Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:A: show me a credible source that says alien robots have to be able to reproduce sexually in order to be considered living, even among science
fiction.
B:More than Meets the eye #8 not only contradicts DREAMWAVE comics themselves, it has elements that contradict all other TF continuities, & more importantly the original comics & cartoon...& even if you could consider it valid, it is a TF universe all of itself & does not bleed over into other TF universes unless other writers decide to take elements from it. But even still, that would not be retroactive. It wouldn't undo G1, which it is not (using g1 characters to create a new story & being G1 itself are 2 different animals.) & being 1 comic among hundereds that create TF mythos total makes it obscure, especially since the go-to guy that wrote most...nearly all....of the TF comics total does not agree.
C: By your standard of canon, anything that Hasbro slaps the Autobot or Decepticon logo on is canon.
mirriam-webster wrote:Canon: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works
Which I would assume means anything with a TF logo on it. Kinda funny you claim this here, yet in the previously locked thread (only bring this up to make a point, not even going to attempt to let that argument leak over here) you said that in order for Soundwave to be Soundwave, he had to be a music player, had to mass-shift, had to have detatchable minions, & had to do espionage missions himself, & would not accept other examples of stuff Hasbro sanctioned as being canon (I.E. Machine Wars Soundwave) as being the "true" soundwave. & yet here in this thread, you say anything relating to the slightest inkling of story that says female TF are for reproduction is accepted & law in the TF multiverse. That being said, if you are going to argue this point, argue canon & not Soundwave. That is done & locked. Leave it at that.
D: One thing that you keep forgetting is that above all else, every series that Hasbro comes up with, liscenses out, whatever, right under that TF logo there is a few more words there that specifically dictate the ultimate canon among Transformers:
ROBOTS IN DISGUISE. & that goes first & foremost before any other part of TF mythos. To me that says they are robots, they are machines. & even if they are living organisms, it does not overshadow the fact that they are robots in transformer
fiction.
Another definition I pulled from Mirriam-webster:
fiction- an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth
In transformer
fiction, robots can be considered living without meeting said criteria for being alive.
& once again, to top all arguments about the need for female robots to procreate: the only reason for female robots in the first place was to give counterbalance the genderless yet masculine robots in a needless attempt to make Transformers more politically correct.
But believe what you want...I know you will anyway. I'm done with this.
Nemesis, no one is saying that they aren't
robots. The point is that they are still
life forms. Secondly, I
have posted credible sources regarding what the definition of life is and what criteria
must be met for
all life, regardless of whether it is organic, robotic, crytaline or anything else.
If it doe snot meet all of that criteria, it is not life. If you chose to ignore that credible evidence that is your doing. It doesn't discount its credibility. I posted two links that gave the
scientific criteria that must be met for something to be classified as life. Transformers are classified as
life. They are robotic
life. The key word here is
"life" All life must meet the seven criteria for life. It does not matter what that life is composed of.
Not only that, but you are ignoring evidence from G1 itself, including the cartoon.
Wreckgar was married, as Thunder Thruster pointed out. Elita-1 and Optimus Prime were
lovers, as were Ironhide and Chromia, Moonracer and Powerglide, and Firestar and Inferno. What purpose does romance have for non-sexual beings?
None. Only sexual beings engage in courtship. What purpose would asexual beings have for genders or gender identities, why would they evolve naturally if not for reproduction?
They wouldn't. Asexual life forms have
no need for genders or gender identities
at all. They are neither h"He" nor "she" and have no gender-specific identiying features. They areneither masculine nor feminine and do not take on these characteristics. Those characteristics are
completely unique to sexually reproducing life Third, MtMtE does not contradict itself or the rest of DW continuity. Much of the "apparent" contradictions are covered in
TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide, and shown not to be contradictions at all. On top of that, The so-called "Contradictions" to the previous continuities were
fixes to create a single unified continuity. On top of that, all continuities still follow the
same laws. The only things that are different for each are the specific events.
On top of that, comparing this debate to the one in the Soundwave thread is apples and oranges. That thread was discussing
iconic designs and features, and their importance to that character. This debate encompasses
all continuities, not just G1, and is looking at the
common threads in
all of the TF continuities. This includes G1 cartoon, G1 Marvel comics, G1 DW comics, the Japanese cartoons and mangas, BW and BM, RID, AEC, the movie,
everything. What evidence is predominant in all or most of these continuities? Just about all of them have Primus as the creator of the Transformers, not the Quintessans (except the original cartoon, and even that can be properly retconned without screwing up what the shows themselve said.) This can even be reconciled with the G1 cartoon as the Quintessans conquering Cybertron in prehistory, enslaving the ancient Cybertronians and,through their own manipulation, created the two different "breeds".
In nearly every continuity, save the Marvel continuity, there have been male and female Cybertronians from their creation by Primus.
They were born with genders from the beginning. Arcee was not created to better interact with Earth people. She has been around for centuries. Elita-1 was not created to integrate with humans. She was around long before Humans ever evolved. The same is true with Moonracer, Chromia, and Firestar, as well as Black Arachnia, Airazor, and any of the other femmes throughout the TF multiverse. You can't tell me that Wreckgar's wife was created to interact with humans, nor Esmeryl, nor Lyzak, Black Arachnia, or any of the others.
You have been given solid canon evidence of robotic life forms closely related to Cybertronians, believed to be decended from them (the Lithonians) who clearly have
families. There are canon examples of Cybertronian
children. Tranformers created from Protoforms emerge as
fully formed adults, not children.
Wheelie was a child. Don't tell me he was just a minibot. He was a child. The movie said he was a child, his bio also says he is young. the comics make him out as a child. He is treated like a child. He
is a
child. Protoform-born Transformers do not emerge as children in children's bodies. They emerge as adults in adult bodies.
If they made them, I would hope that they would make them slightly feminine, but without going too far like they did with the Autobot femmes. I don't like the "high heels" for feet. Nor should they be pink. What would be a good "look" for a femme Seeker? And how should one tell that she is a lady?
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