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Most of these animals ie - the laserbeaks and rambles from the Cybertron continuity are depicted as genderless and non-sentient. I'm going for some form of self-replication here, as it would explain away their all-consuming and swarm-like nature, similar to those blue bug-things from Stargate and Tribbles.Tramp wrote:Another thing that we need to look at is the wildlife on Cybertron, which we know exists. Both G1 Mirage's and movie Arcee's bios state that they each hunt turbo-foxes for sport, an animal. A mechaniod animal. I highly doubt these are made in factories. They would need to self-reproduce, probably just like a real fox. Also, look at the Scrap-metals/Rambles from Cybertron/Galaxy Force These are bugs that travel form planet to planet devouring everything in their paths. Certainly no one would intentionally be making these in factories. They would have to be capable of breeding. Another example of autopoietic reproduction, and probably sexual reproduction.
slycherrychunks wrote:Most of these animals ie - the laserbeaks and rambles from the Cybertron continuity are depicted as genderless and non-sentient. I'm going for some form of self-replication here, as it would explain away their all-consuming and swarm-like nature, similar to those blue bug-things from Stargate and Tribbles.Tramp wrote:Another thing that we need to look at is the wildlife on Cybertron, which we know exists. Both G1 Mirage's and movie Arcee's bios state that they each hunt turbo-foxes for sport, an animal. A mechaniod animal. I highly doubt these are made in factories. They would need to self-reproduce, probably just like a real fox. Also, look at the Scrap-metals/Rambles from Cybertron/Galaxy Force These are bugs that travel form planet to planet devouring everything in their paths. Certainly no one would intentionally be making these in factories. They would have to be capable of breeding. Another example of autopoietic reproduction, and probably sexual reproduction.
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
Electron wrote:sledge your comments are like a fat chick raping a hot dog, its unpleasent to watch but in the end its gonna happen
Mr O wrote:I'm part Irish, part Scottish, very Welsh, mostly drunk, somewhat Transformers nerd and all bastard.
Actually it is. I was point out in fiction anything can happen reguardless of the laws of science applied in real life, so long as you're willing to suspend your disbelief. Just as the kid's doll is "alive", the Transformers can also be "alive" simply because somebody decides they are.....without meeting the real-life scientific criteria for life.A little girl's doll in a "let's pretend" is not an issue.
slycherrychunks wrote:Most of these animals ie - the laserbeaks and rambles from the Cybertron continuity are depicted as genderless and non-sentient. I'm going for some form of self-replication here, as it would explain away their all-consuming and swarm-like nature, similar to those blue bug-things from Stargate and Tribbles.Tramp wrote:Another thing that we need to look at is the wildlife on Cybertron, which we know exists. Both G1 Mirage's and movie Arcee's bios state that they each hunt turbo-foxes for sport, an animal. A mechaniod animal. I highly doubt these are made in factories. They would need to self-reproduce, probably just like a real fox. Also, look at the Scrap-metals/Rambles from Cybertron/Galaxy Force These are bugs that travel form planet to planet devouring everything in their paths. Certainly no one would intentionally be making these in factories. They would have to be capable of breeding. Another example of autopoietic reproduction, and probably sexual reproduction.
Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Actually it is. I was point out in fiction anything can happen reguardless of the laws of science applied in real life, so long as you're willing to suspend your disbelief. Just as the kid's doll is "alive", the Transformers can also be "alive" simply because somebody decides they are.....without meeting the real-life scientific criteria for life.
Your own argument can be used against you easily simply by the fact that you are deciding yourself what disbelief others should or shouldn't suspend....& apparently, it's ok to think that robots, aside from being metal-based, function near exact to how humans do down to the cellular makeup & reproductive organs, but it's too far of a stretch to think that they could be considered alive without meeting the real-life scientific criteria. & in the past 23 years of enjoying transformers, not once did I hear anybody ever say that alien robots being considered alive was utter bullsh*t, because they suspended their disbelief.
It has already been established that MTMTE #8 does not mention reproduction, & the only other source that directly shows reproduction was that obscure japanese Manga, which after reading up about it....was only added for comic relief & was not meant to be taken as serious canon (The whole purpose of the destrons stealing energy, causing mass destruction, & continuing a full-blown war was to save the starvin' children Rolling Eyes ).
Your reasoning is utter bullsh*t, your sources are utter bullsh*t, & your whole angle for why TFs have to be able to have sex can be condensed to one simple reason: because you think they should. You are not willing to suspend your diseblief to consider that life in fiction can be considered alive without meeting the criteria for life. But just because you can't see them as being alive, just like in the scenario above with the doll, dosen't mean others can't either. & I'm not talking about just the posters in this thread. I'm talking about anybody that has ever picked up a toy, watched a cartoon, or read a comic. [/i]
Zombie Starscream wrote:I forgot about the animals and the Scrap-Metals. Supposedly either could just split in half by division, but that is the only other way I could think of besides sexual reproduction that they could reproduce.
They can't use Vector Sigma, they have no access to a Creation Matrix, and all other generations besides the first couple are probably not built in factories. Plus as they are animals, they may not even know how to use these things.
I imagine they eventually evolved to become very fast, to catch prey and to escape predators. I also imagine they have a keen sense of smell and hearing so they could detect a predator and escape before it could catch them, probably something even faster maybe or is stealthier. It could be they can run very fast or fly, or they have wheels to move around.
Starscream is a female in France. I have heard it from several people on here. I think when the French dubbers heard the high pitched voice Latta did, they thought that Starscream was a female character in the show. So when they redubbed the cartoon, they went with a female actor to go with a "female" character.
See, this was exactly what I was talking about. You are deciding for yourself what can & cannot be suspended. How is life in a fantasy setting existing without meeting real-life criteria more unbeilevable to a giant robot being able to shrink down to the size of a handheld devce? The answer is it's not. You think it is, & therefore you are trying to dictate to everybody else what has to be believed, & what can be tossed aside. & the most hillarious part of all of this is....you're just a fan like the rest of us. You're not Hasbro, you're not Takara, You're not a cartoon writer, you're not Simon Furman....yet you're acting like you're calling the shots on what is accepted & what is ignored, & so therefore Transformers cannot just build more & be considered alive in a fantasy setting, they have to have sex,.....& all of this based on obscure comics/manga & real-life science that doesn't apply to fiction except because you say it does & you can't accept that in fiction, life can exist without meeting your precious criteria for real life.As for this being fiction and thus exempt from sicentific law goes, that is BS. All scinece fiction has to have a basis in science. IT has to meet certain scientific realities or it will fall apart. You cannot ignore everything. That is why it is called Sicence Fiction. Sou still need to keep that scientific basis grounded in reality. Some things you can "stretch" such as mass conversion and faster-than-light travel. But others cannot be messed with without destroying suspension of disbelief. What determines what is or is not life is not something that can really be messed with or overlooked. It is these criteria which are universal to every form of life, both known and unknown, both real and theoretical, and our only gauge to determine if what we discover on other worlds is life or not. That is why it cannot be overlooked. These seven criteria are all we have to determine if we are alone in the universe. That is why they cannot be ignored even in science fiction.
Tramp wrote:
Damolisher, I know as much, if not more, about the TransFormers than you. I'm probably a lot older than you and have been watching and reading the TransFormers from the very beginning. What I don't know I look up. Secondly, you do not make the determination of what is and is not canon. Period. Everything officially licensed by both Hasbor and Takara is canon! On top of that, you are the one who brought up Starscream being female in France, which, by the way, I highly doubt. Regardless, It still doesn't matter. We are not just discussing US and UK G1. We are talking the entirety of TransFormers lore. Not US TF lore, Not UK TF lore, Not Japanese TF lore, Not French TF lore. All TransFormers lore. By that standard, Everything officially licensed and produced by both Hasbro and Takara is 100% relevant. Deal with it, accept it or leave the discussion. And, if you can't be civil, also please leave the discussion. This is suposed to be a friendy debate. IF you cannot do so, bow out now.
As for why do we need to apply real life laws to science fiction? somple. Without them, suspension of disbelif is destroyed. Any story, no matter how fantastic has to have some basis in reality. It has to follow at least most laws of physics. And those laws that are "stretched" have to be done in such a way as to appear believable. The laws governing what is and is not life is one law that is never "streched" All life, real, theoretical, or wholly imagined, is held up to those same seven criteria.
A little girl's doll in a "let's pretend" is not an issue.
Also, what I have presented is also based 100% on canon evidence. It is based upon fact, both real world and TF fact. It is based upon facts and observations of the various characters behaviors, and relationships in every single TF series and story. Not just one series, not just one continuity, not just one contry's contiuity. Every continuity. Ypou ar elimiting yourself to a single story line—US/UK G1. That is not the end-all-be-all of TF lore.
As fro TF:MtMtE, yes, it is a difinitive source. It is also completely relevant. If you had your way, we would only be discussing the US and UK Marvel comics and maybe the US cartoon. Guess what. That is not the entirety of TF canon. And I will no limit myself to just those sources because they are not the only sources relevant to this discussion. You have absolutely no authority to decide what is not canon. Only Hasbro and Takara have that authority. And, the fact that this site is an international website which caters to the entire TransFormers line, both US and Japanese, and has members from all around the world, you absolutely cannot discount any officially produced TF lore. All officially produced TF lore is appropriate to this discussion, and will not discount any of it simply because of your narrow-mindedness.
As for the TransFormers being machines? yes they are machines. so what! They are still life forms. Mechanical life forms. Robotic life forms. They are not Earth machines. They are living, breathing, eating life composed of mechanical, rather than organic, matter.
Air Commander Starscream wrote:Alright guys and gals lets get this topic back on track:babylon queen's original topic wrote:TRansformers are mostly boy toys but since they do have fembots .Shouldn't HAsbro have transformers for girls? They can have a line with only female transformers. Have actually a boy or two in the line even though they are really needed. The fembots don't need to compete or impress them to reproduce only to impress or companionship. They should have female leaders as well.
This thread is not here to argue about the reproductive style of Transformers. (Which if I recall in "Five Faces of the Darkside" shows the Transformers being CONSTRUCTED). Please lets get back to the original topic at hand.
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:See, this was exactly what I was talking about. You are deciding for yourself what can & cannot be suspended. How is life in a fantasy setting existing without meeting real-life criteria more unbeilevable to a giant robot being able to shrink down to the size of a handheld devce? The answer is it's not. You think it is, & therefore you are trying to dictate to everybody else what has to be believed, & what can be tossed aside. & the most hillarious part of all of this is....you're just a fan like the rest of us. You're not Hasbro, you're not Takara, You're not a cartoon writer, you're not Simon Furman....yet you're acting like you're calling the shots on what is accepted & what is ignored, & so therefore Transformers cannot just build more & be considered alive in a fantasy setting, they have to have sex,.....& all of this based on obscure comics/manga & real-life science that doesn't apply to fiction except because you say it does & you can't accept that in fiction, life can exist without meeting your precious criteria for real life.As for this being fiction and thus exempt from sicentific law goes, that is BS. All scienece fiction has to have a basis in science. IT has to meet certain scientific realities or it will fall apart. You cannot ignore everything. That is why it is called Sicence Fiction. Sou still need to keep that scientific basis grounded in reality. Some things you can "stretch" such as mass conversion and faster-than-light travel. But others cannot be messed with without destroying suspension of disbelief. What determines what is or is not life is not something that can really be messed with or overlooked. It is these criteria which are universal to every form of life, both known and unknown, both real and theoretical, and our only gauge to determine if what we discover on other worlds is life or not. That is why it cannot be overlooked. These seven criteria are all we have to determine if we are alone in the universe. That is why they cannot be ignored even in science fiction.
(from The Well of All Sparks, page 11 wrote:
Through its guardian, Alpha Trion, Primus maintained a vigil over his "children", but his direct link was severed when Cybertron was invaded by armies of a marauding alien race.
(from Quintessans, pagwe 52 wrote:
The extent of the Quintessan's involvement in the creation of the TransFormers race is still largely a matter of conjecture. Certainly, these cruel machinist intellects influenced the TranmsFormers early development, and perhaps even attacked and colonized Cybertron at one or more times in its past
.from Arcee page 25 wrote:Notable for her rare female styling and warrior status, Arcee tries hard to shrug off the strange gender-based bias of her peers. Strange because TransFormers are inherently non-gender-specific, and only some quirk of their timelost origins can account for the difference in her appearance and attitude
On the contrary, I have been nothing but civil. Despite the constant "yes it is" "no it isn't" nature of the discussion, it has yet to erupt into any sort of flame war, & I have no intention of having it do that...at least not on my end. & even then it's not entirely off topic. One thing Babylon Queen did mention was that they wouldn't need to have male figures in the line for reprodction, which started the whole debate. So it hasn't been so much that any of this is off topic as it has been focusing on a smaller section of the topic.ThunderThruster wrote:Air Commander Starscream wrote:Alright guys and gals lets get this topic back on track:babylon queen's original topic wrote:TRansformers are mostly boy toys but since they do have fembots .Shouldn't HAsbro have transformers for girls? They can have a line with only female transformers. Have actually a boy or two in the line even though they are really needed. The fembots don't need to compete or impress them to reproduce only to impress or companionship. They should have female leaders as well.
This thread is not here to argue about the reproductive style of Transformers. (Which if I recall in "Five Faces of the Darkside" shows the Transformers being CONSTRUCTED). Please lets get back to the original topic at hand.
no offence mods, but that was 11 pages ago, why hasnt this been shut down. To be quite honest, i'm sick of these guys being at each others throats. None of them has the slightest inclination of being cival with one another, or even opening their minds to the opposing arguments!
Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:C: a criteria for life, which I might add I pointed out earlier, though you blantly ignored, this may change with new discoveries...cause that's how science works(you know, at one point it was believed that the world was flat, & that Earth was the center of the universe, & more recently that dinosaurs were akin to lizards rather than birds).
E: Wheelie being called a child, which really tells us nothing other than he's young. it is more likely, giving g1's factory reproduction that he was a recent model, & his size is due to him being a minibot like Bumblebee & Brawn, especially since they never show him "grow up".
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
ThunderThruster wrote:Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:C: a criteria for life, which I might add I pointed out earlier, though you blantly ignored, this may change with new discoveries...cause that's how science works(you know, at one point it was believed that the world was flat, & that Earth was the center of the universe, & more recently that dinosaurs were akin to lizards rather than birds).
E: Wheelie being called a child, which really tells us nothing other than he's young. it is more likely, giving g1's factory reproduction that he was a recent model, & his size is due to him being a minibot like Bumblebee & Brawn, especially since they never show him "grow up".
2 points that are distinctly hard to argue against.
Yes the 7 criteria for life are the current marker by which life is defined, but as we learn more about life and the universe, they will undoubtedly evolve.
ok it could be argued that you'd never see brawn grow up, cause he got killed off in the movie, but i already thought that he was pretty old anyway, so as young as wheelie is suppossed to be, i do doubt that he'd 'grow up'.
apologise to Nemesis Cyberplex, i wasnt trying to singling anybody out, but at times this thread has become little more than a school yard brawl!
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
All you are doing here is drawing conclusions from very limited info. As I mentioned, they do not delve into their origins, so you cannot assume anything. Maybe the "children" are smaller newly built protoforms that the dinoforce adopted...maybe not. & I assure you, if you ever walk down a street & exclaim that wives are solely for procreation & everything else is superficial, you will be b*tchslapped so quickly your head would spin.Tramp wrote:Nemesis, Those Transformers built from Protoforms all emerge as adults, not as children. The examples given are of children, they are physical children, small in size, with a child's proportions, not adult proportions. The ones from Victory in particular, are chibis. You do know what a chibi is don't you?
These are the Decepticons' families. Wives, sisters, and children. What purpose do you think wives are for, or where do you think children come from? If TFs were organic there would be no question. Organic or not makes no dofference. The intended implication from the series itself and the introduction of the Decepticon families is that these women and children are literally the families of these Decepticons; that the children were born from the unions of the decepticons with their wives. In other words, sexual reproduction. That is what they are showing. and as for wheelie, considering the lifespans of TransFormers, it would take a significant length of time for Wheelie to grow up; much longer than a human would. On top of that, we only see one or two years of his development; three when you add in Headmasters. Of course we would not see him physically grow. He isn't a rabbit or other animal which reaches adulthood in a mater of a few weeks or months. More than likely, it takes centuries to mature. Wheelie is literally a child.
all irrelevant, as I was referring to Optimus's line reguarding that all of the Transformers, not Earth tech, were born from the Allspark.As for the movie and the Allspark, as has been stated by Robert Orci himself, the Allspark is not meant to be used directly to turn a non-living machine into TransFormer life. To do so results in a mindless killing machine. The Allspark is meant to be use to bring life to the planet and through the planet allow life to flourish. Prime intended to use the Allspark to revitalize the planet so that it could thrive once again and support life and the TransFormers could thrive as well. He never intended to use it on machines to make new TransFormers directly. That is not the purpose of the Allspark.
Once again...fiction. I'm not going through this again, since you can't seem to accept that there is a difference between fiction & reality.As for the criteria of life, no, it is not likely to change. Everything on that list is essential for the survival of a life form or the species. Of all of the criteria, the ability to procreate is of utmost importance because without it, the species cannot continue past the current generation. There is not a single example of a species which cannot reproduce becasue any that did would die out. That makes autopoietic reproduction absolutely essential.
superficial meaning aside from companionship, nothing will come of either one...besides, everybody knows that while Hot Rod & Springer was duking it out, Arcee was giving Daniel head.As for Arcee, Hot Rod, and Springer, no, that is not superficial. Arcee's Bio in both MtMtE #1, and her movie bio from the Marvel Universe handbook confirms this, and is clearly demonstrated in the comics. It has also been specifically stated by the voice actress who played Arcee that theire was romantic interest between Hot Rod and Arcee and also between Springer and Arcee. The love triangle plot is there and confirmed in both print and the cartoons and by the voice actress herself. There is no "nudge, nudge, wink, wink,"
Right there is no evidence, only drawing conclusions that are probably not there. You make my point perfectly here. NextThird, the only "concrete" evidence that you would likely accept is actually seeing them engaged in the act, and that wil never be sen because it isn't appropriate for children. Therfore you have to look at the evidence we do have. We have the fact that in the ancient past, Cybertron had both sexes, Arcee's Ultimate Guide bio confirms this stating her appearance is from the timelost past. Cybertron was invaded in the ancient past by the Quintessans at least twice, the first resulting in the transFormers being cut off from their creator, and the second resulting in the removal of every last female leaving the TransFormers an essentially genderless race.
what other purpose is there? companionship, public relations with other alien life forms....once again, something that if you walked down the street & mnetioned that women are simply for precreation, you would get slapped for, at least.What other purpose besides reproduction is there for genders, courtship, and marriage? There is none. The only purpose they serve is to facilitate reproduction. The pasages from the Ultimate Guide confirmn that female TransFormers were plentiful in Cybertron's past, but that they completely disappeared millions of years prior to the modern era. This is confirmed by all three passages from the guide I posted. They were all taken by the Quintessans, leaving an essentially genderless society. A society of all males reliant on artifical means to continue the species.
The "other potential" refered to in MtMtE #8 are means that do not require protoforms. Thus, they do not require the Matrix or Vector Sigma, both of which bring protoforms to life. Also, according to the Ultimate guide, the Matrix is not limitless. It's power cannot be used indefinately. That means that use of it would need to be done sparingly. That certainly does not sound like an optimal way to keep the species going.
I was referring to preference of the writers, not preference of the TFs themselves. TFs needing females for any reason is simply writer preference.Being male or female is not a personal preference of the TransFormer, just as we do not choose what sex we are. They are born or created that way. It isn't choice.
you're right, there is no real reason why they couldn't. But on the contrary, there is also no real reason why they should be capable of it either. But using your own argument, I would say it would be human hubris to assume that life is only possible through the same reproduction processes organic life is capable of, specifically in a way that meets your precious criteria, such as sexual reproduction.The only reason why you can't accept the possibility of transFormers being capable of sexual reproduction is because they are mechanical life forms. Once again, so what!. They are still living beings. There is no real reason why they shouldn't be capable of it. their being mechanical is not a reason. It is actually, the ultimate in human huberous to assume that only organic life could possibly reproduce through natural means such as sexual reproduction.
Damolisher wrote:Tramp, get the picture, OK? You are wrong. Your laws are wrong. I can't believe you don't know what the hell a machine is. LOOK AT ANY INTERNAL DIAGRAM OF A TRANSFORMER, AND YOU WILL SEE NO SEXUAL ORGANS AT ALL! And don't tell me " It'z 4 CHilRnZ! My pissy single weak defence protecting my brainless crappy argument of 7 laws that only apply to real life will save me! They wouldn't show sex organs in a kids product!" because here's the thing: Why wouldn't they? If Transformers did have sex organs, they'd have at least verified it in the Ultimate guide by FLAT OUT STATING TRANSFORMERS CAN HAVE SEX. BUT THEY CAN'T! AND WHY CAN THEY NOT HAVE SEX?! THEY'RE F*CKING ROBOTS!
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
I concurr.ThunderThruster wrote:Damolisher wrote:Tramp, get the picture, OK? You are wrong. Your laws are wrong. I can't believe you don't know what the hell a machine is. LOOK AT ANY INTERNAL DIAGRAM OF A TRANSFORMER, AND YOU WILL SEE NO SEXUAL ORGANS AT ALL! And don't tell me " It'z 4 CHilRnZ! My pissy single weak defence protecting my brainless crappy argument of 7 laws that only apply to real life will save me! They wouldn't show sex organs in a kids product!" because here's the thing: Why wouldn't they? If Transformers did have sex organs, they'd have at least verified it in the Ultimate guide by FLAT OUT STATING TRANSFORMERS CAN HAVE SEX. BUT THEY CAN'T! AND WHY CAN THEY NOT HAVE SEX?! THEY'RE F*CKING ROBOTS!
Actually he's not wrong, he's just not right either!
Damolisher wrote:So, what you're saying is, he's more confused than an emo kid?
Tekka wrote:What she doesn't realize is that Springer actually loves Rodimus.
Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:All you are doing here is drawing conclusions from very limited info. As I mentioned, they do not delve into their origins, so you cannot assume anything. Maybe the "children" are smaller newly built protoforms that the dinoforce adopted...maybe not. & I assure you, if you ever walk down a street & exclaim that wives are solely for procreation & everything else is superficial, you will be b*tchslapped so quickly your head would spin.Tramp wrote:Nemesis, Those Transformers built from Protoforms all emerge as adults, not as children. The examples given are of children, they are physical children, small in size, with a child's proportions, not adult proportions. The ones from Victory in particular, are chibis. You do know what a chibi is don't you?
These are the Decepticons' families. Wives, sisters, and children. What purpose do you think wives are for, or where do you think children come from? If TFs were organic there would be no question. Organic or not makes no dofference. The intended implication from the series itself and the introduction of the Decepticon families is that these women and children are literally the families of these Decepticons; that the children were born from the unions of the decepticons with their wives. In other words, sexual reproduction. That is what they are showing. and as for wheelie, considering the lifespans of TransFormers, it would take a significant length of time for Wheelie to grow up; much longer than a human would. On top of that, we only see one or two years of his development; three when you add in Headmasters. Of course we would not see him physically grow. He isn't a rabbit or other animal which reaches adulthood in a mater of a few weeks or months. More than likely, it takes centuries to mature. Wheelie is literally a child.
all irrelevant, as I was referring to Optimus's line reguarding that all of the Transformers, not Earth tech, were born from the Allspark.As for the movie and the Allspark, as has been stated by Robert Orci himself, the Allspark is not meant to be used directly to turn a non-living machine into TransFormer life. To do so results in a mindless killing machine. The Allspark is meant to be use to bring life to the planet and through the planet allow life to flourish. Prime intended to use the Allspark to revitalize the planet so that it could thrive once again and support life and the TransFormers could thrive as well. He never intended to use it on machines to make new TransFormers directly. That is not the purpose of the Allspark.
nice try, though. well, not really.
Once again...fiction. I'm not going through this again, since you can't seem to accept that there is a difference between fiction & reality.As for the criteria of life, no, it is not likely to change. Everything on that list is essential for the survival of a life form or the species. Of all of the criteria, the ability to procreate is of utmost importance because without it, the species cannot continue past the current generation. There is not a single example of a species which cannot reproduce becasue any that did would die out. That makes autopoietic reproduction absolutely essential.
superficial meaning aside from companionship, nothing will come of either one...besides, everybody knows that while Hot Rod & Springer was duking it out, Arcee was giving Daniel head.As for Arcee, Hot Rod, and Springer, no, that is not superficial. Arcee's Bio in both MtMtE #1, and her movie bio from the Marvel Universe handbook confirms this, and is clearly demonstrated in the comics. It has also been specifically stated by the voice actress who played Arcee that theire was romantic interest between Hot Rod and Arcee and also between Springer and Arcee. The love triangle plot is there and confirmed in both print and the cartoons and by the voice actress herself. There is no "nudge, nudge, wink, wink,"
Right there is no evidence, only drawing conclusions that are probably not there. You make my point perfectly here. Next[/quote] The are there. You simply choose to ignore them because you can't look past them being robotic. There is not other conclusion to be drawn.Third, the only "concrete" evidence that you would likely accept is actually seeing them engaged in the act, and that wil never be sen because it isn't appropriate for children. Therfore you have to look at the evidence we do have. We have the fact that in the ancient past, Cybertron had both sexes, Arcee's Ultimate Guide bio confirms this stating her appearance is from the timelost past. Cybertron was invaded in the ancient past by the Quintessans at least twice, the first resulting in the transFormers being cut off from their creator, and the second resulting in the removal of every last female leaving the TransFormers an essentially genderless race.
what other purpose is there? companionship, public relations with other alien life forms....once again, something that if you walked down the street & mnetioned that women are simply for precreation, you would get slapped for, at least.What other purpose besides reproduction is there for genders, courtship, and marriage? There is none. The only purpose they serve is to facilitate reproduction. The pasages from the Ultimate Guide confirmn that female TransFormers were plentiful in Cybertron's past, but that they completely disappeared millions of years prior to the modern era. This is confirmed by all three passages from the guide I posted. They were all taken by the Quintessans, leaving an essentially genderless society. A society of all males reliant on artifical means to continue the species.
The "other potential" refered to in MtMtE #8 are means that do not require protoforms. Thus, they do not require the Matrix or Vector Sigma, both of which bring protoforms to life. Also, according to the Ultimate guide, the Matrix is not limitless. It's power cannot be used indefinately. That means that use of it would need to be done sparingly. That certainly does not sound like an optimal way to keep the species going.
I was referring to preference of the writers, not preference of the TFs themselves. TFs needing females for any reason is simply writer preference.Being male or female is not a personal preference of the TransFormer, just as we do not choose what sex we are. They are born or created that way. It isn't choice.
you're right, there is no real reason why they couldn't. But on the contrary, there is also no real reason why they should be capable of it either. But using your own argument, I would say it would be human hubris to assume that life is only possible through the same reproduction processes organic life is capable of, specifically sexual reproduction.[/quote]The only reason why you can't accept the possibility of transFormers being capable of sexual reproduction is because they are mechanical life forms. Once again, so what!. They are still living beings. There is no real reason why they shouldn't be capable of it. their being mechanical is not a reason. It is actually, the ultimate in human huberous to assume that only organic life could possibly reproduce through natural means such as sexual reproduction.
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