adults" after being created:

CARTOON
Dinobots
Constructicons
Aerialbots
Stunticons
Predacons
Technobots

MARVEL COMIC
Omega Supreme
Jetfire
Seacons
Constructicons

BEAST WARS
Blackarachnia
Silverbolt
Quickstrike
Inferno
Tigatron
Airazor

All were adults at Creation. Hell, Strafe asks Grimlock pointblank at one point "Are you my father?" And Grimlock replies "You could say that, yes."

Which means my theory of the father being whomever created you, also, correct.

*Whew* That was a lot of typing for something you're just gonna ignore and bullshit your way through, huh, Tramp?

(Oh, and PS, clearly you're too ignorant to understand the fact that we don't have the bloody Dinoforce, WE HAD THE GODDAMN MONSTER PRETENDERS! Stop talking about the freakin' Dinoforce! They aren't Children in the Anime.)

And Damolisher, how many times do I have to say that we are not talking strictly US and UK continuities. Rather, we are talking all TF canon, both US/UK and Japanese. It is all fair game and all relevant. Secondly, every one of the characters you mentioned were created from protoforms, which is not what we are talking about. We are talkign about the expmples of characters like Wheelie, like th Lithonian children—and yes, there is evidence that suggests that they are indeed descended from Cybertron, including the Marvel Universe handbooks— and the children of the Dino Force from the Japanese manga. Those are all TF children, not fully grown adults.

Why is it you always respond with the same crap about "All continuities", by which you mean to include the Japanese continuities. It's not. Most people don't know, or care about some of the Japanese stuff. The Dinoforce don't exist over here. Most people don't even give a rat's arse about Masterforce or Victory or Zone or anything, because we have our characters and our continuities, and in case you haven't noticed, this isn't a Japanese board. I could go on about Super Sentai on a Power Rangers board, it wouldn't matter, since Super Sentai has nothing to do with Power Rangers, much like Zone Victory and Masterforce have nothing to do with anything over here.


And as I've told you time and time again, you ignorant troll, they're programmed as children in any instance.
And I love how you completely ignored everything not relating to my comments about the multiple continuities, Wheelie and the Lithonians. Why's that, can't argue with my points? Or are you just waiting until after I post this to hit me with a generic reply? I'm getting pissed off with "They may do this" or "They could do this!" When it's obvious they don't, and logic dictates they couldn't. Stop pawning off retarded fanwank as facts and shoving it down everyone's throats.

Damolisher, this board is not striclty a US/UK board. We have emmbers from the US, UK, Autralia, New Zealnd (like yourself) and Japan, among others. It is an internationalmessage board. On top of that, it doesn't only deal with US/UK transformers. It also deals with the Japanese Transformers. Thus, it is all fair game and all relevant. Thus, I will not limit my evidence to just the US/UK material. I will continue to utilize every piece of TF canon from around the world, both US/UK and Japanese.

Tramp, you're a dick, OK? You know exactly what I meant. It's an English language board. As in, the website is English. And there are plenty of users who don't know and/or care about the Japanese cartoons. And you utilize it because you don't want to admit you're wrong, which is why you ignored everything not about Wheelie or the Dinoforce in your last post, and in your most recent post.

Damolisher wrote:Tramp, you're a dick, OK? You know exactly what I meant. It's an English language board. As in, the website is English. And there are plenty of users who don't know and/or care about the Japanese cartoons. And you utilize it because you don't want to admit you're wrong, which is why you ignored everything not about Wheelie or the Dinoforce in your last post, and in your most recent post.

And there are plenty Einglish-speaking TF fans on this board who know and enjoy the Japanese shows, and who do care about them, including apparently the owner of this site since if you look in the Database, it contains both Japanese and US/UK material, and goes primarily by the Japanese series names.

Secondly, seeing different child characters of the same race, at different ages, being taller or smaller as a result of age is evidence of growth. The only way we would see an individual character grow is over a long period of time. It isn't Zip and they're five feet taller in two seconds. IT isn't instantaineous. We don't even grow that fast. The Dino Force have children in the Japanese manga. Wheelie is a child in both the Japanese series and in the US cartoons and comics. They aren't "programmed". No Transformer is "programmed". If they were "programmed", they wouldn't be living beings. They are living beings who learn, have emotions, heal, eat, and do everything else that living beings do, whether machine-based or organic. And, yes, Lithonians are Transformers. They are related to Cybertronians, just as the Junkions are. Thus, they are also completely relevant and applicable. And, sisnce we are discussing multiple contin uiteis, then evidence from any continuity is appropriate, and this includes DW and TUG, and Japanese and US material. Nothing is excluded.

Now, Damolisher, we can continue to go back and forth on this or we can get back to the original point iof this thread which is to discuss theories on how Transformers can reproduce sexually presuming it is possible, and how the offspring from these unions grow to adulthood. That is the purpose of this thread, not arguing whether it is possible or not. So, can we please call a truce and agree to disagree?

Tramp, I have to agree with Damolisher on this.

ROBOTS with METALIC skin CANNOT FREAKING GROW, OK?

Nanomites CANNOT wedge themselves between metal and increase mass, GOT IT?

Transformers CAN be built 'grown up', then given s spark by Primus, and personality by Vecotor Sigma, kay?

Stop going by the perverted idea of Transformers humping each other until a baby falls out of the female's....

Agghh. You know what I am saying.

Damolisher, since I agree with you on this, then how do YOU think Transformers 'reproduce'?

BUT, Damolisher, I have to disagree that Lithonians are not Transformers/Cybertronians. How do you know that Lithoniand (and Junkions) did not start out as Transformers, then inhabit other planets?

Durge344 wrote:

Eradicator wrote:Tramp, reading your posts, you are beginning to freak me out with the whole egg pod, nozel, and that stuff. (perverted, much?)

Lets agree that METAL cannot grow.
ROBOTS are not gonna start humping each other. No way.

Can I give you my theory on the reproduction? Well too bad, cuz I am.

Ok, so you have a female and a male robot. you put them together. Their SPARKS mingle together, forming a seperate spark (but the 'parent's' sparks still remain). Ten, the sark is taken to a protoform. The protoform is uploaded the genetic code of the 'parents'. The spark is then placed in it. It wakes up after scanning an object. After a SHORT time of the robot gaining sentience and understand the history and whatnot of Cybertron, it is given armor. The more aromor, the taller. Thus 'growing up.'

So is this a good theory or not??

Plus, as for the human esque 'sex' emotions (Blackarachnia kissing Silverbolt), you have to remember that the Transformers have learned our cultre. Maybe it just means a sign of love, not anything sexual, get the point?

HEY! THAT'S MY THEORIE! I WAS ABOUT TO POST THAT! ah well, great minds think alike

LOL! Are you kidding me?

What would your full theory be in your own words?

Sorry, Tramp, but I'm going to have to side against you. Having robots growe makes absolutly no sence.
I still say they would be created by a mass of the Mother's/Father's nano-bots, makeing a new body from available materials and creating a new Spark from the two parent Sparks.
Still, I think it's obvious that Tramp and Damolisher (and me) will not give up thier ideas and will fight to the death to protect them, so I really see no point in arguing.

Eradicator wrote:Tramp, I have to agree with Damolisher on this.

ROBOTS with METALIC skin CANNOT FREAKING GROW, OK?

Nanomites CANNOT wedge themselves between metal and increase mass, GOT IT?

Transformers CAN be built 'grown up', then given s spark by Primus, and personality by Vecotor Sigma, kay?

Stop going by the perverted idea of Transformers humping each other until a baby falls out of the female's....

Agghh. You know what I am saying.

Damolisher, since I agree with you on this, then how do YOU think Transformers 'reproduce'?

BUT, Damolisher, I have to disagree that Lithonians are not Transformers/Cybertronians. How do you know that Lithoniand (and Junkions) did not start out as Transformers, then inhabit other planets?

Eradicator, we already know that Transformers can be built from protoforms as adult bodies and then imbued with a spark. This is how a majorioty of them are created. That is not in dispute.

What everyone here is discussing is methods which do not require protoforms at all, and do presume that some form of sexual reproduction is possible, which is supported by various canon sources. The exact process of how it works is what everyone here is theorizing. Secondly, as evidenced by the Lithonians, and Wheelie as well as the children of the Dino Force from the Japanese mangas, we also have evidence of some Transformers growing from infancy through a childhood stage into adulthood. The Lithonians alone show them in various stages of growth with children of varied hights and ages, from small children, to preteens, to adolescnts, to adults. Every stage of development is shown, This shows growth. On top of that, yes, metals can "grow" and have mass added to them depending upon its composition and structural make-up. If the entire structure of the metals that make up a Cybertronian's body is made of nanomachines, which they are according to at least two sources, then yes, they could very easily grow as the nanomachines replicate. IF, as stated in the movie, it is some form of "liquid metal", then once again, it can grow and add substance. In both cases, this is how Transformers heal as well. This makes it quite possible for them to grow physically as they get older.

Whiner-tron wrote:Sorry, Tramp, but I'm going to have to side against you. Having robots growe makes absolutly no sence.
I still say they would be created by a mass of the Mother's/Father's nano-bots, makeing a new body from available materials and creating a new Spark from the two parent Sparks.
Still, I think it's obvious that Tramp and Damolisher (and me) will not give up thier ideas and will fight to the death to protect them, so I really see no point in arguing.

If they can't grow, how would you cover the examples of the Lithonians and other TF children of various ages and varioous stages of develoopment and growth from childhood to adulthood. Changing into new bodies isn't an option, and really wouldn't make sense from a practical point of view. There is physical evidence of growth. Also, since they are made up of nanomachines, what is stopping them from growing through replication of the nanomachines that make up their bodies? We grow through the replication of the cells which make up our bodies. It's the same process. Another process is reformatting, and the growth happening during that process. We do see this when a new Prime is chosen and when a TF takes on a new alternate mode. A Cybertronian child could at certain ages, go through a reformatting to the next stage of development, much like a butterfly goes through a larval, pupal and adult stage, or a grasshopper goes through a nymph and adult stage, etc. As they reformat, the nanites which make them up could replicate, increasing their size and mass from the foods they have consumed for this purpose, to the next stage in their development, taking on the next form, which may or may not simply be a larger, more mature version of their previous form. and, if it is done through a process of molting the old "skin", as happens in the Movie Guide, this makes the process even easier, On top of this, sevearl Transformers are able to volutarily increase and decrease their size and/or mass during transformation. Therefore, why wouldn't all of them be capable of growing as they age? It's pretty much the same principal.

Oh, Tramp, STFU. You've given your point over and over and over again. WE get it: You're a future mental patient who doesn't understand the concepts of building, programming, computers or metal, and you think all robots do things exactly the same way as humans only with different parts. Now shut up and let others say their piece. And as I said before, which you keep ignoring, moron, every single Transformer we've seen being made (as I said, Dinobots, Constructicons, Omega, etc,) are adults, Same with Megatron. TRANSFORMERS DON'T HAVE CHILDHOODS. IF THEY'RE CREATED AS CHILDREN, THEY STAY THAT WAY. Bumblebee and the other minibots aren't getting taller.

Or have you forgotten that Transformres actually, oh, I don't know, TRANSFORM?! And if they shed and ****, they couldn't Transform properly anymore. Christ, what sort of sad idiot thinks Metal can grow?

And Eradicator, as I said, the Matrix is the source of all sparks. MTMTE issue 8 backs me up on this. We've been shown in every medium that Transformers are built by other Transformers, and that they are either programmed by Vector Sigma. Megatron states in the cartoon that all Transformers are programmed by Vector Sigma, and the Matrix is also capable of curing and creating life. I see no feasible way two Transformers can "Make a baby", unless they create a protoform and download their memories and fighting styles into the protoform.

And as for Mass-shifting, the writers had to find some excuse for the sloppy animation and for the highly questionable point.

Damolisher, I'm not talking about Minibots. I'm talking about children. Children like the Lithonian children, Children like the Dino Force's children. Children like Wheelie. Not Minibots like Bumblebee, Huffer, Gears, and Brawn.

Secondly, it is the Movie Guide which states Transformers shed their current outer shells/armor to revert back to "protoform" state for travel between planets, then reformatting themselve with new alternate modes and armor when they reach a new planet. Theoretically, this same process could be used for growth.

On top of that, the Matrix is the gateway to the Allspark, but as has also been stated, the Decepticons don't have access to the Matrix or Vector Sigma. They imbue protoforms by attemtping to attune the protoforms to an energy wavelength similar to that of the Matrix and then applying a concentrated burst of energon. This is their only method of imbuing a protoform with a Spark. Thus it is not the only source of Sparks. IT is the primary and most effective source, but not the only source. The source of all Sparks is Primus' own Spark: The Allspark. The Matrix is simply a conduit to the Allspark. MtMtE #8 also states that the use of Protoforms is not the only way of creating new TF life; there are other untapped methods, and it is those other methods we are discussing. The entire premise of this thread presumes that some form of sexual reproduction is possible, and there is enough canon evidence to support this possibility even if you can't accept it.

Also, Of course solid metal can't grow, but as has already been established by canon, Transformers are not made of solid metal. They are made up of intelinked "cell like" nanomachines—their "regenerative circuitry". That is what their protoforms start out as, and what they develop from. They aren't solid metal. That means it is possible for them to grow as the nanomcahines that make them up replicate.

Hey, Eradicator asked for my bloody opinion, alright? I'm getting sick of every time someone post a different opinion to yours, you have to drop the Gettysburg address on them. Why don't you shut the hell up and let someone else say their piece? Just because everyone else thinks logically, and you're some sad arsehead who doesn't understand what metal is doesn't give you the right to keep shitting on everyone. You've repeatedly said your piece, now shut up and let others have their turn.

Tramp, you're an idiot. You think because something leaves something open for interpretation, just because you take it one way, everyone else HAS to take it the same way as you, you're wrong. Here's the thing, meatsack, ponder this:

You don't understand jokes, satire, or humour of any kind, and you constantly misinterpret what people try to say here. What makes you think it's any different with books?

And as for that utterly moronic remark about them not being made of metal, of course they're made of metal, you dolt. They're robots. They're referred to as metal morons, etc by other characters, and they talk about their armour and that being made of metal. I've heard you made some stupid statements before in order to attempt poorly to win an argument, but that's number one on the "Most retarded things Tramp's ever said" list. Hell, there's the beast Wars line "TransMETALS." (And don't try to tell me "Duh, but the toys were METAL." because they weren't. I own a couple.)

Well, if you actually gave a theory of how Transformers could reproduce through some form of sexual process, a process which does not require the use of a factory-built protoform, instead of saying it is impossible and that there is only one way for new Transformers to create new life, then we wouldn't be arguing. As has been said by many others, this thread is a discussion on potential methods of reproduction which does not require protoforms, and instead uses some form of merging of a male and female Transformer.

Damolisher wrote:And as for that utterly moronic remark about them not being made of metal, of course they're made of metal, you dolt. They're robots. They're referred to as metal morons, etc by other characters, and they talk about their armour and that being made of metal. I've heard you made some stupid statements before in order to attempt poorly to win an argument, but that's number one on the "Most retarded things Tramp's ever said" list. Hell, there's the beast Wars line "TransMETALS." (And don't try to tell me "Duh, but the toys were METAL." because they weren't. I own a couple.)

I said they aren't made out of solid metal. Not out of metal at all. Their body structure is made of nanonachines interlinked like the cells of an organic life form. Their skelitons, a honey-comb of nanites interlocked together, the same with their armor, their joints, their optics, their internal systems, et.all. This is what allows them to heal. Those nanites are made up of metals, silicon and other minerals and subastances. They aren't solid.

The Original post doesn't say sexually, if you'll actually pull your head out of your arse and read. It says "Theories on How Transformers Reproduce."

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:And as for that utterly moronic remark about them not being made of metal, of course they're made of metal, you dolt. They're robots. They're referred to as metal morons, etc by other characters, and they talk about their armour and that being made of metal. I've heard you made some stupid statements before in order to attempt poorly to win an argument, but that's number one on the "Most retarded things Tramp's ever said" list. Hell, there's the beast Wars line "TransMETALS." (And don't try to tell me "Duh, but the toys were METAL." because they weren't. I own a couple.)

I said they aren't made out of solid metal. Not out of metal at all. Their body structure is made of nanonachines interlinked like the cells of an organic life form. Their skelitons, a honey-comb of nanites interlocked together, the same with their armor, their joints, their optics, their internal systems, et.all. This is what allows them to heal. Those nanites are made up of metals, silicon and other minerals and subastances. They aren't solid.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're not groovy, funky-fresh, dope or fly either, but they're still metal. As I said: Beast Wars: TRANSMETALS. Not Transpart-metals-part-nanite-part-silicon and a load of other crappers. In every comic or TV series, they're made of metal, dolt. How stupid can you be, honestly? It's like arguing with a special ed kid or something who's been lied to by his mean older brother and won't listen to others because he believes his brother, even though other relatives in his family have been saying otherwise for the past 20 years.

Damolisher wrote:The Original post doesn't say sexually, if you'll actually pull your head out of your arse and read. It says "Theories on How Transformers Reproduce." And once again, you ignore the rest of the post. Trying to concoct more incorrect bullshit?

Damolisher, this entire thread is about alternate methods of reproduction. and it is presumed by everyone invbolved that some form of sexual rerpoduction is possible, whether or not it actually is. All you have done is attempt to shoot down any theory that involves sexual reproduction. You have not once provided a theory that does not involve the use of protoforms. In fact just the opposite, you have stated flat out that protoforms are the only method possible, an that has already been disproven. Can you come up with a theory that doesn't involve a protoform. Can you come up with a theory that includes some form of sexual process, not necessarily physical intercourse, simply the union of the genetic code from a male and female? If so, we would all love to hear it. Don't tell us what is impossible. Tell us what is possible. Remove the word impossible from your vocabulary for this thread.

Secondly, Damolisher, I never said that they weren't made of metal, Just that they weren't solid metal. There is a difference.

OK, will you STOP TRYING TO BE RIGHT ALL THE TIME! IT SAY REPRODUCTION NOT **** SEXUAL REPRODUCTION AND ERADICATOR ASKED ME HOW I THOUGHT THEY REPRODUCED IF NOT SEXUALLY! For once in your life, shut the hell up and admit you were wrong.

And yeah, they're made of solid metal. Not nanites, you mook, metal. Hence why you hear other Transformers refer to METAL.

Nanomachines are made of metal and silicon. Transformers are made of nanomachines That is what they all start out as. Page 80 of TUG states as much. "The sheilded metal stasis pods contain Maximal protoforms(masses if gray, shapeless gel filled with nanomachinery)..." MtMtE #8 describes them further as skelital masses of partially formed circuits. It is nanomachinery that make up the basci composition of every Transformer. They aren't solid metal. Transfrmers are formed of these nanomachines. They aren't solid. Their armor is not solid. It's a honeycomb of nanomachines. Their skeletons aren't solid they're interlocked nanomachines. That is their structire. Even the movie say that they aren't solid metal. They are made up of self-replicating nanites. They just appear solid.

OK, seriously, are you beginning to suffer from senility at your age? because it would explain a lot of things. TRANSFOREMRS ARE MADE OF METAL YOU OBSEQUIOUS JERK. It doesnt' mater what your retarded guide says, or what the F-ing movie says. FOR THE PAST 23 F-ING YEARS, TRANSFORMERS HAVE BEEN MADE OF METAL. Just because your 2 out of date sources say they're not doesn't mean ****. You're only agreeing with them once again, because your poopy little openly interpreted argument depends on them. You said before they were only INTERNAL. Once again proof you're an imbecile who only argues with people because he doesn't like being wrong.

Then again if I had a crush on Airazor and Nightbird, I'd need something to hold onto as well.

Anyway, I'm not responding to anymore of your crap. Everyone of your posts is the same: Quote me, use my name, start running your mouth and bolding random words along the way to seem more intelligent, in the process ignoring the fact that you've been told countless times none of your source material counts anymore, or doesnt' count in the first place, or it contradicts everything we already know, you try to use big words to be cute, act like a dick, backpeddle, contradict yourself, and lie. Just shut up, no-one's buying your poopy theory that Transformers "Grow."

Neither of the sources I have given are aout of date. And if they were, then so is the old cartoon and Marvel comic, both of which are even older. Age of the material is irrelevant. The books are relelvant and prove that Transformers are not solid metal, but rather made from tiny nanites which are themselves composed of various metals and silicon. No one is saying that they aren't made of metal. They aren't solid metal, and that is proven by at least three sources. They are made of metal, but not solid metal. The metal is in the form of nanomachinery. That is what makes them up acording to canon.

Can't you debate anything without screaming and calling people names? Chill out.