The Energon Pub

Please. Please, please please please don't have a go at me over this thread. I just want to post my honest opinion as a TF fan, who yeah, wasn't a massive fan of the whole beast wars era, but gave armada and cybertron etc a go, plus the old G2 stuff, which i welcomed cause it was new TF stuff. Beast wars occurred during my 'sabatical'. Heh.

All i really wanna know though, and reading through all of the posts in all other forums, DO you REALLY like this movie?

I mean, i'm 28 now, and probably a bona fide geek, and i couldn't wait to see my beloved bots on the screen. I hated the designs. I hated the stuff that was coming out about the script. But, i still went in with an open (soooooooo full of excitement) mind. By the time i left however, i just had this bitter taste in my mouth.

Before you all savage me for being a Gee-oner, yes i am, and i'm proud of it. I'm a simple guy, from a simple time, who most probably, loves simple things (ow! girlfriend punch!).

My problem is this. Op - BB - Ratchet - Jazz et al, they've all gone through loads of changes, but they've all had character. This movie seemed to bypass that.

I left feeling like transformers were either goofy comedy value idiots, or bug faced cannon fodder.

I LOVE Transformers, and just to see them on screen in any kinda way is great, but can any of you HONESTLY say that you could distinguish who was fighting who?

And yeah, i know the film is targetted as the mass idiot market, but really, what was the point of the hackers etc?

I just feel really upset that a movie couldn't be made about our pasion, our bots, that would make them "real" personality wise. A bit of banter here and there, and not just make them into stereotypes - anyone who thinks Jazz brakedancing and saying "yo my bitches" is either clever or funny needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Likewise with anyone who can associate themselves with Bay's need for piss jokes - BB's urination scene was a disgrace. That kind of humour died out years ago with American Pie.

I'm not going to go on and on - i could, trust me (Frenzy's apparent invisibility shield) - i just hope that there might be some other TF fans out there that might back me up on this, and make me feel like i'm not alone on this point.

So with that, i am going to ask that, PLEASE!!!! Don't be nasty on your replies - I am only stating an opinion. I've read some really bad replies to some honest points on here, and it's made me quite ashamed.

Thanks in advice for all your honest and respectful replies - heh - let the flaming commence!!!!!!!

Take care folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um... I liked it. It was a lot of fun.

To answer your main question: Yes.

it wasn't "technically good" by many means, but it was an extremely entertaining seat filler of a movie. Just a great all around action flick
so yes, I liked it

I loved the movie (I'm a huge fan of Beast Wars whcih is what i played with when i was little and a G1 fan)

The movie was fun which is what it is all about, it brings back memories

my familiy loved it and they have had little to no contact with tfs other than the fact that i am i tf fan and those were birthday and christmas gifts for me some years back (i mean my step-dad played with tfs when he was little and that was about it)

ILM's work is great, but apart from that I felt as if it managed to limbo under my already incredibly low expectations. I didn't buy my own ticket, a friend of mine paid for me, and I still felt cheated. At plenty of points it felt like one of those days back in high-school where one of the slower students would demonstrate just how little they understood things like history, physics, computers, etc. by asking or stating something incomprehensibly stupid and I didn't know know whether to laugh or cry. At other points it was like watching a WB sitcom or some other incredibly unfunny comedy because your significant other wants to, and you suddenly realize you're going to have to leave her. During the decent parts I was on the edge of my seat, praying that the camera would steady out and remain unzoomed or at the same angle for more than 15 seconds.

The answer is:

No.


I loved it at the time because it was awesome in its spectacle, and for once it was good spectacle, not over the top Lord of the Rings style baseball bat to the head forced epic spectacle. (I like LotR movies, but the style has been overdone ever since.) This time around, the spectacle was huge because the content was.


I loved the designs. I'm going into CG and if you don't appreciate these designs, you don't understand how they were made. Never say "it's just computers" again.

But the "humor" was lame, aside from a few momwnts, none of which included "peeing", mountain dew bots, or nokia phones with machine gun penises.

I defended human focus in the movie until I saw how many characters were pointless and stupid. I had a feeling the TF's would be background fodder.

But I had a great time, and loved the action. But that's because I knew I had to dumb my expectations way down. Is it a tragedy that I had to do that? Maybe, but I still had fun at the movie.

But did I go back? Not yet. Will I buy the DVD? Not unless it's extended and made better by the extension. Will I see the sequel? Of course.

In a few years, those special effects will be old. Then what will we have?

I'm surprised so many people are geniunely upset. It's Hollywood people. What did you expect? We got a TF movie for non TF fans because it had to be. How else would it make money?

I LOVE Transformers, and just to see them on screen in any kinda way is great, but can any of you HONESTLY say that you could distinguish who was fighting who?

I swear to God I had Eddie Gordo flashbacks from Tekken while watching many scenes in the movie...It seems to me like they just did a composite of Tiger (Gordo) fighting and made many of the TFs do that...

For those who don't know, Eddie Gordo is a popular character from the Tekken video game series whose techniques consist of a bevy of random flips and foot movements...ALot of the TFs just flipped around randomly in this style making it hard to see who was fighting who as you said (especially the final fight)...Add Bay's camera angles and yeah, hard to appreciate the fighting IMHO...

It was a good movie, but it could have been leaps and bounds better. I really wish it was more like the '86 movie. The designs could definitely have been better, and some of the jokes weren't funny. All that having been said it was good, but not fantastic like the '86 movie.

Phoenix_306 wrote:All i really wanna know though, and reading through all of the posts in all other forums, DO you REALLY like this movie?

Yes. Yes I do.

And i'm 30 years old and grew up with G1.

I was a great movie and anyone could understand the plot. allspark -important, megatron-bad dude, optimus- no die, Decepticons -Inferior, autobots-superior, and so on.

If you don't get the purpose of camera close-ups and cuts, then of course the movie'll seem badly shot. Now, if you think about how the movie switched from a robot perspective as in the cartoons to human perspective to better identify with the audience, the camera perspective shifts to show that. It shows exactly how we'd see them-- the robots fill up our field of vision, so we only see parts of them in action, and we are left to feel like confused ants before this large scale battle of monstrous machines.

Please. Please, please please please don't have a go at me over this thread. I just want to post my honest opinion as a TF fan, who yeah, wasn't a massive fan of the whole beast wars era, but gave armada and cybertron etc a go, plus the old G2 stuff, which i welcomed cause it was new TF stuff. Beast wars occurred during my 'sabatical'. Heh.

That's one thing with which I disagree. Beast Wars was a phenomenal series that was extremely faithful to the TF universe, all while carving its own identity into that same universe.

I mean, i'm 28 now, and probably a bona fide geek, and i couldn't wait to see my beloved bots on the screen. I hated the designs. I hated the stuff that was coming out about the script. But, i still went in with an open (soooooooo full of excitement) mind. By the time i left however, i just had this bitter taste in my mouth.

I think you simply anticipated a live action G1, and something tells me that you simply wanted to hate it because it wasn't an exact replica of G1. I, for one, loved the designs because they were real. They had realistic designs, movement, and placement. Rather than in the cartoon where they pop-out, these robots actually transformed.

My problem is this. Op - BB - Ratchet - Jazz et al, they've all gone through loads of changes, but they've all had character. This movie seemed to bypass that.

It's not really accurate to compare the personality of a TV series character to that of a movie incarnation. While it isn't beyond the possiblity of a film to contain great character, we're talking about a twelve-to-one ratio of time that can be spent in character development.

I LOVE Transformers, and just to see them on screen in any kinda way is great, but can any of you HONESTLY say that you could distinguish who was fighting who?

I can tell you exactly who was fighting who. I can point out which Autobot landed where. I can tell you which Decepticons lived and died.

I just feel really upset that a movie couldn't be made about our pasion, our bots, that would make them "real" personality wise. A bit of banter here and there, and not just make them into stereotypes - anyone who thinks Jazz brakedancing and saying "yo my bitches" is either clever or funny needs to take a serious look at themselves.

You just crossed the "opinion" line there, pal. You're implying that something you didn't like is something that's unanimously poor in taste. You didn't think the line was clever or funny? Fine. But DO NOT question my--or anyone else's--judgment just to tote your own.

I will agree, however, that the jokes and gags were taken too far (the urination and masturbation being the worst) and Megan Fox was an annoying addition to the film. She wasn't "cast" for being a "good actress", she was pinned-up onscreen just cause she was hot. In that regard, the movie failed.

But other than that, I LOVED the movie, and declare it the best film of 2007.

DesalationReborn wrote:If you don't get the purpose of camera close-ups and cuts, then of course the movie'll seem badly shot. Now, if you think about how the movie switched from a robot perspective as in the cartoons to human perspective to better identify with the audience, the camera perspective shifts to show that. It shows exactly how we'd see them-- the robots fill up our field of vision, so we only see parts of them in action, and we are left to feel like confused ants before this large scale battle of monstrous machines.

Amen, brother!

I heart Frenzy. He acts like me.

AM I A SPAZ? YES!

Rocky87 wrote:

Please. Please, please please please don't have a go at me over this thread. I just want to post my honest opinion as a TF fan, who yeah, wasn't a massive fan of the whole beast wars era, but gave armada and cybertron etc a go, plus the old G2 stuff, which i welcomed cause it was new TF stuff. Beast wars occurred during my 'sabatical'. Heh.

That's one thing with which I disagree. Beast Wars was a phenomenal series that was extremely faithful to the TF universe, all while carving its own identity into that same universe.

I mean, i'm 28 now, and probably a bona fide geek, and i couldn't wait to see my beloved bots on the screen. I hated the designs. I hated the stuff that was coming out about the script. But, i still went in with an open (soooooooo full of excitement) mind. By the time i left however, i just had this bitter taste in my mouth.

I think you simply anticipated a live action G1, and something tells me that you simply wanted to hate it because it wasn't an exact replica of G1. I, for one, loved the designs because they were real. They had realistic designs, movement, and placement. Rather than in the cartoon where they pop-out, these robots actually transformed.

My problem is this. Op - BB - Ratchet - Jazz et al, they've all gone through loads of changes, but they've all had character. This movie seemed to bypass that.

It's not really accurate to compare the personality of a TV series character to that of a movie incarnation. While it isn't beyond the possiblity of a film to contain great character, we're talking about a twelve-to-one ratio of time that can be spent in character development.

I LOVE Transformers, and just to see them on screen in any kinda way is great, but can any of you HONESTLY say that you could distinguish who was fighting who?

I can tell you exactly who was fighting who. I can point out which Autobot landed where. I can tell you which Decepticons lived and died.

I just feel really upset that a movie couldn't be made about our pasion, our bots, that would make them "real" personality wise. A bit of banter here and there, and not just make them into stereotypes - anyone who thinks Jazz brakedancing and saying "yo my bitches" is either clever or funny needs to take a serious look at themselves.

You just crossed the "opinion" line there, pal. You're implying that something you didn't like is something that's unanimously poor in taste. You didn't think the line was clever or funny? Fine. But DO NOT question my--or anyone else's--judgment just to tote your own.

I will agree, however, that the jokes and gags were taken too far (the ion and ion being the worst) and Megan Fox was an annoying addition to the film. She wasn't "cast" for being a "good actress", she was pinned-up onscreen just cause she was hot. In that regard, the movie failed.

But other than that, I LOVED the movie, and declare it the best film of 2007.

Very Nice post Rocky!!!

DesalationReborn wrote:If you don't get the purpose of camera close-ups and cuts, then of course the movie'll seem badly shot. Now, if you think about how the movie switched from a robot perspective as in the cartoons to human perspective to better identify with the audience, the camera perspective shifts to show that. It shows exactly how we'd see them-- the robots fill up our field of vision, so we only see parts of them in action, and we are left to feel like confused ants before this large scale battle of monstrous machines.

If that was the purpose I think it failed. If he wanted to show how enormous they are from a human perspective he could have used shots angled-up with heavy forshortening, lots of size references, and a fixed long-range perspective instead of the perspective of someone 10-feet tall running alongside and watching from a few feet away. It was like being an extremely nearsighted referee in a wrestling match.

There is a difference between a good action movie and a good story. This movie I think we can all agree didn't have the greatest of stories. It was trite and poorly fleshed out. The characters were a bit shallow. They could have done things better. But I don't really think they could have done anything differently without doing a completely different story.

Was it a good action movie? Yea. It was an enjoyable 2.5 hour thrill ride. Lots of big explosions transforming giant robots and so forth. Plenty of Eye candy. But if it were a book it would be one of the worst I ever read. Good movie poorly told story.

I think the camera angles captured things PERFECTLY. That's what it's like to be in a war! Things happen fast, they're jumbled and disjointed and crazy...

And I think Sam came off perfectly. He behaved EXACTLY as a lovestruck somewhat geeky teenage boy would. The 'open mouth, insert foot' thing was dead on.

Sam's parents were perfect too. I loved that bit. Things DO get kinda awkward when you're that age... And the giant robots sure don't help things!

In short, where you guys see a crap-fest, I see a really really good movie. If it makes ME write fanfiction despite my carpal tunnel, that's saying something!

wingdarkness wrote:

I LOVE Transformers, and just to see them on screen in any kinda way is great, but can any of you HONESTLY say that you could distinguish who was fighting who?

I swear to God I had Eddie Gordo flashbacks from Tekken while watching many scenes in the movie...It seems to me like they just did a composite of Tiger (Gordo) fighting and made many of the TFs do that...

For those who don't know, Eddie Gordo is a popular character from the Tekken video game series whose techniques consist of a bevy of random flips and foot movements...ALot of the TFs just flipped around randomly in this style making it hard to see who was fighting who as you said (especially the final fight)...Add Bay's camera angles and yeah, hard to appreciate the fighting IMHO...

The fighting style that you mention is capoeira. It's a bit more complex than random flips though . Not flamin' ya, just don't know if you knew the name, the last bit there was merely humor.

As far as the movie being good, for me, yes it was. It was far from perfect, especially in the majority of the TFs characterization department, but I enjoyed it. The movie made me feel like a kid again, like I was watching those old G1 episodes on a saturday morning when I was 5 and 6 and so on. As far as a starting point for a series of films goes, I think it was handled pretty good. Hopefully for a sequel we get better characteriztion, and a better look at Cybertron and the starts of the war.

For the love of God, just because they have the same names doesn't mean they were ment to be exact 100% replicas of their 20 year old selves, for some they borrowed heavily, aspects of their old character, which by the way, they did it for US, not for the general public, who don't give a crap about what they were like 20 years ago, the writers maybe just thought "Hey, we liked these aspects of the characters 20 yaers ago, maybe we should work them into their current characters?".

I love how everyone gets all technical and historical just because they have the same fracking names.

Oh, and yes, some of the camera work sucked, but there are many reasons for this, some being - It's Michael Bay, i guess it's his *style*, and another, it's cheaper possibly to "film" some mishmashed cgi scenes.

Of course we'd all love wide angled fighting scenes all the time, and wide angled transformations (you know when you saw 4 bots transform you got goosebumps, bee looked amazing, watch those legs and arms fold in, that's a fracking transformer, watch jazz too!)

AbsumZer0 wrote:

DesalationReborn wrote:If you don't get the purpose of camera close-ups and cuts, then of course the movie'll seem badly shot. Now, if you think about how the movie switched from a robot perspective as in the cartoons to human perspective to better identify with the audience, the camera perspective shifts to show that. It shows exactly how we'd see them-- the robots fill up our field of vision, so we only see parts of them in action, and we are left to feel like confused ants before this large scale battle of monstrous machines.

If that was the purpose I think it failed. If he wanted to show how enormous they are from a human perspective he could have used shots angled-up with heavy forshortening, lots of size references, and a fixed long-range perspective instead of the perspective of someone 10-feet tall running alongside and watching from a few feet away. It was like being an extremely nearsighted referee in a wrestling match.

Note that there were quite a few wide and pan-out shots-- the highway, the desert, Quatar, the dam, Sam's house-- just not in the city streets, where it's fighting in cramped quarters and any chances of a wide view without a view on the skyline is blocked.

DesalationReborn wrote:
Note that there were quite a few wide and pan-out shots-- the highway, the desert, Quatar, the dam, Sam's house-- just not in the city streets, where it's fighting in cramped quarters and any chances of a wide view without a view on the skyline is blocked.

I agree, I think sam's house was a perfect scene. Everyone can relate to a house, a front yard and a garage door, now you see robots from the outside hanging out around it, you can understand their size a lot better, I think. Prime's head in the window was great.

DesalationReborn
Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:14 pm

If you don't get the purpose of camera close-ups and cuts, then of course the movie'll seem badly shot. Now, if you think about how the movie switched from a robot perspective as in the cartoons to human perspective to better identify with the audience, the camera perspective shifts to show that. It shows exactly how we'd see them-- the robots fill up our field of vision, so we only see parts of them in action, and we are left to feel like confused ants before this large scale battle of monstrous machines.

I understand the thinking behind what you're saying, but all the slo-mo Matrix spinning, blurry movement and stuff also left me feeling like the "human" perspectives" were used to cheat on animation processing and time.

The insult to injury on that notion was Jazz's death feeling no more dramatic or thought out (or long) as a kid going, "K-POW!" and mashing two action figures together. I literally blinked ( I kid you not, the "action"... it WAS putting me to sleep) and then i'm like, "Wait, WHAT? That was the scene from the script where Jazz died?!?"

No, i didn't think this movie was ALL that good or good at all.

And likely to my dying day, I will be confounded by the sheer amount of people who came back liking it.
Not from a "that's not G1" perspective, but a "wow, that movie was made TERRIBLY" one.

(Bad language ahead)
The poster "HNB" (scroll down) on this videogaming site sums up my feelings a bit more in detail:
http://www.n-philes.com/forums/showthre ... ge=2&pp=20

I loved the movie and yes, I thought it was that good.

It was one of the most entertaining movies I've seen in a long time, and definitely the most fun I had at the movies. No joke.

It was simply enjoyable as a film on it's own, then you throw in the TransFormers and it was a bonafide winner in my book.

Perfect? No. No movie, nothing on this planet is perfect. And expecting it to go up against perfection is not only dumb (because it's impossible), it's a tad insane. (also, because it's impossible.)

If you must compare it to G1, I have to say, it mopped the floor up with G1. Compared to this movie, it's pure rubbish and makes you want bleach for the brain.